America Is Exceptional in Its Political Divide

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, Boat said:

 

Around 1969 rivers in multiple states caught fire from to much pollution. Later coal pollution  rain caused acid etching on the windshields of cars. I believe this is where the environmental movement started gathering steam. Large cities were forced to move coal burning factories out of town for example. Our cities looked like many of Chinas do now. Some still don’t grasp the danger of concentrated pollution in relation to length of life. It’s a work in progress. 

Cleveland.  I was there...

If you have not heard Randy Newman's "take"-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVNuT4fkjAs

Every structure within miles of the blast furnaces/mills were colored the same dull red (no matter what color they originally were).

Why go to Yellowstone National Park, when you could smell it by the Cuyahoga River?

Edited June 22 by turbguy

[notsonice + 1,255]

3 hours ago, Boat said:

 

Around 1969 rivers in multiple states caught fire from to much pollution. Later coal pollution  rain caused acid etching on the windshields of cars. I believe this is where the environmental movement started gathering steam. Large cities were forced to move coal burning factories out of town for example. Our cities looked like many of Chinas do now. Some still don’t grasp the danger of concentrated pollution in relation to length of life. It’s a work in progress. 

Some still don’t grasp the danger of concentrated pollution in relation to length of life. It’s a work in progress. .......

thank God for the most part people in the US are coming to the reality of  the dangers of concentrated pollution in relation to length of life. Younger adults are now less likely to smoke than Baby boomers....Clean air/good health is now a bigger priority for Americans than all other concerns....Who would have figured COVID would have people thinking clean air/good health  is the top priority in their lives..........

 

and the Green Agenda is one way to combat concentrated pollution

 

Clunkers are doomed

Americans are changing their lifestyles....the decline in smoking mirrors the increase in Americans embracing the need to pay attention to the environment and getting on the band wagon with the Green Agenda

U.S. Cigarette Smoking Rate Steady Near Historical Low

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Gallup's latest update on cigarette smoking finds 12% of U.S. adults saying they smoked cigarettes in the past week,...

.

Aug 18, 2023

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22 by notsonice

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

 the Cuyahoga River?

While still very contaminated the river has been extensively cleaned up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River

*ahem*

"the coal-burning plant was decommissioned in 1991.^"

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 6/22/2024 at 1:45 PM, Boat said:

 

Around 1969 rivers in multiple states caught fire from to much pollution. Later coal pollution  rain caused acid etching on the windshields of cars. I believe this is where the environmental movement started gathering steam. Large cities were forced to move coal burning factories out of town for example. Our cities looked like many of Chinas do now. Some still don’t grasp the danger of concentrated pollution in relation to length of life. It’s a work in progress. 

That sounds like the old coal technology. The big reduction in coal related pollution came about because of the newer technology.

[turbguy + 1,544]

23 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

That sounds like the old coal technology. The big reduction in coal related pollution came about because of the newer technology.

That technology requires a continuous input of reagent(s). A LOT of it.

That technology produces wastes, that need to be disposed of.  A LOT of it.

That technology requires energy.  A LOT of it.

That technology requires MONEY.  A LOT OF IT!

Yes, technology helped remove coal-fired flue gas pollutants to reduced (but not zero) levels, all brought about by the federal government's action. 

Over the objections of the coal-burners.

BUT, that new technology was not in place for "iron refineries", where the vast majority of the Cuyahoga River's pollutants arose from.

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

The big reduction in coal related pollution came about because of the newer technology.

In this case they decommissioned the plant back in '91.

I agree that newer technologies will reduce coal pollution.  100% reduction by elimination of coal.

 

[Ron Wagner + 709]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:33 PM, specinho said:

Watched a compilation of a drama series called " extraordinary doctors" yesterday.

It highlighted a few things:

1. In a total service year of 25, a senior doctor had consumed 342 bottles of glucose to sustain energy during hard surgery. 

- The colleague explained:" this means he has undertaken 342 surgical cases and saved 342 lives over the years".

Which is ~ 14 cases per year; ~ 1 per month?

- exception: rare cases involving large flock e.g. natural calamity, war, bus accident etc.

 

2. In the drama, surgical department took in only 3 outstanding interns for 2 vacancies. One of them was an autistic, or someone who closed himself up, upon witnessing the death of his sister helplessly when young. He vowed to be a surgeon and let no more casualty happen in front of him. The few who stood by his selection were equally outstanding head of departments and principal of the old upon seeing him saving a child by the road side with basic utility like alcohol, a art knife, and a tube.

