Australian power prices go insane

[Boat + 1,323]

On 7/16/2022 at 10:35 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Boat open your eye's, your frustration lies in one world order. Australia would not have a energy crisis if the country put Australia first. You might ask yourself as to why a governing body would allow it's citizenship to be jeopardized. Do a deep dive into the WTO and it's functioning...mostly importantly sovereign countries losing there sovereign rights. The Busch administration actually had to go back into after it was written and signed to rewrite it due to the fact it egregiously violated the US court system.

You speak to environmental/ social justice quite often. You might take the time to research the history of automotive imports into the US. Japan and Germany flourished while US auto workers were decimated. I have no qualms saying specifically the Black community...Detroit is a glaring example and today that community is in ruin.

It only gets worse, GM you might know it as a car company, it really is a parts manufacturer... The World's Largest.. by far..or was. To make these parts took precision machining...now here's the rub. Those lathes/machines  were  made by hand crafted machine's that enabled precision lathes to be made  a hundred years of engineering and perfection machining  They could build parts that allowed the US to build a infrastructure second to none...Today China has those machines and the tech...they can build anything the US can. China virtually bought AC delco...and the machines that made AC delco. And now Tesla has built factories in China, tech that was bought and paid for by US citizens...That tech is now China's.

All of these tradgies are a result of one world order, corporate order. Question would Germany have the need for such large energy needs without auto manufacturing? Take a look at how many autos Germany exports..it's stunning...As to China..almost overnight they will become the world's largest  auto industry..Brought to by GM or what was GM. 

The above tragedies are tearing the US democrat system apart, and enabling socialist and communist systems across the globe...and world body is beginning to flounder badly...Communism along with Socialism are once again tearing it apart.

To this thread, Australia is punishing it's citizenship,  Only to maintain this world order, and a socialist green ideology...very badly conceived and implemented.

And more...interwoven world society is very ill advised.

The US’s selfish war on inflation will tip the world into recession

The US’s selfish war on inflation will tip the world into recession

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/16/the-uss-selfish-war-on-inflation-will-tip-the-world-into-recession

We may look at the world differenty. Brain power/distributed manufacturing/distributed energy etc gives any part of the world the ability to make a product. The big advantage used to be FF. Renewables and batteries will change that FF domination. Brain power used to reside in larger concentrations in developed countries. After WWII the trend of educating the population instead of just the elites creates the potential of a a capable workforce anywhere. The trends are changing the world, not the idiot politicians. They start wars, create bad policy and are more concerned about individual power than productivity. Just ask Putin. Ask Trump. Lol you act like growth is bad. I say if you set parameters for controlled growth you need not destroy the air and water. Countries can be separate and further share knowledge to harness distributed energy, science, education and research and never leave their country.  All those car plants from foreigners just moved from Detroit to around the US. Supply chains eventually become more efficient by moving, that and tax breaks by hosting states. 

[specinho + 467]

On 7/18/2022 at 8:16 AM, markslawson said:

I'm in a brick house.. why wood? But never mind.. 

thought mixed wooden and brick houses are popular in Australia..... when part of the house gets old enough, one removes the wood and chucks into the fire place for warmth, while reconstructing whatever and however deemed necessary?  '-' Would burning bricks get more heat out of the same act? Or, have i misunderstood what you were trying to say when you mentioned your house is old enough and fire place..........? 'n'

Edited July 21, 2022 by specinho

[specinho + 467]

On 7/20/2022 at 9:49 PM, Wombat One said:

