E-car Sales Collapse

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

16 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

The only thing holding them back in America is the stupid policies that do not encourage them in large vehicles or small ones. I am not responsible for stupid policies or for the reasons they are in place.

There are no policies holding back natural gas.  You do seem, however, to want a subsidy for encouragement.  Fact is if there was a market for them companies would step up and make them.  You never even see propane cars anymore because nobody wants them.

[Ron Wagner + 709]

https://dailycaller.com/2024/02/27/major-tech-company-slams-brakes-electric-vehicle-efforts-demand-dries-up/ Apple drops out of quest for a self driving car. 

[Ron Wagner + 709]

14 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Ron you fail to address the fundamentals with CNG on range anxiety, initial cost, massive lack of infrastructure etc etc

All of these are improving with EV's but nothing is improving with CNG and is not likely to in the near or distant future unless you can show me how.

The fact you dont own a CNG car but are a massive advocate of them speaks volumes of why they will never be mainstream.

I do not have a qualified mechanic that is familiar with the conversions or certified in that. It is a simple process but practice and study are a good idea. Electric vehicle owners are suffering from the same problems.  I live in a town of about 75,000 people, just not big enough to find help for many things. I am not mechanically inclined or would do it myself and fill up from my own gas line. I wish I could have converted my NV3500 12 person van. I have 80,000 miles on it now and am done with my major trips, I have been to all 50 states plus Canada and Mexico. 

[Ron Wagner + 709]

On 2/20/2024 at 2:58 PM, notsonice said:

I looked at buying an VW ID 4...they have not switched to LFP yet .....the EVs are evolving for the good

and the undercarriage protection........well a thin sheet of aluminum does not stop punctures into the batteries from debris on a freeway..... too many loud thumps when hitting debris  on the freeway and we all know to look under our cars to see if we wiped anything out...Tesla has a different approach

 

 

 

What is the undercarriage battery shield made from?

Volkswagen ID Forum

https://www.vwidtalk.com › ... › Volkswagen ID.4

 

 

 

May 23, 2022 — ... undercarriage battery shield. It appears to be made of aluminum 1/4 ... VW to meet new EV credit restrictions with battery materials from Canada.

 

In response to the fires that occurred last year, Tesla has developed a fix for the Model S that makes the battery pack virtually impenetrable to road debris: a three-layer battery shield made of ballistic-grade aluminum and titanium.

 

Tesla develops underbody shield to better protect battery pack

What happens to the battery structures if you constantly hit ...

Quora

https://www.quora.com › What-happens-to-the-battery-st...

 

 

 

Sep 11, 2022 — The first built Tesla Model S vehicles had a problem of road debris sometimes puncturing the batteries. To solve this Tesla installs a titanium ...

 

4 answers  ·  1 vote: I don't think potholes will affect the battery structures, those are built very st

 

Can pothole damage Tesla battery?

 

 

The battery gets secured inside the protection box. If your car falls into a small pothole, the battery will not get damaged. But if the underfloor protection gets hurt badly, you must get it checked at once.

 

Can an EV battery be damaged by potholes? - Park+

 

I was driving on a very busy freeway in Louisville in an old Cadillac I was gifted by a good friend. I could not avoid running over a  oil pan that had probably bounced off of a pickup. I noticed I was losing gasoline and  pulled over to check it out. I sure was and was lucky enough to find a young man working on his own car in a shop on a Sunday. He asked if we had any soap, fortunately we did, he climbed under the leaking gas tank and formed a clot that stopped the leak for the last 200 miles of our trip home in a light rain! It was easily fixed by a local mechanic. 

[Ron Wagner + 709]

15 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Ron you fail to address the fundamentals with CNG on range anxiety, initial cost, massive lack of infrastructure etc etc

All of these are improving with EV's but nothing is improving with CNG and is not likely to in the near or distant future unless you can show me how.

The fact you dont own a CNG car but are a massive advocate of them speaks volumes of why they will never be mainstream.