During a ward round, an experienced middle age doctor in charged that day would like to discharge a patient who just had a surgery. The autistic doctor opposed it by stating the reasons.

The experienced doctor shouted at him:" Do you know your problem? You are arrogant and believe you know it all! In such a big hospital, all of us read through books you read. What makes you think you know better? All of us are experienced after years of working. How dare you to think you are better than us?" 

He insisted on discharging the patient. 5 minutes later, the autistic young graduate was found correct. The patient collapsed by the road side.

Questions raised would be:

a) there is probably no shortage of doctors.  Ten of thousands of graduates per year from private and government owned  universities.

But, they are probably not good enough to meet the  eyes of the outstanding old. No skill, no adequate ethic nor spirit to serve.

b) they are not always busy like the old days when quality was a stringent bar of entrance. They pretend so and dismiss patients hastily, carelessly. After some times, they end up doing basic duty poorly. 

Old doctors tried to be better everyday and encouraged closed friends to be equally outstanding.

Young doctors compete to find out who perform worse, yet not found out nor have the need to take responsibility and be punished.

Nurses likely the same. High in demand, yes.

Outstanding doctors and head of nurse will incline to choose the like.

But poor quality doctors or head of nurse will not choose anyone who is better. Do not want to be outcompeted. 

Doctors who choose to leave are very likely those who do not have the heart to serve but love the fancy title "doctor" nor they have skill to perform well. The sooner they leave, the better? Worse are those who can not cope but insist to stay to get by. 

So much has changed. Quality past is fading.

There is some truth in your statements but I think you need to have some experience with the way doctors and other practitioners work today. It is a very computer centric business that is run by very demanding people. 

As a Nurse practitioner, my wife had to work hours at home every night to catch up on the computer work. It was that or not give the proper amount of time to the patient's visit. They are given a quota of about twenty visits. That does not allow for good quality visits and the computer work! Doctors are in the same position. 

Few practitioners can afford to work independently like it was in the 1990s. My wife concurs. 

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

On 6/23/2024 at 9:24 PM, Ron Wagner said:

 That does not allow for good quality visits and the computer work! Doctors are in the same position. 

Few practitioners can afford to work independently like it was in the 1990s. My wife concurs. 

Times change.  Some people struggle to keep up with technology and yearn for the old days. 1990 was a long time ago...

Edited June 25 by TailingsPond

[turbguy + 1,544]

17 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Times change.  Some people struggle to keep up with technology and yearn for the old days. 1990 was a long time ago...

Just wait until AI becomes our doctors/dentists/surgeons.

Are "med-beds" on the distant horizon??

Not if the AI-powered lawyers have something to argue.

Do you think hands will ever not touch my morning's cantaloupe?   THAT'S a LONG, LONG, way off!

Edited June 25 by turbguy

[specinho + 470]

On 6/24/2024 at 11:24 AM, Ron Wagner said:

There is some truth in your statements but I think you need to have some experience with the way doctors and other practitioners work today. It is a very computer centric business that is run by very demanding people. 

As a Nurse practitioner, my wife had to work hours at home every night to catch up on the computer work. It was that or not give the proper amount of time to the patient's visit. They are given a quota of about twenty visits. That does not allow for good quality visits and the computer work! Doctors are in the same position. 

Few practitioners can afford to work independently like it was in the 1990s. My wife concurs. 

 

3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Times change.  Some people struggle to keep up with technology and yearn for the old days. 1990 was a long time ago...

Computer centric is one thing, business centric is another.

Using computer to keep info, sort, search, and know which doctor is incharged on certain cases etc might improve

a) the need of space for large volume of paper/cards/ hand written records;

b) search to extract file or patients' history, what had been administered and worked, or may be what not and issue raised 

c) pint point who should be responsible shall there is issue etc

Developing and less developed countries might still be catching up with this. 50 years, in gap of progress.

Specialization allows young nurses to start off with data or record entry etc computer work. Not sure if tasks assignment/ delegation is commonly applied? 

Many years ago, for modern doctors here whom might have memory for "all fever and pain shall be given panadol or pain killers" only, a cult kid suggested to allow them to have access to internet in order to check on or verify info they are not sure. The aim has been to reduce percentage of misdiagnosis and mishandling. The idea has been adopted by royalty of Perak and Johor. Some humble and kind specialists and pharmacists catch on quickly. Most others could not be bothered. Computers here, hence, is a back up for what doctors have learnt and forgotten, most of it. Minor for data entry. 'o' 'n'

 

2. Biz centric

- received a video today. It mentioned a surgeon who categorizes every diagnosis as same condition, in need of surgical procedure. Medication, he would prescribe them even though you do not need them, particularly when he needs to hit a certain target that month.