Not entirely wrong. We do not yet have an over-dependence on wind and solar but that is on it's way. Half of the coal we export is coking coal, far too valuable to be wasted in a thermal power station, but even thermal coal is fetching 100's of dollars/tonne right now. We will eventually replace the revenue from coal and LNG with green Hydrogen and ammonia exports but the stupid greenies are incapable of doing the math. They simply cannot understand how a practical transition occurs and that if our coal, oil & gas become stranded assets, then the Chinese will attempt to come and steal them before long. They simply don't understand how much energy the world consumes and how desperate some countries are to secure their supplies. They live in La La land and their "green lawfare" is mainly funded by the Sierra Club of the USA. The Aboriginals also block a lot of mines and other development. They all think they are "saving the planet" but all they are doing is transferring our potential exports to those with weaker environmental standards and questionable labour practices. Every time they block an Australian coal mine, that is another one that opens in Indonesia that requires the destruction of more rainforest. That is how stupid the greenies are. And if Australia does not go nuclear, we are screwed. But to answer your question, there is no domestic shortage of coal or gas, it is just that the socialists here think they should be able to consume it for free. They argue that "it belongs to the people" or that "it should be very heavily taxed" because our mining, oil and gas, plus coal companies are majority foreign owned and "all the profits go to foreigners". Meanwhile, we have the world's 4th largest pension savings despite being only the 15th largest economy on the planet. So ya gotta ask the question: Why the f*** do our pension funds not invest heavily in our resource companies? Simple, due to the highly cyclical "boom/bust" nature of the industry. BHP may be the world's largest mining company, and has doubled production and received record prices for iron ore in the last decade, but the share price is still lower than 15 years ago. Same with our oil & gas companies. Indeed, the entire value of the Aussie share market has not budged in 15 years. Every time we start a new company that succeeds, it immediately is allowed to be swallowed up by an international competitor. And half our farmland is foreign-owned. So yes, you are correct. We have not prioritised our own people. We are not allowed to. The USA and Europe will not allow that. For example, the European Competition Commission blocked the merger of BHP with Rio Tinto. I could list hundreds of examples but you get the idea. Australia has to play by "international rules" of which we have very little say in. We would be much better off without the WTO. It would allow us to bring back tariffs and hence our manufacturing industry.  Like the USA, our govt is close to bankruptcy, same as Europe too, household and corporate debt also at record levels, but then, you can look at all those shiny new cities in Asia and they are all on the verge of bankruptcy too? Whole world? Whether we get stagflation, hyperinflation, or deflation, things won't be pretty for any country before long IMHO. I can't think of any country that is acting in the interests of their citizens, can you? The Davos Globalist elite seem to be the only one's that get to vote on anything these days?

pardon my ignorant............. the bolded sentences might be dubious? e.g. Australia, according to a story teller, was started off by having outlaws from England........ and then....... gold rush received explorers from other countries........?

If this story is correct, then,  many people, despite have been residing in Australia for a long time, and may be having a second citizenship here, might still regard their old homeland as their place of origin or where they belong? These people might exclude those who were born there with single citizenship.

If so, by stating own people vs foreigners, we might be confused, if

a) foreigners are referring to those with dual or more citizenship or non aussies?

b) when they stay there, contribute there, helping local to grow in a hope one day they can reach up to their capability, do you still consider aussies deprived, instead of not yet reaching the bar of measurement?

 

Davos group might not necessary aware of the unintended consequences you mentioned. They just set the fire up and let the wind or weather take charge......... Although they can predict burning effect on some fire-prone things, they might not really know what, how much, how long and if firemen are / anyone is capable of putting the fire out. Or would it go out of hands etc.........

For things to change, one must be awaken, be away and not controlled by the herd thinking or manipulation....... More people are awakened, the effect would be more obvious......

[markslawson + 1,057]

7 hours ago, specinho said:

Would burning bricks get more heat out of the same act? Or, have i misunderstood what you were trying to say when you mentioned your house is old enough and fire place..........? 'n'

I just meant its got a fire place. When did houses stop having fire places? probably from the 1960s or so .. the house I'm in was built brick in 1950. Although there are plenty of timber houses around brick seems more common in Aus than America. Don't know why? Maybe Melbourne (where I live) has a clay sub soil, and there are major brown coal fields out to the east to provide energy to fire the clay but that's just a guess..  

[Ron Wagner + 706]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:49 AM, Wombat One said:

