E-car Sales Collapse

[Rob Plant + 2,656]

11 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Population density and commuting distances make a big difference between Americans and most Europeans. I just got back from an 8,000 mile vacation. It is hard to have a lot of EV charging infrastructure along Route 66, from Los Angeles to Seattle, and Seattle to Illinois. 

So get a hybrid like i suggested as i agree the US EV charging infrastructure is a joke. How often do you drive for 8000 miles? Once a year??

The rest of the time you will be doing no more than 30 mile journeys i bet.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

14 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

So get a hybrid like i suggested as i agree the US EV charging infrastructure is a joke. How often do you drive for 8000 miles? Once a year??

The rest of the time you will be doing no more than 30 mile journeys i bet.

And then you have to charge and charge and charge and charge and charge......

[TailingsPond + 505]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

And then you have to charge and charge and charge and charge and charge......

Life is full of repetitive tasks.

Charging is barely more difficult than just parking your car. Can you handle the burden of plugging in your cell?

Gas station visits are not super fun either.

Edited November 10, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Rob Plant + 2,656]

10 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

And then you have to charge and charge and charge and charge and charge......

Or it charges whilst your driving it through regenerative breaking.

Or you just plug it in overnight, not exactly a massive chore for much cheaper fuel!

[Ron Wagner + 649]

Does Toyota Have a Water Fueled Hydrogen Engine Better Than Any Other Option?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HhBIg3rGv4

How a traditional ICE engine can be converted to hydrogen fuel with a lot of expertise. The example is a classic old pickup truck with a powerful engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ron Wagner

[Ron Wagner + 649]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:13 AM, Rob Plant said:

So get a hybrid like i suggested as i agree the US EV charging infrastructure is a joke. How often do you drive for 8000 miles? Once a year??

The rest of the time you will be doing no more than 30 mile journeys i bet.

I have always thought that plug in hybrids make the most sense here. I tried to buy a Maverick pickup that was not even a plug in but the wait was about a year. I decided I loved my huge van too much, but at my age I may eventually trade it in. 

Just about every EV proponent on this site scoffs at hybrids but are coming to the same conclusion re American EVs. 

[lexington green + 22]

Nov. 12, 2023

 

'In recent years, the global automotive industry has been undergoing a significant transformation as electric vehicles (EVs) gain ground in the market. This paradigm shift is more apparent than ever as the EV market in the United States is witnessing a significant surge, with sales hitting record highs. 

In the second quarter of 2023, U.S. consumers bought nearly 300,000 new battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), marking a new record. This figure represents a more than 48% increase compared to the previous year and exceeds the total number of EVs sold in all of 2019. The third quarter brought another record, with quarterly EV sales surpassing 300,000 for the first time. Several factors are contributing to this upward trend in EV sales.'  (nasdaq.com)

 

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/the-rise-of-electric-vehicles-unveiling-the-reasons-behind-record-highs

 

[lexington green + 22]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:52 PM, Ron Wagner said:

Does Toyota Have a Water Fueled Hydrogen Engine Better Than Any Other Option?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HhBIg3rGv4

How a traditional ICE engine can be converted to hydrogen fuel with a lot of expertise. The example is a classic old pickup truck with a powerful engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE

Toyota is selling a vehicle running on a hydrogen powered fuel cell, this year.  Base price, about $50,000.  hydrogen with oxygen being the input, water is the exhaust.   

Edited November 16, 2023 by lexington green

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

27 minutes ago, lexington green said:

Toyota is selling a vehicle running on a hydrogen powered fuel cell, this year.  Base price, about $50,000.

They have been selling the Mirai for almost a decade. Only a few thousand are sold each year.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ron Wagner + 649]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZlsZwcIgpc

Why EVs Are Piling Up At Dealerships In The U.S.

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocNfkVA28mg

10 MAJOR PROBLEMS With Electric Cars You Must Know Before Buying One

Edited November 13, 2023 by Ron Wagner

[Ron Wagner + 649]

44 minutes ago, lexington green said:

Nov. 12, 2023

 

'In recent years, the global automotive industry has been undergoing a significant transformation as electric vehicles (EVs) gain ground in the market. This paradigm shift is more apparent than ever as the EV market in the United States is witnessing a significant surge, with sales hitting record highs. 