All for money, not about the patients. 

@TailingsPond there, it is real....

 

Edited June 25 by specinho

[notsonice + 1,255]

Jobs for all Americans  ...good factory jobs.........this will be a topic for debate who is creating good factory jobs

 

 

Aviation Pros

NorSun Announces $620 Million Investment for U.S. Solar Wafer Manufacturing Operations at Tulsa International Airport

Norwegian solar energy company, NorSun, has selected Tulsa International Airport for its first U.S.-based factory location,...

.

3 hours ago

[notsonice + 1,255]

Enjoy the on-shoring of jobs back to the US and at the same time building solar panels and installing them in the US helps us all lead a cleaner healthier life with less coal burning

 

 

 

SEIA | Solar Energy Industries Association

American Solar Panel Manufacturing Capacity Increases 71% in Q1 2024 as Industry Reaches 200-Gigawatt Milestone ...

WASHINGTON, D.C. — A record-setting 11 gigawatts (GW) of new solar module manufacturing capacity came online in the United States during Q1 2024,...

.

3 weeks ago

 

 

Edited June 27 by notsonice

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

Alas the time has come, The End.

 

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

On 6/16/2024 at 10:57 AM, turbguy said:

Now "Turning Point USA" is strongly promoting consumption of RAW MILK?

H5N1 strains have proven deadly for humans, with a fatality rate of +50%. That makes this type of flu among the most dangerous and deadly diseases on the planet. By contrast, the fatality rate of COVID-19 stands at just over 1%, with many of the deaths happening early in the pandemic when there was no vaccine and little understanding of how to treat an infection.

H5N1 flu is even more deadly than smallpox. 

We seem to have reached the mindset of a large part of our population, that takes in an FDA warning against jumping off cliffs, would lead to a serious mess at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

(Gravity ALWAYS wins).

So, are you off your meds?

How F'n LAZY are you?  2 damn cases of H5N1 have been documented as of early 2024.. H5N1 is bird flu and nothing to do with good ol' RAW Milk which last I checked everyone has been drinking for thousands upon thousands of years.   

So called "milk" in the store is not milk at all.  It is a fraction of it.  It is skim milk.  Skim milk is even worse as it is left overs from making butter from get this --> RAW milk. 

 

[turbguy + 1,544]

2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

So, are you off your meds?

How F'n LAZY are you?  2 damn cases of H5N1 have been documented as of early 2024.. H5N1 is bird flu and nothing to do with good ol' RAW Milk which last I checked everyone has been drinking for thousands upon thousands of years.   

So called "milk" in the store is not milk at all.  It is a fraction of it.  It is skim milk.  Skim milk is even worse as it is left overs from making butter from get this --> RAW milk. 

 

I think it's up to four cases.  All dealing with poultry and dairy farm exposure.  It appears dairy stock is being infected.  Here's a map:

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/livestock-poultry-disease/avian/avian-influenza/hpai-detections/hpai-confirmed-cases-livestock

I'll take whole, pasteurized milk.

The risk of a food-borne illness with raw milk may be small. 

The benefit of pasteurization is HUGE.

The vast majority of butter (in the USA) is made from pasteurized cream.  Unpasteurized cream/butter is a real niche product.

How do you think the human race has been able to extend lifetimes over the decades?

Something about cooking, sanitation, food safety regulations and inspections, and knowledgeable medial care.

Why do some people take such radical positions such as to ENCOURAGE avoiding a know, effective, and proven process, to consume a product that has a higher risk of illness?

Just another conspiracy, such as "JFK will reappear in Dallas any day now".

 

Edited June 28 by turbguy

[notsonice + 1,255]

2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

So, are you off your meds?

How F'n LAZY are you?  2 damn cases of H5N1 have been documented as of early 2024.. H5N1 is bird flu and nothing to do with good ol' RAW Milk which last I checked everyone has been drinking for thousands upon thousands of years.   

So called "milk" in the store is not milk at all.  It is a fraction of it.  It is skim milk.  Skim milk is even worse as it is left overs from making butter from get this --> RAW milk. 

 

RAW Milk which last I checked everyone has been drinking for thousands upon thousands of years.????