Not entirely wrong. We do not yet have an over-dependence on wind and solar but that is on it's way. Half of the coal we export is coking coal, far too valuable to be wasted in a thermal power station, but even thermal coal is fetching 100's of dollars/tonne right now. We will eventually replace the revenue from coal and LNG with green Hydrogen and ammonia exports but the stupid greenies are incapable of doing the math. They simply cannot understand how a practical transition occurs and that if our coal, oil & gas become stranded assets, then the Chinese will attempt to come and steal them before long. They simply don't understand how much energy the world consumes and how desperate some countries are to secure their supplies. They live in La La land and their "green lawfare" is mainly funded by the Sierra Club of the USA. The Aboriginals also block a lot of mines and other development. They all think they are "saving the planet" but all they are doing is transferring our potential exports to those with weaker environmental standards and questionable labour practices. Every time they block an Australian coal mine, that is another one that opens in Indonesia that requires the destruction of more rainforest. That is how stupid the greenies are. And if Australia does not go nuclear, we are screwed. But to answer your question, there is no domestic shortage of coal or gas, it is just that the socialists here think they should be able to consume it for free. They argue that "it belongs to the people" or that "it should be very heavily taxed" because our mining, oil and gas, plus coal companies are majority foreign owned and "all the profits go to foreigners". Meanwhile, we have the world's 4th largest pension savings despite being only the 15th largest economy on the planet. So ya gotta ask the question: Why the f*** do our pension funds not invest heavily in our resource companies? Simple, due to the highly cyclical "boom/bust" nature of the industry. BHP may be the world's largest mining company, and has doubled production and received record prices for iron ore in the last decade, but the share price is still lower than 15 years ago. Same with our oil & gas companies. Indeed, the entire value of the Aussie share market has not budged in 15 years. Every time we start a new company that succeeds, it immediately is allowed to be swallowed up by an international competitor. And half our farmland is foreign-owned. So yes, you are correct. We have not prioritised our own people. We are not allowed to. The USA and Europe will not allow that. For example, the European Competition Commission blocked the merger of BHP with Rio Tinto. I could list hundreds of examples but you get the idea. Australia has to play by "international rules" of which we have very little say in. We would be much better off without the WTO. It would allow us to bring back tariffs and hence our manufacturing industry.  Like the USA, our govt is close to bankruptcy, same as Europe too, household and corporate debt also at record levels, but then, you can look at all those shiny new cities in Asia and they are all on the verge of bankruptcy too? Whole world? Whether we get stagflation, hyperinflation, or deflation, things won't be pretty for any country before long IMHO. I can't think of any country that is acting in the interests of their citizens, can you? The Davos Globalist elite seem to be the only one's that get to vote on anything these days?

Very well put and thanks for the information on the problems Australia faces. It is very similar worldwide due to the elites of all kinds.

[ChangeMachine + 2]

On 7/14/2022 at 7:22 AM, Tom Nolan said:

The solution does not hinge on the current system of governments.  All of this crap...inflation, wars, energy crisis, climate change,...all of this has the agenda of controlling the populace, just like what happened during the Covid-19 Scamdemic.  Control of the populace is the objective of the current system. 

Their propaganda says we'll own nothing and be happy.  It looks more likely that we'll HAVE nothing (owned, rented or borrowed), including such luxuries as electricity, food and potable water.  We'll see how happy people are going forward.  So far so good!

[Boat + 1,323]

21 hours ago, markslawson said:

I just meant its got a fire place. When did houses stop having fire places? probably from the 1960s or so .. the house I'm in was built brick in 1950. Although there are plenty of timber houses around brick seems more common in Aus than America. Don't know why? Maybe Melbourne (where I live) has a clay sub soil, and there are major brown coal fields out to the east to provide energy to fire the clay but that's just a guess..  

Most people used to live in the country. Now most live in cities. Trees mostly live in the country and then that pesky air pollution when to many gather and burn stuff. 

[Boat + 1,323]

20 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Very well put and thanks for the information on the problems Australia faces. It is very similar worldwide due to the elites of all kinds.

9 hours ago, ChangeMachine said:

Their propaganda says we'll own nothing and be happy.  It looks more likely that we'll HAVE nothing (owned, rented or borrowed), including such luxuries as electricity, food and potable water.  We'll see how happy people are going forward.  So far so good!

That’s bs. I own my tv and looking to upgrade. You just buy shyt because you to lazy to do it yourself. You gripe about the freedom of choices. Russia owned the Ukraine and look how happy they are. 

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:23 AM, markslawson said:

Yep - or close enough - coal and coal plants have been demonised so no-one is building them in Aus. The plants we have are aging, so they tend to be offline a lot. Everyone's talking about renewables but, of course, they are simply no substitute. The Aus grid use to be dominated by big brown-coal plants with major brown coal deposits right next to the generator. the resulting power was cheap. No longer. Sigh!  

What?  Coal plants are not "always on" like the fossil cult professes?

The whole argument against renewable is they are intermittent, now you accept your fossil machines are worn out and obsolete and nobody will invest in them.

