E-car Sales Collapse

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:21 PM, TailingsPond said:

"Coal investor and US Senator Joe Manchin III (D-WV) opposes his own political party’s clean energy program."

Surprise! A politician cares more about his own portfolio more than public health and wellness or even his parties interests.  *cough* trumpish *cough* anti-Democracy *cough*

You already posted the stupid rystadenergy link.  Try to keep up with yourself.

 

He cares about rational science policy, unlike the other Demos.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

20 hours ago, Boat said:

That was weird Ron. Of course batteries are better than nat gas in cities because of emissions. Humans breath emissions in large cities. Then the noise pollution. Quiet vehicles are nice. 

Fossil fuel vehicles have reduced toxic emissions to almost zero. Not a problem by any reckoning.

If mufflers are used, the noise is not bad.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Boat + 1,315]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Fossil fuel vehicles have reduced toxic emissions to almost zero. Not a problem by any reckoning.

If mufflers are used, the noise is not bad.

Just added cost. Fossil fuel transportation is being priced out of the market. Car shows will become museums. I grew up wasting gas while drinking beer traveling the back country farm roads. With batteries classic rock will sound better for future generations. 

[Boat + 1,315]

On 7/7/2023 at 11:56 AM, Ecocharger said:

EV buses, as in local route, I assume. Not long-haul.

Hybrids count as fossil fuel vehicles.

The EV vehicles are piling up on the lots, the market for them appears saturated, that niche market appears saturated and at a dead end.

You take long haul buses? Read the Tesla niche will pass 2 million per year soon. The saturated pool of owners appears to be growing. Pickups, semis and a new plant in Mexico will add considerably to the saturation. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,542]

8 hours ago, Boat said:

Just added cost. Fossil fuel transportation is being priced out of the market. Car shows will become museums. I grew up wasting gas while drinking beer traveling the back country farm roads. With batteries classic rock will sound better for future generations. 

Boat openly stating the depth of your god given intellect is both amusing and illuminating. Whatever you are or pretend to be I might suggest you think deeply about your thought processes. It would be quite apparent you are challenged.

LMAO is that your perception of the average U.S. citizen? Hmm then there is a old song done by John Mellancamp... While painting a romantic picture of US lifestyle there was quite a personal price to be paid. Of which you have absolutely no comprehension of. Some paid with blood we all paid with sweat&tears...these things will not go quietly into the night.

That's when a smoke was a smoke
And groovin' was groovin'
And dancin' meant everything
We were young and we were improvin'
Laughin', laughin' with our friends
Holdin' hands meant somethin' baby
Outside the club, cherry bomb
Our hearts were really thumpin'
Say yeah yeah yeah
Say yeah yeah yeah

Edited July 10, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

19 hours ago, Boat said:

Just added cost. Fossil fuel transportation is being priced out of the market. Car shows will become museums. I grew up wasting gas while drinking beer traveling the back country farm roads. With batteries classic rock will sound better for future generations. 

Right now, EVs are piling up unsold on the car sales lots, that market is now saturated and will remain a niche market. going forward.

No one really wants an EV. Some people pretend to like them. Like the proverbial old remedy of castor oil.

EVs are the new form of societal self-flagellation.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Boat + 1,315]

13 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Boat openly stating the depth of your god given intellect is both amusing and illuminating. Whatever you are or pretend to be I might suggest you think deeply about your thought processes. It would be quite apparent you are challenged.

LMAO is that your perception of the average U.S. citizen? Hmm then there is a old song done by John Mellancamp... While painting a romantic picture of US lifestyle there was quite a personal price to be paid. Of which you have absolutely no comprehension of. Some paid with blood we all paid with sweat&tears...these things will not go quietly into the night.

That's when a smoke was a smoke
And groovin' was groovin'
And dancin' meant everything
We were young and we were improvin'
Laughin', laughin' with our friends
Holdin' hands meant somethin' baby
Outside the club, cherry bomb
Our hearts were really thumpin'
Say yeah yeah yeah
Say yeah yeah yeah

I worked 12hrs a day swing shift in a factory for 23 years straight. You couldn’t handle the romantic life of working, paying taxes and being personally self sustained. I grew up among pot bellied, red neck beer drinkers. I drank and hit the work out center. I was woke bailing hay at 14. Your story book leftist rants have no clue. I had a high school diploma yet worked my way to production manager. I didn’t talk about making America great. I made it great. Those punk politicians don’t know work or what’s best. They know bribes and kissing butt. Blue sky and clean water is anti Putin pro normal thinking. Power over people can’t compete with commonsense. 

