Energy Armageddon

[Metalmania + 37]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:07 PM, turbguy said:

Doesn't this "count"?

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/edwards-sanborn-solar-and-energy-storage-project/

I assume that rooftop solar installations have not ceased, either.

"The Edwards & Sanborn solar and energy storage project is estimated to produce sufficient electricity to power approximately 158,000 households". WOWZY! That's almost enough just for the Antelope Valley at today's current usage, let alone all the thousands of new EV we'll have to buy. We're going to need about 1000 more of these Solar Farms just for Southern California. And just how do you plan on recycling all these solar panels after the 15 year contract is up?    

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Metalmania said:

"The Edwards & Sanborn solar and energy storage project is estimated to produce sufficient electricity to power approximately 158,000 households". WOWZY! That's almost enough just for the Antelope Valley at today's current usage, let alone all the thousands of new EV we'll have to buy. We're going to need about 1000 more of these Solar Farms just for Southern California. And just how do you plan on recycling all these solar panels after the 15 year contract is up?    

So there is this thing called offshore wind:

CEC Adopts Historic California Offshore Wind Goals, Enough to Power Upwards of 25 Million Homes

For Immediate Release: Aug 10, 2022

New goals of up to 5,000 MW by 2030 and 25,000 MW by 2045 will accelerate California’s transition to 100% clean electricity 

 SACRAMENTO – Today the California Energy Commission (CEC) adopted a report establishing offshore wind goals and moving the state one step closer to development of the clean energy resource off California’s coast. Preliminary findings in the report set planning goals of 2,000-5,000 megawatts (MW) of offshore wind by 2030 and 25,000 MW by 2045, enough electricity to power 3.75 million initially and 25 million homes by mid-century.

[Metalmania + 37]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

So there is this thing called offshore wind:

CEC Adopts Historic California Offshore Wind Goals, Enough to Power Upwards of 25 Million Homes

For Immediate Release: Aug 10, 2022

New goals of up to 5,000 MW by 2030 and 25,000 MW by 2045 will accelerate California’s transition to 100% clean electricity 

 SACRAMENTO – Today the California Energy Commission (CEC) adopted a report establishing offshore wind goals and moving the state one step closer to development of the clean energy resource off California’s coast. Preliminary findings in the report set planning goals of 2,000-5,000 megawatts (MW) of offshore wind by 2030 and 25,000 MW by 2045, enough electricity to power 3.75 million initially and 25 million homes by mid-century.

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

27 minutes ago, Metalmania said:

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

Yeah setting lofty goals has never worked out for anyone. Especially when they are already proving themself a global leader in a massive market.

Where exactly are you going to go to run away from renewable energy and EVs? 

[notsonice + 1,243]

5 hours ago, Metalmania said:

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

if you do not like a progressive California setting goals...you can always move to Russia where time stands still

Edited February 8, 2023 by notsonice

[notsonice + 1,243]

5 hours ago, Metalmania said:

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

what are you waiting for???? 2025???  Russia needs people now

Edited February 8, 2023 by notsonice

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

11 hours ago, Metalmania said:

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

Uk is doing it why cant California?

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Uk is doing it why cant California?

UK has vastly superior wind resources giving its best power, generally speaking, when they need it with much higher capacity factors.  Not to mention the UK has giant NG fields for production and storage to balance things.  California does not.  UK's power price is still 2X or 3X that of California. 

UK/Ireland/Iceland literally have the best resources other than Chile/Argentina for renewables in the world. If they can't make it work, no one can. 

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

4 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

UK has vastly superior wind resources giving its best power, generally speaking, when they need it with much higher capacity factors.  Not to mention the UK has giant NG fields for production and storage to balance things.  California does not.  UK's power price is still 2X or 3X that of California. 

UK/Ireland/Iceland literally have the best resources other than Chile/Argentina for renewables in the world. If they can't make it work, no one can. 

I wouldnt say vastly superior.

Offshore california has a mean wind speed at 90M of 7M/S compared to the North Sea of 9M/S. Plenty to turn a wind turbine!

