E-car Sales Collapse

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:46 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

CEO Must Uphold Fiduciary Duty to Shareholders

You don't understand what that means.

There is no requirement to maximize profit each quarter. Corporations can operate at a loss for years if it is part of a long-term vision.  If anything the CEO would be culpable for not investing in the EV market share when the writing is on the wall.

Furthermore, EVs are only part of the product line - not every product has to be profitable all the time.  McDonald's consistently loses money on its salads, Costco loses money on the hotdogs and rotisserie chickens.   No shareholders complain. Why?

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:29 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

You are quite correct, the US automarket is heading for disaster.

Again?

Ask Detroit if ICE technology prevented that...

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Again?

Ask Detroit if ICE technology prevented that...

I was there, Mulally put Green back in the Pandora's box. Ponds your thought processes redefine mental illness.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

Furthermore

Furthermore? Without question you are desperate need of therapeutic intervention..."Furthermore"...one just cannot make that chit up!

Edited May 21, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[NickW + 2,714]

Just test drove a BMW IX3 (EV) this morning. Lovely car. Quiet, fantastic acceleration 

Ours is due for delivery in late June. 😄

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

You don't understand what that means.

There is no requirement to maximize profit each quarter. Corporations can operate at a loss for years if it is part of a long-term vision.  If anything the CEO would be culpable for not investing in the EV market share when the writing is on the wall.

Furthermore, EVs are only part of the product line - not every product has to be profitable all the time.  McDonald's consistently loses money on its salads, Costco loses money on the hotdogs and rotisserie chickens.   No shareholders complain. Why?

EWO is just blowing smoke out of his ringer as usual. 

Toyota made a loss on hybrids for the first years before it turned into a big sales winner for them. Ironically Ford own 50% of the patent on that CVT gearbox used in Prius etc. 

[Refman + 207]

7 hours ago, specinho said:

Good points...

But from this photo below, it might show one essential point:

It might not be the number of different roundabouts and different types of cars that matter to solve problem of heavy traffic, air pollution and all, but reduce the number of cars on the road... 

The further we try to prepare infrastructure and things to meet forecasted extrapolated demand, the more complicated our solution would become. This divergence would eventually bring us to a point of dysfunctional, in massive  scale..... 

Our common way that find solution to what is seen or foreseen might have created a habit of ultra focus. For examples, forecasting demand for food, we create practices for massive harvesting; forecasting extrapolated demand for housing, we deforest and build massively. 

It might be time we do no more but look back at what have become... before we proceed again knowing what has gone wrong..... 

Sharing a discussion happened somewhere:

Q:" Had we placed life on top of our decision making and law, could we hv a different world?" By yyyyz... 

A reply from one of the participants:

"Although our eyes is at the front of the head, but what we value most is usually the " hind sight" .....i.e. what we see after info in the eyes is conveyed and processed by the back of the head...... 'o'

We might never have known until we looked back........ '-'

"

We need to not just reduce the number of vehicles on the road but population overall. Thankfully China now seems to be decreasing.

Also - nice picture of the Magic Roundabout. I went round the other Magic Roundabout in Hemel Hempstead many times in my youth. A shame roundabouts are not used more in the US where we seem to have a love affair with 4 way stop signs or just stick traffic lights at every intersection. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Refman

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

2 hours ago, Refman said:

We need to not just reduce the number of vehicles on the road but population overall. Thankfully China now seems to be decreasing.

Why not start with yourself?  OH right, YOU are important, "they" are not...

Rules for thee, but not for me...

Small minded fool.  No we do not have a resource problem.  Have an infrastructure problem

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

23 hours ago, specinho said:

Good points...

But from this photo below, it might show one essential point:

It might not be the number of different roundabouts and different types of cars that matter to solve problem of heavy traffic, air pollution and all, but reduce the number of cars on the road... 

The further we try to prepare infrastructure and things to meet forecasted extrapolated demand, the more complicated our solution would become. This divergence would eventually bring us to a point of dysfunctional, in massive  scale..... 

Our common way that find solution to what is seen or foreseen might have created a habit of ultra focus. For examples, forecasting demand for food, we create practices for massive harvesting; forecasting extrapolated demand for housing, we deforest and build massively. 

It might be time we do no more but look back at what have become... before we proceed again knowing what has gone wrong..... 

Sharing a discussion happened somewhere:

Q:" Had we placed life on top of our decision making and law, could we hv a different world?" By yyyyz... 

A reply from one of the participants:

"Although our eyes is at the front of the head, but what we value most is usually the " hind sight" .....i.e. what we see after info in the eyes is conveyed and processed by the back of the head...... 'o'

We might never have known until we looked back........ '-'

"

Cirencester is very nice its just you cant figure out how to get there!

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:54 AM, NickW said:

Just test drove a BMW IX3 (EV) this morning. Lovely car. Quiet, fantastic acceleration 

Ours is due for delivery in late June. 😄

When did you place your order for your first EV?

Edited May 22, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:00 AM, NickW said:

EWO is just blowing smoke out of his ringer as usual. 

Toyota made a loss on hybrids for the first years before it turned into a big sales winner for them. Ironically Ford own 50% of the patent on that CVT gearbox used in Prius etc. 

In a sense you are quite correct in your off the cuff/ winging it approach I employ. I commend you on your razor keen sense.

Frankly one can merely use the web to find hundreds if not thousands of green energy calamities in mere minutes. There also appears to some rather confusing info out in hinder land. Could you imagine some northern European countries demanding climate change..and yet these countries are home to shipping fleets that pollute more than all the world's autos combined...by a factor of 10..I've heard that factor could be over 100..

So many rumours..so little time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maersk_Line#:~:text=Maersk Line is a Danish,374 ports in 116 countries.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

Back on topic..The hits just keep on rolling.

I once believed that GM had everything needed for a successful EV program. The Detroit carmaker invested billions in overhauling its factories and building new ones. Its EV plans looked rock solid, with more than a dozen EV models planned, some in the mass-market segments. GM even started partnerships with battery makers and raw material suppliers to ensure it has everything in place for a successful execution of its EV plan.

I smiled when Mary Barra vowed to surpass Tesla by 2025, although I thought if anyone were to challenge the EV leader, it would be GM. With all the resources, all the money, and all the factories, GM had a shot at being an important player in the EV arena, even without selling more EVs than Tesla. GM proved me wrong despite all this, with a disappointing EV production in 2022 and no sign of improvement in 2023.

 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/after-a-botched-ev-push-general-motors-is-in-deep-trouble-211660.html

After a Botched EV Push, General Motors Is in Deep Trouble

10 Mar 2023, 15:39 UTC • By: Cristian Agatie 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Back on topic..The hits just keep on rolling.

I once believed that GM had everything needed for a successful EV program. The Detroit carmaker invested billions in overhauling its factories and building new ones. Its EV plans looked rock solid, with more than a dozen EV models planned, some in the mass-market segments. GM even started partnerships with battery makers and raw material suppliers to ensure it has everything in place for a successful execution of its EV plan.

I smiled when Mary Barra vowed to surpass Tesla by 2025, although I thought if anyone were to challenge the EV leader, it would be GM. With all the resources, all the money, and all the factories, GM had a shot at being an important player in the EV arena, even without selling more EVs than Tesla. GM proved me wrong despite all this, with a disappointing EV production in 2022 and no sign of improvement in 2023.

 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/after-a-botched-ev-push-general-motors-is-in-deep-trouble-211660.html

After a Botched EV Push, General Motors Is in Deep Trouble

10 Mar 2023, 15:39 UTC • By: Cristian Agatie 

GM is no fool. They understand that the average American will continue to rely on fossil fuel vehicles for the remainder of this century. There is no future for EVs in America except as a niche product.

[Refman + 207]

On 5/21/2023 at 1:57 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Why not start with yourself?  OH right, YOU are important, "they" are not...

Rules for thee, but not for me...

Small minded fool.  No we do not have a resource problem.  Have an infrastructure problem

Oh wow, such a clever retort, I'm very impressed by your incredible mind and wit.

[specinho + 470]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:07 AM, Refman said:

We need to not just reduce the number of vehicles on the road but population overall. Thankfully China now seems to be decreasing.

Also - nice picture of the Magic Roundabout. I went round the other Magic Roundabout in Hemel Hempstead many times in my youth. A shame roundabouts are not used more in the US where we seem to have a love affair with 4 way stop signs or just stick traffic lights at every intersection. 

In fact, it might be a world wide trend besides country policy of china. For examples,

1. High living costs

Things are getting expensive including kids education. Schooling fees for kindergarten is more expensive than fees for primary, secondary and university. 

Hence, by the number of kids a person has, we could deduce the number of times the couple fornicate per life time... One child = 1 time etc...

Self restraint or discipline is important in keeping costs of living and daily routine manageable with minimal kid.

 

2. Social change

From single income stream and with 4 to 10 kids on average, to double income families with maximum 2 kids, the change is keeping everyone busy with work, OT, after work social events etc...

They have no time nor mood to fornicate when free, not to mention popular problems of erectile dysfunction amidst > 60 to 70% of city dwellers; extramarital problems, emotional derailment etc.

3. Medical procedure

For India, who proudly claimed they are now having the largest population of the world, surpassing china, a medical procedure has been popularly discussed. Vasectomy. By using a thread and a surgeon, it can be done cheaply and effectively. 

This is not gender bias but with a reason as shown by Randy, the hamster, below. 

Regarding the roundabout... Traffic light and such... You might have highlighted another important cause of traffic congestion. Those..... at inappropriate location or distance... 

[NickW + 2,714]

19 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

In a sense you are quite correct in your off the cuff/ winging it approach I employ. I commend you on your razor keen sense.

Frankly one can merely use the web to find hundreds if not thousands of green energy calamities in mere minutes. There also appears to some rather confusing info out in hinder land. Could you imagine some northern European countries demanding climate change..and yet these countries are home to shipping fleets that pollute more than all the world's autos combined...by a factor of 10..I've heard that factor could be over 100..

So many rumours..so little time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maersk_Line#:~:text=Maersk Line is a Danish,374 ports in 116 countries.

 

Another thread derailer bought to us by EWO. 

You'll find Panama has more tonnage than the EU combined. 

List of merchant navy capacity by country - Wikipedia

TBF the EU has been quite instrumental in driving environmental standards fwd, safety etc compared to the worlds flag of convenience countries. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by NickW

[NickW + 2,714]

19 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

When did you place your order for your first EV?

Mrs placed the order a couple of weeks ago through her employer. 

I bought a Toyota Hybrid in 2016 (that gets downgraded to being our runabout) 

All part of the transition process. 

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

6 hours ago, NickW said:

Mrs placed the order a couple of weeks ago through her employer. 

I bought a Toyota Hybrid in 2016 (that gets downgraded to being our runabout) 

All part of the transition process. 

Delivery in late June? Presuming the schedule is on schedule. 

You can use it to putter around town? No long distance work, so this becomes your third vehicle for demonstration purposes only?

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

6 hours ago, NickW said:

Another thread derailer bought to us by EWO. 

You'll find Panama has more tonnage than the EU combined. 

List of merchant navy capacity by country - Wikipedia

TBF the EU has been quite instrumental in driving environmental standards fwd, safety etc compared to the worlds flag of convenience countries. 

"Environmental standards" without any scientific demonstration? That defies logic.

[NickW + 2,714]

14 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Delivery in late June? Presuming the schedule is on schedule. 

You can use it to putter around town? No long distance work, so this becomes your third vehicle for demonstration purposes only?