 

Visit a farm town cemetery and you will notice how many kids under 5 are buried in the cemeteries  born/died  before the 1970's. 

I spent summers on my Aunt and Uncles dairy farm......Raw milk was served....warm at all the meals. Having the shits (diarrhea) was common in the house along with food poisoning..... raw milk not the smartest thing to drink unless you like gambling with your health...up to real recent times there was no rush to chill it fast as the milk truck came out once a day to get the raw milk. 

 

Keep the cows utters shit free/bacteria free  during milking was/is near impossible........ Cows are always shitting .....green goey crap while being milked and the shit splatters everywhere....... all the milk is mixed together in the fresh tank at room temperature (before it is chilled) .....Bacteria love it..better drink it fast before the Bacteria gets the upper hand

I am one for pasteurizing.......Love milk ....do not love the nasty bacteria that is present during milking

Most countries irradiate milk and you can sell it warm........again kill off all the bacteria first ...Raw milk go for it if you love the squirts

 

H5N1.....not a problem (yet) but the other typical bacteria Salmonella, E. coli, Campylobacter, Staphylococcus aureus, Yersinia, Brucella, Coxiella, Listeria have spread everywhere...why would anyone be crazy to drink raw milk these days?????

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

I think it's up to four cases.  All dealing with poultry and dairy farm exposure.  It appears dairy stock is being infected.  Here's a map:

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/livestock-poultry-disease/avian/avian-influenza/hpai-detections/hpai-confirmed-cases-livestock

I'll take whole, pasteurized milk.

The risk of a food-borne illness with raw milk may be small. 

The benefit of pasteurization is HUGE.

The vast majority of butter (in the USA) is made from pasteurized cream.  Unpasteurized cream/butter is a real niche product.

How do you think the human race has been able to extend lifetimes over the decades?

Something about cooking, sanitation, food safety regulations and inspections, and knowledgeable medial care.

Why do some people take such radical positions such as to ENCOURAGE avoiding a know, effective, and proven process, to consume a product that has a higher risk of illness?

Just another conspiracy, such as "JFK will reappear in Dallas any day now".

 

Why DEMAND compliance like dictator scum?  Everyone knows what they are buying and why.  This thing called a label... <<GASP!>> AH, but you have rampant hero complex narcissism disease.  You scum, think you are "saving" them from themselves.  You aren't. 

There used to be milk men delivering REAL milk to your doorstep.  Thanks to trash like you we can't get that anymore.  Last time we got that was back in the 1980's.  Everyone was dying or getting poisoned from bad milk all over the place... Oh wait, no, no they weren't.  Oh but trash like you "saved" us...

YOU want to have pasteurized milk, Great.  Its labeled as such.  It stores far longer with half the milk removed, and is cheaper; Great.  Why do you go around demanding some niche couple of dudes selling to a VERY niche specific person who knows perfectly well it is NOT pasteurized and is actually WHOLE Milk comply?  --> Why? 

You are dictator scum pretending your brilliant and stomping over those "stupid" rubes regardless of fact that Pasteurization breaks down the milk and several key vitamins(changing its taste among other things) which are key to survival for several types of sick people, but hey, you know stomp around in your RIGHTEOUS ignorant fervor while you pretend your hero actions are saving these poor stupid benighted fools from their ignorance...

We all know who the ACTUAL ignorant is here...

[turbguy + 1,544]

8 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Why DEMAND compliance like dictator scum?  Everyone knows what they are buying and why.  This thing called a label... <<GASP!>> AH, but you have rampant hero complex narcissism disease.  You scum, think you are "saving" them from themselves.  You aren't. 

There used to be milk men delivering REAL milk to your doorstep.  Thanks to trash like you we can't get that anymore.  Last time we got that was back in the 1980's.  Everyone was dying or getting poisoned from bad milk all over the place... Oh wait, no, no they weren't.  Oh but trash like you "saved" us...

YOU want to have pasteurized milk, Great.  Its labeled as such.  It stores far longer with half the milk removed, and is cheaper; Great.  Why do you go around demanding some niche couple of dudes selling to a VERY niche specific person who knows perfectly well it is NOT pasteurized and is actually WHOLE Milk comply?  --> Why? 

You are dictator scum pretending your brilliant and stomping over those "stupid" rubes regardless of fact that Pasteurization breaks down the milk and several key vitamins(changing its taste among other things) which are key to survival for several types of sick people, but hey, you know stomp around in your RIGHTEOUS ignorant fervor while you pretend your hero actions are saving these poor stupid benighted fools from their ignorance...

