Wind droughts

[NickW + 2,714]

On 7/31/2022 at 5:34 AM, Ron Wagner said:

Thanks for the information. I was going by what I found online and the fact that Yeti Goal Zero sells lead acid for their extra battery backup. I have only 1,500 watt hours but it is enough to run what I need for two c-paps, a fan, and lighting. My heat is natural gas from a small heating stove. I am considering adding batteries at some point but have an old generator I can rely on if my solar panels can't keep up in bad weather. I haven't even tested them for near zero to 80% charge on solar yet. I only get about eight hours of good sunlight on my property because of trees. I might add two solar panels to my roof also. Just one small spot is good for that. I have 300 watt movable solar panels right now. 

https://www.goalzero.com/products/goal-zero-yeti-1500x-portable-power-station

If you look after lead acids you'll get 10 years plus life out of them for emergency back up. 

Don't routinely deep discharge (>50%)

Protect them from cold and extreme heat

Keep them charged / Don't over charge

In day to day situations just slow charge. 

Desulphate periodically. 

 

[NickW + 2,714]

On 7/25/2022 at 10:06 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Solar is at max during summer and will makeup for the summer wind droughts. Batteries are a fantastic storage for hourly load shifting that work extremely well with solar and they are growing very, very fast. You are just choosing to ignore them. Oh and California's large grid level battery storage is proving extremely practical during its commercial implementation. 

California has the largest amount of utility-scale batteries connected to the grid in the U.S., reaching 3,163 MW as of June 1, according to CAISO. And many more large battery storage systems are expected, with 700 MW projected to have been added last month, said CAISO CEO Elliot Mainzer.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-grid-operator-enhances-reliability-prospects-utility-battery-storage/627083/

If you look at Europe over the last 8 days in this 'extreme wind drought' Europes (Inc UK and Norway) supply of leccy has been 

12.3,14.5,12.1,9.6,11.2,11,10.9,9.6 % Correspondingly solar output has been high. 

Contrary to the claims of the no wind for months brigade on here over winter the % from wind rarely drops below 10% and is often above 20%. 

Wind Power Numbers | WindEurope

[Ron Wagner + 709]

10 hours ago, NickW said:

If you look after lead acids you'll get 10 years plus life out of them for emergency back up. 

Don't routinely deep discharge (>50%)

Protect them from cold and extreme heat

Keep them charged / Don't over charge

In day to day situations just slow charge. 

Desulphate periodically. 

 

Many thanks for the advice. 

[Ron Wagner + 709]

13 hours ago, NickW said:

Today I am awaiting delivery of 2.7KW of solar panels and 2 grid tie inverters. This will be added to my 1.5KW set up. 

The intention was to tie up the installation with my wifes purchase of a PHEV (next spring) but I bought the plan fwd so we have more of our own supply over winter  and my small personal FU to Putler.

I am also purchasing 4 135ah 12v batteries as stand alone storage plus an additional inverter (already have 2). In the event of extended power cuts I can run an extension cable from the inverter and run lower power items such as the solar water heating pump and controls, LED lamps, IPAD charges, the internet connection. I will resist powering the boiler as this would just exacerbate the European gas shortage in our personal way. House is well insulated and we are acclimatised to 16 Deg C internal temp. Most peoples houses are way too hot. 

For cooking and hot water I have 2 spirit stoves and the 2 ring gas cooker off the yacht. Also got one of these for using wood outside and cooking food. 

Portable Wood Burning Cook Stoves | Rocket Stove Cooking - EcoZoom

and one of these

'Base Camp' Kelly Kettle® 1.6ltr : Anodised Aluminium Kettle + Upgraded Stainless Steel Fire-Base + Green Whistle | Boil Water Fast Outdoors | Camping Kettle and Camp Stove in one | Ultra fast | Lightweight | Wood Fueled Camp Stove For Solo or Group Use | NO Batteries | NO Gas | Fuel is FREE | For Fishing, Hunting, Scouts, Family Picnics | Weight 1.8lb / 0.8kg : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

In fact as part of my personal FU to Putler I am going to cook 2 meals a week on the wood stove over the winter months 

Great planning! We have three ICE vehicles that will last us a long time. By then my younger wife can buy an electric vehicle at a good price. Our three cylinder Mitsubishi mirage is a gasoline sipper. 