The US has plenty of onshore wind where the M/S is less.

https://windexchange.energy.gov/maps-data/146#:~:text=The California offshore 90-meter (m) height wind map,generally considered to be suitable for offshore development.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

12 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

UK has vastly superior wind resources giving its best power, generally speaking, when they need it with much higher capacity factors.  Not to mention the UK has giant NG fields for production and storage to balance things.  California does not.  UK's power price is still 2X or 3X that of California. 

UK/Ireland/Iceland literally have the best resources other than Chile/Argentina for renewables in the world. If they can't make it work, no one can. 

Oh the footjob speaks.

The US has outstanding wind resources on both coasts, close to our major population centers.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,535]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:52 AM, Metalmania said:

"The Edwards & Sanborn solar and energy storage project is estimated to produce sufficient electricity to power approximately 158,000 households". WOWZY! That's almost enough just for the Antelope Valley at today's current usage, let alone all the thousands of new EV we'll have to buy. We're going to need about 1000 more of these Solar Farms just for Southern California. And just how do you plan on recycling all these solar panels after the 15 year contract is up?    

There was a concern about "no new power plants in California". 

I just provided direct evidence of one.  

It is a LARGE one. 

There will be more.

...and I assume rooftop solar installations have not ceased in California either.

What's the issue?  

Do you believe the USA cannot be sufficiently strong enough to "do what needs to be done"?

Edited February 9, 2023 by turbguy

[Ron Wagner + 702]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:38 PM, Michael Sanches said:

I don't know all the politics involved. But, my energy stocks are paying off debt, increasing dividends, and giving special dividends. One stock dividend went from $0.59 to $0.64 with a $0.94 special dividend.

I LOVE how the middle class votes for the elites to screw them over.

Whoo-hoo, screw 'em good and screw 'em hard!

The upper class would be those voting for and financially supporting the woke politicians and businessmen. The wealthier often prefer to look down upon the middle class. The middle class is a very broad group by definition, even though it is being decimated by inflation and taxes, thanks to the Democrats and RINOS. 

Pew defines “middle class” as those earning between two-thirds and twice the median American household income, which in 2021 was $70,784, according to the United States Census Bureau. That means American households earning as little as $47,189 and up to $141,568 are technically in the middle class.Jan 2, 2023

[Ron Wagner + 702]

18 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Uk is doing it why cant California?

Have you ever been to America? I lived there half of my life. Back in the days when California was a wonderful place. I lived in Northern, Central, and Southern California. To drive from San Diego to Eureka is over a 12 hour drive without traffic jams or long meals. That is not even the longest drive across the state. It is comparable to driving from Bremerhaven Germany to Milan Italy. In fact it  is exactly the same distance. I have been to both. It is only 9 hours to go from Thune, Scotland to Plymouth England. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Ron Wagner

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

5 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Have you ever been to America? I lived there half of my life. Back in the days when California was a wonderful place. I lived in Northern, Central, and Southern California. To drive from San Diego to Eureka is over a 12 hour drive without traffic jams or long meals. That is not even the longest drive across the state. It is comparable to driving from Bremerhaven Germany to Milan Italy. In fact it  is exactly the same distance. I have been to both. It is only 9 hours to go from Thune, Scotland to Plymouth England. 

Yes I've been to the US several times Ron.

Yep its difficult for Europeans to grasp distance across states. I have driven from Orlando to Panama City (7 hours) and still in Florida, Ive also driven from Niagara to Edmonton so i do get it.

I dont really get your point and how this relates to why the US cant do offshore wind though?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

16 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Have you ever been to America? I lived there half of my life. Back in the days when California was a wonderful place. I lived in Northern, Central, and Southern California. To drive from San Diego to Eureka is over a 12 hour drive without traffic jams or long meals. That is not even the longest drive across the state. It is comparable to driving from Bremerhaven Germany to Milan Italy. In fact it  is exactly the same distance. I have been to both. It is only 9 hours to go from Thune, Scotland to Plymouth England. 

What does this have to do with anything? 