We all know who the ACTUAL ignorant is here...

I do hope you drive on the right hand sides of roads in the USA.

What's the difference?

Studies in the US suggest a small percentage of the population consumes raw milk, somewhere around 5% reporting consumption at least once a year. 

One study estimated an 840 times greater likelihood of contracting a food-borne illness by consuming raw milk.

While good practices on farms can reduce contamination, they cannot guarantee safety from harmful germs. Pasteurized milk offers the same nutritional benefits without the risks of raw milk consumption. Since the early 1900s, pasteurization has greatly reduced milk-borne illnesses.  Driving in the correct side of the road has the greatly reduces death and injury.

Raw milk does not cure lactose intolerance.

Raw milk does not cure or treat asthma and allergy.

Raw milk is not more effective in preventing osteoporosis than pasteurized milk.

There are no beneficial bacteria in raw milk for gastrointestinal health.

Raw milk is not an immune system building food and is particularly unsafe for children.

There are no immunoglobulins in raw milk that enhance the human immune system.

There are no additional protease and lipases in raw milk that facilitate milk digestion.

Raw milk is not nutritionally superior to pasteurized milk. The only vitamin that is significantly heat labile is vitamin C, but milk is an insignificant source for vitamin C.

Raw milk does not contain natural antimicrobial components that make milk safe.

Raw milk does not contain nisin for pathogen inhibition.

Folate binding protein (FBP) is not denatured during pasteurization and folate utilization is not reduced in pasteurized milk.

Raw milk causes a greater rate of food-borne outbreaks than pasteurized milk.

Pasteurized milk is FAR safer than raw milk.

Any false “health benefits” claims of raw milk advocates causes some parents to give raw milk to their children and  immuno-compromised people, such as pregnant women, the elderly, and hospitalized patients, who are under the impression that it is "better nutrition", to also start consuming raw milk. It is these very same sub-groups of the population that are most at risk for becoming ill or even dying from food-borne illness as a result of consuming raw milk.

That said, go right ahead and consume it.

I guess we DO know who is the actual ignorant here.

 

 

Edited June 28 by turbguy

[notsonice + 1,255]

8 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Why DEMAND compliance like dictator scum?  Everyone knows what they are buying and why.  This thing called a label... <<GASP!>> AH, but you have rampant hero complex narcissism disease.  You scum, think you are "saving" them from themselves.  You aren't. 

There used to be milk men delivering REAL milk to your doorstep.  Thanks to trash like you we can't get that anymore.  Last time we got that was back in the 1980's.  Everyone was dying or getting poisoned from bad milk all over the place... Oh wait, no, no they weren't.  Oh but trash like you "saved" us...

YOU want to have pasteurized milk, Great.  Its labeled as such.  It stores far longer with half the milk removed, and is cheaper; Great.  Why do you go around demanding some niche couple of dudes selling to a VERY niche specific person who knows perfectly well it is NOT pasteurized and is actually WHOLE Milk comply?  --> Why? 

You are dictator scum pretending your brilliant and stomping over those "stupid" rubes regardless of fact that Pasteurization breaks down the milk and several key vitamins(changing its taste among other things) which are key to survival for several types of sick people, but hey, you know stomp around in your RIGHTEOUS ignorant fervor while you pretend your hero actions are saving these poor stupid benighted fools from their ignorance...

We all know who the ACTUAL ignorant is here...

There used to be milk men delivering REAL milk to your doorstep.  Thanks to trash like you we can't get that anymore.  Last time we got that was back in the 1980's?????
 

service in my neighborhood never ended......

 

did they ever deliver raw milk in the past 100 years ???? NOOOOOOOO for good reason

 

Your own milk men delivery service ended in your trailer park most likely because you are too cheap to pay for the service

 

PS these days all the major grocery stores across the US have delivery service ...and yes it includes milk...pony up or shut up

On your babbling about buying raw milk............no one sells it because when you get sick .....you will be the first in line suing the raw milk guy ........and no insurance company will insure someone selling a questionable safe product ...Raw milk

if you want raw milk delivered to your house.........Buy a cow or move to the country and get a cow

from the tone of your posts ....you are coming across as a certified nut job.......

Why DEMAND compliance like dictator scum?

Thanks to trash like you we can't get that anymore.???

You are dictator scum pretending your brilliant and stomping over those "stupid" rubes

who is acting like a dictator???????

