The idea that electric cars are lowering demand is ridiculous.

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, entertenter said:

I remember, during 1980's there were significant efforts to increase ICE efficiency via increasing engine temperature. As the higher the temperature difference between gas expansion start and end, the better the heat engine efficiency. I remember, some examples of these high temperature engines, they were made of ceramics, and were red hot while running. But unfortunately these engines did not last long, and they were prohibitively expensive to produce.
Recent increases in ICE efficiencies are mainly due to usage of better materials and oils, to minimize internal losses and fuel waste minimization using correct fuel amounts and burning it most efficient ways possible. All this, without the need to increase Carnot' cycle efficiency by rising engine temperature.

Also increases NOX output which research is showing has a wide range of chronic health effects beyond respiratory through inflammatory effects. It may affect the circulation and neurological systems increasing the incidence heart disease, strokes, Parkinsons disease, dementia etc. 

[NickW + 2,714]

50 minutes ago, JunoTen said:

It's ridiculous now, but when it happens it will be much less ridiculous...

It's not just electric cars, it's autonomous electric cars. They will be used in services that will be cheaper than buying or owning a car, which will make oil demand plummet.

By the end of this year Waymo will launch a commercial service with no security drivers in Arizona. It will steadily scale up with other actors in play such as GM. The move is supported by China, a country that simply does not want to keep buying oil.

Oil demand will peak in 2020 and fall by 30% by 2030, without considering electric planes.

More in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox5LtxqQNHw

This is a very good point. As populations in urban centres becomes more dense keeping a car is a Royal PITA. Research in the UK showed that where people opted out of car ownership and used car share type schemes overall car usage (mileage travelled) fell 70%. The people opted for other forms of transport - ie public, cycling and walking and the occasional taxi. 

[Refman + 207]

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 11:48 AM, MASTERMIND said:

"The idea that electric cars are lowering demand is ridiculous.  Electric cars haven’t made a dent, just a small scratch in oil demand. Electric cars are only 0.2% of light-duty vehicles, and cost so much only the upper 5% can afford them, even with subsidies."

Interesting that you say the idea is ridiculous, but then admit that they have made a small scratch in oil demand.

EV's are at that point when HDTVs first came on the market, in other words very expensive and hardly putting a dent in overall Tube TV sales, fast forward and here we are 20 years later and you'd be hard pressed to find a old tube style TV anywhere. EV's are coming, and yes they are expensive right now, but as they come down in price they will gain in popularity rapidly. It will take longer to transition than HDTV's but it will happen and sooner than many think

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Refman

[Joe Schindler 0]

8 hours ago, entertenter said:

I remember, during 1980's there were significant efforts to increase ICE efficiency via increasing engine temperature. As the higher the temperature difference between gas expansion start and end, the better the heat engine efficiency. I remember, some examples of these high temperature engines, they were made of ceramics, and were red hot while running. But unfortunately these engines did not last long, and they were prohibitively expensive to produce.
Recent increases in ICE efficiencies are mainly due to usage of better materials and oils, to minimize internal losses and fuel waste minimization using correct fuel amounts and burning it most efficient ways possible. All this, without the need to increase Carnot' cycle efficiency by rising engine temperature.

In the 1960’s; many engines; and especially a high performance engine would have a 160 degree thermostat.  Yes; as fuel became more expensive in the 1970’s; thermostat temperatures rose for hopes of better thermal efficiencies, and reduced emissions.  I would believe that most of the fuel efficiency of a modern engine is delivered by the closed loop fuel injection, better port, and combustion chamber design.

A modern engine will now have a 190 to 210 thermostat; and possibly run even hotter.  While there are fuel/thermal efficiencies to be had; one of the side effects is less cylinder bore taper.  A 200,000 mile high performance engine that gets 3 times the fuel mileage, and still meets emission requirements; of a less powerful, cool running, carbureted, engine is not uncommon.

[Rick Rosenberg + 1]

I think you might want to look at Telsa's stock price. Investors evidently see the electric as a better way for the future.

[SRC + 3]

On 8/25/2018 at 5:11 PM, Tim Turley said:

I think hydrogen is the fuel of the future... 5 minute fillups and no dead weight (battery)... Toyota and BMW are on this, and the Koreans just jumped in.  EV's will be big paperweights in about 10 years when landfills are full of lithium cells leaking out into the groundwater.

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/the-future-still-belongs-to-hydrogen-cars-not-electrics-say-auto-execs

↑This.  At some point the reality that people value productivity over efficiency will establish itself in the market.  BEVs serve, and will continue to serve, a niche market in transportation, but those with expectations of EV dominance will be disappointed.

[Jo Mack + 43]

Electric cars still have the issue of charging times, infrastructure and travel miles between stations.  

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

I love the idea of electric cars mainly because will lower demand for gasoline which in turn will lower the price of gas, increase competence and having a Supercharged v8 or a Porsche 911 with more than 1000hp can become even economical

[REV JUST 0]

The idea that electric cars are lowering demand is ridiculous.

In today days when we are in 2020 many companies launches their electric cars like Hyundai Kona, Tata Nexon Ev and many more but their prices are quite high that a middle class person can'nt afford it.

for more details follow Revjust

 

[James Regan + 1,776]

On 8/26/2018 at 9:26 PM, ronwagn said:

Meanwhile, back in the realities of the near future. Not much will change until gasoline and diesel prices go way up and natural gas will be charging most of the electric vehicles. The smart money is on natural gas for large vehicles but that will wait until gasoline and diesel prices go up. 

@ronwagn 10/10 for your persistence, its like being in central politics I would imagine. Keep it up buddy go with your heart. 👍

[ronwagn + 6,290]

12 hours ago, James Regan said:

@ronwagn 10/10 for your persistence, its like being in central politics I would imagine. Keep it up buddy go with your heart. 👍

Keep me posted on all the electric vehicle advancements especially cost cutting and what China is selling domestically and locally. I am only interested in the best cost/benefit ratio and that includes real pollution. Not sold on CO2 alarmism, but natural gas benefits that too.