E-car Sales Collapse

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

17 hours ago, turbguy said:

Nope.

STILL a tax credit.

Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service released guidance and FAQs with information on how the North America final assembly requirement will work so consumers can determine what vehicles are eligible and claim a credit of up to $7,500 after their purchase.

That assumes you actually were to pay at least $7500 of tax AFTER all the other loopholes.

A tax credit is often referred to as a "tax expenditure", because it is a pre-allocation of tax money.

Whether or not the tax money is spent by government before or after it is collected is secondary, it still gets spent.

You do not need to be an Einstein to figure this one out.

 

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It is quite apparent your way out of your wheelhouse. Take sometime to read how financial documents are written.

 

This whole subject is trivial minutia and does not deserve a second look.

 

 

So, you seem to dispute what I have noted.

With zero evidence that a Owner of a leased vehicle is required, by law, to provide all, or any, amount of a tax credit of a leased vehicle to the leasee.

 

[turbguy + 1,544]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

A tax credit is often referred to as a "tax expenditure", because it is a pre-allocation of tax money.

Whether or not the tax money is spent by government before or after it is collected is secondary, it still gets spent.

You do not need to be an Einstein to figure this one out.

 

A tax credit is a dollar for dollar reduction in tax owed.

A tax expenditure is indeed similar as they can reduce the tax owed, but is typically not dollar for dollar.  Limitations on Medical deductions are a good example.

Close, NOT the same.

Edited July 26, 2023 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

1 hour ago, turbguy said:

So, you seem to dispute what I have noted.

With zero evidence that a Owner of a leased vehicle is required, by law, to provide all, or any, amount of a tax credit of a leased vehicle to the leasee.

 

Again you demonstrate your ignorance on such topics. Again I urge a deep dive into contractual contracts. Think along the lines of disclosing all money/assets etc used to reach a a agreement. Think disclosure. Below ..a part of the puzzle.

https://insideevs.com/news/664928/tesla-model3-may-get-full-ev-tax-credit-via-loophole/?_gl=1*n3kpp5*_ga*V3N5czFzU2Ytd2lQdnhfbkR2b0pNb095RHBabVN4WUs4c2d3ZjA2VVZLTHlkU1RCd2NoZFFob2tveW9Wa2x5ZA..*_ga_S1VTQEHNME*MTY5MDQwMjAyMS4xLjEuMTY5MDQwMjAyMS4wLjAuMA..

Tesla Model 3 May Get Full US EV Tax Credit Via Loophole

Few EVs can get the full credit, but this leasing loophole is helping make the list just a tad longer.

However, if you're okay with leasing it, you may be able to get the full $7,500, and you won't have to wait until tax time to see the benefit.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,544]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Again you demonstrate your ignorance on such topics. Again I urge a deep dive into contractual contracts. Think along the lines of disclosing all money/assets etc used to reach a a agreement. Think disclosure. Below ..a part of the puzzle.

https://insideevs.com/news/664928/tesla-model3-may-get-full-ev-tax-credit-via-loophole/?_gl=1*n3kpp5*_ga*V3N5czFzU2Ytd2lQdnhfbkR2b0pNb095RHBabVN4WUs4c2d3ZjA2VVZLTHlkU1RCd2NoZFFob2tveW9Wa2x5ZA..*_ga_S1VTQEHNME*MTY5MDQwMjAyMS4xLjEuMTY5MDQwMjAyMS4wLjAuMA..

Tesla Model 3 May Get Full US EV Tax Credit Via Loophole

Few EVs can get the full credit, but this leasing loophole is helping make the list just a tad longer.

However, if you're okay with leasing it, you may be able to get the full $7,500, and you won't have to wait until tax time to see the benefit.

Is there such a thing as a non-contractual contract?  Perhaps a Gentleman's Agreement?

From the AP article YOU quoted..

"...not everyone who leases an EV will receive the tax credit, even if they qualify for it. The automakers and dealers are allowed to decide whether to pass along the tax credit to their customers; they aren’t required to do so".

Edited July 26, 2023 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 hours ago, turbguy said:

there such a thing as a non-contractual contract?  Perhaps a Gentleman's Agreement?

No such thing in a retail/lease agreement. I will let this die here...

As a wise man once said...well kinda..

 I leave the rest with you.