You always act like a stomping 5 year old with your name calling when you are called out for your BS

 

Go out and buy a cow and good luck...no one will care when you are doubled over your toilet (and not an open trench behind your trailer.....hope you believe in sanitary facilities which are mandated by the government)

 

 

 

Edited June 28 by notsonice

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 hour ago, turbguy said:

I do hope you drive on the right hand sides of roads in the USA.

What's the difference?

Studies in the US suggest a small percentage of the population consumes raw milk, somewhere around 5% reporting consumption at least once a year. 

One study estimated an 840 times greater likelihood of contracting a food-borne illness by consuming raw milk.

While good practices on farms can reduce contamination, they cannot guarantee safety from harmful germs. Pasteurized milk offers the same nutritional benefits without the risks of raw milk consumption. Since the early 1900s, pasteurization has greatly reduced milk-borne illnesses.  Driving in the correct side of the road has the greatly reduces death and injury.

Raw milk does not cure lactose intolerance.

Raw milk does not cure or treat asthma and allergy.

Raw milk is not more effective in preventing osteoporosis than pasteurized milk.

There are no beneficial bacteria in raw milk for gastrointestinal health.

Raw milk is not an immune system building food and is particularly unsafe for children.

There are no immunoglobulins in raw milk that enhance the human immune system.

There are no additional protease and lipases in raw milk that facilitate milk digestion.

Raw milk is not nutritionally superior to pasteurized milk. The only vitamin that is significantly heat labile is vitamin C, but milk is an insignificant source for vitamin C.

Raw milk does not contain natural antimicrobial components that make milk safe.

Raw milk does not contain nisin for pathogen inhibition.

Folate binding protein (FBP) is not denatured during pasteurization and folate utilization is not reduced in pasteurized milk.

Raw milk causes a greater rate of food-borne outbreaks than pasteurized milk.

Pasteurized milk is FAR safer than raw milk.

Any false “health benefits” claims of raw milk advocates causes some parents to give raw milk to their children and  immuno-compromised people, such as pregnant women, the elderly, and hospitalized patients, who are under the impression that it is "better nutrition", to also start consuming raw milk. It is these very same sub-groups of the population that are most at risk for becoming ill or even dying from food-borne illness as a result of consuming raw milk.

That said, go right ahead and consume it.

I guess we DO know who is the actual ignorant here.

 

 

Ah, estimated, not Actual data... good thing someone pulled numbers out of their ass, it MUST be True!  Please save the world from your LIES. 

What was happening in the 1970's when that law was passed hrmm?  Heard of Government CHEESE before and the cheese stockpile?  That is right, the USA/world was SWIMMING in Billions of lbs of excess milk/cheese.   Hrmm how do you sell more milk...

Ah, good thing there is some dictator telling everyone what to do.  Why, without a dictator no one knows how to pick their nose without the big ol' government and trash like you telling them how to live their life. 

Pasturization destroys riboflavin/vitamin B2, decrease significantly during the pasteurization process, and the other vitamins also take a gargantuan hit just as happens when you cook vegetables. 

So, now you have to drink multiple times MORE milk for the same benefit. 

Let me guess next you are going to whine and say the food in USA is trash... Well yea, because it is processed and the vitamins are stripped from it.  Sure it sits on the shelf for a LONG time, but they are EMPTY calories so one big problem is everyone is actually STARVING from vitamin etc deficiency due to the vitamins etc being destroyed to comply with government PUKE tyrant Trash like YOU!

Guess what we have been cooking food for thousands of years to kill bacteria etc, guess next you are going to eliminate Sushi places eh...  OH right, we do not have billions of pounds of excess Sushi to get rid of and a giant lobby group to placate... So, I guess sushi is safe from the dictators. 

[turbguy + 1,544]

50 minutes ago, notsonice said:

There used to be milk men delivering REAL milk to your doorstep.  Thanks to trash like you we can't get that anymore.  Last time we got that was back in the 1980's?????
 

service in my neighborhood never ended......

 

did they ever deliver raw milk in the past 100 years ???? NOOOOOOOO for good reason

 

Your own milk men delivery service ended in your trailer park most likely because you are too cheap to pay for the service

 

PS these days all the major grocery stores across the US have delivery service ...and yes it includes milk...pony up or shut up

On your babbling about buying raw milk............no one sells it because when you get sick .....you will be the first in line suing the raw milk guy ........and no insurance company will insure someone selling a questionable safe product ...Raw milk

if you want raw milk delivered to your house.........Buy a cow or move to the country and get a cow

from the tone of your posts ....you are coming across as a certified nut job.......

