Rob Plant + 2,656 RP October 16, 2023 35 minutes ago, jonathb said: The other news is that all those "German" EVs are made in China. ???? So the German manufacturing plants like Volkswagen, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes etc dont make any EV's??? If you're referring to the battery then the below may interest you Gotion begins EV battery production in Germany - Just Auto (just-auto.com) Oh and there's this which paints a vastly different picture to your post. E-car and component map of Europe | Automotive News Europe (autonews.com) Try researching for just a few seconds to debunk some BS claims by a shite journalist! It will do wonders for your credibility!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,102 DM October 16, 2023 6 hours ago, jonathb said: Some interesting content over on youtube Electric Viking .. basically .. The good news is that German car-makers are achieving their EVs 15% of total sales this year. The other news is that all those "German" EVs are made in China. IMHO, do you want to pay $32K for a Chinese EV, or would you rather pay $100K for a Chinese EV with a German logo on it? Is Chattanooga Tennessee in China....VW EV plant cranking out 85,000 a year..........in the USA $100K???? more like 45k for a fully loaded SUV with all wheel drive........ VW ID4...made in the USA Bidem Boom in EV production in the US Made In America for Americans........... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL October 17, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 6:54 AM, Rob Plant said: ???? So the German manufacturing plants like Volkswagen, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes etc dont make any EV's??? If you're referring to the battery then the below may interest you Gotion begins EV battery production in Germany - Just Auto (just-auto.com) Oh and there's this which paints a vastly different picture to your post. E-car and component map of Europe | Automotive News Europe (autonews.com) Try researching for just a few seconds to debunk some BS claims by a shite journalist! It will do wonders for your credibility!! EVs are stalling fast, especially in the UK where sales and market share have declined. You can't fool the British consumer forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,102 DM October 17, 2023 28 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: EVs are stalling fast, especially in the UK where sales and market share have declined. You can't fool the British consumer forever. EVs are stalling fast????? yet you never post any facts , Just BS Since you ignore facts I will post it for you again........... and for your comment You can't fool..... the only fools are the one who ignores facts and the Luddites Enjoy the EV Sales boom ........... Oil peaked and now it is all downhill CleanTechnica World EV Sales Now Equal 18% Of World Auto Sales https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/07/world-ev-sales-now-equal-18-of-world-auto-sales/ World EV Sales Now Equal 18% Of World Auto Sales ByJosé Pontes Published 2 days ago Global plugin vehicle registrations were up 45% in August 2023 compared to August 2022, rising to 1,238,000 units. In the end, plugins represented 18% share of the overall auto market (with a 13% BEV share alone). This means that the global automotive market is firmly in the Electric Disruption Zone*. Add over 800,000 units coming from plugless hybrids and we have one quarter of global registrations having some form of electrification! (*People have asked me what the “Electric Disruption Zone” is. Basically, it is the steepest part of the tech adoption S-curve. Between 10–20% and 80–90% market share growth will accelerate, and then it will slow down on the way to 100%.) Full electric vehicles (BEVs) represented 71% of plugin registrations in August, keeping the year-to-date tally at 70% share. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 October 17, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: EVs are stalling fast, especially in the UK where sales and market share have declined. You can't fool the British consumer forever. YouPlug-in electric car registrations in the UK – September 2023 So far this year, more than 337,000 new passenger plug-in electric cars were registered in the UK, which is 35 percent more than a year ago and more than one-fifth of the market. Plug-in car registrations in the UK year-to-date (YOY change): BEVs: 238,541 (up 36%) and 16.4% share PHEVs: 98,993 (up 34%) and 6.8% share Total: 337,534 (up 35%) and 23.2% share For reference, in the 12 months of 2022, more than 368,000 new passenger plug-in cars were registered in the UK, reaching an average market share of 22.8%. Edited October 17, 2023 by Jay McKinsey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,102 DM October 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said: YouPlug-in electric car registrations in the UK – September 2023 So far this year, more than 337,000 new passenger plug-in electric cars were registered in the UK, which is 35 percent more than a year ago and more than one-fifth of the market. Plug-in car registrations in the UK year-to-date (YOY change): BEVs: 238,541 (up 36%) and 16.4% share PHEVs: 98,993 (up 34%) and 6.8% share Total: 337,534 (up 35%) and 23.2% share For reference, in the 12 months of 2022, more than 368,000 new passenger plug-in cars were registered in the UK, reaching an average market share of 22.8%. Booming....on the path to 100 Percent by 2030???