Energy Armageddon

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

9 hours ago, El Gato said:

Range? If it don't go 500 plus mi on a charge, I don't want it! We don't' live in a country we can cross in a couple of hours,

0-60 don't do a bit of good if it dies in a 100  miles, not to mention the cold killing the batteries

Why do I have to literally spoon feed you information when you clearly are too lazy to read the link I originally posted!

If you cant read then thats your problem not mine.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

On 1/3/2023 at 2:59 PM, El Gato said:

And Price?  We are in a recession now. People can't afford electric vehicles. The ones pushing are those showing off their economic privileged. Median US income is 53k

Median income can not even afford 20k car, let alone higher. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 1/7/2023 at 4:34 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Median income can not even afford 20k car, let alone higher. 

Really?

The median salary in the US in 2022 was $54K

https://en.as.com/latest_news/what-is-the-average-salary-in-the-usa-and-how-much-is-the-most-i-can-earn-in-my-job-n/

Are you saying median income earners cant get finance on a car worth $20K when they earn $54K?

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

32 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Really?

The median salary in the US in 2022 was $54K

https://en.as.com/latest_news/what-is-the-average-salary-in-the-usa-and-how-much-is-the-most-i-can-earn-in-my-job-n/

Are you saying median income earners cant get finance on a car worth $20K when they earn $54K?

 

???  Big ass difference between afford, and loan sharks.  Sharks will loan to cardboard box dwellers. 

You can help no one when in debt. 

No one can afford dumping 40% of a year of their life on transportation.  At least not anyone with goals of saving money for a better life of owning a business which pays. 

Only an F'ing idiot of epic proportions takes a loan out on a car or gets comprehensive auto insurance.  Lot of short sighted dumb people in this world though.

Edited January 9, 2023 by footeab@yahoo.com

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

10 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

???  Big ass difference between afford, and loan sharks.  Sharks will loan to cardboard box dwellers. 

You can help no one when in debt. 

No one can afford dumping 40% of a year of their life on transportation.  At least not anyone with goals of saving money for a better life of owning a business which pays. 

Only an F'ing idiot of epic proportions takes a loan out on a car or gets comprehensive auto insurance.  Lot of short sighted dumb people in this world though.

Who is on about loan sharks????

Who is on about "dumping 40% of a year of their life on transportation"? I presume you mean using 40% of their annual salary on buying a car. Nobody!! as you wouldnt buy it cash unless you are rich which is not the demograph we're talking about, thats why I said finance.

Do you not have any respectable vehicle financing companies in America??? Jeez!

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Really?

The median salary in the US in 2022 was $54K

https://en.as.com/latest_news/what-is-the-average-salary-in-the-usa-and-how-much-is-the-most-i-can-earn-in-my-job-n/

Are you saying median income earners cant get finance on a car worth $20K when they earn $54K?

 

The problem is so many people mortgaged to the balls for housing. Thats certainly the elephant in the room in the UK and Australia where large % of the population are mortgaged 4-6x gross combined salary to afford a rabbit hutch / sub standard unit (in Oz) 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

2 hours ago, NickW said:

The problem is so many people mortgaged to the balls for housing. Thats certainly the elephant in the room in the UK and Australia where large % of the population are mortgaged 4-6x gross combined salary to afford a rabbit hutch / sub standard unit (in Oz) 

Have you not heard of the 28% rule?

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/what-percent-of-income-should-go-to-mortgage/

No more than 28% of your income should go to pay your mortgage! Ok recent inflationary pressures and interest hikes have made this tougher I do agree.

Anyway pretty much everyone who works needs a car, so spread $25K over say 10 years at 5% interest to finance it and that should be affordable to the median American. Maybe I'm wrong and all the cars on American roads are all 10 years old and worth nothing. Having said that 13.9 million cars/trucks were sold in the US in 2022 so I guess not.

[NickW + 2,714]

15 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Have you not heard of the 28% rule?

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/what-percent-of-income-should-go-to-mortgage/

No more than 28% of your income should go to pay your mortgage! Ok recent inflationary pressures and interest hikes have made this tougher I do agree.

Anyway pretty much everyone who works needs a car, so spread $25K over say 10 years at 5% interest to finance it and that should be affordable to the median American. Maybe I'm wrong and all the cars on American roads are all 10 years old and worth nothing. Having said that 13.9 million cars/trucks were sold in the US in 2022 so I guess not.

Unfortunately the demand for housing has totally outstripped supply driven by speculative investors, dodgy foreign money, and  open door migration policies. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

2 minutes ago, NickW said:

Unfortunately the demand for housing has totally outstripped supply driven by speculative investors, dodgy foreign money, and  open door migration policies. 