You say that ICE cars are not making any progress? I think they are fabulous compared to my first new car which was a simple 1967 six cylinder with stick transmission. I went through three clutch springs just from heavy foot on the clutch. No PCV valve until I was forced to add one myself. No air conditioning either. Any compact car, though smaller, wold be a far far better vehicle that gets far better mileage. It would also be about the same price in real dollar value. 

The Chinese can do the trick at the right price with EVs , I hear the quality is pretty poor on those but would seriously consider one that had a good record if China was mending its ways. I may never need another vehicle since I have three in all sizes already. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

14 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

I do not have a qualified mechanic that is familiar with the conversions or certified in that. It is a simple process but practice and study are a good idea. Electric vehicle owners are suffering from the same problems.  I live in a town of about 75,000 people, just not big enough to find help for many things. I am not mechanically inclined or would do it myself and fill up from my own gas line. I wish I could have converted my NV3500 12 person van. I have 80,000 miles on it now and am done with my major trips, I have been to all 50 states plus Canada and Mexico. 

Ron you answer your own questions about CNG vehicles! There is no demand for them, therefore no infrastructure, nobody to repair or convert them etc etc. There is no growth in the market for them either so nothing is going to change!

Face it theyre a dead duck as far as major transportation is concerned.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

14 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

You say that ICE cars are not making any progress? I think they are fabulous compared to my first new car which was a simple 1967 six cylinder with stick transmission. I went through three clutch springs just from heavy foot on the clutch. No PCV valve until I was forced to add one myself. No air conditioning either. Any compact car, though smaller, wold be a far far better vehicle that gets far better mileage. It would also be about the same price in real dollar value. 

The Chinese can do the trick at the right price with EVs , I hear the quality is pretty poor on those but would seriously consider one that had a good record if China was mending its ways. I may never need another vehicle since I have three in all sizes already. 

Ron I stated there was no improvement with CNG vehicles not ICE as such. ICE vehicles (gas/diesel) are by far the most popular at present and have had over a century of improvements, CNG not so much as they arent required.

[Ron Wagner + 709]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Ron I stated there was no improvement with CNG vehicles not ICE as such. ICE vehicles (gas/diesel) are by far the most popular at present and have had over a century of improvements, CNG not so much as they arent required.

Tell Westport that and all the other large engineering companies that have been building and fine tuning CNG and LNG vehicles for many decades. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

20 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Ron I stated there was no improvement with CNG vehicles not ICE as such. ICE vehicles (gas/diesel) are by far the most popular at present and have had over a century of improvements, CNG not so much as they arent required.

Ron your view would be far more credible if you did as I asked previously and detailed the improvements CNG vehicles have made over the last 50 years. Sending a rolling eye because you disagree but dont actually have any improvements tell me that I'm right and you dont have anything.

So specifically what are the improvements Westport and other have made that make CNG a viable form of mainstream transportation. Also explain why you dont own such a vehicle if you advocate them.

Edited February 29 by Rob Plant

[Ron Wagner + 709]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Ron your view would be far more credible if you did as I asked previously and detailed the improvements CNG vehicles have made over the last 50 years. Sending a rolling eye because you disagree but dont actually have any improvements tell me that I'm right and you dont have anything.

So specifically what are the improvements Westport and other have made that make CNG a viable form of mainstream transportation. Also explain why you dont own such a vehicle if you advocate them.

 

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Ron your view would be far more credible if you did as I asked previously and detailed the improvements CNG vehicles have made over the last 50 years. Sending a rolling eye because you disagree but dont actually have any improvements tell me that I'm right and you dont have anything.

So specifically what are the improvements Westport and other have made that make CNG a viable form of mainstream transportation. Also explain why you don't own such a vehicle if you advocate them.

I have spent years collecting stories about natural gas and its advantages and uses. Thousands of articles read and available on allmyrants.org . You are welcome to peruse them. I do not have time to become a pseudo engineer. I leave that up to you who are educated in that field. My job is to collate the information, for no profit. 