We recently bought a large Solo stove and a cowboy type grill for use on our deck. We also have a propane grill and a smoker. She is studying how to use a new food dryer and how to can meats. She already cans jams and fruits as time allows. We have two large garages and are trying to make room for essentials. We live in corn and soybean country so will never starve. 

I may get a large propane tank for my dual gas heating stove and a dual gas generator also natural gas or propane. I am taking it slowly. I only have a sunny spot, on my roof for two large panels. I want to tie them all , in some way, to our breaker box or in some manual way with a second breaker box. 

I would have to get a pro install everything for me but it is a long term project. I will also learn how to use a CB radio eventually. 

[lexington green + 22]

Sorry, but suggesting that pollution of "water and landmass" from new mining is some how comparable, by impact,  to what is happening to the atmosphere of the entire world is a very weak attempt to sandbag the conversation.   Aluminum and copper are 100% recyclable.  Windmill blades can be made from carbon fiber; it's source materials aren't mined.  More than 90% of the materials in a solar panel are also recyclable.   The fossil powered grid already shuts off capacity, and adds capacity every day, and several times a day.   When the morning temperature goes from 80 F to 95F by mid afternoon, the grid has to add capacity.  So a wind drought is not some technical problem without solution.  Power grids throttle power capacity up and down every day.  When coal power plants in Germany are running, the amount of pollution they generate is puny compared to 30 years ago, because half the country's power is now non-fossil generated.  It's the 4th largest economy in the world; it's GDP in 2021 was about 3%.    The capital costs of nuclear power means it has *never* been profitable anywhere in the world.  After construction, a typical 1000 MW nuclear plant suffers losses into the billions, much of which are never recouped.   Meaning if you like nuclear, then you *love* subsidies.  Fossil fuel industries in the US currently get about 20 billion annually in direct subsidies from the US government.   Wind and solar are competition to other forms of power generation; competition is a good thing.  They don't survive in the marketplace due to subsidies any more than petrolium, natural gas and nuclear do.  

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:55 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Batteries can easily get the grid to 85% renewable share. Multi-day combined wind and solar droughts are very rare extreme events and can easily be backed up with natural gas if nothing else is available in the near term. Storage beyond batteries is only needed for that last 15%. From green hydrogen to compressed air there are solutions in rapid development. 

This isn't a sims game where you can place shit everywhere with unlimited resources. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

This isn't a sims game where you can place shit everywhere with unlimited resources. 

Then it is a good thing we have all these fossil fuel power plants that can be repurposed.

Development approval given for 1,000MWh battery storage at Australian coal plant site

https://www.energy-storage.news/development-approval-given-for-1000mwh-battery-storage-at-australian-coal-plant-site/

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

2 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Then it is a good thing we have all these fossil fuel power plants that can be repurposed.

Development approval given for 1,000MWh battery storage at Australian coal plant site

https://www.energy-storage.news/development-approval-given-for-1000mwh-battery-storage-at-australian-coal-plant-site/

One hour of storage for a nameplate 1000 MW plant. What's the cost? 

Oh, $279 million. What power price difference does the project capture? 

Edited August 11, 2022 by KeyboardWarrior

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

8 hours ago, lexington green said:

The capital costs of nuclear power means it has *never* been profitable anywhere in the world.

Deliberately spreading information that you know to be false. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

One hour of storage for a nameplate 1000 MW plant. What's the cost? 

Read the article?

The project, expected to require about AU$400 million (US$279 million) investment, is therefore in an important strategic location, the developer said.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:06 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Solar is at max during summer and will makeup for the summer wind droughts. Batteries are a fantastic storage for hourly load shifting that work extremely well with solar and they are growing very, very fast. You are just choosing to ignore them. Oh and California's large grid level battery storage is proving extremely practical during its commercial implementation. 

California has the largest amount of utility-scale batteries connected to the grid in the U.S., reaching 3,163 MW as of June 1, according to CAISO. And many more large battery storage systems are expected, with 700 MW projected to have been added last month, said CAISO CEO Elliot Mainzer.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-grid-operator-enhances-reliability-prospects-utility-battery-storage/627083/

Jay, you are simply confirming the criticisms of your rosy dream forecasts. That does not help your cause.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 8/11/2022 at 1:33 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Read the article?