[specinho + 440]

On 7/4/2023 at 3:40 AM, notsonice said:

 

still having a math problem????

Cox Automotive is forecasting U.S. EV sales to surpass 1 million units for the first time in 2023, and through the first half, EV sales are very much on course Sales of pure battery electric vehicles are forecast to reach nearly 500,000 units in the first half, up from 355,000 a year earlier.

EV inventory across the U.S. is estimated to be above 90,000 units for the first time

 

inventory of 90,000 and sales of 90,000 EVs per month means a 30 day supply.......

If someone tells you the earth is flat .....do you believe them or do you actually figure it out that the earth is not flat and you move on????????

 

Only a million globally? 😯

It is important to check what is posted by Ecocharger before you rebutted ..... Average sale of ice per month in the USA alone surpassing 15 millions... '-'

[specinho + 440]

On 7/7/2023 at 3:35 PM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

EV buses have been the only ones coming on the road where I live. They charge at the terminus, as the driver takes a coffee. Seems to work.

I happen to drive a plug-in hybrid. 

The latest comment seems to be favouring hybrid... This is said to be able to reduce the need for batteries and limited minerals required... 

[Rob Plant + 2,635]

On 6/29/2023 at 12:37 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Otherwise they are just expensive unreliable prone to breaking JUNK.

Ive got one, its never broken down or even had a fault of any kind in 3 years nor did the 2 before that one, all the other people at work (approx 50) with hybrids have never had an issue in the last 5 years. There has been an issue with a model 3 Tesla that just fried itself but no breakdowns with hybrids. There have been loads of breakdowns with ICE vehicles though in that same time period.

Yes they are circa £5-10K more to buy but running costs are way lower. In fact if I'm just commuting to work I plug in there and it literally costs me nothing at all fuel wise. I am not ready to go full EV yet as I still have range anxiety and prefer the convenience of refuelling a hybrid compared to an EV on a long journey.

If youve never driven a hybrid then try it, it might surprise you.

Refuelling costs for EV's below

So a Ford Mustang Mach E costs £8.16 to refuel, if it was an ICE that did 40MPG it would cost circa £50.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/electric-cars/cost-to-charge-an-ev/#:~:text=Home%3A costs are £0.12-£0.41 per kilowatt-hour (kWh)%2C plus,are the more expensive providers in the market).

With EV's there are far less parts than an ICE so far LESS likely to breakdown, they are also way cheaper to service and to run.

Theres a lot to like, but personally I'm not quite there yet.

[Rob Plant + 2,635]

On 6/29/2023 at 6:18 PM, Ecocharger said:

Here is where reality hits the pavement.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Soaring-UK-Power-Prices-Make-Gasoline-Cars-Cheaper-Than-EVs.html

"Rising electricity prices in the UK have made gasoline and diesel cars cheaper to use than electric vehicles charged at rapid public chargers.

While drivers who are able to charge their EVs at home are still making significant savings, public charging infrastructure is more expensive.

Higher electricity prices and insufficient charging infrastructure in the UK could hinder electric vehicle adoption."

Rapid public chargers are exhorbitant and only fools would charge there.

Home charging is very cheap, approx 1/5 of the cost of refuelling an ICE

https://www.parkers.co.uk/electric-cars/cost-to-charge-an-ev/#:~:text=Home%3A costs are £0.12-£0.41 per kilowatt-hour (kWh)%2C plus,are the more expensive providers in the market).

[Rob Plant + 2,635]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:57 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Meanwhile my rental house(2000sq ft) NG bill was a mere $100 in winter in Northern high altitude Colorado.

Ahhh that explains your inability to comprehend most things, lack of oxygen to the brain, if you have one.

[Rob Plant + 2,635]

On 7/8/2023 at 5:00 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

The real reason the Green Toys are being cast aside..Substantial only with high cash govt cash flow, and Manchin has tightened the purse strings. 

