notsonice + 1,255 DM May 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: European-destined EVs are piling up at ports of entry, helplessly waiting for dealers to take them on. Demand for EVs has collapsed in Europe. Demand for EVs has collapsed in Europe.?????? the article you posted has zero info to support your BS, as usual can you have someone read to you the article you are referencing firs???????t...........instead of making up stuff https://qz.com/cars-european-ports-slow-sales-bottlenecks-1851397116#:~:text=Imported vehicles are seriously piling,buildup of new%2C unsold vehicles. looks like the ports are free parking zones until the car is sold .........why move it to a place where it is not needed....just move it once to the new owners house..... lol you forgot to post the reason why vehicles are piling up....and from your article.............. your article has no info on EV sales in the EU whatsover a pile-up of Chinese electric cars as one of the leading causes of the problem, with some companies booking shipping delivery slots without ordering onward transportation. In other instances, carmakers in general are struggling to order trucks because of the lack of drivers and equipment to move the vehicles on. “Car distributors are increasingly using the port’s car parks as a depot. Instead of stocking the cars at the dealers, they are collected at the car terminal,” said the Port of Antwerp-Bruges, whose port at Zeebrugge is Europe’s busiest port for car imports. “All major car ports” were struggling with congestion, the port added, without specifying the origin of the vehicles. One car logistics expert said many of the unloaded vehicles were simply staying in the ports until they were sold to distributors or end users. Cui Dongshu, the secretary-general of the China Passenger Car Association, told FT that inland shipping into European markets is proving difficult for Chinese EV makers. The clogging up of car terminals comes as many of China’s carmakers, such as BYD, Great Wall, Chery and SAIC, are planning an export push to Europe, both to keep their factories in China running and to capitalise on the region’s appetite for electric cars. Edited May 7 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 7 (edited) 2024 sales of cars in the EU https://www.autoevolution.com/news/europe-passenger-car-sales-the-ev-cool-down-is-such-a-twisted-story-233422.html EVs Plugins and Hybrids much greater than Petrol and Diesel combined Demand for oil in the EU......decreasing every day YTD EV sales are up Plugin Hybrid sales are up Non Plug in Hybrids sales are up Petrol cars (clunkers) sales are down Diesel...sales are down over 10 percent The European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA) publishes monthly European passenger car registration statistics. Starting from 2022, these statistics became more relevant because they take into account the major powertrain types. I challenge you to dive into the numbers and debunk the assertions that EV sales are on the verge of collapse. Edited May 7 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 707 May 9 On 5/3/2024 at 4:38 AM, Rob Plant said: I wonder if a brand new EV for $10K will trigger "E-car Sales Collapse" just as Mark Lawson predicted when he started this thread? Ahh the joys of technology, innovation and good old fashioned competition. Mark I think you forgot all 3 of these. I would buy a reliable $10,000 EV if I needed a car but I do not see any chance of one being marketed in the USA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP May 9 8 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: I would buy a reliable $10,000 EV if I needed a car but I do not see any chance of one being marketed in the USA. Is that purely because of protectionism and the US putting on hefty duties to help local manufacturers like Tesla remain competitive? Ahh the free market, if only it existed! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 May 18 On 5/8/2024 at 6:16 PM, Ron Wagner said: I would buy a reliable $10,000 EV if I needed a car but I do not see any chance of one being marketed in the USA. Sure... except you used the world "reliable". To sell for $10k, you have to make it for $3k or more likely $2k. 4 tires today would set you back $500 alone. The batteries by themselves would cost more than $2k----> So NO, it would not be "reliable" and it certainly would not have range nor would it charge fast. Technically we have batteries which CAN charge fast, but are VERY expensive and not energy dense and are very INEFFICIENT(78% at best) when charging and why no one puts them in a car. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 707 May 25 On 5/18/2024 at 4:00 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said: Sure... except you used the world "reliable". To sell for $10k, you have to make it for $3k or more likely $2k. 4 tires today would set you back $500 alone. The batteries by themselves would cost more than $2k----> So NO, it would not be "reliable" and it certainly would not have range nor would it charge fast. Technically we have batteries which CAN charge fast, but are VERY expensive and not energy dense and are very INEFFICIENT(78% at best) when charging and why no one puts them in a car. Waiting to see low priced Chinese EVs marketed in the West. China is a very questionable economic partner that does not share Western values. So we need to let them market to the Third World. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,007 GE May 25 On 5/9/2024 at 3:54 AM, Rob Plant said: Is that purely because of protectionism and the US putting on hefty duties to help local manufacturers like Tesla remain competitive? Ahh the free market, if only it existed! Maybe, sometimes cheap vehicle imports are prohibited because they do not meet the safety laws. New cars must have airbags, ABS, rear backup cameras, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 May 25 11 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: Waiting to see low priced Chinese EVs marketed in the West. China is a very questionable economic partner that does not share Western values. So we need to let them market to the Third World. Crash worthiness is complete crap. I would drive an ancient caprice classic getting 12mpg, zero airbags, big as a barge rather than drive a chinese deathtrap. Seems half the cars if you get hit on drivers side front you are now sporting a new wheel in your lap and no legs. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,473 DL May 25 12 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: Waiting to see low priced Chinese EVs marketed in the West. China is a very questionable economic partner that does not share Western values. So we need to let them market to the Third World. The Third World lacks any electrical infrastructure to support EVs. It looks like EVs have nowhere to go... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,007 GE May 25 What countries do you guys consider 3rd world? Any nation that is not predominately caucasian? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 707 May 26 9 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Crash worthiness is complete crap. I would drive an ancient caprice classic getting 12mpg, zero airbags, big as a barge rather than drive a chinese deathtrap. Seems half the cars if you get hit on drivers side front you are now sporting a new wheel in your lap and no legs. Good point, but i haven't seen any test results. The Caprice was a great car. I sold one loaded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,058 ML May 26 On 5/8/2024 at 4:23 AM, notsonice said: I challenge you to dive into the numbers and debunk the assertions that EV sales are on the verge of collapse. Sorry notsonice but go back and look at the figures you cite on ev sales. Run your eyes over the columns. Actually there seems to be general decline. Its not marked I agree but its meant to be going the other way. The market is becoming saturated and a collapse - okay, a general rerating - is on the cards. This is the point made by various commentators in my most recent post Bad news for e-cars keeps on coming. The e-car market is in deep, deep trouble. Instead of these silly attempts to hold back the tide, maybe a concession or two might help with credibility. The problems don't seem to apply to hybrids of various types. Consumers would certainly have far less objection to them and there are no horror stories about them. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 26 (edited) 42 minutes ago, markslawson said: Sorry notsonice but go back and look at the figures you cite on ev sales. Run your eyes over the columns. Actually there seems to be general decline. Its not marked I agree but its meant to be going the other way. The market is becoming saturated and a collapse - okay, a general rerating - is on the cards. This is the point made by various commentators in my most recent post Bad news for e-cars keeps on coming. The e-car market is in deep, deep trouble. Instead of these silly attempts to hold back the tide, maybe a concession or two might help with credibility. The problems don't seem to apply to hybrids of various types. Consumers would certainly have far less objection to them and there are no horror stories about them. you are one slow person general decline????? collapse??? dude, lay off the weed China is booming in EVs and they are booming in low cost EVs.......coming to your local dealer soon https://www.marklines.com/en/report/statistics_evsales_202404 Electric Vehicle (BEV/PHV/FCV) Sales Monthly Report (April 2024) Electric vehicle sales in April increase 27.2% y/y to 1,026,000 units Sales of electric vehicles in the 12 major countries and the 3 Nordic countries of Norway, Sweden, and Finland (15 countries in total) reached 1.026 million units in April. Year-over-year (y/y), the number of units sold increased by 27.2% The market share of electric vehicles was 21.0% in April, a further increase of 1.3 points over the previous month. Sales volumes of electric vehicles by country (000 units) Country 2023 2024 Apr. Apr. China 518 706 US 116 127 Germany 41 45 12 more rows • 2 days ago Electric Vehicle (BEV/PHV/FCV) Sales Monthly Report (April ... MarkLines https://www.marklines.com › ... › Market & Tech Reports Edited May 26 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 26 lower prices ...lead to higher sales get used to EVs .......market share is increasing and prices decreasing................. Clunkers are doomed Yahoo Finance China's EV price war spreads overseas as carmakers chase market share, higher profit margins 1 day ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 26 (edited) clunkers are doomed one of the highlights Against this background there is a drop in the sales of ICE cars and this is being felt particularly by the joint ventures in China. Last year SAIC GM sales fell be 14.5%, GAC Honda’s by 13.7% and SAIC Volkswagen by 8%. March data shows that ICE cars that in past were sales champions had rapidly falling sales with results like the Toyota Camry down by 59.2% and VW Lavida down by 