E-car Sales Collapse

[Ron Wagner + 707]

14 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

New buses in the EU by fuel type - ACEA - European Automobile Manufacturers' Association

New trucks in the EU by fuel type - ACEA - European Automobile Manufacturers' Association

New vans in the EU by fuel type - ACEA - European Automobile Manufacturers' Association

Some way to go with these, but I expect buses and especially vans to start impacting the EV mix in their respective areas in the very near future.

They will be OK for local routes but the overall cost is a big question for me. Then there is the demand for more electric production and infrastructure etc. 

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

3 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

They will be OK for local routes but the overall cost is a big question for me. Then there is the demand for more electric production and infrastructure etc. 

The reduced maintenance and fuel/energy costs savings are well documented.

Increased demand for electric production and distribution infrastructure is ideal for green electric and construction companies. Lots of money to be made.  Good jobs.  Journeyman electricians makes good money. So do electrical engineers.

Edited September 8, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

7 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Demonstrated proof of concept that EV's will be able to deliver other EV's.

Therefore, your ridiculous theory of "soon [] EVs will no longer be transported to market?" has been disproved.

There are NO such trucks in America, it makes no sense to invest in one. Fossil fuel trucks will continue to dominate.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

14 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs are transported to market largely by fossil fuel vehicles. That will stop soon and EVs will no longer be transported to market?

Many are shipped in that is true, but there is equally a revolution happenning with the shipping industry too. Whether that is SMR's powering ships or ammonia/hydrogen.

Eco the US is way behind in the uptake of EV's compared to Europe and that is totally understandable due to the size of your country and the total lack of infrastructure. I wouldnt buy one in the US thats for sure. However EV's arent going away as you think, and they havent reached saturation levels as is proven by the huge increase yoy of their sales. When countries and US states mandate that no new ICE cars can be purchased within state/country then that will force the populace to buy EV's whether they like it or not. I dont like the policy myself but its happenning all around us in the Western world.

Next you will have cities imposing clean air zones and fines to drive ICE vehicles within them, we already do in the UK. that will force people who live in those areas to go down the EV route also.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

6 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

They will be OK for local routes but the overall cost is a big question for me. Then there is the demand for more electric production and infrastructure etc. 

I agree the initial outlay is more, but over the average time of ownership the running costs are a lot cheaper and actually may well be more competiitive to a small business owner to run an EV van than an ICE one. In the UK this is already the case with taxis, pretty much all main taxi firms use EV vehicles due mainly to the much cheaper running costs.

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

There are NO such trucks in America, it makes no sense to invest in one. Fossil fuel trucks will continue to dominate.

What you are saying is not a response to the question/statement posed.  You framed it as impossible, I clearly showed it was possible and already in progress in certain areas.

"Therefore, your ridiculous theory of "soon [] EVs will no longer be transported to market?" has been disproved."

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

5 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

There are NO such trucks in America, it makes no sense to invest in one. Fossil fuel trucks will continue to dominate.

Youre right for the next decade or maybe 2 but after that not so much!

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

8 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

There are NO such trucks in America, it makes no sense to invest in one. Fossil fuel trucks will continue to dominate.

You are squirming away from the topic. 

Remember, fossil trucks will be banned.  The EV replacements have been designed and some have been made.

There is plenty of reason to invest in them, lower maintenance and fuel costs, plus the big fact that they will be the only trucks permitted.

Feel free to double down on your mistaken fantasy that all the people and money will leave the green states.  Nobody is leaving the nice places to go live in a cornfield next to a redneck with a confederate flag on his lawn.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

9 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Remember, fossil trucks will be banned

Prove it.

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

Just now, Eyes Wide Open said:

Prove it.

Read the thread. Laws have been passed.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

50 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Read the thread. Laws have been passed.

Demonstrate those laws. RUMOR has it has left the building.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

13 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Many are shipped in that is true, but there is equally a revolution happenning with the shipping industry too. Whether that is SMR's powering ships or ammonia/hydrogen.

Eco the US is way behind in the uptake of EV's compared to Europe and that is totally understandable due to the size of your country and the total lack of infrastructure. I wouldnt buy one in the US thats for sure. However EV's arent going away as you think, and they havent reached saturation levels as is proven by the huge increase yoy of their sales. When countries and US states mandate that no new ICE cars can be purchased within state/country then that will force the populace to buy EV's whether they like it or not. I dont like the policy myself but its happenning all around us in the Western world.

Next you will have cities imposing clean air zones and fines to drive ICE vehicles within them, we already do in the UK. that will force people who live in those areas to go down the EV route also.

Those regulations (undemocratic, not passed by Congress or state legislators) can easily be overturned by the realities of the time. 

I expect them to fold long before they are slated to come into force. 

Europe has only 1.24% of its vehicles as EVs....that is miniscule and will not get much better before this whole charade is ended.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

4 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

You are squirming away from the topic. 

Remember, fossil trucks will be banned.  The EV replacements have been designed and some have been made.

