Energy Armageddon

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

On 10/28/2022 at 12:34 AM, Ron Wagner said:

So where is that hydrogen and how much is there to buy. Natural gas and LNG are temporarily high because of the Russian war on Ukraine. Ukraine will be producing piped natural gas as will Europe itself. So will most of the rest of the world. Hydrogen production cannot compete on price when fully examined. 

Natural gas prices will come down, but with a major producer not delivering through pipe, it will be mostly LNG. LNG prices in Japan (which is an exclusively LNG market) have been fairly constant at a range of USD 5-15 per 1000cuft, or 290kWh. That is between 2-5 ct per kWh. However, you will need to add an extra USD 5 per 1000cuft to cover the CO2 emission rights. That already puts you in the 3-7 ct region. 

Add to that, there is not sufficient LNG tanker capacity in the world to serve Europe. As long as these tankers are not built, gas prices are high.

Ukraine and the rest of Europe do not have sizeable gas reserves, with the exception of Norway. Hence, for a small markup in cost, Europe can secure its own energy supply by H2. That is the economic benefit.

[NickW + 2,714]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:35 AM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

Natural gas prices will come down, but with a major producer not delivering through pipe, it will be mostly LNG. LNG prices in Japan (which is an exclusively LNG market) have been fairly constant at a range of USD 5-15 per 1000cuft, or 290kWh. That is between 2-5 ct per kWh. However, you will need to add an extra USD 5 per 1000cuft to cover the CO2 emission rights. That already puts you in the 3-7 ct region. 

Add to that, there is not sufficient LNG tanker capacity in the world to serve Europe. As long as these tankers are not built, gas prices are high.

Ukraine and the rest of Europe do not have sizeable gas reserves, with the exception of Norway. Hence, for a small markup in cost, Europe can secure its own energy supply by H2. That is the economic benefit.

The Crown Estate (UK) are opening up the Celtic Sea for floating wind. Ireland will probably do the same. Huge additional resource there. The UK's reaching the point we need to start building electrolysers as in windy periods we are heading towards being swamped. Over 20GW last weekend. 

[notsonice + 1,255]

1 hour ago, NickW said:

The Crown Estate (UK) are opening up the Celtic Sea for floating wind. Ireland will probably do the same. Huge additional resource there. The UK's reaching the point we need to start building electrolysers as in windy periods we are heading towards being swamped. Over 20GW last weekend. 

Like this one in the Netherlands that was just announced?

 

please note.....The German developer's bid included 600MW of onshore electrolysers for green hydrogen....and subsidy-free

 

RENEWS.BIZ

 

https://renews.biz/offshore-wind

RWE wins 700MW Dutch offshore wind tender

German developer beats off rivals for subsidy-free Hollandse Kust West 7 site

10 November 2022 17:01

RWE has won the tender for the 700MW Hollandse Kust West 7 site in the Dutch North Sea, one of two designated in the 1400MW HKW offshore wind farm zone. 

 

The German developer's bid included 600MW of onshore electrolysers for green hydrogen, 225MW of e-boilers for district heating and industrial applications, batteries and floating solar energy at sea, according to the government.

 

The Hollandse Kust West wind farm zone is located approximately 28.6 nautical miles (53 kilometre) off the west coast of the Netherlands and is expected online by 2026.

“This wind farm will account for about six percent of the current electricity consumption in the Netherlands, around 1 million households," said Minister Climate and Energy Policy of the Netherlands Rob Jetten.  

 

"Wind energy is also very important for companies and industry, which is increasingly replacing fossil fuels and raw materials with electrical applications. In this way we are taking another concrete step towards the goal of 21GW around 2030.”

 

The winner of the second site, Hollandse Kust West 6 will be announced by 15 December this year. 

 

Both wind farms are expected to be commissioned between 2025-2026 and construction will be carried out without subsidy.

 

Applications for the tenders were made between April 14 and May 12, 2022. 

 

Developers that entered the auctions included SSE Renewables, who formed a strategic partnership with Brookfield for its tender, and Vattenfall alongside BASF. 

 

Orsted and TotalEngergies also partnered to put in bids for the two offshore wind leases, as did German developer RWE.

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by notsonice

[Ron Wagner + 706]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:35 AM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

Natural gas prices will come down, but with a major producer not delivering through pipe, it will be mostly LNG. LNG prices in Japan (which is an exclusively LNG market) have been fairly constant at a range of USD 5-15 per 1000cuft, or 290kWh. That is between 2-5 ct per kWh. However, you will need to add an extra USD 5 per 1000cuft to cover the CO2 emission rights. That already puts you in the 3-7 ct region. 