Must be tough being smarter than the rich investors and have them not listen to you....

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

Coal is dirty; coal is no longer cheap; coal plants are increasingly unreliable.

3 strikes you're out!

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

10 hours ago, ChangeMachine said:

Their propaganda says we'll own nothing and be happy.  It looks more likely that we'll HAVE nothing (owned, rented or borrowed), including such luxuries as electricity, food and potable water.  We'll see how happy people are going forward.  So far so good!

You have nothing. Do not confuse that with everyone having nothing. Perhaps your outdated views are why you have nothing?

Invest in the future, not the past.

[markslawson + 1,057]

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

What?  Coal plants are not "always on" like the fossil cult professes?

The whole argument against renewable is they are intermittent, now you accept your fossil machines are worn out and obsolete and nobody will invest in them.

Do you mean to say you actually regard that as some sort of counter argument to the use of coal plants? Before renewables there use to be a whole set of arcane rules about how much generating power a grid would have on stand-by at one time .. and how much could be turned on at 10 minutes or one-hour notice and so on. Breakdowns could accommodated within that framework, and there were fewer of them because every now and then new generators were built. This system of reserving does not happen with renewables, and new investors in conventional plants have been scared off. Hence the problem - grids are becoming considerable more unstable and power more expensive. We have to either accept that trade off or build more conventional plants - not make silly comments about how aging conventional plants sometimes do breakdown.   

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

1 hour ago, markslawson said:

 not make silly comments about how aging conventional plants sometimes do breakdown.   

Stop making silly comments that the wind doesn't always blow.  Stop saying that coal plants can always put out nameplate power. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by TailingsPond

[Leighton 0]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:46 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Yep, electricity prices are way up because of fossil fuel costs to generate. Good thing we have low cost renewables to move to.

A UK government auction has secured a record 11 gigawatts (GW) of new renewable energy capacity that will generate electricity four times more cheaply than current gas prices.

The projects are all due to start operating within the next five years up to 2026/27 and have agreed to generate electricity for an average price of £48 per megawatt hour (MWh) in today’s money. This is four times cheaper than the £196/MWh current cost of running gas-fired power stations.

Most of the new capacity – some 7GW – will be offshore wind. Notably, for the first time, these projects were cheaper than the 1.5GW of onshore wind or 2.2GW of solar.

This is how English fails man, they are clearly using exaggerated gas prices (as they are now) to justify these products. While also ignoring the simple fact that gas power was never cheap and was only ever a source or "turn on turn off" power supply. It's if anything, the exact opposite of renewables. So given these facts, the articles you are using to justify your argument are simply distorted. 

[markslawson + 1,057]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:32 PM, TailingsPond said:

Stop making silly comments that the wind doesn't always blow.  Stop saying that coal plants can always put out nameplate power. 

But Tailings Pond the wind doesn't always blow - this is recognised by almost everyone but you - and no on ever said that coal plants can always put out full power. Of course they can't. But if that's the best you can do then its time to wrap up the conversation and not read any further comments you might make. Leave it with you. .  

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 7/13/2022 at 7:49 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The solution is more renewables, batteries and green hydrogen. Burning more outrageously priced fuel would not solve anything.

We all agree on this and by 2100 this is how it will be. The problem is that you and your ilk want to shut down all non green power plants today and if half the world dies while we wait for green energy to make up the difference, that is alright with you. Like a typical liberal, you love mankind, but you can't stand people and you are willing to kill as many as it takes to get your way.

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

11 hours ago, markslawson said:

 and no one ever said that coal plants can always put out full power.

You must not read the forum.

People always harp on renewables because they are not "always on" like fossil fuels.  "Nameplate capacity" availability yada yada.

Fact is fossil plants fail to deliver plenty, but that is purposely ignored by the cult.

 

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

11 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

We all agree on this and by 2100 this is how it will be. The problem is that you and your ilk want to shut down all non green power plants today and if half the world dies while we wait for green energy to make up the difference, that is alright with you. Like a typical liberal, you love mankind, but you can't stand people and you are willing to kill as many as it takes to get your way.

Pollution already kills people. Global warming has the potential to kill near everyone.

You may not be correct in your assessment of death tolls on each side.