The project, expected to require about AU$400 million (US$279 million) investment, is therefore in an important strategic location, the developer said.

Again "expected"....you are living in a futuristic fantasy world.

A genuine economist knows that we live in a variable price system where scarce commodities cause price changes and shifting allocations of resources.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Ecocharger

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:33 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The project, expected to require about AU$400 million (US$279 million) investment, is therefore in an important strategic location, the developer said

My investment in $400 million in cigarettes is therefore a strategic decision. Since when does the cost determine whether or not something is strategic? 

[Ron Wagner + 709]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:47 AM, Boat said:

The blindness of policy makers lead straight to the corruption of the FF community that buy off politicians and feed false information to the public. Robust revamp of the grid along with an entire network of modern transmission lines has been discussed for over 30 years in the US for example. Government and news sources are like goldfish, they reboot after short amounts of time, forgetting all previous responsibility and challenges. 

We have had 10 years of very high "shovel ready" Democratic spending on "infrastructure" that benefits Democrats and their friends. They should have built all that infrastructure with no problems but they really don't know how to get anything done in a economic way. They are more interested in making sure that every employee works for unions or the government. During the reign of FDR there were no government unions or demands for union wages. Great roads were built as were a great armed forces to battle the Nazis. Great results with a lot less money spent. Giant dams included. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

8 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

We have had 10 years of very high "shovel ready" Democratic spending on "infrastructure" that benefits Democrats and their friends. They should have built all that infrastructure with no problems but they really don't know how to get anything done in a economic way. They are more interested in making sure that every employee works for unions or the government. During the reign of FDR there were no government unions or demands for union wages. Great roads were built as were a great armed forces to battle the Nazis. Great results with a lot less money spent. Giant dams included. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

 

There were also work armies, where people worked for food

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps

Difference to the Commies pretty much nil

[Ron Wagner + 709]

9 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

There were also work armies, where people worked for food

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps

Difference to the Commies pretty much nil

No, they were voluntary workers with a good life. Not like the gulag archipelago. If you are talking about willing volunteers please explain. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

7 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

No, they were voluntary workers with a good life. Not like the gulag archipelago. If you are talking about willing volunteers please explain. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

Easily. It is a work of fiction. Stalin's Gulag incarcerated about 0.3% of the Soviet population, and the longest sentence was 15 years. Modern day US incarcerates nearly 1% and also has the longest sentences ever, producing 22% of the entire world's inmates. This makes you the most abusive police state ever, way ahead of DPRK and Turkmenistan, remote runner-ups. Stalin's USSR is not even close.

What I meant is more like the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_construction_projects / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Construction_Projects_of_Communism

built by volunteer student brigades. Notable examples of those include the North Crimean Canal (which the Nazi Ukraine dared to block) or Baikal Amur Mainline (the main annex to Transsib) We are talking real volunteers here, who were of both sexes and often stayed to live next to what they built as new families.

As far as the "Civilian Conservation Corps", of course they volunteered. With alternative being dying from starvation. Good life off $30 monthly wages, of which they could keep $5? I highly doubt it. So, I take my words back. USSR was already the lesser evil back when.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Boat + 1,324]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:18 PM, Ron Wagner said:

We have had 10 years of very high "shovel ready" Democratic spending on "infrastructure" that benefits Democrats and their friends. They should have built all that infrastructure with no problems but they really don't know how to get anything done in a economic way. They are more interested in making sure that every employee works for unions or the government. During the reign of FDR there were no government unions or demands for union wages. Great roads were built as were a great armed forces to battle the Nazis. Great results with a lot less money spent. Giant dams included. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

 

You need to look at a wind map. Solar you could say is in bluer states but red solar is catching up. With nat gas at $8 who wants it. With oil at $95 electric cars will just grow faster. Texas is the new red electric car world with Musk a red supporter. Renewables will not stop your complaints or lies but you’ll buy the product and use it because it will be cheaper. 
We understand you like cheap government projects that pay low wages and no benefits. You loved that citizens worked hard and died young. Just spread the seed for your replacements and all is well. A handful of oligarchs ran the country and controlled the wealth. Thank goodness some of us are working to fight ignorance from home and abroad. Let’s work on woke and contemplate reality. Nobody wants it so it must be right. 

