E-car Sales Collapse

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

8 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Well, it is about time: China bans millions of EV's of the light variety which idiots all over the world have counted as "EV sales vehicles".  Guess this will put a giant crimp in the cowardly liars regarding EV sales figures... Nah... cowardly liars never change until they receive Darwin awards.

If you watch the video it said that most users loved the little e-cars, it was the government that is pushing them out because people could drive them without a licence which brings a bunch issues.

 

[Ron Wagner + 707]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cJ1fSX3Nec

HUGE NEWS! Ford & GM SHOCKED As They CAN’T Sell EVs!

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

10 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

If you watch the video it said that most users loved the little e-cars, it was the government that is pushing them out because people could drive them without a licence which brings a bunch issues.

 

Exactly and why we have things called STANDARDS.  Those golf carts do not meet even pathetic Chinese standards.  Yet all the EV liars call them vehicles.  They are in effect, electric bikes/scooters which NO ONE else counts around the world.  Now if we had dedicated lanes for scooters/bikes/trikes/quads then --> YES, we could and frankly --> SHOULD have such a lane allowing CHEAP transportation especially in cities where 30mph speed limits and lower are enforced.

Separate standard, separate entity.  Calling them EV's same as a standardized car you have to have a drivers license for is blatant lie.  Yes, to run a scooter you have to have a license, but it is a VERY simplified one and no insurance.  A bike requires neither. 

Standardized categorization

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

5 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Exactly and why we have things called STANDARDS.  Those golf carts do not meet even pathetic Chinese standards.  Yet all the EV liars call them vehicles.  They are in effect, electric bikes/scooters which NO ONE else counts around the world.  Now if we had dedicated lanes for scooters/bikes/trikes/quads then --> YES, we could and frankly --> SHOULD have such a lane allowing CHEAP transportation especially in cities where 30mph speed limits and lower are enforced.

Separate standard, separate entity.  Calling them EV's same as a standardized car you have to have a drivers license for is blatant lie.  Yes, to run a scooter you have to have a license, but it is a VERY simplified one and no insurance.  A bike requires neither. 

Standardized categorization

They are vehicles by definition, so are pedal bicycles.  The EV people know how to use words.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle

"A vehicle (from Latin vehiculum)[1] is a machine designed for self propulsion, usually to transport people or cargo, or both. Vehicles include wagons, bicycles, motor vehicles (for example, motorcycles, motor cars, trucks, buses and powered wheelchairs and scooters for disabled people), railed vehicles (trains, trams), watercraft (ships, boats, underwater vehicles), amphibious vehicles (screw-propelled vehicles, hovercraft), aircraft (planes, helicopters, aerostats) and spacecraft.[2]"

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

They are vehicles by definition, so are pedal bicycles.  The EV people know how to use words.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle

"A vehicle (from Latin vehiculum)[1] is a machine designed for self propulsion, usually to transport people or cargo, or both. Vehicles include wagons, bicycles, motor vehicles (for example, motorcycles, motor cars, trucks, buses and powered wheelchairs and scooters for disabled people), railed vehicles (trains, trams), watercraft (ships, boats, underwater vehicles), amphibious vehicles (screw-propelled vehicles, hovercraft), aircraft (planes, helicopters, aerostats) and spacecraft.[2]"

SCUM

[notsonice + 1,255]

10 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

SCUM

you seem to have issues with reality..........enjoy the Green Transition..........it is real

PS maybe we should force all ICE vehicles underground in your Tunnel Vision and only allow golf carts on our present road system.......ha ha ha ha

 

[notsonice + 1,255]

looks life Chinese golf carts are road worthy in the US with a limitation on speed limit of the road

 

Recent changes in Texas law now allow golf carts and most off-highway vehicles to be operated on public roadways. However, their operation is restricted to certain conditions, and there are certain stipulations that have to be met in order to legally do so.

 

GOLF CART STATE LAWS - Northlake, TX

 

 

It's legal to drive a golf cart on the road in Florida as long as certain criteria are in place. You must operate it on appropriate roadways that intersect an area where a golf course or trailer park reside and must travel at speeds less than 30 mph.Jul 7, 2023

 

What Are Florida's Golf Cart Laws?

Andrew Pickett Law

https://www.andrewpickettlaw.com › Blog › General

 

 

 

Can I drive a golf cart-style vehicle on the roads?

• You may not drive LSVs on roadways with speed limits that exceed 25 mph. ...
• A LSV is a four-wheeled vehicle with an attainable speed of more than 20 miles per hour, but no more than 25 miles per hour on a paved surface.

More items...

 

Low Speed Vehicles (LSV) | Stafford Township, NJ

 

Illinois allows municipalities to decide for themselves when golf carts can be used. If a municipality specifically allows it, golf carts can be driven on roadways that are deemed safe and have speed limits of 35 miles per hour or less.

 

Are Golf Carts Safe on Streets?

Staver Accident Injury Lawyers, P.C.

https://www.chicagolawyer.com › blog › are-g

[lexington green + 22]

On 1/11/2024 at 4:34 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Ya Don't Say...CANCELD...Jan 11 2014 that's some demand LMAO.

 

 

 

That's not a cancellation . . .  Ford is taking orders for 2024 F150 lightenings.

[lexington green + 22]

 

Electricity certainly not this hard to push around . . . 

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Cost-Of-Carrying-Fuel-from-Mid-East-to-Asia-Grows-182.html

 

[lexington green + 22]

 

 

Collapsing, eh?  

• Fully-electric vehicles (BEVs) had 8.1% market share in Q4 2023. This is a new all-time record. One year prior in Q4 2022, EV market share was 6.5%.
• 1,189,051 electric vehicles were sold in the United States in 2023, the first time the figure has exceeded one million.   (caredge.com)

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

7 hours ago, lexington green said:

 

That's not a cancellation . . .  Ford is taking orders for 2024 F150 lightenings.

Ya Don't Say 

Ford cuts electric F-150 Lightning truck production — again

Graham Rapier 

Jan 19, 2024, 6:00 AM PST

 

Over the past year, lofty automaker expectations have clashed with reality as the electric vehicle market transitions from one of eager early adopters with deep pockets to a more price-conscious consumer with vastly more options to choose from. The only issue? Few options are truly affordable compared to traditional gas-burning vehicles.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-cuts-electric-f-150-lightning-production-affecting-jobs-2024-1

Edited January 24 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

20 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Ya Don't Say 

Ford cuts electric F-150 Lightning truck production — again

Graham Rapier 

Jan 19, 2024, 6:00 AM PST

 

Over the past year, lofty automaker expectations have clashed with reality as the electric vehicle market transitions from one of eager early adopters with deep pockets to a more price-conscious consumer with vastly more options to choose from. The only issue? Few options are truly affordable compared to traditional gas-burning vehicles.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-cuts-electric-f-150-lightning-production-affecting-jobs-2024-1

The word "cuts" around here seems to be hard to understand for some.

When OPEC "cuts production" that does not mean they stopped producing oil entirely.

Similarly, if you actually read the article you would notice Ford is still making the e-truck.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

14 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

The word "cuts" around here seems to be hard to understand for some.

As to cuts...a economic disaster is coming to leasing institutions worldwide..This will shake EU market places to its core.

Fleets face ‘sharp rise’ in lease costs if EV used values fall further

• By Gareth Roberts
• |
• 6 December 2023

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleets-face-sharp-rise-in-lease-costs-if-ev-used-vales-fall-further

 

 

Edited January 25 by Eyes Wide Open

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

As to cuts...a economic disaster is coming to leasing institutions worldwide..This will shake EU market places to its core.

Fleets face ‘sharp rise’ in lease costs if EV used values fall further

• By Gareth Roberts
• |
• 6 December 2023

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleets-face-sharp-rise-in-lease-costs-if-ev-used-vales-fall-further

 

 

Cant you grasp the fact that there are a lot more Teslas out there now?