There is plenty of reason to invest in them, lower maintenance and fuel costs, plus the big fact that they will be the only trucks permitted.

Feel free to double down on your mistaken fantasy that all the people and money will leave the green states.  Nobody is leaving the nice places to go live in a cornfield next to a redneck with a confederate flag on his lawn.

 

They will not be banned, there are no laws on that, just government regulations which can be overturned on a whim.  And will be folded and put away as soon as this nonsense dies down.

[turbguy + 1,543]

5 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Demonstrate those laws. RUMOR has it has left the building.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/31/1167561417/california-diesel-truck-phase-out-plan-epa

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

On 9/7/2023 at 3:26 PM, Ecocharger said:

Could? But don't? The availability of heavy duty EV vehicles is non-existent.

Genius California banned all new Truck registration to be only EV... and ALL powered equipment in 2024.... Brilliant!   Do any exist that can do the job?  No.  👍👍  VERY short ranged, VERY limited, VERY expensive versions sometimes exist. 

Ah religious consequences will hit Europe/California soon.  Mechanics will LOVE these new religious laws for old trucks.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

2 hours ago, turbguy said:

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/31/1167561417/california-diesel-truck-phase-out-plan-epa

You appear to be verbally challenged here...those are regulations, not laws.

They can be retracted on a whim and will be when this nonsense comes to an early end.

[turbguy + 1,543]

24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You appear to be verbally challenged here...those are regulations, not laws.

They can be retracted on a whim and will be when this nonsense comes to an early end.

You are correct.  Not passed by the California Legislature and signed by the Governor.  

Other regs seem to be holding.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

2 hours ago, turbguy said:

You are correct.  Not passed by the California Legislature and signed by the Governor.  

Other regs seem to be holding.

Regulations can change overnight and quickly...watch them disappear.

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

9 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Regulations can change overnight and quickly...watch them disappear.

Removed by whom?  Your loser politicians? 

Historically, the regulations stick.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/history-californias-ambient-air-quality-standards

Edited September 9, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:28 PM, Ecocharger said:

Those regulations (undemocratic, not passed by Congress or state legislators) can easily be overturned by the realities of the time. 

Hmmm lets just think about that for a while shall we.

So all the pressure on politicians is to go green green green especially amongst the younger generations. Not doing so means you dont get re-elected. Oops there goes the gas guzzlers off to the crushers.

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

On 9/6/2023 at 3:04 AM, Ecocharger said:

Again, you are compelled to ignore the big picture, which shows that only about 1.24% of European vehicles are EVs, and with EVs now meeting resistance from the projected demand populations, trouble is brewing for the wild fantasies which launched this madness.

Europe is a wildly variable area, with enormous differences in wealth, infrastructure and availability of power. Norway is a country that has been heating houses with electricity for many years and hence has the capacity and infrastructure to support a 100% EV world. So far, for 2023, sales have been 83% BEV, 9% PHEV, 4% HEV and 4% traditional ICE. As a result, at the moment about 25% of all cars on the road are BEV, and another 25% are PHEV. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

Ford is distancing themselves from the EV market. Farley.." EV'S are not for everyone". That would be code for....

                  RUN JOEY RUN!

Just a teaser for what's to come.

Ford CEO Farley explains why the brand isn't going all-electric like GM

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-ceo-farley-all-electric-gm

Edited September 13, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ron Wagner + 707]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:02 AM, Rob Plant said:

Many are shipped in that is true, but there is equally a revolution happenning with the shipping industry too. Whether that is SMR's powering ships or ammonia/hydrogen.

Eco the US is way behind in the uptake of EV's compared to Europe and that is totally understandable due to the size of your country and the total lack of infrastructure. I wouldnt buy one in the US thats for sure. However EV's arent going away as you think, and they havent reached saturation levels as is proven by the huge increase yoy of their sales. When countries and US states mandate that no new ICE cars can be purchased within state/country then that will force the populace to buy EV's whether they like it or not. I dont like the policy myself but its happenning all around us in the Western world.

Next you will have cities imposing clean air zones and fines to drive ICE vehicles within them, we already do in the UK. that will force people who live in those areas to go down the EV route also.

You may be right but the opposition to such policies, in America, may be too great. I am on the side of free choice and freedom of speech. Many Americans are tired of big government mandates. Time will tell. Hopefully we will not be influenced by the norms in Europe and Canada. 

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:50 AM, TailingsPond said:

Removed by whom?  Your loser politicians? 

Historically, the regulations stick.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/history-californias-ambient-air-quality-standards

Historically, there has never been a situation like this, with systemic panic creating a political momentum for ill-advised regulations. That will correct in due course.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

On 9/11/2023 at 9:38 AM, Rob Plant said:

Hmmm lets just think about that for a while shall we.

So all the pressure on politicians is to go green green green especially amongst the younger generations. Not doing so means you dont get re-elected. Oops there goes the gas guzzlers off to the crushers.

The younger generations have something in common with previous young generations....they get older, get married, undertake due diligence in public policy and demand that governments not waste their hard earned money.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Ecocharger