Add to that, there is not sufficient LNG tanker capacity in the world to serve Europe. As long as these tankers are not built, gas prices are high.

Ukraine and the rest of Europe do not have sizeable gas reserves, with the exception of Norway. Hence, for a small markup in cost, Europe can secure its own energy supply by H2. That is the economic benefit.

I disagree. Hydrogen is a waste of extra dollars IMHO. Who is charging the extra 2-5 cents per KWH. or percent? Tankers are being built as are natural gas pipelines. Pipelines are preferable if not from enemies such as Russia.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Ron Wagner

[RichieRich216 + 454]

The formula for the cost of charging an electric car is:

Cost to Charge = (CR / RPK) x CPK

• CR is car range

• RPK is range per kWh

• CPK is cost per kWh

The formula starts by dividing the electric vehicle’s range in miles by its range per kWh. Once EV owners have this number, they can multiply it by their specific cost per kWh to determine how much it costs to charge their electric vehicle.

DEAL WITH IT YOU STUPID GREENIES...

[NickW + 2,714]

On 11/11/2022 at 9:17 PM, RichieRich216 said:

The formula for the cost of charging an electric car is:

Cost to Charge = (CR / RPK) x CPK

• CR is car range

• RPK is range per kWh

• CPK is cost per kWh

The formula starts by dividing the electric vehicle’s range in miles by its range per kWh. Once EV owners have this number, they can multiply it by their specific cost per kWh to determine how much it costs to charge their electric vehicle.

DEAL WITH IT YOU STUPID GREENIES...

Big Wow. One of the great reasons for being a member of a site like this to get first hand access to revelations like this from our resident mathematical geniuses.

In other breaking news. 

Monetary cost per gallon /fuel economy of car  (Mpg) = cost per mile travelled. 

🤣

[NickW + 2,714]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:53 PM, Ron Wagner said:

I disagree. Hydrogen is a waste of extra dollars IMHO. Who is charging the extra 2-5 cents per KWH. or percent? Tankers are being built as are natural gas pipelines. Pipelines are preferable if not from enemies such as Russia.

 

The sensible production of Hydrogen is to soak up surpluses of electricity. The Hydrogen can then be used directly for industrial purposes or making nitrogen fertilisers or blended into the natural gas network. Typically the network can take up to 20% without any major modifications. 

The UK has got a huge offshore program to the point that swithin the next 10 years we will have regular intermittent surpluses. Some we can sell into the European grid but will need to convert some into hydrogen for short term storage. 

[RichieRich216 + 454]

5 hours ago, NickW said:

Big Wow. One of the great reasons for being a member of a site like this to get first hand access to revelations like this from our resident mathematical geniuses.

In other breaking news. 

Monetary cost per gallon /fuel economy of car  (Mpg) = cost per mile travelled. 

🤣

Big Wow, Is that the best you can do, if you’re in you’re 30’s you will not live long enough to see the “ Total Green Revolution “ it really becomes tiresome talking to stupid people!

While you are so concerned about your green bullshit, you will have totally missed what’s coming!

Lack of fresh water, and I have over the last decade been buying ranch properties with all mineral rights! So as you wither and die looking up at a wind mill, my family and generations will be drinking fresh cold, clean water!

You greenies are so far behind you actually think you are ahead….

[RichieRich216 + 454]

You all are like a stopped clock, you are only right twice a day...

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

2 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

You all are like a stopped clock, you are only right twice a day...

Hrmm right twice a day, whereas your clock hands fell off...

[NickW + 2,714]

9 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

Big Wow, Is that the best you can do, if you’re in you’re 30’s you will not live long enough to see the “ Total Green Revolution “ it really becomes tiresome talking to stupid people!

While you are so concerned about your green bullshit, you will have totally missed what’s coming!

Lack of fresh water, and I have over the last decade been buying ranch properties with all mineral rights! So as you wither and die looking up at a wind mill, my family and generations will be drinking fresh cold, clean water!

You greenies are so far behind you actually think you are ahead….

No worries on that account. I live in the UK. 

[NickW + 2,714]

11 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

Big Wow, Is that the best you can do, if you’re in you’re 30’s you will not live long enough to see the “ Total Green Revolution “ it really becomes tiresome talking to stupid people!

While you are so concerned about your green bullshit, you will have totally missed what’s coming!

Lack of fresh water, and I have over the last decade been buying ranch properties with all mineral rights! So as you wither and die looking up at a wind mill, my family and generations will be drinking fresh cold, clean water!

You greenies are so far behind you actually think you are ahead….

Why keep doing it then?

Can't you find another site where fellow members can discuss their make believe purchases - you know  ranches, superyachts , Ferrari's, Luxury islands, private jets..........