Westport is a great place to start https://wfsinc.com/ 

https://wfsinc.com/technology/hpdi

SERVING OVER

70

COUNTRIES

MORE THAN

1400

PATENTS & APPLICATIONS

OEM

23

CUSTOMERS

INNOVATING FOR MORE THAN

64

YEARS

Edited February 29 by Ron Wagner

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:42 PM, notsonice said:

veteran ??? of what??? Military??? nope yet you pawned off here you are a real vet

reality you  do not get any medals  nor are you a hero for being a Vet in oil

 

as far as your shove it up yours........sounds like you got a big stick up yours already

 

PS how is Greenview 1 Geothermal coming along.......scam scam scam....never went into construction

 

or is it producing today???? ha ha ha  a pipe dream 

Alberta No. 1?????? dead 

 

your expertise?????

Canadian geothermal tech will lead the world?????

20 $1M dollar wells can produce electricity with the surface equipment, 24hr/day...and yet your dream project is dead...

reality

oh boy are you still  waiting for your grand dreams to be built.....in the meantime as solar and wind with batteries are taking over.....

Drillers need to retrain to install solar panels or they can clean toilets

 

Lol. Pilot project.

Do you know what that means, numbskull? 

There's some utopia (nowhere) that batteries and intermittent junk is taking over? Where is that again? Certainly not Germany or anywhere with serious demand requirements. 

Listen, you might like lithium & cobalt in your batteries, but the slaves that dig it out by hand don't. Either nuclear, geothermal, or good ol hydrocarbons are the best and most efficient way to produce high density energy. 

Drilling is gonna be happening for decades yet, @notsonice, ya peiceofshit.

[notsonice + 1,255]

13 hours ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Lol. Pilot project.

Do you know what that means, numbskull? 

There's some utopia (nowhere) that batteries and intermittent junk is taking over? Where is that again? Certainly not Germany or anywhere with serious demand requirements. 

Listen, you might like lithium & cobalt in your batteries, but the slaves that dig it out by hand don't. Either nuclear, geothermal, or good ol hydrocarbons are the best and most efficient way to produce high density energy. 

Drilling is gonna be happening for decades yet, @notsonice, ya peiceofshit.

Pilot project???

yep going nowhere fast

renewables keep eating your lunch

the slaves that dig it out by hand???? keep babbling idiot, it is all you have left

Edited March 4 by notsonice

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

7 hours ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Listen, you might like lithium & cobalt in your batteries, but the slaves that dig it out by hand don't. Either nuclear, geothermal, or good ol hydrocarbons are the best and most efficient way to produce high density energy.

Remember now, ICE vehicles require catalytic converters containing very rare elements.  Lithium is super easy to find compared to those elements so perhaps you employ some of those "slave [miners]" yourself.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

Well, BYD BEV Passenger car sales per month went from +200,000 to 50,000 this past February and its still going down...

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

20 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Remember now, ICE vehicles require catalytic converters containing very rare elements.  Lithium is super easy to find compared to those elements so perhaps you employ some of those "slave [miners]" yourself.

Platinum in the DPF muffler gets cut out and straight piped immediately in my diesels. Your cobalt from Congolese slaves' blood is on your hands. 

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

On 3/4/2024 at 3:39 AM, notsonice said:

Pilot project???

yep going nowhere fast

renewables keep eating your lunch

the slaves that dig it out by hand???? keep babbling idiot, it is all you have left

Yes. The pilot project is coming online this year. 

 

Here, dummy. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara

[notsonice + 1,255]

28 minutes ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Yes. The pilot project is coming online this year. 

 

Here, dummy. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara

pilot??? big deal..........

pilot means trying to prove up a concept or a pipedream....solar and wind eat your pilot projects lunch for a snack

posting about the Congo...................oh boy the worlds mines are all in the Congo?????

You are grabbing at straws with your pilot and your Congo babble

Moron, try to stay relevant

25 Century Vet of what ???? You must be proud that you are a 25 year vet of toilet scrubbing 

[notsonice + 1,255]

39 minutes ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Platinum in the DPF muffler gets cut out and straight piped immediately in my diesels. Your cobalt from Congolese slaves' blood is on your hands. 

DPF muffler gets cut out and straight piped??? and you do this because you enjoy crappy emissions...got it

Edited March 5 by notsonice

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

2 hours ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Platinum in the DPF muffler gets cut out and straight piped immediately in my diesels. Your cobalt from Congolese slaves' blood is on your hands. 

Its true that the main use for cobalt are batteries but they are also used widely in the below, so have these industries got blood on their hands too???

Cobalt (Co) is a metal used in numerous diverse commercial, industrial, and military applications, many of which are strategic and critical.  On a global basis, the leading use of cobalt is in rechargeable battery electrodes.  Superalloys, which are used to make parts for gas turbine engines, are another major use for cobalt.  Cobalt is also used to make airbags in automobiles; catalysts for the petroleum and chemical industries; cemented carbides (also called hardmetals) and diamond tools; corrosion- and wear-resistant alloys; drying agents for paints, varnishes, and inks; dyes and pigments; ground coats for porcelain enamels; high-speed steels; magnetic recording media; magnets; and steel-belted radial tires.

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

3 hours ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Platinum in the DPF muffler gets cut out and straight piped immediately in my diesels. Your cobalt from Congolese slaves' blood is on your hands. 

They still made the catalytic converter / DPF you know - just because you cut it out to make your truck illegal and extra polluting changes nothing for the Pt miners. 

If you don't like icing on your cake shaving it off and throwing it in the trash doesn't mean the icing was never made or applied to the cake with care; all you did is increase the amount of waste while destroying someones work.

FYI Canada is the 5th largest nation in regards to cobalt production.  Our mines help prevent that child labour.  When you combine that with ethical purchasing practices you shouldn't feel guilty for using cobalt here.

Edited March 5 by TailingsPond

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Its true that the main use for cobalt are batteries but they are also used widely in the below, so have these industries got blood on their hands too???

He pretends nobody dies in the oil industry too. Nor does he accept that his "rolling coal" truck is killing children and the elderly.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

12 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

He pretends nobody dies in the oil industry too. Nor does he accept that his "rolling coal" truck is killing children and the elderly.

There are roughly ~100 killed in USA oil & gas industry every year.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6420a4.htm  2/3 -->3/4 of them are driving to and from site.  about 10 or 15 die due to burns, 8-10 due to chemical exposure and ~5 from onsite machinery.  Number varies every year.  https://jpt.spe.org/iogp-releases-2021-safety-data   This one shows just those who actually died due to oil related and not transportation related.  Most of the burns are from refineries which aren't going anywhere even if the products IN said refineries are from "renewable" power sources. 

This industry is ~75%--> 85% of ALL energy used by USA. 

In Electrical industry in USA roughly ~300 die every year, most due to HIGH(240V) voltage.  Western Europe, with near identical population has ~800-->1000 die every year.  Both have civilian deaths in here and really shows why 120V for most common things is a very good thing.  This stat is from memory when I worked as an electrician apprentice and was going through a safety course over the summer and does not include transportation to from job site like the stat above from CDC.  

This industry is ~ 33% of all energy used by USA, but also includes residential in totals so, not apples to apples.

Wind power USA ~10% of electrical energy--> Can't find any real data.  I have been out of said industry long enough my contacts are all gone.  Paul Gipe's numbers are complete horseshit in case you stumble over them by the way...   Yea, I met the guy and he claimed to be about safety back then too... he is a fraud. 

