E-car Sales Collapse

[turbguy + 1,544]

5 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

California is getting its power from other states and blocking development at home.

Strange how California Imports about 10% of power in the evening,night and morning, and then EXPORTS power during the day... 

Even ERCOT (Texas) "gets power from" other states...

CALISO above (negative=export), ERCOT below (negative=import).

Edited July 25, 2023 by turbguy

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

Show me where dollars leave taxpayer's and rate payer's pockets and are directed toward a citizen's vehicle purchase.

What rock have you been living under?

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

7 hours ago, turbguy said:

Show me where dollars leave taxpayer's and rate payer's pockets and are directed toward a citizen's vehicle purchase.

Turbguy lay off the houch, it's not for everyone....just saying.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

7 hours ago, turbguy said:

Strange how California Imports about 10% of power in the evening,night and morning, and then EXPORTS power during the day... 

Even ERCOT (Texas) "gets power from" other states...

CALISO above (negative=export), ERCOT below (negative=import).

You bring up quite a interesting play...is California buying energy @ low fossil rates and selling it green power at above market green rates. LMAO this will be interesting.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,544]

7 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

What rock have you been living under?

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf

That's a tax credit.

You now, the same stuff developers and other businesses utilize all the time.

Show me where dollars get collected then re-directed to a private vehicle purchase.

Edited July 25, 2023 by turbguy

[turbguy + 1,544]

3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

You bring up quite a interesting play...is California buying energy @ low fossil rates and selling it green power at above market green rates. LMAO this will be interesting.

Yeah, I'm sure the market plays some role. That could be quite profitable, selling power that consumes zero fuel, consumes almost zero water, and requires less "heads" per MWh at elevated fossil fuel market rates.

And ERCOT?  It's getting about 20 to 25% of it's generation from internal renewables these days. 

What a bargain!

Edited July 25, 2023 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, turbguy said:

That's a tax credit.

You now, the same stuff developers and other businesses utilize all the time.

Show me where dollars get collected then re-directed to a private vehicle purchase.

It's called "taxes", which subsidize the purchases of EVs. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, turbguy said:

Yeah, I'm sure the market plays some role. That could be quite profitable, selling power that consumes zero fuel, consumes almost zero water, and requires less "heads" per MWh at elevated fossil fuel market rates.

And ERCOT?  It's getting about 20 to 25% of it's generation from internal renewables these days. 

What a bargain!

20-25%? So where does it get the other 75%?

[turbguy + 1,544]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

20-25%? So where does it get the other 75%?

Fossil and Nuc.

Both more expensive.

Those ERCOT renewables are equal to about 20 large nuc units. That ain't small.

Edited July 25, 2023 by turbguy

[turbguy + 1,544]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

It's called "taxes", which subsidize the purchases of EVs. Wake up and smell the coffee.

It ain't "taxes".

It's a credit on otherwise-owed taxes (if you make enough to pay any).

You know, just like this stuff for developers:

• Historic Rehabilitation Tax Credit: This credit provides a 20% tax credit for the cost of rehabilitating historic buildings.
• New Markets Tax Credit: This credit provides a 39% tax credit for investments in low-income communities.
• Energy Tax Credits: These credits provide tax deductions or credits for the installation of energy-efficient appliances and equipment.
• Brownfields Tax Credits: These credits provide tax deductions or credits for the cleanup of contaminated land.

AND:

• Deduction for intangible drilling costs: This deduction allows oil and gas producers to deduct 100% of the costs associated with drilling a well in the year incurred.
• Percentage depletion allowance: This allowance allows oil and gas producers to deduct a percentage of their gross income from oil and gas production each year, regardless of how much they have invested.  The percentage depletion rate for oil and gas is about 15%, with a bunch of other caveats.
• Domestic manufacturing deduction: This deduction allows oil and gas producers to deduct 6% of their taxable income derived from qualified domestic production activities.
• Research and development tax credit: This credit is available for oil and gas producers who engage in research and development activities that improve the efficiency or environmental impact of their operations.

Again, show me where any of taxpayer dollars are directly sent to a vehicle purchaser (ignoring the military and other government-owned vehicles).

Edited July 25, 2023 by turbguy

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

It ain't "taxes".

Again, show me where any of taxpayer dollars are directly sent to a vehicle purchaser (ignoring the military and other government-owned vehicles).

 

Ah, so in your make believe world, stealing from your children and grand children isn't "directly sent", as you selfishly jack up the national debt... Brilliant...

Definition shavers like you should be shoved into stocks and pelted with overripe produce for lying. 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 hours ago, turbguy said:

It ain't "taxes".

It's a credit on otherwise-owed taxes (if you make enough to pay any).

You know, just like this stuff for developers:

• Historic Rehabilitation Tax Credit: This credit provides a 20% tax credit for the cost of rehabilitating historic buildings.
• New Markets Tax Credit: This credit provides a 39% tax credit for investments in low-income communities.
• Energy Tax Credits: These credits provide tax deductions or credits for the installation of energy-efficient appliances and equipment.
• Brownfields Tax Credits: These credits provide tax deductions or credits for the cleanup of contaminated land.