Why DEMAND compliance like dictator scum?

Thanks to trash like you we can't get that anymore.???

You are dictator scum pretending your brilliant and stomping over those "stupid" rubes

who is acting like a dictator???????

You always act like a stomping 5 year old with your name calling when you are called out for your BS

 

Go out and buy a cow and good luck...no one will care when you are doubled over your toilet (and not an open trench behind your trailer.....hope you believe in sanitary facilities which are mandated by the government)

 

 

 

You want to point out actions of a dictatorship?

Wyoming now prohibits the sale of Delta-8 products (at least it will this Monday). 

But Wyoming permits the retail sale of raw milk (as long as it didn't cross the state line to get here, then Federal prohibitions apply).

Wyoming's hemp industry is not pleased.

"Be reasonable, do it MY way" comes to mind.

[turbguy + 1,544]

29 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Pasturization destroys riboflavin/vitamin B2, decrease significantly during the pasteurization process, and the other vitamins also take a gargantuan hit just as happens when you cook vegetables.

Believe what you wish.  I guess an estimate of almost three orders of magnitude difference is to be dismissed offhand.  OK.

Pasteurization does indeed have a minor effect on the riboflavin content in milk, but it's a small enough loss that milk remains a good source of vitamin B2.

• Pasteurization destroys only a few percent of the riboflavin in milk, typically in the range of 5-10%
• Even with this minor loss, milk remains a significant source of riboflavin. A cup of milk can provide around 30% of the daily recommended value .

Prove me in error.  Please!

And stay on the right hand side....and consume the fluid that comes off the boiled vegetables.

Or stir-fry, steam, or microwave them.

I am not requiring you to consume any product.  I am criticizing those that ENCOURAGE a proven, dangerous practice.

Here's some data:

 

Edited June 28 by turbguy

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

6 hours ago, turbguy said:

Believe what you wish.  I guess an estimate of almost three orders of magnitude difference is to be dismissed offhand.  OK.

Pasteurization does indeed have a minor effect on the riboflavin content in milk, but it's a small enough loss that milk remains a good source of vitamin B2.

• Pasteurization destroys only a few percent of the riboflavin in milk, typically in the range of 5-10%
• Even with this minor loss, milk remains a significant source of riboflavin. A cup of milk can provide around 30% of the daily recommended value .

Prove me in error.  Please!

And stay on the right hand side....and consume the fluid that comes off the boiled vegetables.

Or stir-fry, steam, or microwave them.

I am not requiring you to consume any product.  I am criticizing those that ENCOURAGE a proven, dangerous practice.

Here's some data:

 

Ah, you are this maleovent.  IF they actually had a study with data, they would have used it.  Not pulled from thin air, a nebulous pile of Horse manure.  The only thing they have is total number of possible cases from multiple factors with a few linked to raw milk consumption. 

Dictator scum.  You want pasturized, great.   Who the F are you to not allow anyone to raise cows and sell their milk and have others to buy raw milk of their own free will?  Who the Hell do you think you are?  Dictator trash is what. 

SIgh: Pasturization destroys multiple enzymes/proteins/vitamins, which is why many countries such as England etc are publishing papers such as this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6140832/

in light of accumulating evidence for health benefits of consuming unpasteurized milk. While nutrient loss on pasteurization of milk is slight ¹, cross-sectional studies from several countries have now reproducibly demonstrated significant beneficial immunological effects of unpasteurized milk consumption, primarily protection against childhood asthma, atopy and respiratory illnesses ^{2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8} . Several of these studies, including the PARSIFAL study of 15,000 children in five countries ^{9, 10, 11}, and the GABRIEL study of 10,000 children in three countries ^{12, 13, 14, 15, 16} , were designed to identify determinants of the “farm effect” by which children exposed to farming environments have lower incidence of infections and allergic disorders. Further evidence for the preventive effects of raw milk exposure, both in utero and during infancy and childhood, was found from prospective birth cohort studies, notably the six country PASTURE birth cohort of over 900 children monitored until age 6. This study confirmed the strong protective effect of early raw milk consumption against asthma and atopic diseases

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Ah, you are this maleovent.  IF they actually had a study with data, they would have used it.  Not pulled from thin air, a nebulous pile of Horse manure.  The only thing they have is total number of possible cases from multiple factors with a few linked to raw milk consumption.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28518026/