Joe Manchin the Green Soup Nazi..No More Cash For You! Absolutely Unbelievable.

https://electrek.co/2022/07/14/joe-manchin-sabotaging-us-clean-energy-plan/

The real reason Joe Manchin is sabotaging the US clean energy plan [update]

https://www.rystadenergy.com/news/ev-sales-collapse-as-subsidies-and-tax-credits-come-to-an-abrupt-halt

EV sales collapse as subsidies and tax credits come to an abrupt halt

01. March 2023

 

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Press release

01. March 2023

EV sales collapse as subsidies and tax credits come to an abrupt halt

 

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The global electric vehicle (EV) market is reeling from one of the most dramatic collapses in monthly sales to date, with Rystad Energy research showing that only 672,000 units were sold in January, almost half of December 2022 sales and a mere 3% year-on-year increase over January 2022. The EV market share among all passenger car sales also tumbled to 14% in January, well down on the 23% seen in December.

EV sales have been on a relatively consistent upward trajectory in recent years – aside from periods impacted by Covid-19 pandemic-related supply chain issues – and a significant collapse in sales is worrying news for the industry. Tax credits and government subsidies have propped up the EV market to date as countries identify passenger car fleet electrification as a core tactic for meeting net-zero emissions goals, but the reduction or removal of these subsidies this year has dampened consumer sentiment. Automakers are now scrambling to reverse the downward spiral and salvage the market in 2023.

The automotive market is usually cyclical, with sales taking a hit after new subsidy rules come into effect at the start of each year, followed by a gradual recovery. However, the cuts in January this year hit harder than normal, triggering this dramatic collapse. The ramifications of this will be long-lasting and will impact sales through the first quarter of the year and potentially the rest of 2023.

EV subsidies in many European countries and mainland China were sliced at the start of the year, and a return of any significance is highly unlikely in the immediate future. One ray of hope for the global outlook is the US market, which is just beginning its electrification journey and rolling out tax credits thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act. The US was the only major market that saw an increase in both EV sales and market share year-on-year, although its contribution to the global total is still relatively minimal.

The sands are shifting for the global EV market. Consumer appetite for electric cars remains strong, but it’s clear that tax credits and subsidies still play a significant role in convincing consumers to make the switch. Carmakers may have no option but to respond with reduced prices. 

Abhishek Murali, clean tech analyst, Rystad Energy

Learn more with Rystad Energy’s low-carbon solutions.

China, the largest EV market globally, experienced a near 50% cut in EV sales in January 2023 compared to the prior month, but the year-over-year change was relatively flat due to the affinity of consumers for cheaper domestic-made models. The Chinese Association of Automotive Manufacturers forecasts a slowing of sales momentum this year, predicting around 8 million EV sales this year. We expect slow sales to continue through the first quarter, but CATL’s announcement of a price cut in battery cells for automotive offtakers will help boost sales again.

Although there was a marginal year-on-year growth in EV sales in Europe last month, market performance has been grim, with many countries showing a steep drop in EV sales from December 2022. With EV subsidies coming to an end, many consumers brought forward their purchases from the first quarter of 2023 to December 2022, leading to a massive spike in purchases before the end of the year. Widespread subsidy reductions will have a lasting impact on sales activity, but automakers will not tolerate this weakening for long – Tesla is already testing their pricing limits, offering a massive discount, triggering a large volume of pre-orders.

Germany have seen a steep falloff in sales and market share. Sales in Germany dropped about a third in January compared to 2022, totaling only 27,000 for the month. Market share in the country also fell off a cliff – after EVs accounted for 55% of all car sales in December 2022, the market share fell to just 15%. Elsewhere in Europe, the EV market share in the UK halved from about 40% to 20% month-to-month and from 50% to 24% in the Netherlands. This downward trend is replicated across much of Europe and will be giving automakers sleepless nights.

Norway experienced the worst monthly passenger car sales in over 60 years, with just 1,860 vehicles sold, including EVs. Electric cars accounted for 76.3% of those sales, totaling 1,419 units. That market share was also the lowest and dipped below 80% for the first time in two years. A slew of new taxes have contributed to this, and battery electric vehicles are now impacted by two new taxes that will negatively impact sales.

 

 

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/ev-tax-credit-electric-vehicle-tax-credit

The EV tax credit was extended and revamped under the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, which means that people buying vehicles though 2032 may be eligible for these benefits. However, there may be some hiccups for consumers as the changes roll out this year.

As of April 2023, electric vehicles have to meet new manufacturing standards requiring batteries and critical minerals to be at least partially sourced from the U.S. And there are other changes to account for, including income thresholds and price caps.

While these latest rules may complicate your choices under the EV tax credit, the overall program is expected to result in more people using the benefit over time. The White House has estimated that credit could save taxpayers up to $950 per year.

^[1]

Here's what you need to know about the federal tax incentives for electric vehicles, a summary of changes courtesy of the legislation, and an overview of which cars may qualify for the new credit according to the IRS.

 

Electric car sales break new records with momentum expected to continue through 2023

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary

November and December of 2022 saw demand distortions by coming reductions of EV grants in Europe and China and the IRA in the US for 2023. Demand for EVs and ICEs alike were pulled into 2022 or pushed into 2023. We expect irregular EV sales and shares in several countries for Q1 of 2023. For the full year of 2023, we expect sales of 14,3 million EVs, a growth of 36 % over 2022, with BEVs reaching 11 million units and PHEVs 3,3 million units. By the end of 2023 we expect 40 million EVs in operation, counting light vehicles, 73 % are BEVs and 27 % PHEVs.

https://www.ev-volumes.com/

[Rob Plant + 2,635]

On 7/8/2023 at 5:40 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Focus: 300,000 companies in Germany are on the verge of bankruptcy

 

One in ten German companies has encountered financial problems and is at risk of bankruptcy.

Currently, the European Union is faced with an energy crisis, provoking inflation and rising energy costs.

 

https://runews24.ru/eng/world/17/11/2022/d66ae69e83625be92fb62567a4959046

 

Germany to close all 84 of its coal-fired power plants, will rely primarily on renewable energy

The plan includes some $45 billion in spending to mitigate the pain in coal regions.

45 BILLION GONE WITH THE WIND.

I LEAVE WITH YOU.

 

https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-coal-power-20190126-story.html

Yes the reeason for this was very high energy costs ie NG went sky high due to the war in Ukraine NOTHING to do with renewables at all, but actually all to do with Germany's dependence on Russian NG

[TailingsPond + 476]

First Ford F-150 Lightning Trucks Arrive At US Army’s Fort Carson (msn.com)

"For now, 25 units of Ford’s electric pickup have been delivered to the base, and they’ll be used for maintenance and ongoing construction around Fort Carson, but hundreds more EVs are set to arrive, as the US Army looks to replace all of its cars, trucks, vans, and other light-duty non-tactical vehicles across its installations with electric alternatives by 2027."

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

9 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Ive got one, its never broken down or even had a fault of any kind in 3 years nor did the 2 before that one, all the other people at work (approx 50) with hybrids have never had an issue in the last 5 years. There has been an issue with a model 3 Tesla that just fried itself but no breakdowns with hybrids. There have been loads of breakdowns with ICE vehicles though in that same time period.

Yes they are circa £5-10K more to buy but running costs are way lower. In fact if I'm just commuting to work I plug in there and it literally costs me nothing at all fuel wise. I am not ready to go full EV yet as I still have range anxiety and prefer the convenience of refuelling a hybrid compared to an EV on a long journey.

If youve never driven a hybrid then try it, it might surprise you.

Refuelling costs for EV's below

So a Ford Mustang Mach E costs £8.16 to refuel, if it was an ICE that did 40MPG it would cost circa £50.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/electric-cars/cost-to-charge-an-ev/#:~:text=Home%3A costs are £0.12-£0.41 per kilowatt-hour (kWh)%2C plus,are the more expensive providers in the market).

With EV's there are far less parts than an ICE so far LESS likely to breakdown, they are also way cheaper to service and to run.

Theres a lot to like, but personally I'm not quite there yet.

In other words, you drive a fossil fuel vehicle, just like every other rational human being.

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

7 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

First Ford F-150 Lightning Trucks Arrive At US Army’s Fort Carson (msn.com)

"For now, 25 units of Ford’s electric pickup have been delivered to the base, and they’ll be used for maintenance and ongoing construction around Fort Carson, but hundreds more EVs are set to arrive, as the US Army looks to replace all of its cars, trucks, vans, and other light-duty non-tactical vehicles across its installations with electric alternatives by 2027."

"Non-tactical light-duty vehicles across installations". in other words, no battlefield trucks or tanks or aircraft or trains or ships or anything which would not be planted in a close location usage.

Some joke.

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

8 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Electric car sales break new records with momentum expected to continue through 2023

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary

November and December of 2022 saw demand distortions by coming reductions of EV grants in Europe and China and the IRA in the US for 2023. Demand for EVs and ICEs alike were pulled into 2022 or pushed into 2023. We expect irregular EV sales and shares in several countries for Q1 of 2023. For the full year of 2023, we expect sales of 14,3 million EVs, a growth of 36 % over 2022, with BEVs reaching 11 million units and PHEVs 3,3 million units. By the end of 2023 we expect 40 million EVs in operation, counting light vehicles, 73 % are BEVs and 27 % PHEVs.

https://www.ev-volumes.com/

We will see, but as of now the EVs are piling up on sales lots with no buyers.

[notsonice + 1,080]

11 hours ago, specinho said:

Only a million globally? 😯

It is important to check what is posted by Ecocharger before you rebutted ..... Average sale of ice per month in the USA alone surpassing 15 millions... '-'

that is a million  EVs in the US per year ....15 million globally evs sales in 2023

 

from Cox......Cox Automotive is forecasting U.S. EV sales to surpass 1 million units for the first time in 2023

do you live under a rock?????? can you read US????

Average sale of ice per month in the USA alone surpassing 15 millions?????? per month????

dude , what are you smoking???

if you are going to post at least take a few minutes and find out facts ....not your BS fake facts

15 million new ice vehicles sold every month in the US?????..... you obviously have no clue what you are babbling about

Edited July 11, 2023 by notsonice

[TailingsPond + 476]

58 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

"Non-tactical light-duty vehicles across installations". in other words, no battlefield trucks or tanks or aircraft or trains or ships or anything which would not be planted in a close location usage.

Some joke.

I am certain there are huge numbers of domestic, non-combat vehicles in the military. 

Secondly, if every facility has charging stations, and there is no obligation to use the same vehicle, recharging time is no issue.  Drop off food, equipment, people, etc. plug in the van, grab a fresh one, carry on. 

Lastly, reducing pressure on war-time oil reserves is a strategic advantage.

The real joke is you continuing to ignore mounting evidence that the EV transition is in full swing. 

 

 

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

5 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

I am certain there are huge numbers of domestic, non-combat vehicles in the military. 

Secondly, if every facility has charging stations, and there is no obligation to use the same vehicle, recharging time is no issue.  Drop off food, equipment, people, etc. plug in the van, grab a fresh one, carry on. 

Lastly, reducing pressure on war-time oil reserves is a strategic advantage.

The real joke is you continuing to ignore mounting evidence that the EV transition is in full swing. 

 

 

EVs are piling up on the sales lots begging for customers. The party is over.

[TailingsPond + 476]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs are piling up on the sales lots begging for customers.

Like that's never happened with ICE.

How soon you forget the collapse of Detroit and massive government bailouts to the ICE auto industry.

[TailingsPond + 476]

US: Mercedes-Benz Electric Car Sales Skyrocketed In Q2 2023 (msn.com)

In Q2, Mercedes-Benz's all-electric car sales amounted to 11,927 (up 509 percent year-over-year), which is noticeable 15.4 percent of the brand's total car sales.

This strong growth is associated with the introduction of several new models - specifically the locally produced EQE SUV and EQS SUV, which are the two most popular BEVs.

Dimitris Psillakis, President and CEO of Mercedes-Benz USA said:

"We are very encouraged by the exponential demand of our electric vehicle line-up and Top-End offerings. Especially, the EQS SUV and EQE SUV, both proudly manufactured in Alabama, continue to advance our electric offensive and welcome new customers to the Mercedes-Benz brand."

[Ecocharger + 1,382]

57 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

US: Mercedes-Benz Electric Car Sales Skyrocketed In Q2 2023 (msn.com)

In Q2, Mercedes-Benz's all-electric car sales amounted to 11,927 (up 509 percent year-over-year), which is noticeable 15.4 percent of the brand's total car sales.

This strong growth is associated with the introduction of several new models - specifically the locally produced EQE SUV and EQS SUV, which are the two most popular BEVs.

Dimitris Psillakis, President and CEO of Mercedes-Benz USA said:

"We are very encouraged by the exponential demand of our electric vehicle line-up and Top-End offerings. Especially, the EQS SUV and EQE SUV, both proudly manufactured in Alabama, continue to advance our electric offensive and welcome new customers to the Mercedes-Benz brand."

So 85 % of Mercedes Benz production is fossil fuel vehicles. That is a huge addition to the fossil fuel fleet going forward.

For Europe as a whole 87% of new car sales are fossil fuel.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 476]

Rome wasn't built in a day.