[Ron Wagner + 709]

Boat, America does not want to mine lithium for environmental reasons, South American people don't want to mine it for the same reasons. That leaves China free to mine it for themselves. We will see how that goes for them.

I don't see fast growth for people buying electric cars. Hybrids make sense and people will buy them. The wealthy will buy electric vehicles because they don't have to look for real economy. I am right in the middle of the middle class as a retired person. From my viewpoint they are too expensive. Upper middle class will buy some. 

Let's wait for some real gains in market share over the next ten years. New battery technology and smaller affordable electric vehicles would help. right now lithium prices are far too high. It is an abundant mineral worldwide, hopefully it can be mined with best practices and not harm the earth or the poor people that mine it. I have stated, many times, that whatever is most economical is the way to go. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Boat, America does not want to mine lithium for environmental reasons, South American people don't want to mine it for the same reasons. That leaves China free to mine it for themselves. We will see how that goes for them.

I don't see fast growth for people buying electric cars. Hybrids make sense and people will buy them. The wealthy will buy electric vehicles because they don't have to look for real economy. I am right in the middle of the middle class as a retired person. From my viewpoint they are too expensive. Upper middle class will buy some. 

Let's wait for some real gains in market share over the next ten years. New battery technology and smaller affordable electric vehicles would help. right now lithium prices are far too high. It is an abundant mineral worldwide, hopefully it can be mined with best practices and not harm the earth or the poor people that mine it. I have stated, many times, that whatever is most economical is the way to go. 

BEV sales have surpassed hybrid sales:

HEV Sales

In July 2022, 63,366 HEVs (18,600 cars and 44,766 LTs) were sold in the United States, down 14.7% from the sales in July 2021.

Toyota accounted for a 56.7% share of total HEV sales in this month. Prius (Prius and Prius C in total) accounted for 1.7% (1,048 vehicles) of total HEV sales, down 73.7% from July 2021.

Plug-In Vehicle Sales

A total of 79,325 plug-in vehicles (66,406 BEVs and 12,919 PHEVs) were sold during July 2022 in the United States, up 37.5% from the sales in July 2021. PEVs captured 7.02% of total LDV sales this month.

[Michael Sanches + 187]

The important thing is that used fiberglass windmill blades can be turned into gummy bears. Yummy!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

The important thing is that used fiberglass windmill blades can be turned into gummy bears. Yummy!

Care to share the recipe?

[Michael Sanches + 187]

15 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Care to share the recipe?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/23/wind-turbine-blades-could-recycled-gummy-bears-scientists

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 8/19/2022 at 5:14 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

BEV sales have surpassed hybrid sales:

HEV Sales

In July 2022, 63,366 HEVs (18,600 cars and 44,766 LTs) were sold in the United States, down 14.7% from the sales in July 2021.

Toyota accounted for a 56.7% share of total HEV sales in this month. Prius (Prius and Prius C in total) accounted for 1.7% (1,048 vehicles) of total HEV sales, down 73.7% from July 2021.

Plug-In Vehicle Sales

A total of 79,325 plug-in vehicles (66,406 BEVs and 12,919 PHEVs) were sold during July 2022 in the United States, up 37.5% from the sales in July 2021. PEVs captured 7.02% of total LDV sales this month.

As an apartment dweller, if I were to buy a new car, it would be a hybrid. The one drawback is catalytic converter thefts.

I like the dual system, because you retain the safety (range) and flexibility (snow, ice, freezing weather).

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

30 minutes ago, Michael Sanches said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/23/wind-turbine-blades-could-recycled-gummy-bears-scientists

 Potassium lactate seems to be an antimicrobial food additive, not really food as such

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_lactate

The main users are meat and poultry, not candy. So, glass fiber digestion remains elusive. It is also sad how the British have no non-tabloid quality press left.

Do you see anything edible here?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Chemical-compositions-of-glass-fibers-in-wt_tbl1_265346634

Edited August 24, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine