notsonice + 1,097 DM February 20 16 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said: I think there might be more fires in EVs if they were more popular and people could afford them. Fewer fires because fewer EVs. According to recent data from the U.S. Department of Energy, not much. In this graphic, we visualize light-duty vehicle registrations in 2022, broken out by fuel type. It shows that out of the 281 million cars registered nationally, electric (EV) and plug-in hybrid (PHEV) vehicles represented only 1.2%.Nov 21, 2023 Visualized: EV Market Share in the U.S. - Visual Capitalist The change to LFP batteries , which has happened in the last year reduces fires in EVs to near zero How are LiFePO4 batteries safer than other lithium batteries? RELiON Battery https://www.relionbattery.com › knowledge › how-are... When subjected to hazardous events, such as collision or short-circuiting, they won't explode or catch fire, significantly reducing any chance of harm. If you' 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 649 February 20 2 minutes ago, notsonice said: The change to LFP batteries , which has happened in the last year reduces fires in EVs to near zero How are LiFePO4 batteries safer than other lithium batteries? RELiON Battery https://www.relionbattery.com › knowledge › how-are... When subjected to hazardous events, such as collision or short-circuiting, they won't explode or catch fire, significantly reducing any chance of harm. If you' Good to know. I have two in my attached garage but still worried about my electric bike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,097 DM February 20 1 minute ago, Ron Wagner said: Good to know. I have two in my attached garage but still worried about my electric bike. I looked at buying an VW ID 4...they have not switched to LFP yet .....the EVs are evolving for the good and the undercarriage protection........well a thin sheet of aluminum does not stop punctures into the batteries from debris on a freeway..... too many loud thumps when hitting debris on the freeway and we all know to look under our cars to see if we wiped anything out...Tesla has a different approach What is the undercarriage battery shield made from? Volkswagen ID Forum https://www.vwidtalk.com › ... › Volkswagen ID.4 May 23, 2022 — ... undercarriage battery shield. It appears to be made of aluminum 1/4 ... VW to meet new EV credit restrictions with battery materials from Canada. In response to the fires that occurred last year, Tesla has developed a fix for the Model S that makes the battery pack virtually impenetrable to road debris: a three-layer battery shield made of ballistic-grade aluminum and titanium. Tesla develops underbody shield to better protect battery pack What happens to the battery structures if you constantly hit ... Quora https://www.quora.com › What-happens-to-the-battery-st... Sep 11, 2022 — The first built Tesla Model S vehicles had a problem of road debris sometimes puncturing the batteries. To solve this Tesla installs a titanium ... 4 answers · 1 vote: I don't think potholes will affect the battery structures, those are built very st Can pothole damage Tesla battery? The battery gets secured inside the protection box. If your car falls into a small pothole, the battery will not get damaged. But if the underfloor protection gets hurt badly, you must get it checked at once. Can an EV battery be damaged by potholes? - Park+ 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL February 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: I think there might be more fires in EVs if they were more popular and people could afford them. Fewer fires because fewer EVs. According to recent data from the U.S. Department of Energy, not much. In this graphic, we visualize light-duty vehicle registrations in 2022, broken out by fuel type. It shows that out of the 281 million cars registered nationally, electric (EV) and plug-in hybrid (PHEV) vehicles represented only 1.2%.Nov 21, 2023 Visualized: EV Market Share in the U.S. - Visual Capitalist Right now EV sales are plummeting downward in Europe led by Germany with a 46% plunge, while fossil fuel vehicles are seeing rapid sales increases. It looks like the age of EVs ended even before it began! I will loan my handkerchief to the sad Greenies.... Edited February 20 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,097 DM February 20 48 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Right now EV sales are plummeting downward in Europe led by Germany with a 46% plunge, while fossil fuel vehicles are seeing rapid sales increases. It looks like the age of EVs ended even before it began! I will loan my handkerchief to the sad Greenies.... the subject was EV fires......and ICE vehicle fires.......do you have problems reading ??????? try to stay on subject........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,652 RP February 21 10 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Right now EV sales are plummeting downward in Europe led by Germany with a 46% plunge, while fossil fuel vehicles are seeing rapid sales increases. It looks like the age of EVs ended even before it began! I will loan my handkerchief to the sad Greenies.... Nope wrong agian! Global EV Sales Break Record For January So much for cautious optimism on the state of the global electric vehicle market. Rho Motion crunched the numbers and came up with a record breaking sales pace of 660,000 electric vehicles sold globally in January. That was 12 months ago, back in January 2023. This year’s January EV sales blew past that mark by 69% for a total of more than 1 million. “In the EU & EFTA & UK, EV sales have grown by 29% y-o-y, 41% in the USA & Canada, and almost doubled in China,” Rho Motion added, with EFTA referring to the European Free Trade Association. Subsidy cuts in some jurisdictions had an impact on EV sales in January compared to December, but the impact did not offset the year-over-year gains. “In Germany, EV sales halved m-o-m following the end of the subsidy. However, y-o-y sales increased by 40%,” Rho Motion noted. “Likewise in France, EV sales also halved m-o-m but saw a 20% increase y-o-y.” 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 649 February 22 On 2/20/2024 at 4:43 PM, Ecocharger said: Right now EV sales are plummeting downward in Europe led by Germany with a 46% plunge, while fossil fuel vehicles are seeing rapid sales increases. It looks like the age of EVs ended even before it began! I will loan my handkerchief to the sad Greenies.... I want a clear playing field for the consumer to decide. Someday electric vehicles might make sense for more of us. The technology will improve for bothe ICE and electric vehicles. Small vehicles have a better chance at being electric. ICE engines can work on compressed natural gas, gasoline, or diesel. The biggest problem is government interference in allowing freedom of choice. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 649 February 22 On 2/20/2024 at 5:33 PM, notsonice said: the subject was EV fires......and ICE vehicle fires.......do you have problems reading ??????? try to stay on subject........ https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/salt-water-poses-fresh-concerns-over-electric-cars-and-fire/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL February 23 On 2/21/2024 at 4:36 AM, Rob Plant said: Nope wrong agian! Global EV Sales Break Record For January So much for cautious optimism on the state of the global electric vehicle market. Rho Motion crunched the numbers and came up with a record breaking sales pace of 660,000 electric vehicles sold globally in January. That was 12 months ago, back in January 2023. This year’s January EV sales blew past that mark by 69% for a total of more than 1 million. “In the EU & EFTA & UK, EV sales have grown by 29% y-o-y, 41% in the USA & Canada, and almost doubled in China,” Rho Motion added, with EFTA referring to the European Free Trade Association. Subsidy cuts in some jurisdictions had an impact on EV sales in January compared to December, but the impact did not offset the year-over-year gains. “In Germany, EV sales halved m-o-m following the end of the subsidy. However, y-o-y sales increased by 40%,” Rho Motion noted. “Likewise in France, EV sales also halved m-o-m but saw a 20% increase y-o-y.” This is the real story, EVs are now in a free fall plunging over a cliff. "In Germany, EV sales halved m-o-m following the end of the subsidy.” Rho Motion noted. “Likewise in France, EV sales also halved m-o-m .”" "Halving" in one month is an unheard of catastrophe. Caused by the end of subsidies and those subsidies are not coming back = continued disaster for EVs. Enjoy!!! 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,652 RP February 23 10 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: I want a clear playing field for the consumer to decide. Someday electric vehicles might make sense for more of us. The technology will improve for bothe ICE and electric vehicles. Small vehicles have a better chance at being electric. ICE engines can work on compressed natural gas, gasoline, or diesel. The biggest problem is government interference in allowing freedom of choice. Ron CNG just isnt practical, we've been over this many times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,652 RP February 23 7 hours ago, Ecocharger said: This is the real story, EVs are now in a free fall plunging over a cliff. "In Germany, EV sales halved m-o-m following the end of the subsidy.” Rho Motion noted. “Likewise in France, EV sales also halved m-o-m .”" "Halving" in one month is an unheard of catastrophe. Caused by the end of subsidies and those subsidies are not coming back = continued disaster for EVs. Enjoy!!! Keep basing your metric on 1 months sales and ignore the FACT they increased y-o-y by 40% as per your own post from earlier. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dmitry Bravo Molyer 0 February 23 Hi guys. Take a look at the official European statistics at Acea auto, you will see that EV market is good as well as ice car market is good. The only diesel car sales declining. The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association, or ACEA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL February 23 9 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Keep basing your metric on 1 months sales and ignore the FACT they increased y-o-y by 40% as per your own post from earlier. There is no running away from the fact that EV sales are in a current free-fall and halving in one month is a catastrophe of major proportions. The age of EVs has already come and gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,384 DL February 23 (edited) The possibility of rapid expansion of green energy is seriously circumscribed by legal requirements, none more complicated than this recent change. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Native-American-Tribes-Given-Power-To-Halt-Hydropower-Projects.html "The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) has granted Native American tribes more power to block hydropower projects on their lands if they oppose the plans. FERC has previously applied the general policy of granting permits to planned hydropower projects even where Tribes have raised issues over the impact of such projects, which require enormous amounts of water in areas such as the Southwest, where water is scarce. However, FERC denied last week preliminary permit applications for seven pumped storage hydroelectric projects proposed on Navajo Nation land, and said it has recently revised the “general policy of granting permits.” 79.5K India’s Refining Margins Slump as It Struggles to Secure Russian O Edited February 23 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 501 GE February 23 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: The possibility of rapid expansion of green energy is seriously circumscribed by legal requirements, none more complicated than this recent change. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Native-American-Tribes-Given-Power-To-Halt-Hydropower-Projects.html "The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) has granted Native American tribes more power to block hydropower projects on their lands if they oppose the plans. FERC has previously applied the general policy of granting permits to planned hydropower projects even where Tribes have raised issues over the impact of such projects, which require enormous amounts of water in areas such as the Southwest, where water is scarce. However, FERC denied last week preliminary permit applications for seven pumped storage hydroelectric projects proposed on Navajo Nation land, and said it has recently revised the “general policy of granting permits.” 79.5K India’s Refining Margins Slump as It Struggles to Secure Russian O They were denied preliminary permits, it clearly says that it denial of a preliminary permit does not prevent getting a full permit. "A denial on this basis is a matter of Commission discretion and is without prejudice. It does not preclude the applicant from working with the Tribe to resolve its concerns and resubmitting its applications if it is successful. We encourage NPF Arizona to continue to work with the Navajo Nation if NPF Arizona wishes to pursue the Black Mesa projects. A denial of a preliminary permit also does not preclude an applicant from developing and filing a license application with the Commission to be considered in full." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 February 23 (edited) 43 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: They were denied preliminary permits, it clearly says that it denial of a preliminary permit does not prevent getting a full permit. "A denial on this basis is a matter of Commission discretion and is without prejudice. It does not preclude the applicant from working with the Tribe to resolve its concerns and resubmitting its applications if it is successful. We encourage NPF Arizona to continue to work with the Navajo Nation if NPF Arizona wishes to pursue the Black Mesa projects. A denial of a preliminary permit also does not preclude an applicant from developing and filing a license application with the Commission to be considered in full." Frankly your wrong again, all Indian reservations are legally sovereign nations. The US government has no basis for any regulations on tribal reservations. Being raised in the prairie states it seems quite apparent the tribal leaders have the palms open looking for the highest bidder. It's a Great Spirit thingy....a old tradition wampun rules the day. Edited February 23 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 501 GE February 23 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Frankly your wrong again, all Indian reservations are legally sovereign nations. The US government has no basis for any regulations on tribal reservations. Being raised in the prairie states it seems quite apparent the tribal leaders have the palms open looking for the highest bidder. It's a Great Spirit thingy....a old tradition wampun rules the day. It should be obvious that the natives have to the ability to stop projects, but that does not mean they will stop all projects. Making money off the land is the most American thing you can do. Why is profit only a dirty word when they are native? "It does not preclude the applicant from working with the Tribe to resolve its concerns and resubmitting its applications" P.S. when telling someone they are wrong, spell you're correctly. Edited February 23 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,550 February 23 15 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: It should be obvious that the natives have to the ability to stop projects, but that does not mean they will stop all projects. Making money off the land is the most American thing you can do. Why is profit only a dirty word when they are native? "It does not preclude the applicant from working with the Tribe to resolve its concerns and resubmitting its applications" P.S. when telling someone they are wrong, spell you're correctly. Why bother? Perhaps I should have taken the time to grasp formal short hand, yet again why bother? Engaging with a rock always ends with the same results..articulation matters little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 649 February 24 (edited) 19 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Ron CNG just isnt practical, we've been over this many times Well there are still close to as many natural gas vehicles as there are electric vehicles and they move far more people and cargo than EVs do. Ships, trucks, buses, etc. You should do a little research some time instead of making unfounded claims. Natural gas is also substantially lower in pollutant emissions. It is or can be made available very easily, even from natural gas lines in homes. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/natural_gas.html#:~:text=Natural gas powers more than,roughly 23 million vehicles worldwide. https://ngvamerica.org/vehicles/ Edited February 24 by Ron Wagner 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 501 GE February 25 On 2/23/2024 at 9:49 PM, Ron Wagner said: Well there are still close to as many natural gas vehicles as there are electric vehicles and they move far more people and cargo than EVs do. Ships, trucks, buses, etc. You should do a little research some time instead of making unfounded claims. Natural gas is also substantially lower in pollutant emissions. It is or can be made available very easily, even from natural gas lines in homes. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/natural_gas.html#:~:text=Natural gas powers more than,roughly 23 million vehicles worldwide. https://ngvamerica.org/vehicles/ Did you just say natural gas can be made available from natural gas lines? That's like saying electricity can be made easily available from electrified power lines. What insight. I remember you mentioning your electric vehicle (e-bike); I doubt however, you own any natural gas vehicles. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,652 RP February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 4:49 AM, Ron Wagner said: Well there are still close to as many natural gas vehicles as there are electric vehicles and they move far more people and cargo than EVs do. Ships, trucks, buses, etc. You should do a little research some time instead of making unfounded claims. Natural gas is also substantially lower in pollutant emissions. It is or can be made available very easily, even from natural gas lines in homes. https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/natural_gas.html#:~:text=Natural gas powers more than,roughly 23 million vehicles worldwide. https://ngvamerica.org/vehicles/ Ron how many CNG vehicles do you own? How many do your neighbours own? If theyre so great why dont the big auto manufacturers have them on their lots? Yes they can be useful to transport goods but not practical for people also the range is only 150-250km and refuelling stations are few and far between. Also to replace a CNG tank could easily cost $4000 whilst the up front costs to buy one are similar to an EV. I do like the fact that their emissions are a lot better than regular ICE vehicles though. Advantages and Disadvantages of CNG (automovill.com) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 649 February 27 14 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Ron how many CNG vehicles do you own? How many do your neighbours own? If theyre so great why dont the big auto manufacturers have them on their lots? Yes they can be useful to transport goods but not practical for people also the range is only 150-250km and refuelling stations are few and far between. Also to replace a CNG tank could easily cost $4000 whilst the up front costs to buy one are similar to an EV. I do like the fact that their emissions are a lot better than regular ICE vehicles though. Advantages and Disadvantages of CNG (automovill.com) The only thing holding them back in America is the stupid policies that do not encourage them in large vehicles or small ones. I am not responsible for stupid policies or for the reasons they are in place. All I can do is inform people of the possibilities if better policies were in place. Obviously you prefer to ignore those possibilities and are misinformed on the basics. You quoted the highest priced tank and best tank a steel tank would do the job for far less. It is ridiculous to compare that to the cost of an EV battery if that would last twenty years. They are known to be cost prohibitive in many cases. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpp0agl3RJQ Tesla's $22,000 Battery Replacement | What You Need To KnowTesla's $22,000 Battery Replacement | What You Need To Knowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2fQHg20M8https://blog.skycng.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-cng-cylinders#:~:text=There are several sizes and,about 20 gallons of CNG Class 1 tank for $700. New https://www.ebay.com/itm/225452255844?itmmeta=01HQKXJS8JVCG2KHB6FWMC77JX&hash=item347e006a64:g:l0kAAOSwRlhj~UH8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwGuZ2QqDTcE7M48BrBfDg78y6V4anayjHOSi1%2FJT9RnyggtKsk9gXA6fskrdhawjKdf1QYkna61kg6xWMftdCr%2BFojzeYTelY6cWFC7fNROC5p6Ph7y9vwP7EK%2F4E2QHodNzCBESQyc2gFS8mERLYnmMwwGAi%2BAg0QZgHAM7Hm%2FmIh4GuQIaMvQQyxq2u22jTFBA6ur19C8CTJ4%2FKGY4683d4qDFFRAIttF3ns4pprzi5EFMeUfg8gahbdcRerPblg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7SUy_28Ywhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2fQHg20M8 $15, 800 and would be very unlikely to last twenty years! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,097 DM February 27 51 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said: The only thing holding them back in America is the stupid policies that do not encourage them in large vehicles or small ones. I am not responsible for stupid policies or for the reasons they are in place. All I can do is inform people of the possibilities if better policies were in place. Obviously you prefer to ignore those possibilities and are misinformed on the basics. You quoted the highest priced tank and best tank a steel tank would do the job for far less. It is ridiculous to compare that to the cost of an EV battery if that would last twenty years. They are known to be cost prohibitive in many cases. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpp0agl3RJQ Tesla's $22,000 Battery Replacement | What You Need To KnowTesla's $22,000 Battery Replacement | What You Need To Knowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2fQHg20M8https://blog.skycng.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-cng-cylinders#:~:text=There are several sizes and,about 20 gallons of CNG Class 1 tank for $700. New https://www.ebay.com/itm/225452255844?itmmeta=01HQKXJS8JVCG2KHB6FWMC77JX&hash=item347e006a64:g:l0kAAOSwRlhj~UH8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwGuZ2QqDTcE7M48BrBfDg78y6V4anayjHOSi1%2FJT9RnyggtKsk9gXA6fskrdhawjKdf1QYkna61kg6xWMftdCr%2BFojzeYTelY6cWFC7fNROC5p6Ph7y9vwP7EK%2F4E2QHodNzCBESQyc2gFS8mERLYnmMwwGAi%2BAg0QZgHAM7Hm%2FmIh4GuQIaMvQQyxq2u22jTFBA6ur19C8CTJ4%2FKGY4683d4qDFFRAIttF3ns4pprzi5EFMeUfg8gahbdcRerPblg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7SUy_28Ywhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2fQHg20M8 $15, 800 and would be very unlikely to last twenty years! Still stuck on CNG ?????? it is not happening for private individuals You yourself do not have a CNG powered car do you??? why not???? if they are so great please step up and buy one otherwise, move on old man, CNG cars is not happening...... pain in the butt compared to EV's which you can charge at home and you can charge with Green Energy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,652 RP February 27 8 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: The only thing holding them back in America is the stupid policies that do not encourage them in large vehicles or small ones. I am not responsible for stupid policies or for the reasons they are in place. All I can do is inform people of the possibilities if better policies were in place. Obviously you prefer to ignore those possibilities and are misinformed on the basics. You quoted the highest priced tank and best tank a steel tank would do the job for far less. It is ridiculous to compare that to the cost of an EV battery if that would last twenty years. They are known to be cost prohibitive in many cases. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpp0agl3RJQ Tesla's $22,000 Battery Replacement | What You Need To KnowTesla's $22,000 Battery Replacement | What You Need To Knowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2fQHg20M8https://blog.skycng.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-cng-cylinders#:~:text=There are several sizes and,about 20 gallons of CNG Class 1 tank for $700. New https://www.ebay.com/itm/225452255844?itmmeta=01HQKXJS8JVCG2KHB6FWMC77JX&hash=item347e006a64:g:l0kAAOSwRlhj~UH8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwGuZ2QqDTcE7M48BrBfDg78y6V4anayjHOSi1%2FJT9RnyggtKsk9gXA6fskrdhawjKdf1QYkna61kg6xWMftdCr%2BFojzeYTelY6cWFC7fNROC5p6Ph7y9vwP7EK%2F4E2QHodNzCBESQyc2gFS8mERLYnmMwwGAi%2BAg0QZgHAM7Hm%2FmIh4GuQIaMvQQyxq2u22jTFBA6ur19C8CTJ4%2FKGY4683d4qDFFRAIttF3ns4pprzi5EFMeUfg8gahbdcRerPblg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7SUy_28Ywhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2fQHg20M8 $15, 800 and would be very unlikely to last twenty years! Ron you fail to address the fundamentals with CNG on range anxiety, initial cost, massive lack of infrastructure etc etc All of these are improving with EV's but nothing is improving with CNG and is not likely to in the near or distant future unless you can show me how. The fact you dont own a CNG car but are a massive advocate of them speaks volumes of why they will never be mainstream. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeroen Goudswaard + 57 February 27 On 2/10/2024 at 2:41 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said: Are you insane? A $50k car loses $25k over 4 years... If you trade it in that is ALL you get.... That depreciation only happens if you hit 100,000 miles(160,000km) if you actually OWN the car... or ~$6000/year or $500/month for your scenario. If you actually OWN the car it is it is usually ~half that cost if private sale. Or, since your average home requires 2 cars if not 3 if you have Older children, you can buy 2 used cars 10 year old you can buy for ~ ALL in cost of $10k(including any deferred maintenance) per car with $5000 left over for a junker that runs for you kid. Those 3 cars will run without major maintenance for another 7 years @15,000 miles/year and far more likely is 15 years with some maintenance which is absurdly easy to do. If you can't figure out how to change out spark plugs etc, well that is your fault. Cost of owning used cars is literally 25% of your cost(Its actually far cheaper than this due to insurance costs, etc). Oh boo hoo, it is not new and ***might*** have a breakdown. So? Fix it. Not difficult. Why you have multiple cars to begin with. Last car I bought was a Honda Odyssey... I have paid $700 to fix it($120 was a new battery) and got it for free as it was not running and was headed to the scrapper... It has run for an additional 12 years now with the only addition of typical, brakes, oil, etc. 12 years/ $600 or $50/year... Not $500 per month or $6000/year. Want just as cheap? Buy a used police car. Can pick them up here in the USA for ~$5k-->8K with ~50k-->85k miles on them where near all of them are highway miles. You would have to be an IDIOT to buy new or LEASE, but millions do every year. Why? EGO-->PRIDE California: 2020 Ford F-150 XLT 3.5 EcoBoost, $41,610 + $4,000 reg fees = $45,610 Edmunds website range: for a car with 60,000 miles. $19k - $21k. That's ~50% loss in 4 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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