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Need to keep the pulse of the people!

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Plus you people are amazing and it shows me why a good, solid education in the right schools are important, additional the contacts you make!

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, RichieRich216 said:

Plus you people are amazing and it shows me why a good, solid education in the right schools are important, additional the contacts you make!

Great to see you acknowledging what has been missing from your life. 

[RichieRich216 + 454]

I have absolutely nothing missing, Try getting a degree in welding or ditch digging, we will always need other ants!

And a side note, I carried all my employees at full salary and health insurance during covid without the use of government funds.

[NickW + 2,714]

6 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

I have absolutely nothing missing, Try getting a degree in welding or ditch digging, we will always need other ants!

And a side note, I carried all my employees at full salary and health insurance during covid without the use of government funds. 

Of course you did........

[Ron Wagner + 706]

On 11/13/2022 at 12:10 PM, NickW said:

The sensible production of Hydrogen is to soak up surpluses of electricity. The Hydrogen can then be used directly for industrial purposes or making nitrogen fertilisers or blended into the natural gas network. Typically the network can take up to 20% without any major modifications. 

The UK has got a huge offshore program to the point that swithin the next 10 years we will have regular intermittent surpluses. Some we can sell into the European grid but will need to convert some into hydrogen for short term storage. 

Good luck with that. Right now we need fossil fuels worldwide.

 

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:53 PM, Ron Wagner said:

I disagree. Hydrogen is a waste of extra dollars IMHO. Who is charging the extra 2-5 cents per KWH. or percent? Tankers are being built as are natural gas pipelines. Pipelines are preferable if not from enemies such as Russia.

 

Europe needs energy independence. And given our limited FF resources, it will have to be something else. Renewable with H2 storage fits that bill. 

Pipelines to Europe: if you look on a map, you notice that do not have any producers (other than Norway, Russia and Algeria) that can pipe it to us. The rest of the global producers are just too far away (e.g., Nigeria or Qatar), or in a too complex area to build a pipeline in the first place.

The current backlog for new LNG carriers is 255, highest it has ever been. Still, this will only increase global capacity by 40%. Also, an order for an additional LNG carrier today will result in delivery in 2026(!). 

"Who is charging the extra 2-5 cents per KWH. or percent?" => 1000 cu ft is 290kWh of energy. So $0.02-$0.05 is cost of nat gas per kWh of energy. Add to that the right to burn this (which is a real cost in EU), and you see where the money goes. 

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

9 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Good luck with that. Right now we need fossil fuels worldwide.

 

We do, but every year we need less.

[NickW + 2,714]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:37 AM, Ron Wagner said:

Good luck with that. Right now we need fossil fuels worldwide.

 

We want to reduce our reliance on imported fuels. This isn't currently an issue for the USA but is for the UK and most of Europe. 

[Ron Wagner + 706]

You should go for the best choice including all options including clean fossil fuels and biofuels. CO2 is NOT a concern IMO. I think criticism is  based on fallacious arguments. There are many far more dangerous pollutants to worry about. I am not a fan of coal but it may be needed for awhile.  

[Ron Wagner + 706]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:35 AM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

Natural gas prices will come down, but with a major producer not delivering through pipe, it will be mostly LNG. LNG prices in Japan (which is an exclusively LNG market) have been fairly constant at a range of USD 5-15 per 1000cuft, or 290kWh. That is between 2-5 ct per kWh. However, you will need to add an extra USD 5 per 1000cuft to cover the CO2 emission rights. That already puts you in the 3-7 ct region. 

Add to that, there is not sufficient LNG tanker capacity in the world to serve Europe. As long as these tankers are not built, gas prices are high.

Ukraine and the rest of Europe do not have sizeable gas reserves, with the exception of Norway. Hence, for a small markup in cost, Europe can secure its own energy supply by H2. That is the economic benefit.

Europe cannot even accept the LNG from the carriers waiting to unload. They will soon have more infrastructure built as prices go down thanks to FLNGs. Pipelines are great but take too long for the current shortage. New ones are planned though. Mainly from The Middle East and Central Asia. 

[Ron Wagner + 706]

On 11/11/2022 at 3:17 PM, RichieRich216 said:

The formula for the cost of charging an electric car is:

Cost to Charge = (CR / RPK) x CPK

• CR is car range

• RPK is range per kWh

• CPK is cost per kWh

The formula starts by dividing the electric vehicle’s range in miles by its range per kWh. Once EV owners have this number, they can multiply it by their specific cost per kWh to determine how much it costs to charge their electric vehicle.

DEAL WITH IT YOU STUPID GREENIES...

Towing RANGE is also inadequate. 

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Do they even have a towing range, LMFAO!