Look up UK's numbers.  https://scotlandagainstspin.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Turbine-Accident-Summary-to-31-March-2022.pdf

Even People in UK can't really get them as they are "classified differently compared to other industires: but this is what link above has cobbled together as best they could.  227 dead since ~2000 but only 134 are from Wind turbine construction, maintenance, rest due to travel.  If you scroll down fatalities initially were high and have since dropped down to below 10 per year and last decade seem to average around 5-->6 a year for the UK. 

UK Capacity for wind is ~29GW.  = 5-->6 deaths a year.  USA with ~140GW providing roughly 10% of power = 22 deaths a year.

Above is a MINIMUM as the UK numbers are only what the guys could actually find since there is no "official" tally.

So, Oil/Gas = ~75%-->85% = 25 deaths ~10 of them every year are from refineries which are not going anywhere

Wind, = 10% electrical which is ~1/3 of actual power required so 3% has 22 deaths based on UK averages......

So Wind to provide 81% of power in USA would have equivalent number of deaths of ~+++1000 a year or so compared oil&gas's ~100 a year. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

There are roughly ~100 killed in USA oil & gas industry every year.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6420a4.htm  2/3 -->3/4 of them are driving to and from site.  about 10 or 15 die due to burns, 8-10 due to chemical exposure and ~5 from onsite machinery.  Number varies every year.  https://jpt.spe.org/iogp-releases-2021-safety-data   This one shows just those who actually died due to oil related and not transportation related.  Most of the burns are from refineries which aren't going anywhere even if the products IN said refineries are from "renewable" power sources. 

This industry is ~75%--> 85% of ALL energy used by USA. 

In Electrical industry in USA roughly ~300 die every year, most due to HIGH(240V) voltage.  Western Europe, with near identical population has ~800-->1000 die every year.  Both have civilian deaths in here and really shows why 120V for most common things is a very good thing.  This stat is from memory when I worked as an electrician apprentice and was going through a safety course over the summer and does not include transportation to from job site like the stat above from CDC.  

This industry is ~ 33% of all energy used by USA, but also includes residential in totals so, not apples to apples.

Wind power USA ~10% of electrical energy--> Can't find any real data.  I have been out of said industry long enough my contacts are all gone.  Paul Gipe's numbers are complete horseshit in case you stumble over them by the way...   Yea, I met the guy and he claimed to be about safety back then too... he is a fraud. 

Look up UK's numbers.  https://scotlandagainstspin.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Turbine-Accident-Summary-to-31-March-2022.pdf

Even People in UK can't really get them as they are "classified differently compared to other industires: but this is what link above has cobbled together as best they could.  227 dead since ~2000 but only 134 are from Wind turbine construction, maintenance, rest due to travel.  If you scroll down fatalities initially were high and have since dropped down to below 10 per year and last decade seem to average around 5-->6 a year for the UK. 

UK Capacity for wind is ~29GW.  = 5-->6 deaths a year.  USA with ~140GW providing roughly 10% of power = 22 deaths a year.

Above is a MINIMUM as the UK numbers are only what the guys could actually find since there is no "official" tally.

So, Oil/Gas = ~75%-->85% = 25 deaths ~10 of them every year are from refineries which are not going anywhere

Wind, = 10% electrical which is ~1/3 of actual power required so 3% has 22 deaths based on UK averages......

So Wind to provide 81% of power in USA would have equivalent number of deaths of ~+++1000 a year or so compared oil&gas's ~100 a year. 

Coal is by far the worst in the US!

Forget Eagle Deaths, Wind Turbines Kill Humans (forbes.com)

[TailingsPond + 1,007]

8 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

There are roughly ~100 killed in USA oil & gas industry every year.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6420a4.htm  2/3 -->3/4 of them are driving to and from site.  about 10 or 15 die due to burns, 8-10 due to chemical exposure and ~5 from onsite machinery.  Number varies every year.  https://jpt.spe.org/iogp-releases-2021-safety-data   This one shows just those who actually died due to oil related and not transportation related.  Most of the burns are from refineries which aren't going anywhere even if the products IN said refineries are from "renewable" power sources. 