In the second quarter of 2023, U.S. consumers bought nearly 300,000 new battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), marking a new record. This figure represents a more than 48% increase compared to the previous year and exceeds the total number of EVs sold in all of 2019. The third quarter brought another record, with quarterly EV sales surpassing 300,000 for the first time. Several factors are contributing to this upward trend in EV sales.'  (nasdaq.com)

 

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/the-rise-of-electric-vehicles-unveiling-the-reasons-behind-record-highs

Fine for europe if you want them. Hybrids may be a better answer for the USA. Most still prefer ICE here because of the initial cost, size, and ease of fueling, familiarity etc.

 

 

[turbguy + 1,436]

https://slaynews.com/news/watchdog-calls-investigation-biden-official-behind-electric-vehicle-push/

OMG!  I have never seen such a poor rating.  Why even bother with that media site.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/slay-news-bias-and-credibility/

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,550]

1 hour ago, turbguy said:

OMG!  I have never seen such a poor rating.  Why even bother with that media site.

Agreed but in the spirit of one upmanship...how does a person get rejected for a seat and then still gets the seat? 

Biden official dogged by ethics probe faces key Senate vote over taxpayer-funded salary: 'Serious scandal'

Sen Ted Cruz, R-Texas, argued President Biden's appointment of Ann Carlson is illegal and introduced legislation to defund her

 

Carlson continues to lead NHTSA despite failing to clear the Senate confirmation process for the position earlier this year. The White House ultimately pulled her name for NHTSA administrator in May after Cruz led opposition to her nomination in response to ethics concerns related to her environmental activism and involvement in recruiting donors for a law firm leading high-profile climate litigation against oil companies.

"President Biden’s illegal appointment of Ann Carlson, who was effectively rejected by the Senate due to concerns about her extreme agenda and radical record, will only yield more mandates, higher costs for families and a less vibrant economy," Cruz told Fox News Digital last month.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-official-dogged-ethics-probe-faces-key-senate-vote-taxpayer-funded-salary-serious-scandal

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Rob Plant + 2,656]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:58 PM, Ron Wagner said:

I have always thought that plug in hybrids make the most sense here. I tried to buy a Maverick pickup that was not even a plug in but the wait was about a year. I decided I loved my huge van too much, but at my age I may eventually trade it in. 

Just about every EV proponent on this site scoffs at hybrids but are coming to the same conclusion re American EVs. 

I dont, Ive driven a couple over the last 6 years and they save a fortune in fuel and are practical.

When you can recharge in 10-20 mins and have a range of 750 miles I'll get an EV.

That seems a long way off still.

[TailingsPond + 505]

7 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I dont, Ive driven a couple over the last 6 years and they save a fortune in fuel and are practical.

When you can recharge in 10-20 mins and have a range of 750 miles I'll get an EV.

That seems a long way off still.

What gas car can go 750 miles?  Your hybrid certainly can't.  Probably at least 3 refuelling stops to go that far.  Unfair to expect that range from an EV.

Edited November 13, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Rob Plant + 2,656]

14 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

What gas car can go 750 miles?  Your hybrid certainly can't.  Probably at least 3 refuelling stops to go that far.  Unfair to expect that range from an EV.

Yes agreed its unfair to expect that but the difference is I can fill my hybrid up with petrol in less than 5 minutes. If Ive got an EV even on a fast charger I'm there for 20-30 mins. People are generally busy and havent got a spare hour and a half waiting for their car to recharge 3 times.

I like hybrids as they are the best of both worlds, great for commuting using the battery only, and practical on long journeys using both petrol and the battery. Just my preference, everyone has the right (currently) to choose for themselves.

[TailingsPond + 505]

20 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes agreed its unfair to expect that but the difference is I can fill my hybrid up with petrol in less than 5 minutes. If Ive got an EV even on a fast charger I'm there for 20-30 mins. People are generally busy and havent got a spare hour and a half waiting for their car to recharge 3 times.

I like hybrids as they are the best of both worlds, great for commuting using the battery only, and practical on long journeys using both petrol and the battery. Just my preference, everyone has the right (currently) to choose for themselves.

You make valid points just the 750 miles number is silly.