San Diego to Eureka is 746 miles. Penzance to John O Groats in the UK is 827 miles. 

The California border with Mexico is 675 miles from the Oregon border as the crow flies.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:12 AM, Rob Plant said:

I wouldnt say vastly superior.

Offshore california has a mean wind speed at 90M of 7M/S compared to the North Sea of 9M/S. Plenty to turn a wind turbine!

The US has plenty of onshore wind where the M/S is less.

https://windexchange.energy.gov/maps-data/146#:~:text=The California offshore 90-meter (m) height wind map,generally considered to be suitable for offshore development.

100% superior is not vastly... in your world... Uh, then what the Hell is? 

California... water offshore where there is wind is extremely deep.  Over a kilometer deep.  Do you not know how power increases with wind velocity?  By the CUBE of wind velocity.   This makes California offshore @7m/s near useless compared to UK's @9m/s.  7^3 ~ half 9^3(it is actually 45%).   Same wind  turbine produces 2X as much power.  UK has shallow seas and why it has such superior wind resources. 

UK has the best wind resource in the world with its shallow seas.  Technically Argentina is better as it is on land...   but it is Argentina

[Ron Wagner + 702]

16 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes I've been to the US several times Ron.

Yep its difficult for Europeans to grasp distance across states. I have driven from Orlando to Panama City (7 hours) and still in Florida, Ive also driven from Niagara to Edmonton so i do get it.

I dont really get your point and how this relates to why the US cant do offshore wind though?

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

Uk is doing it why cant California?

This is the what I was referring to. California totally failed at building normal speed rail through the central valley to San Francisco from Los Angeles. It is the same reason that you may never see offshore wind take off in California. The mentality there today is to oppose growth. There are too many barriers for large projects, even needed water projects:

1. NIMBY Not in my backyard  ( I would oppose any wind turbines within sight of the coast.)

2. Cost overruns that were several times the budgets that were approved. I think England has a nuclear plant experiencing that problem. We have had several proposed and/or started but never completed. 

3. Union wage employees being mandated, which probably doubles wages and difficulty in finding workers.

4. Several layers of city, county, state, and federal regulatory hurdles.

5. Anger from voting taxpayers over all the delays and very high cost overruns. 

6. Environmentalists that will oppose anything that will kill living things across the spectrum of life. Birds, whales, rodents, mountain lions etc. 

I think that we have the technology. Walt Disney built a monorail that works just fine. That was in Disneyland back in the fifties. I thought they were the thing to come in future decades. Boy was I wrong. 

After seeing the beached whales I am questioning the wind turbines that finally got approval on our northeast Atlantic coast.

•  

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ron Wagner said:

 

This is the what I was referring to. California totally failed at building normal speed rail through the central valley to San Francisco from Los Angeles.

•  

San Francisco has been connected to LA via normal speed rail through the Central Valley since 1876. 

• September 5, 1876: The first through train from San Francisco arrives in Los Angeles, California after traveling over the newly completed Tehachapi Loop.^[7]

Oh and monorail technology has failed around the world. It has nothing to do with California. You are just mistaken again about your economic analysis of technology. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[notsonice + 1,243]

9 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

100% superior is not vastly... in your world... Uh, then what the Hell is? 

California... water offshore where there is wind is extremely deep.  Over a kilometer deep.  Do you not know how power increases with wind velocity?  By the CUBE of wind velocity.   This makes California offshore @7m/s near useless compared to UK's @9m/s.  7^3 ~ half 9^3(it is actually 45%).   Same wind  turbine produces 2X as much power.  UK has shallow seas and why it has such superior wind resources. 

UK has the best wind resource in the world with its shallow seas.  Technically Argentina is better as it is on land...   but it is Argentina

floating offshore ...California will employ it...get used to it

 

 

 

[notsonice + 1,243]

4 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

Uk is doing it why cant California?