Isnt it great to see the prices plummet making them far more affordable to the masses!!!

I thought cost was the issue why they werent selling?  Guess you just proved your mate ECO wrong!

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Cant you grasp the fact that there are a lot more Teslas out there now?

I can't grasp? How rare...have a read...you might take the time to understand/grasp the dynamics of residual based financing. Not to mention betting the farm on a new technology with no known market history...aside from the fact the market does not exist without highly incentived government  subsidies...

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November 22, 2023 03:04 PM

Why the U.K. is leading in EV leasing and how the EU can follow

In many of Europe's top markets, this influential sector is lacking the leadership needed to put the sector on an ambitious electrification path.

The U.K.'s leasing market is not just slightly ahead of its European neighbors - it's bolting
ahead. More than 40 percent of new registrations in the U.K. leasing channel are now battery-electric vehicles (BEVs). Compare this with 10 percent in France, less than 4 percent in Italy and just a little more than 3 percent in Spain.

 

Ralph Palmer is electric fleets lead at Transport & Environment U.K.

Only the leasing channels in the Netherlands and Belgium get anywhere close to the U.K.'s level.

What is a residual value?

A residual value or balloon payment is where an amount of the total value of the car is deferred or postponed to the end of the contract. For example, if you buy a car for R300 000 with a residual of 30% (R90 000), that R90 000, plus interest, is only due at the end of the contract. This leaves you to pay the monthly instalment only on the R210 000 (R300 000 less the R90 000), giving you a lower monthly payment.

 

 

https://europe.autonews.com/guest-columnist/eu-countries-can-learn-lot-about-ev-leasing-uk

 

 

https://www.1life.co.za/blog/residual-payment-new-car-finance#:~:text=A residual value or balloon,the end of the contract.

Edited January 25 by Eyes Wide Open

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

How beyond STUPID is anyone who leases ANYTHING?  Biggest suckers ever found, dumb fools who lease shit.  Anytime I hear they are leasing something, I immediately see them as a sucker to be taken advantage of for profit by me if I can figure out how to get them hooked. 

[notsonice + 1,255]

33 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

How beyond STUPID is anyone who leases ANYTHING?  Biggest suckers ever found, dumb fools who lease shit.  Anytime I hear they are leasing something, I immediately see them as a sucker to be taken advantage of for profit by me if I can figure out how to get them hooked. 

Companies lease new cars and let their employees drive them ...cough cough for work purposes (and the employee does not have to pay for personal use and do not have to own their own vehicle) and give the employees a company credit card for gas .....tax free benefit passed onto employees.........it works out that the business deducts the cost from their taxes and the employee pays no taxes......  30 to 40 percent of the purchase price is evaded legally IE you do not have to use after tax dollars to buy a vehicle ....you use pretax earnings . After the lease is up the Companies just return it and get another new vehicle ....IE they do not get stuck with a fleet of high mileage high cost for maintenance vehicles that they have to sell (most companies are not set up to sell used cars)

 

A great perk for employees......... Keeps your better employees happy when the get a free ride parked in their driveway

 

Leasing is super popular for contractors that use pickup trucks...if your employee leaves the next employee gets the company vehicle

 

Leasing works especially well in California for high wage earners as the top brackets for state income tax are brutal

 

Personal leases .....unless being written off as a business expense ...make no sense ....unless you know you only need the vehicle for 3 or 4 years

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

Companies lease new cars and let their employees drive them ...cough cough for work purposes (and the employee does not have to pay for personal use and do not have to own their own vehicle) and give the employees a company credit card for gas .....tax free benefit passed onto employees.........it works out that the business deducts the cost from their taxes and the employee pays no taxes......  30 to 40 percent of the purchase price is evaded legally IE you do not have to use after tax dollars to buy a vehicle ....you use pretax earnings . After the lease is up the Companies just return it and get another new vehicle ....IE they do not get stuck with a fleet of high mileage high cost for maintenance vehicles that they have to sell (most companies are not set up to sell used cars)

 