You would need far more than an hour and a half of rest time to complete that journey which makes the charge / refuel times irrelevant.  Heck I would need a hotel to drive that far.

Edited November 13, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Rob Plant + 2,656]

21 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

You would need far more than an hour and a half of rest time to complete that journey which makes the charge / refuel times irrelevant.  Heck I would need a hotel to drive that far.

The rest times actually can often be avoided.

If travelling on business you may well be travelling with a colleague so you share the drive meaning one rests whilst the other drives. Same with your partner when going on holiday. Most long journeys are for work or vacation which more often than not is not done alone so rest times become irrelevant and hence the need for fast recharging or extended distances from the battery.

Again this is just my experience others may disagree.

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 57]

For a longish journey of say 600 mls/1000 km, you would typically have one long stop for lunch, even if you have 2 drivers. Hence, a 300 mls/ 500 km range (real-life, motorway speeds, cold weather) would be sufficient for even the hardiest drivers.

Now, let's take a typical long-distance car in Europe (Audi Q5) or it's electric sibling (Audi Q4 e-tron). The Q5 will do 400-500 km on a tank, but the real range for motorway speeds in cold weather on a 77 kWh battery is only about 300 km. So unless the batteries go to 120 kWh or so, people will complain. 

Given that this means we only need a doubling of current standard capacity, I would not see this as an inherent problem with the technology. Apparently the Chinese company Nio already has a 150 kWh solid-state battery pack for sale (only in China though) that fits a smaller sized car.

My guess is that in the course of 2024, there won't be a reason anymore to buy an petrol car. It will take a little longer for pick-ups and larger trucks. This all assumes that charging stations will be readily available - that's a big "if", I know. 

[Rob Plant + 2,656]

3 hours ago, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

you would typically have one long stop for lunch

Never heard of a sandwich?

[TailingsPond + 505]

7 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Never heard of a sandwich?

Travelling with you sounds terrible.

If travelling that far for work, fly.*  If travelling that far by car for vacation, take breaks and have fun.

*My last job prohibited driving that much.  You could only claim mileage on your personal vehicle up to a small limit (never tried).  If travelling with a coworker you could rent a car or use a company vehicle but they also limited the numbers of hours you could drive per day (I forget how many but certainly not anywhere close that marathon drive).  They actually insisted you fly instead, or heaven forbid take a charter bus for large teams.

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

'They Want To Be The Gatekeepers': Car Dealers Are Stopping Customers From Buying EVs

Car dealerships are resisting the transition to electric vehicles.

As it turns out, car dealers seem to know even less than buyers do when it comes to electric vehicles, and they don’t really seem too keen on learning about them. The Washington Post spoke with a number of customers who said dealers tried to redirect them to gas cars or gave them unclear or downright incorrect answers about EVs.

https://jalopnik.com/car-dealers-are-stopping-customers-from-buying-evs-1851017999

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,550]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

'They Want To Be The Gatekeepers': Car Dealers Are Stopping Customers From Buying EVs

Car dealerships are resisting the transition to electric vehicles.

As it turns out, car dealers seem to know even less than buyers do when it comes to electric vehicles, and they don’t really seem too keen on learning about them. The Washington Post spoke with a number of customers who said dealers tried to redirect them to gas cars or gave them unclear or downright incorrect answers about EVs.

https://jalopnik.com/car-dealers-are-stopping-customers-from-buying-evs-1851017999

It would seem you and I once had a conversation on such matters. By the way, a owner/dealer does not sell/steer customers in any shape or form...They do however sign the checks, now steering people around distressed old age merchandise is not what they do.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ron Wagner + 649]

19 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

What gas car can go 750 miles?  Your hybrid certainly can't.  Probably at least 3 refuelling stops to go that far.  Unfair to expect that range from an EV.

True but I could get 400 miles on 10 gallons in my Mirage and another 400 miles with two 5 gallon containers in the back. They sell for about $15,000 new. Match that economy with any street legal electric vehicle. These cars will run anywhere including mountains at any temperature.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

51 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It would seem you and I once had a conversation on such matters. By the way, a owner/dealer does not sell/steer customers in any shape or form...They do however sign the checks, now steering people around distressed old age merchandise is not what they do.

And we all know that is pure BS!  It is legendary how car sales people put people in cars they want to sell.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jay McKinsey