The order was from existing new stock rather than built to order.

Not being retards we considered the cars functionality relative to our travel needs. 

• It covers all my wifes commuting needs (round trip 50 miles) 
• The furthest trips we take from east of London are to family in Southampton, Bournemouth (SW UK) and Leeds (Northern UK)  all of which can be done easily on a full charge. We invariably stay so can charge overnight for return journeys
• We can visit friends in SW London, NW London, Cambridge  or Heathrow without recharging. 

On the remote chance we decide to do a driving holiday around highland Scotland I might be inclined to take the hybrid which is an estate and has a range of 500 miles on a full tank but could still be done with the EV. Alternatively get the train to Scotland and hire a car. 

In the event we need to charge away from home / friends / family here is a map of charging points around the UK, whether they are available, and what type & charge rate. On a 200 mile trip we normally take a coffee / stretch legs stop so there is always the opportunity to use a fast charger. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, NickW said:

The order was from existing new stock rather than built to order.

Not being retards we considered the cars functionality relative to our travel needs. 

• It covers all my wifes commuting needs (round trip 50 miles) 
• The furthest trips we take from east of London are to family in Southampton, Bournemouth (SW UK) and Leeds (Northern UK)  all of which can be done easily on a full charge. We invariably stay so can charge overnight for return journeys
• We can visit friends in SW London, NW London, Cambridge  or Heathrow without recharging. 

On the remote chance we decide to do a driving holiday around highland Scotland I might be inclined to take the hybrid which is an estate and has a range of 500 miles on a full tank but could still be done with the EV. Alternatively get the train to Scotland and hire a car. 

In the event we need to charge away from home / friends / family here is a map of charging points around the UK, whether they are available, and what type & charge rate. On a 200 mile trip we normally take a coffee / stretch legs stop so there is always the opportunity to use a fast charger. 

UK EV charging map

https://www.zap-map.com/live/

[NickW + 2,714]

32 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

UK EV charging map

https://www.zap-map.com/live/

Thanks - forgot to add that!

[NickW + 2,714]

17 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

"Environmental standards" without any scientific demonstration? That defies logic.

Virtually all coastal states are members of the IMO its just that European states are generally better at applying standards. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:09 PM, Ecocharger said:

GM is no fool. They understand that the average American will continue to rely on fossil fuel vehicles for the remainder of this century. There is no future for EVs in America except as a niche product.

After losing perhaps 6/10 billion dollars  somebody has contained/constrained the green activists in GM. The CEO has very little time left, frankly GM as we once knew it is probably just a memory. 

Where this all goes will be quite fascinating..I am quite sure some brilliant chit for brains is quietly restructuring a cost shifting scheme in a attempt cover the green energy loss debacle..

Why is GM investing nearly $1B in V-8 engines when it’s ‘all in’ on electric vehicles?

Although GM claims the Bolt was the “#1 mainstream EV series in Q3 and Q4,” with deliveries climbing over 50% YOY, total electric vehicle sales still amounted to less than 2%, while many companies are already achieving double-digit (or 100%) EV sales share.

To make matters worse, the company announced today it’s investing $918 million in four of its facilities for “V-8 engine production, EV components.” The EV components part comprises of a mere $64 million, less than 10%, going toward two of its facilities.

 

https://electrek.co/2023/01/20/why-is-gm-investing-1b-in-v-8-engines-when-its-all-in-on-evs/

Edited May 24, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

22 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

https://electrek.co/2023/01/20/why-is-gm-investing-1b-in-v-8-engines-when-its-all-in-on-evs/

 

From the link you posted.

"GM invests $854M in V-8 engines"

"GM is investing over $35 billion through 2025 in electric vehicles"

"The future is fully electric."

Do you guys ever read the links you post?  They always say electric is winning.

$35B far more than $854M

They are making fun of GM for not capturing EV market share... not praising them for investing in old technology.

Edited May 24, 2023 by TailingsPond