A great perk for employees......... Keeps your better employees happy when the get a free ride parked in their driveway

 

Leasing is super popular for contractors that use pickup trucks...if your employee leaves the next employee gets the company vehicle

 

Leasing works especially well in California for high wage earners as the top brackets for state income tax are brutal

 

Personal leases .....unless being written off as a business expense ...make no sense ....unless you know you only need the vehicle for 3 or 4 years

Well you just showed you have NEVER run a business other than as an employee or hearsay... Holy Hell.  You pay 2X cost of a vehicle if you lease it.  And yes, every business is setup to deal with high mileage vehicles.  And no, no contractors lease their PU trucks.  They can't afford to do so.  Governments and government contractor losers who do not have to adhere to basic economics can do so.  An actual contractor may RENT one out of 4 vehicles for a short burst period, otherwise they would quickly go out of business if they leased.  Not to mention most contractors in the trades are using vans as they have to haul all their TOOLS with them so they do NOT use or buy PU trucks.  Moron employees who do not actually haul anything buy PU trucks for some dumb reason.  Anyone who actually hauls anything uses a VAN which keeps things dry, and the prolific thieves at bay. 

[notsonice + 1,255]

1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Well you just showed you have NEVER run a business other than as an employee or hearsay... Holy Hell.  You pay 2X cost of a vehicle if you lease it.  And yes, every business is setup to deal with high mileage vehicles.  And no, no contractors lease their PU trucks.  They can't afford to do so.  Governments and government contractor losers who do not have to adhere to basic economics can do so.  An actual contractor may RENT one out of 4 vehicles for a short burst period, otherwise they would quickly go out of business if they leased.  Not to mention most contractors in the trades are using vans as they have to haul all their TOOLS with them so they do NOT use or buy PU trucks.  Moron employees who do not actually haul anything buy PU trucks for some dumb reason.  Anyone who actually hauls anything uses a VAN which keeps things dry, and the prolific thieves at bay. 

lol you just spot bs all the time

how is your plan to build tunnels everywhere working out for you????

I do not lease vehicles however I worked on enough project sites where almost everything is leased.....and I am not talking about short term rentals.........

anything over 6 months and you lease.........

 

 

Loaders ......Excavators... trucks of every kind.....cars ........photocopiers....computers...office furniture

no contractors lease their pickups?????

dude have you ever had a job???? in the real world???

 

Businessed lease just about everything

office space , warehouses, forklifts, airplanes, Semis, ships, rail cars, the list goes on and on and on

 

and people lease lease lease

have you ever heard of people leasing an apartment????????

 

 

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

There are times one just has to close his or her eyes and just laugh. Leasing which is the model used to drive EV Sales may well break the back of many major institutions. They were already losing billions and kept it under wraps. With this new market it will be a shattering event.

• Ford will begin reporting its financial results by business unit, instead of by region, and will release revised results that will show how the new business units would have performed in 2021 and 2022.
• The changes amount to the most detailed look yet by any legacy automaker into the finances behind the EV business.
• Wall Street is taking a wait-and-see approach to the changes, but is expecting significant EV unit losses.

Deutsche Bank analyst Emmanuel Rosner believes Ford could be incurring gross losses of about $9,000 per EV sold. The analyst expects Ford to reveal Thursday Model e operating losses of $6 billion for 2022. That’s after accounting for significant research and development investments — roughly 65% of the company’s total R&D — into the EV unit.

 

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/22/ford-to-break-out-ev-business.html

Edited January 25 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

5 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

. That’s after accounting for significant research and development investments — roughly 65% of the company’s total R&D — into the EV unit.