AND:

• Deduction for intangible drilling costs: This deduction allows oil and gas producers to deduct 100% of the costs associated with drilling a well in the year incurred.
• Percentage depletion allowance: This allowance allows oil and gas producers to deduct a percentage of their gross income from oil and gas production each year, regardless of how much they have invested.  The percentage depletion rate for oil and gas is about 15%, with a bunch of other caveats.
• Domestic manufacturing deduction: This deduction allows oil and gas producers to deduct 6% of their taxable income derived from qualified domestic production activities.
• Research and development tax credit: This credit is available for oil and gas producers who engage in research and development activities that improve the efficiency or environmental impact of their operations.

Again, show me where any of taxpayer dollars are directly sent to a vehicle purchaser (ignoring the military and other government-owned vehicles).

Doesn't matter if they are directly sent, it all factors into the final bill paid by the purchaser.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Ah, so in your make believe world, stealing from your children and grand children isn't "directly sent", as you selfishly jack up the national debt... Brilliant...

Definition shavers like you should be shoved into stocks and pelted with overripe produce for lying. 

The theory which Biden & Co. have accepted is that nobody pays for it, the money is simply printed and used to pay off the national debt servicing costs. Of course, this causes hyperinflation, higher interest rates and ultimately recession. So in the end everyone pays for this folly with a dysfunctional economy.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[turbguy + 1,544]

3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Ah, so in your make believe world, stealing from your children and grand children isn't "directly sent", as you selfishly jack up the national debt... Brilliant...

Definition shavers like you should be shoved into stocks and pelted with overripe produce for lying. 

So, you actually cannot show me one instance.

Just as I thought...

Since when hasn't the national debt increased?

The largest percentage increase in the national debt occurred under Franklin D. Roosevelt. The national debt increased by 2,859% during Roosevelt's presidency. This was due to the Great Depression and World War II.

The second largest percentage increase in the national debt occurred under Lyndon B. Johnson. The national debt increased by 1,722% during Johnson's presidency. This was due to the Vietnam War (what a waste of blood and treasure).

The third largest percentage increase in the national debt occurred under George W. Bush. The national debt increased by 1,058% during Bush's presidency. This was due to the "War on Terror" and the "Great Recession". Something about "too big to fail" comes to mind.

The national debt was $19.95 trillion when #45 took office on January 20, 2017, and it reached $27.75 trillion when he left office on January 19, 2021.  That's about 25% of the current $31 trillion in national debt.  AND, no war!

The current president, Joe Biden, has seen the national debt increase by 8.79% since he took office.  Whew!  FINALLY!!

You chose your flavor of statistics, I'll choose mine

Edited July 26, 2023 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

23 minutes ago, turbguy said:

So, you actually cannot show me one instance.

Just as I thought...

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0923

Treasury Releases Initial Information on Electric Vehicle Tax Credit Under Newly Enacted Inflation Reduction Act

Today’s guidance marks a first step in the Biden Administration’s implementation of Inflation Reduction Act tax credits to lower costs for families and make electric vehicles more affordable

 

It's almost time for a Forest Gump meme.

Then again I call RACISM FASCISM let me see there is something I'm missing...OH WHITE PRIVILEGE. Yet still that does not get it...Turbguy why no money for a new RV tow vehicle ? A brother needs some love to.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,544]

6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0923

Treasury Releases Initial Information on Electric Vehicle Tax Credit Under Newly Enacted Inflation Reduction Act

Today’s guidance marks a first step in the Biden Administration’s implementation of Inflation Reduction Act tax credits to lower costs for families and make electric vehicles more affordable

 

It's almost time for a Forest Gump meme.

Then again I call RACISM FASCISM let me see there is something I'm missing...OH WHITE PRIVILEGE.

Nope.

STILL a tax credit.

Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service released guidance and FAQs with information on how the North America final assembly requirement will work so consumers can determine what vehicles are eligible and claim a credit of up to $7,500 after their purchase.

That assumes you actually were to pay at least $7500 of tax AFTER all the other loopholes.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

21 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Nope.

STILL a tax credit.

Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service released guidance and FAQs with information on how the North America final assembly requirement will work so consumers can determine what vehicles are eligible and claim a credit of up to $7,500 after their purchase.

That assumes you actually were to pay at least $7500 of tax AFTER all the other loopholes.

Lol your so amusing. Below point of lease cash disbursement, contractual obligation from the US government.

The easiest way to get a $7,500 tax credit for an electric vehicle? Consider leasing.

https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicle-lease-buy-cheaper-tax-credit-6cfe4101ad04bd993c634d860ec5598b

Capitalized Cost Reduction: What it is, How it Works

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalized-cost-reduction.asp

Edited July 26, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,544]

37 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Lol your so amusing. Below point of lease cash disbursement, contractual obligation from the US government.

The easiest way to get a $7,500 tax credit for an electric vehicle? Consider leasing.

https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicle-lease-buy-cheaper-tax-credit-6cfe4101ad04bd993c634d860ec5598b

STILL a tax credit.