36.4%. https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/20/chinas-ev-sales-now-over-50/ China's EV sales now over 50% CarNewsChina.com https://carnewschina.com › 2024/04/20 › chinas-ev-sale... Apr 20, 2024 — During April 1-14 sales of EV and PHEV in China were over 50% of all cars sales. China may well achieve over half for 2024. Edited May 26 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 May 26 20 hours ago, markslawson said: The problems don't seem to apply to hybrids of various types. Consumers would certainly have far less objection to them and there are no horror stories about them. Other than hybrids poor reliability, high maintenance costs, and HIGH upfront costs you mean, for some all consuming ~nebulous non quantifiable unjustifiable goal.. Technically in a hybrid you get better fuel mileage if you city drive a lot. Highway it does not help, rather it hurts. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,007 GE May 26 (edited) 31 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Technically in a hybrid you get better fuel mileage if you city drive a lot. Highway it does not help, rather it hurts. I compared the ICE Toyota Camry and the hybrid Camry. The hybrid gets way better fuel economy both city and highway and has 5 more HP. ICE 33/46/38 (City/Highway/Combined mpg) 203HP Hybrid 58/59/58 (City/Highway/Combined mpg) 208HP It is not even close. 76% better economy in city, 52% better on highway than ICE. Plus a small HP bonus. https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/camry/models-specifications?specs=CAM:2024 Pesky data... Edited May 26 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,058 ML May 27 22 hours ago, notsonice said: you are one slow person general decline????? collapse??? dude, lay off the weed China is booming in EVs and they are booming in low cost EVs.......coming to your local dealer soon I see you've switched into total denial mode. I had to look up my original post which has a headline "collapse". Maybe that is an exaggeration to prove a point but look at what is being said in the story. I will grant you that the sales figure for the Nordic countries you cite are the exception to the rule. In Norway, in particular, this is due to vast subsidies. One estimate I saw is that they amount to about half the cost of the car - usually in taxes forgone. This is backed up by an extremely extensive system of recharging points, many of which actually work. Even then there is some anecdotal evidence that the EV is always a second car. As for the Chinese figures, there have been indications that these maybe at least partly fictitious. Manufacturers get subsidies for selling cars they've made so they make sure they are sold. Regrettably I'm not sure where the debate finished on that point but the Chinese figures certainly can't be relied on. As I noted, its probably best to quietly agree that EVs are going to remain a niche part of the market and move on. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,058 ML May 27 2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Other than hybrids poor reliability, high maintenance costs, and HIGH upfront costs you mean, for some all consuming ~nebulous non quantifiable unjustifiable goal.. Technically in a hybrid you get better fuel mileage if you city drive a lot. Highway it does not help, rather it hurts. I was just comparing them to EVs which have had real horror press. Anyway, I accept your points.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,007 GE May 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, markslawson said: I was just comparing them to EVs which have had real horror press. Anyway, I accept your points.. Why would you accept his points? I clearly showed his error in MPG. His only valid point was that a hybrid is more expensive, but that are not that much more. Edited May 27 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,007 GE May 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, markslawson said: I see you've switched into total denial mode. I had to look up my original post which has a headline "collapse". Maybe that is an exaggeration to prove a point You deny that EVs are doing well and lie to support your biases. Exaggeration is spreading false information - you can not prove a point with fake data. Edited May 27 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,058 ML May 27 3 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: You deny that EVs are doing well and lie to support your biases. Exaggeration is spreading false information. Nope - its the Chinese spreading false information. I've linked a couple of stories on the other thread - and you're becoming hysterical again. Take deep breaths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,007 GE May 27 3 minutes ago, markslawson said: Nope - its the Chinese spreading false information. I've linked a couple of stories on the other thread - and you're becoming hysterical again. Take deep breaths. You now deny your own words? "I had to look up my original post which has a headline "collapse". Maybe that is an exaggeration to prove a point" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,058 ML May 27 1 minute ago, TailingsPond said: You now deny your own words? "I had to look up my original post which has a headline "collapse". Maybe that is an exaggeration to prove a point" Now you're getting desperate. Go and look at the links in the other thread and I'll leave it with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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