This industry is ~75%--> 85% of ALL energy used by USA. 

In Electrical industry in USA roughly ~300 die every year, most due to HIGH(240V) voltage.  Western Europe, with near identical population has ~800-->1000 die every year.  Both have civilian deaths in here and really shows why 120V for most common things is a very good thing.  This stat is from memory when I worked as an electrician apprentice and was going through a safety course over the summer and does not include transportation to from job site like the stat above from CDC.  

This industry is ~ 33% of all energy used by USA, but also includes residential in totals so, not apples to apples.

Wind power USA ~10% of electrical energy--> Can't find any real data.  I have been out of said industry long enough my contacts are all gone.  Paul Gipe's numbers are complete horseshit in case you stumble over them by the way...   Yea, I met the guy and he claimed to be about safety back then too... he is a fraud. 

Look up UK's numbers.  https://scotlandagainstspin.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Turbine-Accident-Summary-to-31-March-2022.pdf

Even People in UK can't really get them as they are "classified differently compared to other industires: but this is what link above has cobbled together as best they could.  227 dead since ~2000 but only 134 are from Wind turbine construction, maintenance, rest due to travel.  If you scroll down fatalities initially were high and have since dropped down to below 10 per year and last decade seem to average around 5-->6 a year for the UK. 

UK Capacity for wind is ~29GW.  = 5-->6 deaths a year.  USA with ~140GW providing roughly 10% of power = 22 deaths a year.

Above is a MINIMUM as the UK numbers are only what the guys could actually find since there is no "official" tally.

So, Oil/Gas = ~75%-->85% = 25 deaths ~10 of them every year are from refineries which are not going anywhere

Wind, = 10% electrical which is ~1/3 of actual power required so 3% has 22 deaths based on UK averages......

So Wind to provide 81% of power in USA would have equivalent number of deaths of ~+++1000 a year or so compared oil&gas's ~100 a year. 

Where is your count of the particulate matter deaths? Literally millions of deaths.  The guy removes pollution control devices intended to reduce particulate matter.

Ask yourself why are they there in the first place?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9223652/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates

Nice "math" there bud.  Just completely ignore variables, or do any actual math.  When your "math" uses so many tilde symbols and the words "roughly or "about" in nearly every sentence is it even math?  I challenge you to count the number of times you used "~", "roughly", "about", or ranges in that garbage.  Sometimes you even combine the tilde with a range "~75%-->85%."  You have to approximate a range?

~ Complete crap. Lets say "~2" is anywhere from 1 to 3; that means "~2 times ~2" is anywhere from one to nine (1x1, 3x3). 

Try again, try harder, fail harder.

Edited March 6 by TailingsPond

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

14 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Coal is by far the worst in the US!

Forget Eagle Deaths, Wind Turbines Kill Humans (forbes.com)

Yes, Coal has almost as many deaths per year as Oil/Gas industry(especially if we ignore the refining portion which is the majority of the deaths and will still exist even if we go 100% solar), yet provides a fraction of the power making Coal far worse.  Coal is still vastly safer than Wind per GWh produced.  Solar--> Safest by FAR in the world.  No giant machines, no giant moving parts, no giant digging or tunneling. Almost zero maintenance, Not high up in the air on ropes, ladders, cranes(if we ignore solar installations on residential roofs which still kills a lot of people and ONLY look at commercial installations).  Other than Nuclear, solar is by far the safest energy source(not power source unless one includes batteries/NG and their associated deaths from mining those minerals).  Nuclear is still the safest power source in the world.  Now if only we can get the dipshit politico hoes out of the way to develop Breeder Liquid Salt reactors eating all available Uranium/Thorium and nuclear waste.  Now if only we can figure out how to make solar panels recyclable.  Aluminum/Glass recycle just fine, but all that glue/silicon/nickel/silver screws it up for the glass portion of recycling.