Abstract

The growing popularity of unpasteurized milk in the United States raises public health concerns. We estimated outbreak-related illnesses and hospitalizations caused by the consumption of cow's milk and cheese contaminated with Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli, Salmonella spp., Listeria monocytogenes, and Campylobacter spp. using a model relying on publicly available outbreak data. In the United States, outbreaks associated with dairy consumption cause, on average, 760 illnesses/year and 22 hospitalizations/year, mostly from Salmonella spp. and Campylobacter spp. Unpasteurized milk, consumed by only 3.2% of the population, and cheese, consumed by only 1.6% of the population, caused 96% of illnesses caused by contaminated dairy products. Unpasteurized dairy products thus cause 840 (95% CrI 611-1,158) times more illnesses and 45 (95% CrI 34-59) times more hospitalizations than pasteurized products. As consumption of unpasteurized dairy products grows, illnesses will increase steadily; a doubling in the consumption of unpasteurized milk or cheese could increase outbreak-related illnesses by 96%.

1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Dictator scum.  You want pasturized, great.   Who the F are you to not allow anyone to raise cows and sell their milk and have others to buy raw milk of their own free will?  Who the Hell do you think you are?  Dictator trash is what.

I don't believe that I am DICTATING that people must produce or consume pasteurized dairy products within a state.  If I were, THEN I would actually act as a dictator would act.  Moving raw dairy products across state lines for human consumption is already dis-allowed.  It's in each state's hands. Just as all states prohibit driving on the wrong side of the road.

I am criticizing those that actually  ENCOURAGE consuming raw dairy products, when safer products are much more prevalent.  I can buy raw milk in retail stores here, should I wish.

You have your studies, I have mine.

Please, just drive on the correct side of the road. 

Raw milk does not cure or treat asthma.

The PARSIFAL study (Waser et al., 2007) has been misused by raw milk advocates ever since it was published. The PARSIFAL study found an inverse association of farm milk consumption, not raw milk consumption, with asthma (and allergy). The authors of the PARSIFAL study clearly indicated in the paper that the “present study does not allow evaluating the effect of pasteurized vs. raw milk consumption because no objective confirmation of the raw milk status of the farm milk samples was available.” In fact, in the study, about half of the farm milk was boiled (Waser et al., 2007). The authors of the PARSIFAL study concluded that “raw milk may contain pathogens such as salmonella or EHEC, and its consumption may therefore imply serious health risks… At this stage, consumption of raw farm milk cannot be recommended as a preventive measure.” (Waser et al., 2007).

Raw milk does not cure or treat allergy.

Regarding allergy, research has shown that raw milk and pasteurized milk do not differ in their anaphylactic-sensitizing capacity when tested in both animal models (Poulsen et al., 1987; McLaughlan et al., 1981) and in human clinical trials (Host and Samuelsson, 1988). Pasteurization conditions have little impact on casein structure and only cause limited whey protein denaturation. Therefore, it is not surprising that pasteurization does not change the allergenicity of milk proteins.

For example, Host and Samuelsson (1988) compared the allergic responses caused by raw, pasteurized (75°C/15 s), and homogenized/pasteurized milk in five children who are allergic to cow milk (aged 12 to 40 months). All children developed significant and similar allergic reactions from the consumption of the above three types of milk (Host and Samuelsson, 1988). The authors concluded that children with proven milk allergy can not tolerate milk, raw or pasteurized (Host and Samuelsson, 1988).

Consume what you want.  I certainly don't mean to "dictate" that.  I wish to point out that consuming potentially more dangerous substances carries an enhanced risk.  Exposure of children to a broad environment (the "farm effect") probably has significant benefits.  It certainly has more benefit than tapping thumbs or watching Tictok on a cell phone screen. 

Nor do I typically use unsavory wording to describe a person's position on matters of interest. 

At times I may be wrong. So far, I have seen very little that indicates that I am, concerning this matter. 

Feel free to consume raw meat products if you wish  That "165⁰ recommendation" is just about the same as pasteurization. For milk, the most common pasteurization methods involve temperatures ranging from 145°F (63°C) for 30 minutes to 161°F (72°C) for 15 seconds.

A lot of those studied countries BOIL milk before consumption.  That does reduce some of milk's "properties".

 

 

 

Edited June 29 by turbguy
F

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 6/27/2024 at 11:00 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Alas the time has come, The End.

 

 

Yes, the curtains are now descending on the Green Dream, reality is beginning to emerge.