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL October 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: YouPlug-in electric car registrations in the UK – September 2023 So far this year, more than 337,000 new passenger plug-in electric cars were registered in the UK, which is 35 percent more than a year ago and more than one-fifth of the market. Plug-in car registrations in the UK year-to-date (YOY change): BEVs: 238,541 (up 36%) and 16.4% share PHEVs: 98,993 (up 34%) and 6.8% share Total: 337,534 (up 35%) and 23.2% share For reference, in the 12 months of 2022, more than 368,000 new passenger plug-in cars were registered in the UK, reaching an average market share of 22.8%. Out of date, Jay. Sales and market share for EVs in UK are in free fall. Sad but true...here, borrow my handkerchief. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 October 18, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Out of date, Jay. Sales and market share for EVs in UK are in free fall. Sad but true...here, borrow my handkerchief. Sorry numbnut but those are the most current numbers available and you have no numbers at all. All you have is desperation. Edited October 18, 2023 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL October 18, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: Sorry numbnut but those are the most current numbers available and you have no numbers at all. All you have is desperation. Sorry slowpoke, but there are more recent numbers showing that EVs are declining in market share in the UK. I have already posted them for you. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Electric-Car-Market-Dips-Slightly-On-Petrol-Ban-Reversal.html "...according to the latest data from trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT)." "... overall BEV [also known as EV] market share dipped slightly to 16.6 percent year-on-year, down from 16.9 percent and driven by a fall in demand from private buyers." That means an absolute drop in numbers for personal EV purchases due to the withdrawal of government buying incentives caused by the UK budget pressures. The EV revolution is unsustainable. Edited October 18, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,102 DM October 18, 2023 11 hours ago, Ecocharger said: EVs are stalling fast, especially in the UK where sales and market share have declined. You can't fool the British consumer forever. Jays chart shows increases........Point for Jay Eco posts BS .....no points for BS only one that is a fool is the one who does not want to deal with reality EV sales are booming year over year over year over year 2023 increases after increase after increases year over year Score another point for Jay, Eco.....no points again for you as we do not award participation points for losers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,656 RP October 18, 2023 EV's in the UK used to be a novelty to see one on the road, now they are everywhere along with charging infrastructure at pretty much every car park, hotel, service station, shopping mall, conference centre etc etc. They continue to increase market share yoy, no need to post links as Jay and notsonice have done this already. Europe is most definitely on the road to EV dominance, its a fact that stares everyone in the face when they drive. Regarding the US this is going to be a much harder sell due to distance and therefore range anxiety and practicality. However with improved battery tech happening all around us I am confident this will be overcome. The only way EV's wont dominate is if something comes along better and more economical such as H2. H2 projects are booming globally for industry, transportation etc etc New Deloitte report: Emerging green hydrogen market set to help reshape global energy map by end of decade, creating US$1.4 trillion market by 2050 Mark Lawson please take note! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,656 RP October 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Sorry slowpoke, but there are more recent numbers showing that EVs are declining in market share in the UK. I have already posted them for you. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Electric-Car-Market-Dips-Slightly-On-Petrol-Ban-Reversal.html "...according to the latest data from trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT)." "... overall BEV [also known as EV] market share dipped slightly to 16.6 percent year-on-year, down from 16.9 percent and driven by a fall in demand from private buyers." That means an absolute drop in numbers for personal EV purchases due to the withdrawal of government buying incentives caused by the UK budget pressures. The EV revolution is unsustainable. Eco technically you are correct that market share for BEV's fell very slightly in Sepetember. Maybe what you dont realise is that twice a year (March and September) in the UK the new registrations come out so there is always a spike in sales as everyone wants a new registration plate. Jay's graph shows this perfectly! In that report you cite, it clearly states however that EV sales grew by 18.9% so your argument that they are declining because the rebate has been withdrawn is false. You will find that October sales will revert to the norm levels and EV's will once again eat into market share from ICE. 1 month doesnt make a trend Eco, as the self acclaimed economist you should know this already, no? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL October 18, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Eco technically you are correct that market share for BEV's fell very slightly in Sepetember. Maybe what you dont realise is that twice a year (March and September) in the UK the new registrations come out so there is always a spike in sales as everyone wants a new registration plate. Jay's graph shows this perfectly! In that report you cite, it clearly states however that EV sales grew by 18.9% so your argument that they are declining because the rebate has been withdrawn is false. You will find that October sales will revert to the norm levels and EV's will once again eat into market share from ICE. 1 month doesnt make a trend Eco, as the self acclaimed economist you should know this already, no? No, I am not just technically correct, I am absolutely correct. You missed the point, old boy. Sales of personal EVs fell in absolute numbers, thus causing the loss of market share for EVs. "Self-proclaimed" economist? I think that my university would disagree with you on that description. This drop in personal EV sales is related to the removal of government purchasing incentives, and that indicates the lack of market viability for EV sales. That shows the limits of the personal EV market, and if government incentives are removed for corporate EV sales, those numbers will also be under pressure. This is an artificially sustained market, requiring taxpayers funding to prop up demand. Worthless. Edited October 18, 2023 by Ecocharger 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 505 GE October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: This is an artificially sustained market, requiring taxpayers funding to prop up demand. Worthless. Like purposeful production cuts creating artificial scarcity? Or how about every time the government buys up oil for "strategic reserves." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lexington green + 22 LG October 19, 2023 Not proof of a 'collapse', but a trend worth watching. What is not slowing are hybrid and plug in hybrid sales. I recently drove a Toyota Corolla AWD Hybrid, it was getting close to 65 MPG around town. That means it cuts emissions by more than half compared to all the SUV's running around. Battery power, however it's applied, ain't going away any time soon. 'Electric vehicle sales are slowing While electric vehicles are not the only market for silicon carbide chips, it is perhaps the most important core market. And lately, there have been signs the rapid takeup of EVs by consumers is slowing rapidly. Last weekend, the Wall Street Journal wrote that electric vehicle growth has slowed, with inventory starting to pile up. While this no doubt could be a near-term cyclical symptom of higher interest rates, it could also mean that the early adopter segment for EVs is running out. Higher general prices for EVs, range anxiety, and other factors may make for a more difficult slog for fully electric vehicles to capture the mass market. That being said, the article also noted hybrid and plug-in hybrid demand does seem to be strong. However, it's not clear if these types of cars will have the same SiC content as battery EVs. While it's possible the slowing is just a blip on a steadier path to EV adoption, this year's slowdown in EV sales certainly bears watching for Aehr investors and provides a fourth reason for caution.' 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lexington green + 22 LG October 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Like purposeful production cuts creating artificial scarcity? Or how about every time the government buys up oil for "strategic reserves." Don't forget billions (actually trillions worldwide) in government subsidies for fossil fuels, that have been going on globally for decades. People complain about gas prices today, they would be a lot higher with out the government subsidies. (https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies) Edited October 19, 2023 by lexington green 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL October 19, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Like purposeful production cuts creating artificial scarcity? Or how about every time the government buys up oil for "strategic reserves." Cuts? All time production highs. Fueled by hot demand. Edited October 19, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 505 GE October 19, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Cuts? All time production highs. I guess you skipped economics. OPEC nations are not going full tilt. Surely you know that Mr economist. It is artificial scarcity. Edited October 19, 2023 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,656 RP October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Cuts? All time production highs. Fueled by hot demand. In June 2023, OPEC+ members announced they would extend crude oil production cuts through 2024, limiting global crude oil supplies, particularly sour crude oils. On top of the OPEC+ production cuts, Saudi Arabia announced it would reduce crude oil production by an additional 1 million barrels per day (b/d) for July.25 Sept 2023 Wrong again ECO! As TailingsPond says you must know this unless you have been living on Venus for the last year. Price of oil being artificially propped up by OPEC+ cuts in production is a fact not even you can surely challenge. If demand was so "hot" as you claim why would anyone cut production? U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL October 19, 2023 9 hours ago, TailingsPond said: OPEC nations are not going full tilt. Surely you know that Mr economist. It is artificial scarcity. Oil production is at an all-time high due to hot demand, you surely know that Mr. Non-economist. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL October 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Rob Plant said: In June 2023, OPEC+ members announced they would extend crude oil production cuts through 2024, limiting global crude oil supplies, particularly sour crude oils. On top of the OPEC+ production cuts, Saudi Arabia announced it would reduce crude oil production by an additional 1 million barrels per day (b/d) for July.25 Sept 2023 Wrong again ECO! As TailingsPond says you must know this unless you have been living on Venus for the last year. Price of oil being artificially propped up by OPEC+ cuts in production is a fact not even you can surely challenge. If demand was so "hot" as you claim why would anyone cut production? U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis Production is not being "cut" when it increases. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,102 DM October 19, 2023 eat your hearts out Luddites InsideEVs Mercedes-Benz Electric Car Sales Hit New Record In Q3 2023 Mercedes-Benz Cars reports 510,600 global car sales during the third quarter of 2023 (down almost four percent year-over-year). . 23 hours ago Reuters Exclusive: China's Nio considers tapping dealers to boost EV sales in Europe - sources Chinese electric vehicle maker Nio is considering building a dealer network in Europe to speed up sales growth, three sources familiar with... . 1 day ago Motor1.com Federal Tax Incentives To More Than Double US EV Sales By 2030: Analysis The IRA will not only fuel the EV adoption but also trigger a renaissance in the American lithium industry, S&P Global predicts. . 1 day ago In 2023, the US is forecasted to sell over 1.3 million combined battery electric vehicles and plug-in electric hybrids, which will mark a 52-percent increase over last year. S&P Global’s latest analysis predicts that by 2030, plug-in sales are projected to skyrocket to over 6 million annually The Wall Street Journal China's BYD Forecasts Higher Third-Quarter Profit on Record EV Sales Chinese automaker. BYD. Co. expects third-quarter profit to rise at least 67% on the back of record electric-vehicle sales. . 1 day ago InsideEVs Study Reveals 31% Of US Likely To Buy EVs, Toyota Preference Electric cars are rapidly rising in popularity. Tesla consistently sees record EV deliveries year-over-year, and other automakers,... . 2 hours ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 505 GE October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Oil production is at an all-time high due to hot demand, you surely know that Mr. Non-economist. Try googling "opec production cuts." Just do it. You weaken your "arguments" when you ignore reality. Fact remains oil production is artificially restrained right now, also known as a cut. Feel free to look up all the definitions of "cut" if you like; you will find that the word is appropriate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,656 RP October 20, 2023 16 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Production is not being "cut" when it increases. Opec: What is it and what is happening to oil prices? Opec: What is it and what is happening to oil prices? - BBC News Maybe this will help you ECO Can you spot the word "cut" or "cuts" anywhere in this article? I bet you can many times, and it even explains why they are cutting production just for your reference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lexington green + 22 LG October 20, 2023 Dow Jones: 10/20/2023 EU New Car Sales Rose in September Driven by Hybrids, EVs Today 2:41 AM ET Editor's PicksPrint By Adrià Calatayud New passenger-car registrations rose in September, driven by higher sales of fully electric and hybrid-electric vehicles, the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association said Friday. Registrations, which reflect sales, increased 9.2% to 861,062 units last month compared with a year earlier, according to the industry group, known as ACEA. This marks the EU car market’s fourteenth consecutive month of growth, the association said, after part shortages hurt auto sales last year. For the first nine months of the year, EU car sales rose 17% to 7.9 million units, but the market remains around 20% below the prepandemic level of 10 million units in 2019, ACEA said. Sales of battery electric vehicles grew 14% to reach 127,149 units, taking a 14.8% share of the market, ACEA said. The increase at the EU level came despite a 29% drop in Germany—Europe’s largest market—that the industry group linked to incentive reductions. Registrations of hybrid-electric cars rose faster, increasing by 30.5% to 235,348 units and accounting for 27.3% of the market, according to ACEA. EU sales of EV maker Tesla fell 9.8% last month to 23,834 units, having been among the fastest-growing companies in recent months, ACEA’s data showed. German auto giant Volkswagen Group saw September car registrations in the EU rise 9.6% to 214,914 units. Registrations for Stellantis, the owner of the of Jeep and Peugeot brands, were up 11% at 165,800, while France’s Renault increased sales 5.1% to 89,530. BMW Group’s sales jumped 17.5% to 56,890, while Mercedes-Benz’s registrations grew 16% to 52,834, ACEA said. adria.calatayud@dowjones.com Write to Adria Calatayud Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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