[Michael Sanches + 187]

EV's lead to gun violence. A depressed man sat in his garage with his Tesla running, until it died, instead of him. So, he blew his brains out.

Guns don't kill people. EV's kill people!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Carmakers Join Forces To Develop Fast-Charging Network For EVs

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Carmakers-Join-Forces-To-Develop-Fast-Charging-Network-For-EVs.html

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

31 minutes ago, Michael Sanches said:

EV's lead to gun violence. A depressed man sat in his garage with his Tesla running, until it died, instead of him. So, he blew his brains out.

Guns don't kill people. EV's kill people!

🤣 yeah sure they do, was the guy depressed because he had range anxiety?

Mind you this guy died on this cargo ship when an EV battery caught fire, so it does happen occasionally.

https://news.sky.com/video/one-killed-and-several-injured-in-cargo-ship-fire-off-coast-of-netherlands-12928375

[Michael Sanches + 187]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Carmakers Join Forces To Develop Fast-Charging Network For EVs

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Carmakers-Join-Forces-To-Develop-Fast-Charging-Network-For-EVs.html

Although they won't say who said this. Just trust us. And trust us that our crystal ball that this person is telling the truth is working.

Probably the same person who said that NYC would be underwater years ago.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

23 hours ago, turbguy said:

A tax credit is a dollar for dollar reduction in tax owed.

A tax expenditure is indeed similar as they can reduce the tax owed, but is typically not dollar for dollar.  Limitations on Medical deductions are a good example.

Close, NOT the same.

No, a "tax expenditure" is any reduction of tax which supports a government policy initiative. That includes tax credits. Tax credits or tax expenditures mean a percentage of tax owing is not paid, less tax collected, and less money in the government coffer.

That is a form of government subsidy.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

8 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Carmakers Join Forces To Develop Fast-Charging Network For EVs

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Carmakers-Join-Forces-To-Develop-Fast-Charging-Network-For-EVs.html

"Fast-charging" as in hours spent charging...a misnomer.

[turbguy + 1,544]

4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

No, a "tax expenditure" is any reduction of tax which supports a government policy initiative. That includes tax credits. Tax credits or tax expenditures mean a percentage of tax owing is not paid, less tax collected, and less money in the government coffer.

That is a form of government subsidy.

I agree that it is a form of subsidy.

I disagree that it takes dollars out of any taxpayer's pocket and directs them to others as a direct support of that subsidy..

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

1 hour ago, turbguy said:

I agree that it is a form of subsidy.

I disagree that it takes dollars out of any taxpayer's pocket and directs them to others as a direct support of that subsidy..

 

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:00 PM, turbguy said:

I agree that it is a form of subsidy.

I disagree that it takes dollars out of any taxpayer's pocket and directs them to others as a direct support of that subsidy..

That's what I tell the people I rob. They have $50.00 in their wallet. I only take $40.00. I am subsidizing them $10.00. They should be grateful I am giving them free money!

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:00 PM, turbguy said:

I agree that it is a form of subsidy.

I disagree that it takes dollars out of any taxpayer's pocket and directs them to others as a direct support of that subsidy..

No, the money to support government operations has to come from somewhere, if it does not come from the Green designated sectors, it must come from extra high taxes on fossil fuel sectors. That is the policy direction chosen by misguided Green governments.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

No, the money to support government operations has to come from somewhere, if it does not come from the Green designated sectors, it must come from extra high taxes on fossil fuel sectors. That is the policy direction chosen by misguided Green governments.

It gets keeps getting  deeper and deeper deeper and deeper. GM CEO openly admits she is cost shifting ICE manufacturing profits towards EV production. That is malfeasance on her part, how wall street let's this slip is unknown.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/business/gm-profits-electric-cars.html

G.M.’s Profits From Trucks and S.U.V.s Fuel Its Electric Quest

The automaker earned more than $6 billion last year — money that it will plow into the development of electric and autonomous vehicles.

 

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/disney-accused-of-misleading-investors-about-streaming-revenue

Disney Accused of Misleading Investors on Streaming Revenue (1)

Edited July 30, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

7 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It gets keeps getting  deeper and deeper deeper and deeper. GM CEO openly admits she is cost shifting ICE manufacturing profits towards EV production. That is malfeasance on her part, how wall street let's this slip is unknown.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/business/gm-profits-electric-cars.html

G.M.’s Profits From Trucks and S.U.V.s Fuel Its Electric Quest

The automaker earned more than $6 billion last year — money that it will plow into the development of electric and autonomous vehicles.