 

[Michael Sanches + 187]

One day, by 2100, we will have ample renewable energy production and storage. But, in order to fill the bank accounts of the greenies and the Elites, greenies demand 100 % changeover by artificial dates, no matter now many people suffer and die. But, people are refusing to die and dirty coal plants are being built and enlarged, as well as the people paying very high prices for energy while the greenies laugh at us. So, when you are choking on polluted air, thank a greenie.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

20 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

You must not read the forum.

People always harp on renewables because they are not "always on" like fossil fuels.  "Nameplate capacity" availability yada yada.

Fact is fossil plants fail to deliver plenty, but that is purposely ignored by the cult.

 

Inspection and maintenance intervals

The recommended maintenance intervals are similar for most makes of gas turbines. These are:

• Combustor inspection at 8,000 equivalent operating hours (EOH)
• Hot gas path component at 24,000 EOH
• Major inspection at around 48,000 to 50,000 EOH

All gas turbines need the above to maintain their warranty so all will be routinely out of service. Steam turbines generally every 2-3 years. Wind turbines 1-2 years etc etc

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:34 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Australia 'on track' to generate half its electricity from renewable sources by 2025, report finds

 

Posted Mon 11 Jul 2022 at 12:57pmMonday 11 Jul 2022 at 12:57pm, updated Mon 11 Jul 2022 at 5:41pmMonday 11 Jul 2022 at 5:41pm

Solar is seen as the leading contender to decarbonise global energy systems.(ABC News: Michael Franchi)

Australia is on track to generate half its electricity needs from renewable sources within three years, according to a report highlighting the extraordinary pace of change underway in the country's energy system.

Key points:

• The Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering says the country's renewable energy share will rise to 69 per cent by 2030
• The academy is calling for changes to help guide and coordinate massive investments needed to transition away from fossil fuels
• It comes as amid upheaval in the eastern states' power and gas industries, which have been hit hard by soaring prices and fears of supply shortages

 

In what it described as a snapshot of the industry, the Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering (AATSE) found renewable energy adoption was galloping ahead as wind and solar power became cheaper.

The group, which is comprised of technical experts, said renewable energy was "tracking towards" 50 per cent of Australia's electricity generation in 2025, a share that was expected to rise to 69 per cent by 2030.

It also suggested Australia's electricity networks would be capable of running on 100 per cent green energy for periods at a time by the middle of the decade.

Time for simple math. 

Aussie annual power consumption: 213 million MWh.

Installed solar: 16 GW = 4 GW actual output. = 35 million MWh annual output. 

Hmm.... No. They'll just end up with Germany's situation. 

Installed wind is presently only 7.7 GW. This is such a joke. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Time for simple math. 

Aussie annual power consumption: 213 million MWh.

Installed solar: 16 GW = 4 GW actual output. = 35 million MWh annual output. 

Hmm.... No. They'll just end up with Germany's situation. 

Installed wind is presently only 7.7 GW. This is such a joke. 

Time for using real numbers.

Wind produced 28K GWh over the last year with a 12.6% share.

Solar did better at 29K GWh and a 13.1% share.

Combined that is 25.7% of total electricity production in Australia. Do you think 25% market share is a joke?

https://opennem.org.au/energy/au/?range=1y&interval=1w

Hydro adds another 7% share for a renewables total of 33%! 50% isn't far off.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:26 AM, TailingsPond said:

Coal is dirty; coal is no longer cheap; coal plants are increasingly unreliable.

3 strikes you're out!

The Chinese still research into better coal plants

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/

mostly ultra-supercritical (running hotter = higher efficiency)

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Time for using real numbers.

Wind produced 28K GWh over the last year with a 12.6% share.

Solar did better at 29K GWh and a 13.1% share.

Combined that is 25.7% of total electricity production in Australia. Do you think 25% market share is a joke?

https://opennem.org.au/energy/au/?range=1y&interval=1w

Hydro adds another 7% share for a renewables total of 33%! 50% isn't far off.

33% is pretty far off. You need to take hydroelectric off the percentage because nobody here says hydro is bad. 

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:38 AM, markslawson said:

 no one ever said that coal plants can always put out full power. Of course they can't.

 "In essence, academics are FINALLY starting to realize that wind droughts are an issue with intermittent systems and studying them."

Your words... what are the non-intermittent systems?

Laughable.  "No one ever said, except you and many others."

 

intermittent

Adjective

Stopping and starting, occurring, or presenting at intervals; coming after a particular time span.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by TailingsPond