To the DEALER! 

Who "might" share a portion with the "leasee", if they even know about it...

You wanna DIRECT CASH payment?  What about #45's CARES Act, which included direct payments of up to $1,200 for individuals and $2,400 for married couples filing jointly (the payments were based on adjusted gross income,  with lower-income earners receiving larger payments)?  This even went to taxpayers with ZERO tax liability! Remember receiving a check in the mail out of the blue? Did you get yours?  I donated mine to local non-profits.

Such recent history, already forgotten.  Pity

"Keep trying" comes to mind.

Edited July 26, 2023 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

24 minutes ago, turbguy said:

STILL a tax credit.

To the DEALER! 

Who "might" share a portion with the "leasee", if they even know about it...

You wanna DIRECT CASH payment?  What about #45's CARES Act, which included direct payments of up to $1,200 for individuals and $2,400 for married couples filing jointly (the payments were based on adjusted gross income,  with lower-income earners receiving larger payments)?

"Keep trying" comes to 

Which the Customer directly receives contractually as a capitalized cash reduction. It's written in the lease contract.

Frankly that is what drives Tesla and the EV market You actually drive the car free for two yrs. Only foolish people buy to own. Until musk got a attitude.

https://www.thestreet.com/technology/musk-and-tesla-make-a-change-their-customers-wont-like

But Musk and Tesla have just redistributed the cards once again. It is no longer possible to purchase your leased car at the end of the lease since April 15.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,544]

15 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Which the Customer directly receives contractually as a capitalized cash reduction. It's written in the lease contract.

Show me legislative language, that it is REQUIRED to show that tax credit into a lease contract.

Leased EVs do not have to include dealer tax credits into the leasing contract. The dealer may choose to pass on the tax credit to the lessee, but they are not required to do so.

The reason for this is that the tax credit is a federal tax credit, and it is only available to the person, or entity, that purchases the vehicle. In the case of a lease, the lessee does not purchase the vehicle, so they are not eligible for the tax credit.

However, the dealer may choose to pass on the tax credit to the lessee as a way to make the lease more attractive. This is especially common if the dealer is trying to lease a less popular EV model.

Edited July 26, 2023 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

5 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Show me a contract, or even legislative language, that is REQUIRED to show that tax credit into a lease contract.

Every lease that gets a capitalized cost reduction. You see that's what drives the payments down Turbguy. At about a rate of $50 per $1000. 

You see a true market lease is somewhere north of 800 a month, on a 60k car.

[turbguy + 1,544]

26 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Every lease that gets a capitalized cost reduction. You see that's what drives the payments down Turbguy. At about a rate of $50 per $1000. 

You see a true market lease is somewhere north of 800 a month, on a 60k car.

ONLY if the dealer (you know, the purchaser) chooses to do so.  The AP article you quoted a hour ago even says so!

Show me the legislative language that requires it even be mentioned in a leasing contract.

The higher oil prices go, the more attractive an EV becomes.

To REALLY quash EV's get the gasoline price down to, say, $1 a gallon for a year or three.

Edited July 26, 2023 by turbguy
's get

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

14 hours ago, turbguy said:

So, you actually cannot show me one instance.

Just as I thought...

Since when hasn't the national debt increased?

So, you move the goalposts and pretend money is not money and magically appears.... typical lying perversion of a certain political class. 

Should never have gotten rid of stockades.  Can't bring them back soon enough.  Drum a little honor into the perverts.

[turbguy + 1,544]

15 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

So, you move the goalposts and pretend money is not money and magically appears.... typical lying perversion of a certain political class. 

Should never have gotten rid of stockades.  Can't bring them back soon enough.  Drum a little honor into the perverts.

So, you don't show me one instance, either.

Money did and DOES "magically appear".  At one time in human history, there wasn't any.

Where did it arise from?

A promise of value.

A confidence game at work (that seems to work well for the US dollar).

Not that money is bad, Without this means of convenient commerce, the economy would get REALLY complicated.

Money comes from a variety of sources, including:

• The government: The government can create money by printing more banknotes and coins. However, this is not the main way that money is created in most economies.
• Commercial banks: Commercial banks create money when they make loans. When a bank makes a loan, it credits the borrower's account with the amount of the loan. This new deposit is then available for the borrower to spend, which creates more money in circulation.
• Foreign exchange markets: When countries trade with each other, they exchange their currencies. This can also create new money, as the amount of one currency that is exchanged for another is created out of thin air (like magic)!

Edited July 26, 2023 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

14 hours ago, turbguy said:

ONLY if the dealer (you know, the purchaser) chooses to do so.  The AP article you quoted a hour ago even says so!

Show me the legislative language that requires it even be mentioned in a leasing contract.

The higher oil prices go, the more attractive an EV becomes.

To REALLY quash EV's get the gasoline price down to, say, $1 a gallon for a year or three.

It is quite apparent your way out of your wheelhouse. Take sometime to read how financial documents are written.

 

This whole subject is trivial minutia and does not deserve a second look.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open