Having a long-term vision is not malfeasance in any way.  There is no obligation to maximize profits each quarter. 

You should be thinking "investment in ev's is growing."

Edited July 30, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

10 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Having a long-term vision is not malfeasance in any way.  There is no obligation to maximize profits each quarter. 

You should be thinking "investment in ev's is growing."

Your vision is dead.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chevy-bolt-end-production-gm-vehicle/

GM to stop making Chevrolet Bolt, its best-selling electric vehicle

General Motors is ending production of its Chevrolet Bolt models by the end of this year, the Michigan automaker said Tuesday, adding that the local plant currently tasked with making the Bolt will be converted for the manufacturing of electric pickup trucks. 

 

OH MY..YA DONT SAY...

 

https://www.newsweek.com/dream-40000-electric-truck-dead-1809171

 

The Dream of the $40,000 Electric Truck Is Dead

BY JAKE LINGEMAN ON 6/27/23 AT 5:30 AM EDT

Edited July 30, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

24 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Your vision is dead.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chevy-bolt-end-production-gm-vehicle/

GM to stop making Chevrolet Bolt, its best-selling electric vehicle

General Motors is ending production of its Chevrolet Bolt models by the end of this year, the Michigan automaker said Tuesday, adding that the local plant currently tasked with making the Bolt will be converted for the manufacturing of electric pickup trucks. 

 

OH MY..YA DONT SAY...

 

https://www.newsweek.com/dream-40000-electric-truck-dead-1809171

 

The Dream of the $40,000 Electric Truck Is Dead

BY JAKE LINGEMAN ON 6/27/23 AT 5:30 AM EDT

Nobody wants a Bolt, big deal.  They are still making EV's at that plant...

The second link should tell you EV demand remains high, thereby allowing higher prices.

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

20 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Nobody wants a Bolt, big deal.  They are still making EV's at that plant...

The second link should tell you EV demand remains high, thereby allowing higher prices.

 

Huston have we launched yet?

US: Cadillac Lyriq Sales Improved In Q2 2023 To 1,348

Four quarters of a relatively slow ramp-up closed out with 2,438 total units sold.

 

 

https://insideevs.com/news/675383/us-cadillac-lyriq-sales-2023q2/

Edited July 30, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

4 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

https://insideevs.com/news/675383/us-cadillac-lyriq-sales-2023q2/

 

"In the future, Cadillac is expected to gradually become a fully electrified brand, just like most luxury/premium brands."

Edited July 30, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

16 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

"In the future, Cadillac is expected to gradually become a fully electrified brand, just like most luxury/premium brands."

GM CEO Mary Barra Says Company Aims to Sell 1 Million EVs a Year

Barra believes General Motors can expand beyond the Chevy Bolt to a full, big-selling EV lineup.

BY SEBASTIAN BLANCOPUBLISHED: SEP 21, 2019

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29153501/mary-barra-gm-sell-million-evs/

Edited July 30, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Having a long-term vision is not malfeasance in any way.  There is no obligation to maximize profits each quarter. 

You should be thinking "investment in ev's is growing."

No, that is clear mis-investment and should result in shareholders getting angry...fossil fuel vehicles are profitable to produce, EVs are a money loser and an environmental hazard, they should be reduced or eliminated. 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Your vision is dead.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chevy-bolt-end-production-gm-vehicle/

GM to stop making Chevrolet Bolt, its best-selling electric vehicle

General Motors is ending production of its Chevrolet Bolt models by the end of this year, the Michigan automaker said Tuesday, adding that the local plant currently tasked with making the Bolt will be converted for the manufacturing of electric pickup trucks. 

 

OH MY..YA DONT SAY...

 

https://www.newsweek.com/dream-40000-electric-truck-dead-1809171

 

The Dream of the $40,000 Electric Truck Is Dead

BY JAKE LINGEMAN ON 6/27/23 AT 5:30 AM EDT

Here is the killer quote,

"All indications are that with raw materials and labor price increases, and inflation, prices for electric pickups will stay high for the near future, causing those models to cost considerably more than their gasoline- and diesel-powered counterparts."