This is the what I was referring to. California totally failed at building normal speed rail through the central valley to San Francisco from Los Angeles. It is the same reason that you may never see offshore wind take off in California. The mentality there today is to oppose growth. There are too many barriers for large projects, even needed water projects:

1. NIMBY Not in my backyard  ( I would oppose any wind turbines within sight of the coast.)

2. Cost overruns that were several times the budgets that were approved. I think England has a nuclear plant experiencing that problem. We have had several proposed and/or started but never completed. 

3. Union wage employees being mandated, which probably doubles wages and difficulty in finding workers.

4. Several layers of city, county, state, and federal regulatory hurdles.

5. Anger from voting taxpayers over all the delays and very high cost overruns. 

6. Environmentalists that will oppose anything that will kill living things across the spectrum of life. Birds, whales, rodents, mountain lions etc. 

I think that we have the technology. Walt Disney built a monorail that works just fine. That was in Disneyland back in the fifties. I thought they were the thing to come in future decades. Boy was I wrong. 

After seeing the beached whales I am questioning the wind turbines that finally got approval on our northeast Atlantic coast.

•  

 California totally failed at building normal speed rail through the central valley to San Francisco from Los Angeles. It is the same reason that you may never see offshore wind take off in California??? Huh.......comparing a rail project to wind projects is just silly

I would oppose any wind turbines within sight of the coast.???well why are you not protesting against Oil platforms in California you can see them all over the coastline in Southern California....

Reality today

Biden-Harris Administration Announces Winners of California Offshore Wind Energy Auction

First offshore wind lease sale in the Pacific results in over $757 million in winning bids for five lease areas, which have the potential to power over 1.5 million homes

12/7/2022

Last edited 12/7/2022

 

Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2022
Contact: Interior_Press@ios.doi.gov

WASHINGTON — The Department of the Interior today announced results from the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management’s wind energy auction for five leases offshore California. The lease sale represents the third major offshore wind lease sale this year and the first ever for the Pacific region. Today’s sale drew competitive high bids from 5 companies totaling $757.1 million, well exceeding the first lease sales that were held in the Atlantic.

“The Biden-Harris administration believes that to address the climate crisis head on, we must unleash a new era of clean, reliable energy that serves every household in America. Today’s lease sale is further proof that industry momentum – including for floating offshore wind development – is undeniable,” said Secretary Deb Haaland. “A sustainable, clean energy future is within our grasp and the Interior Department is doing everything we can to ensure that American communities nationwide benefit.”

The interest and success of today’s sale represents a significant milestone toward achieving President Biden’s goal of deploying 30 gigawatts of offshore wind energy capacity by 2030 and 15 gigawatts of floating offshore wind capacity by 2035.

“The innovative bidding credits in the California auction will result in tangible investments for the floating offshore wind workforce and supply chain in the United States, and benefits to Tribes, communities, and ocean users potentially affected by future offshore wind activities. This auction commits substantial investment to support economic growth from floating offshore wind energy development – including the jobs that come with it,” said BOEM Director Amanda Lefton. “These credits and additional lease stipulations demonstrate BOEM’s commitment to responsibly grow the offshore wind industry to achieve our offshore wind goals.”

BOEM’s lease sale offered five lease areas covering 373,268 total acres off central and northern California. The leased areas have the potential to produce over 4.6 gigawatts of offshore wind energy, enough to power over 1.5 million homes.

Provisional Winner	Lease Area	Acres	High Bid
RWE Offshore Wind Holdings, LLC	OCS-P 0561	63,338	$157,700,000
California North Floating, LLC	OCS-P 0562	69,031	$173,800,000
Equinor Wind US, LLC	OCS-P 0563	80,062	$130,000,000
Central California Offshore Wind, LLC	OCS-P 0564	80,418	$150,300,000
Invenergy California Offshore LLC	OCS-P 0565	80,418	$145,300,000

The lease sale included a 20-percent credit for bidders who committed to a monetary contribution to programs or initiatives that support workforce training programs for the floating offshore wind industry, the development of a U.S. domestic supply chain for the floating offshore wind energy industry, or both. This credit will result in over $117 million in investments for these critical programs or initiatives.