We seem to have strayed away from the point which was can median earning Americans on $54K a year afford to buy on finance a $25K EV?

I believe they can providing they dont lead extravagant lifestyles and live beyond their means.

I reckon you could lease one for less than $5K a year let alone buy one

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

6 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

We seem to have strayed away from the point which was can median earning Americans on $54K a year afford to buy on finance a $25K EV?

I believe they can providing they dont lead extravagant lifestyles and live beyond their means.

I reckon you could lease one for less than $5K a year let alone buy one

Mr Plant...have you ever taken the time to pencil the cost of automotive ownership? A 50 thousand dollar car would exceed 700 a month....Now if one cracks 200k yrly it begins to make some sense....vanity can be quite costly at times. That is a personal choice.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Mr Plant...have you ever taken the time to pencil the cost of automotive ownership? A 50 thousand dollar car would exceed 700 a month....Now if one cracks 200k yrly it begins to make some sense....vanity can be quite costly at times. That is a personal choice.

Yes EWO that is why I said on $54K per year salary you should be able to buy a vehicle for $25K NOT $50K as you have put and it cost you no more than $400 per month. Based on your $50K car costing $700 / month then thats $350/$400 month for a $25k car. Can the median earning American not afford this???? Seems reasonable to me!

https://www.carsdirect.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/prices-deals

Looks like my initial $400 guesstimate was pretty accurate EWO

Try reading my posts, instead of saying things that I havent said!

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

1 minute ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes EWO that is why I said on $54K per year salary you should be able to buy a vehicle for $25K NOT $50K as you have put and it cost you no more than $400 per month. Based on your $50K car costing $700 / month then thats $350/$400 month for a $25k car. Can the median earning American not afford this???? Seems reasonable to me!

https://www.carsdirect.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/prices-deals

Looks like my initial $400 guesstimate was pretty accurate EWO

Try reading my posts, instead of saying things that I havent said!

Now add insurance fuel and maintenance. Discipline the loan to 48 month's, 60 if needs are that vain... It's the overall cost of ownership. You will find a 25 k car run somewhere north of 500..far beyond the needs of a 50k income....

Look this is not personal by any any means...But sharp angled commentary is desperately needed, this world is losing its foundations. 

Europe and the UK citizenship are facing the dark ages, this green virus is now encroaching US soil. The time has come for this insanity to end.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

11 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Now add insurance fuel and maintenance. Discipline the loan to 48 month's, 60 if needs are that vain... It's the overall cost of ownership. You will find a 25 k car run somewhere north of 500..far beyond the needs of a 50k income....

Look this is not personal by any any means...But sharp angled commentary is desperately needed, this world is losing its foundations. 

Europe and the UK citizenship are facing the dark ages, this green virus is now encroaching US soil. The time has come for this insanity to end.

EWO dont ICE vehicles need fuel, insurance and a hell of a lot more maintenance than EV's too?

I dont want to argue with you but what you state is the same for all vehicles. So again is $500/month too much for someone who earns $54K? The original point was EV's are too expensive for the median earning American to buy but I would argue that a brand new $25K EV vehicle (Chevy Bolt) was roughly the same as a brand new ICE vehicle.

https://clark.com/cars/average-new-car-price/

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

EWO dont ICE vehicles need fuel, insurance and a hell of a lot more maintenance than EV's too?

I dont want to argue with you but what you state is the same for all vehicles. So again is $500/month too much for someone who earns $54K? The original point was EV's are too expensive for the median earning American to buy but I would argue that a brand new $25K EV vehicle (Chevy Bolt) was roughly the same as a brand new ICE vehicle.

https://clark.com/cars/average-new-car-price/

 

Below a link to a Ford Fusion...modest midsize sedan. New 25k not 50, Ford has chosen to drop it for now. In favor for what?  The most recalled vehicle in history?

https://jalopnik.com/the-chevrolet-bolt-has-a-new-fire-related-recall-but-i-1849918445

https://www.carhp.com/ford/fusion

Edited January 10, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

 

Below a link to a Ford Fusion...modest midsize sedan.

People don't want that.

The F150 is Ford's best seller.  Obviously, people are buying expensive ICE vehicles so your "EV's are too expensive" argument is garbage.

FYI people, and governments, buy plenty of things they can't actually afford.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by TailingsPond

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

On 1/9/2023 at 4:55 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Only an F'ing idiot of epic proportions takes a loan out on a car or gets comprehensive auto insurance.  Lot of short sighted dumb people in this world though.

 

I got 0% financing from Toyota, only a fool wouldn't take that free loan as investments pay more than 0%.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

4 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

I got 0% financing from Toyota, only a fool wouldn't take that free loan as investments pay more than 0%.