65% of R&D going into EV's.  That should tell you the direction the company, and the auto industry at large, is going.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

12 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Well you just showed you have NEVER run a business other than as an employee or hearsay... Holy Hell.  You pay 2X cost of a vehicle if you lease it.  And yes, every business is setup to deal with high mileage vehicles.  And no, no contractors lease their PU trucks.  They can't afford to do so.  Governments and government contractor losers who do not have to adhere to basic economics can do so.  An actual contractor may RENT one out of 4 vehicles for a short burst period, otherwise they would quickly go out of business if they leased.  Not to mention most contractors in the trades are using vans as they have to haul all their TOOLS with them so they do NOT use or buy PU trucks.  Moron employees who do not actually haul anything buy PU trucks for some dumb reason.  Anyone who actually hauls anything uses a VAN which keeps things dry, and the prolific thieves at bay. 

You are showing how naiive you are once again

Company car leasing as Notsonice says is an invaluable perk to employees and there are massive tax advantages to employees if they lease an EV or even a hybrid (yes government grants). These arent necessarily high mileage vehicles and in fact are often limited to 10,000 miles per annum on the lease. In the UK company cars is a massive perk just like health care is in the US.

If you want a happy employee who is less likely to go to a competitor then give them a flash car that makes them feel special and the competition are toast.

This is company car leasing and NOT private leasing!! dont get the 2 confused, private leasing as you say is a mug's game!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

9 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

There are times one just has to close his or her eyes and just laugh. Leasing which is the model used to drive EV Sales may well break the back of many major institutions. They were already losing billions and kept it under wraps. With this new market it will be a shattering event.

• Ford will begin reporting its financial results by business unit, instead of by region, and will release revised results that will show how the new business units would have performed in 2021 and 2022.
• The changes amount to the most detailed look yet by any legacy automaker into the finances behind the EV business.
• Wall Street is taking a wait-and-see approach to the changes, but is expecting significant EV unit losses.

Deutsche Bank analyst Emmanuel Rosner believes Ford could be incurring gross losses of about $9,000 per EV sold. The analyst expects Ford to reveal Thursday Model e operating losses of $6 billion for 2022. That’s after accounting for significant research and development investments — roughly 65% of the company’s total R&D — into the EV unit.

 

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/22/ford-to-break-out-ev-business.html

The average company car is leased is on a 3 year lease contract in the UK. Once that is up the vehicle is sold as second hand.

This is exactly the same as ICE vehicle and follows EXACTLY the same model to drive sales.

The test for EV's will be when the government subsidies are gone. However with many companies taking ESG more seriously many are introducing company rules where you have to drive an EV/PHEV

I drive a company leased vehicle and have had 6 over the last 18 years, meaning Ive never had to buy a new car, pay insurance, road tax, servicing, tyres etc and with a PHEV (which I have for tax reasons) can commute totally free as I charge it at work during the day and get a brand new car every 3 years.

Great deal for me eh?

Would I choose a PHEV or EV without the tax incentives? possibly not, although with a PHEV the fuel saving is immense!

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

45 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I drive a company leased vehicle and have had 6 over the last 18 years, meaning Ive never had to buy a new car, pay insurance, road tax, servicing, tyres etc and with a PHEV (which I have for tax reasons) can commute totally free as I charge it at work during the day and get a brand new car every 3 years.

Great deal for me eh?

Would I choose a PHEV or EV without the tax incentives? possibly not, although with a PHEV the fuel saving is immense!

In Canada if you get to drive the company car outside of work hours it is considered a taxable benefit.  Although, the small income tax hit is greatly overcome by the fact you get a free car.

One of my friends parents owns a very wealthy company.  They used company funds to provide zero percent interest mortgages to the owners children.  Sweet deal for a while but they got caught, a zero percent mortgage is a taxable employee benefit.

 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

21 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

In Canada if you get to drive the company car outside of work hours it is considered a taxable benefit.  Although, the small income tax hit is greatly overcome by the fact you get a free car.

One of my friends parents owns a very wealthy company.  They used company funds to provide zero percent interest mortgages to the owners children.  Sweet deal for a while but they got caught, a zero percent mortgage is a taxable employee benefit.

 

 

Yeah in the UK the car is yours to go wherever you want whenever you want, as you say there is a tax burden to pay but on EV's and hybrids/PHEV's that is far less than ICE vehicles and that will be the test for those when the tax incentives stop.