The auction also included 5% credits for bidders who committed to entering community benefit agreements (CBAs). The first type of agreement is a Lease Area Use CBA with communities, stakeholder groups, or Tribal entities whose use of the lease areas or use of the resources harvested from the lease areas is expected to be impacted by offshore wind development. The second type of agreement is a General CBA with communities, Tribes, or stakeholder groups that are expected to be affected by the potential impacts on the marine, coastal or human environment from lease development.

Under stipulations in the leases, lessees are required to engage with Tribes, ocean users, and local communities that may be affected by their lease activities. Lessee engagement must allow for early and active information sharing, focused discussion of potential issues, and collaborative identification of solutions. These communication and engagement activities must be routinely reported to BOEM. These lease stipulations are intended to promote offshore wind energy development in a way that coexists with other ocean uses, addresses potential impacts and benefits, and protects the ocean environment, while also facilitating our nation’s energy future for generations to come.

More information about today’s sale, including a map of the lease areas and requirements regarding the bidding credits, can be found on BOEM’s website.

Edited February 10, 2023 by notsonice

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

12 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

100% superior is not vastly... in your world... Uh, then what the Hell is? 

California... water offshore where there is wind is extremely deep.  Over a kilometer deep.  Do you not know how power increases with wind velocity?  By the CUBE of wind velocity.   This makes California offshore @7m/s near useless compared to UK's @9m/s.  7^3 ~ half 9^3(it is actually 45%).   Same wind  turbine produces 2X as much power.  UK has shallow seas and why it has such superior wind resources. 

UK has the best wind resource in the world with its shallow seas.  Technically Argentina is better as it is on land...   but it is Argentina

So by your own measures above UK wind is 45% better but its 100% superior? well aint  that a doozy!

Edited February 10, 2023 by Rob Plant

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

6 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Lofty "goals" are CA's downfall. Kind of like that High Speed Rail and all the low income housing they're building. LOL My "goal" is to be out of the hell hole before 2025 and never look back.

 

Uk is doing it why cant California?

This is the what I was referring to. California totally failed at building normal speed rail through the central valley to San Francisco from Los Angeles. It is the same reason that you may never see offshore wind take off in California. The mentality there today is to oppose growth. There are too many barriers for large projects, even needed water projects:

1. NIMBY Not in my backyard  ( I would oppose any wind turbines within sight of the coast.)

2. Cost overruns that were several times the budgets that were approved. I think England has a nuclear plant experiencing that problem. We have had several proposed and/or started but never completed. 

3. Union wage employees being mandated, which probably doubles wages and difficulty in finding workers.

4. Several layers of city, county, state, and federal regulatory hurdles.

5. Anger from voting taxpayers over all the delays and very high cost overruns. 

6. Environmentalists that will oppose anything that will kill living things across the spectrum of life. Birds, whales, rodents, mountain lions etc. 

I think that we have the technology. Walt Disney built a monorail that works just fine. That was in Disneyland back in the fifties. I thought they were the thing to come in future decades. Boy was I wrong. 

After seeing the beached whales I am questioning the wind turbines that finally got approval on our northeast Atlantic coast.

•  

Ron some valid points and clearly not all areas offshore are condusive to wind power.

Dont really get the beached whales comment as this happens all the time around the globe where there are no wind turbines

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

2 hours ago, notsonice said:

floating offshore ...California will employ it...get used to it

 

 

 

Yep floating wind is the future but at present costs are very expensive compared to onshore or even offshore fixed.

My company supplied parts for the mooring system for the London Array which is part floating.

https://londonarray.com/

There is also Hywind, yes owned by Equinor an oil major, this is an example of how most oil and gas companies/utilities in Europe are diversifying along with their supply chain.

https://www.equinor.com/energy/hywind-scotland

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

So by your own measures above UK wind is 45% better but its 100% superior? well aint  that a doozy!

Primary school Maths  One number in front of the other = ?  And if you flip it the other direction it =???

👍

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

@Rob Plant  My bad, I  thought you were an adult who could do basic math. 

Guess not

Adios