No they don't pay.  Investments are gambles.  Could lose it all.  One lawsuit and POOF goes 50% of its value. 

A REAL investment is a company which BUILDS product in your nation and has guaranteed long term value which will never disappear giving out big dividends per share every quarter. Or housing which in effect never truly loses value baring a giant depopulation event...

Stock "value" is not an investment at all.  That goes up and down based on inflation/interest rates. 

Buy used cheap ass cars and elbow grease.  Best investment you will ever make.  New cars are literally the worst investment you will ever make where only luxury yachts have worse performance or maybe Jewelry. 

Last car payed scrap value(Honda Odyssey) for as Neighbor was about to take it in($100) and with $700 in injectors, timing belt, and battery, and about 6 hours of work, it has been running like a champ for the last 6 years.  True, the sliding doors have problems, but so what, who cares.    Lets see, $800/6 ... cost of ownership is ~$120/year if you assume some NPV interest and said number is dropping. 

That isn't even 1 months payment in your indebted world.    Meanwhile my credit score is sky high as I am carrying zero debt so if I wanted to buy another house and have sucker renters pay the 15 year mortgage, I still could even on rising interest rates.  Or I can buy laundromat with money saved from NOT buying new cars my entire life like most vain idiots do.   Or pay for college education for my kids.  Or buy farm land or... or .... or.... all because I am not VAIN demanding new cars. 

Put those real world numbers in Robs moronic "calculator"...

Edited January 11, 2023 by footeab@yahoo.com

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

24 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

No they don't pay.  Investments are gambles.

Some investments are gambles but there are guaranteed investments like GIC, bonds, savings accounts, etc.

Cars are not investments - they are liabilities.  However, they are nice to have and are, perhaps unfortunately, a status symbol.

You are much more fiscally responsible than the average person or government. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

8 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Put those real world numbers in Robs moronic "calculator"...

My "morononic calculator" actually totally disproved your moronic argument that EV's are too expensive to buy.

Owning a nice vehicle is not all about practicality or cost relevance, if you choose to make it a luxury item, its just nice to have.

Do you buy run down old shacks to live in? Or do you own a nice house and then choose to furnish it with quality furniture, or do you sit on a wooden box? Its all about personal choice with your disposable income. Maybe thats a concept you will never grasp.

[Metalmania + 37]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:54 AM, Rob Plant said:

Have you not heard of the 28% rule?

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/what-percent-of-income-should-go-to-mortgage/

No more than 28% of your income should go to pay your mortgage! Ok recent inflationary pressures and interest hikes have made this tougher I do agree.

Anyway pretty much everyone who works needs a car, so spread $25K over say 10 years at 5% interest to finance it and that should be affordable to the median American. Maybe I'm wrong and all the cars on American roads are all 10 years old and worth nothing. Having said that 13.9 million cars/trucks were sold in the US in 2022 so I guess not.

I remember the 28% Rule from college, it's a nice theory but doesn't work in CA and probably many other places in the US and abroad. This "rule" would require everyone to earn (net) $100k+ to properly afford housing, and that's far from reality. EV's don't last 10 years (at least the batteries don't) and longest auto loan here is 5 years. I'm still driving a 2009 Toyota with 200k miles on it. Text Book rules make for great discussions but aren't practical for real life.   

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, Metalmania said:

EV's don't last 10 years (at least the batteries don't)

You know this how?

[Ron Wagner + 706]

On 1/11/2023 at 2:50 AM, Rob Plant said:

My "morononic calculator" actually totally disproved your moronic argument that EV's are too expensive to buy.

Owning a nice vehicle is not all about practicality or cost relevance, if you choose to make it a luxury item, its just nice to have.

Do you buy run down old shacks to live in? Or do you own a nice house and then choose to furnish it with quality furniture, or do you sit on a wooden box? Its all about personal choice with your disposable income. Maybe thats a concept you will never grasp.

A home is a major investment that has made millions of people wealthy. Vehicles are to get from here to there. They are all comfortable to sit in, have air conditioning and heaters and a lot of things that were not standard in the past. You can choose from large to small if concerned with gasoline mpg. Expensive cars are a status symbol primarily IMHO.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

3 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Expensive cars are a status symbol primarily IMHO.

Agreed Ron but my point was you can buy a Chevy Bolt that is competitive with many brand new main stream ICE vehicles at $25K.

I dont consider that a luxury vehicle or a status symbol.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

16 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

You know this how?

@AlBub have you actually got anything to say, backed up by data/evidence or do you just down vote everything based on your own outdated beliefs having done zero research?

Just asking for a friend.