footeab@yahoo.com + 2,194 June 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, turbguy said: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28518026/ Abstract The growing popularity of unpasteurized milk in the United States raises public health concerns. We estimated outbreak-related illnesses and hospitalizations caused by the consumption of cow's milk and cheese contaminated with Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli, Salmonella spp., Listeria monocytogenes, and Campylobacter spp. using a model relying on publicly available outbreak data. In the United States, outbreaks associated with dairy consumption cause, on average, 760 illnesses/year and 22 hospitalizations/year, mostly from Salmonella spp. and Campylobacter spp. Unpasteurized milk, consumed by only 3.2% of the population, and cheese, consumed by only 1.6% of the population, caused 96% of illnesses caused by contaminated dairy products. Unpasteurized dairy products thus cause 840 (95% CrI 611-1,158) times more illnesses and 45 (95% CrI 34-59) times more hospitalizations than pasteurized products. As consumption of unpasteurized dairy products grows, illnesses will increase steadily; a doubling in the consumption of unpasteurized milk or cheese could increase outbreak-related illnesses by 96%. I don't believe that I am DICTATING that people must produce or consume pasteurized dairy products within a state. If I were, THEN I would actually act as a dictator would act. Moving raw dairy products across state lines for human consumption is already dis-allowed. It's in each state's hands. Just as all states prohibit driving on the wrong side of the road. I am criticizing those that actually ENCOURAGE consuming raw dairy products, when safer products are much more prevalent. I can buy raw milk in retail stores here, should I wish. You have your studies, I have mine. Please, just drive on the correct side of the road. Raw milk does not cure or treat asthma. The PARSIFAL study (Waser et al., 2007) has been misused by raw milk advocates ever since it was published. The PARSIFAL study found an inverse association of farm milk consumption, not raw milk consumption, with asthma (and allergy). The authors of the PARSIFAL study clearly indicated in the paper that the “present study does not allow evaluating the effect of pasteurized vs. raw milk consumption because no objective confirmation of the raw milk status of the farm milk samples was available.” In fact, in the study, about half of the farm milk was boiled (Waser et al., 2007). The authors of the PARSIFAL study concluded that “raw milk may contain pathogens such as salmonella or EHEC, and its consumption may therefore imply serious health risks… At this stage, consumption of raw farm milk cannot be recommended as a preventive measure.” (Waser et al., 2007). Raw milk does not cure or treat allergy. Regarding allergy, research has shown that raw milk and pasteurized milk do not differ in their anaphylactic-sensitizing capacity when tested in both animal models (Poulsen et al., 1987; McLaughlan et al., 1981) and in human clinical trials (Host and Samuelsson, 1988). Pasteurization conditions have little impact on casein structure and only cause limited whey protein denaturation. Therefore, it is not surprising that pasteurization does not change the allergenicity of milk proteins. For example, Host and Samuelsson (1988) compared the allergic responses caused by raw, pasteurized (75°C/15 s), and homogenized/pasteurized milk in five children who are allergic to cow milk (aged 12 to 40 months). All children developed significant and similar allergic reactions from the consumption of the above three types of milk (Host and Samuelsson, 1988). The authors concluded that children with proven milk allergy can not tolerate milk, raw or pasteurized (Host and Samuelsson, 1988). Consume what you want. I certainly don't mean to "dictate" that. I wish to point out that consuming potentially more dangerous substances carries an enhanced risk. Exposure of children to a broad environment (the "farm effect") probably has significant benefits. It certainly has more benefit than tapping thumbs or watching Tictok on a cell phone screen. Nor do I typically use unsavory wording to describe a person's position on matters of interest. At times I may be wrong. So far, I have seen very little that indicates that I am, concerning this matter. Feel free to consume raw meat products if you wish That "165⁰ recommendation" is just about the same as pasteurization. For milk, the most common pasteurization methods involve temperatures ranging from 145°F (63°C) for 30 minutes to 161°F (72°C) for 15 seconds. A lot of those studied countries BOIL milk before consumption. That does reduce some of milk's "properties". Meanwhile here in reality, not "estimated supposed "studies" VIa CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/outbreaks.html Click by year... Good luck finding non pasteurized milk products in that list So, from what I can tell, your link is pure BS and I note the dates you give are same time period they needed "facts" to close down all the mom and pop dairy's in the 1980's. . Also: Apparently you do not know what the word INCLUDING means. Give ya a hint: it does not mean dependent upon... Nor what zero times 840 is Edited June 29 by footeab@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 July 1 On 5/22/2024 at 8:27 PM, TailingsPond said: Did we lose Eyes wide shut? Haha. Mr any day now... On 5/23/2024 at 3:44 AM, Rob Plant said: I think he's trying to find some new memes. Then again he might actually have opened his eyes and realise he has been writing crap about every thread on this site. On 5/23/2024 at 11:32 AM, turbguy said: But, but....HUNTER BIDEN'S LAPTOP!! On 6/5/2024 at 5:40 PM, TailingsPond said: Still promoting a felon. Rule of law and all that. What a day in America! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE July 1 28 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: What a day in America! Did something happen? Are you pretending to have some sort of victory? If so what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE July 1 On 6/28/2024 at 9:38 PM, Ecocharger said: Yes, the curtains are now descending on the Green Dream, reality is beginning to emerge. You can't keep the threads straight. This thread isn't about the environment, it is about the civil unrest in the USA and the traitors fuelling it. You should understand that federal USA politics will not stop the global green revolution. The POTUS can't even stop the green revolution within the USA. California will continue on with their green transition and the rest of the world will follow their rules if they want to continue trading with that huge market. It has happened many times before. Can you buy a 2-stroke ICE where you live? Probably not because after California banned them everyone stopped making them. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,194 July 1 5 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You can't keep the threads straight. This thread isn't about the environment, it is about the civil unrest in the USA and the traitors fuelling it. You should understand that federal USA politics will not stop the global green revolution. The POTUS can't even stop the green revolution within the USA. California will continue on with their green transition and the rest of the world will follow their rules if they want to continue trading with that huge market. It has happened many times before. Can you buy a 2-stroke ICE where you live? Probably not because after California banned them everyone stopped making them. IF that were true, California would be opening up new giant NG pipelines to balance the only "green" power source they have: Solar. Their absurd idea of batteries is 4 hours of "backup". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 714 July 1 On 6/25/2024 at 3:47 AM, specinho said: Computer centric is one thing, business centric is another. Using computer to keep info, sort, search, and know which doctor is incharged on certain cases etc might improve a) the need of space for large volume of paper/cards/ hand written records; b) search to extract file or patients' history, what had been administered and worked, or may be what not and issue raised c) pint point who should be responsible shall there is issue etc Developing and less developed countries might still be catching up with this. 50 years, in gap of progress. Specialization allows young nurses to start off with data or record entry etc computer work. Not sure if tasks assignment/ delegation is commonly applied? Many years ago, for modern doctors here whom might have memory for "all fever and pain shall be given panadol or pain killers" only, a cult kid suggested to allow them to have access to internet in order to check on or verify info they are not sure. The aim has been to reduce percentage of misdiagnosis and mishandling. The idea has been adopted by royalty of Perak and Johor. Some humble and kind specialists and pharmacists catch on quickly. Most others could not be bothered. Computers here, hence, is a back up for what doctors have learnt and forgotten, most of it. Minor for data entry. 'o' 'n' 2. Biz centric - received a video today. It mentioned a surgeon who categorizes every diagnosis as same condition, in need of surgical procedure. Medication, he would prescribe them even though you do not need them, particularly when he needs to hit a certain target that month. All for money, not about the patients. @TailingsPond there, it is real.... Regarding Biz-Centric. That is the opposite of what medical CARE should be. It must be patient centric. Computer demands should be decided by the practitioners who do the care. Practitioners of all kinds need to be monitored for safety and efficacy, not how well they fill out computer demands. The computer should not rule over medical care. Practitioners should. They should also be paid for extra computer work that they must do beyond forty hours per week. Many people are leaving the field because of the extraordinary demands and stresses, computer work is the most time consuming extraneous work. I worked through all the phases of computer work in the field. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,194 July 2 On 6/28/2024 at 8:14 PM, turbguy said: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28518026/ Abstract of Estimated LIES The growing popularity of unpasteurized milk in the United States raises public health concerns. We estimated outbreak-related illnesses and hospitalizations caused by the consumption of cow's milk and cheese contaminated with Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli, Salmonella spp., Listeria monocytogenes, and Campylobacter spp. using a model relying on publicly available outbreak data. In the United States, outbreaks associated with dairy consumption cause, on Meanwhile here in reality, not "estimated supposed "studies" VIa CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/outbreaks.html Click by year... Not one single salmonella out break in RAW dairy, Why Salmonella? This causes actual human damage/death So much for your "estimated" so called "study"--> AKA " I made it the Fuck up CDC = 0 cases in ~20 years. "study" 840X worse.... So child, 0 x 840 = ? = 0 So, from what I can tell, your link is pure BS and I note the dates of said "data" are same time period they needed "facts" to close down all the mom and pop dairy's in the 1980's so giant corporation dairy's could take over. You are being led along like a blind SHEEP. . 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,553 July 2 59 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Meanwhile here in reality, not "estimated supposed "studies" VIa CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/outbreaks.html Click by year... Not one single salmonella out break in RAW dairy, Why Salmonella? This causes actual human damage/death So much for your "estimated" so called "study"--> AKA " I made it the Fuck up CDC = 0 cases in ~20 years. "study" 840X worse.... So child, 0 x 840 = ? = 0 So, from what I can tell, your link is pure BS and I note the dates of said "data" are same time period they needed "facts" to close down all the mom and pop dairy's in the 1980's so giant corporation dairy's could take over. You are being led along like a blind SHEEP. . Wow! A repeat response. Consume what you wish. Just like a sheep, I'll drive on the correct side of the road. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE July 2 12 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: So child, 0 x 840 = ? = 0 Did you read the paper? Hardly anyone drinks raw dairy which complicates the math. Would you suggest that the polio vaccine does nothing as nobody catches polio even without the vaccine? We have essentially eliminated raw milk therefore very few get sick from it. Very similar is the concept that when we eliminate coal use the number of deaths attributed to coal falls to zero. That doesn't mean coal is safe to use, it just means we eliminated it and all the associated risks. E-charger, and perhaps yourself, will wrongly take that reduction in deaths as evidence coal is safe instead of the much more logical interpretation that coal elimination has made us safe. No raw milk, no raw milk deaths. Simple. If you want raw milk buy a cow and suck on its boobs. Mmm warm pus and whatever literal crap is on a cows underside. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,194 July 2 16 hours ago, turbguy said: Wow! A repeat response. Consume what you wish. Just like a sheep, I'll drive on the correct side of the road. Ah, still an arrogant coward who can't admit when they are wrong by being duped by big business slander for their own power and greed. Sheep 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,553 July 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Ah, still an arrogant coward who can't admit when they are wrong by being duped by big business slander for their own power and greed. Sheep I'll just drive on the correct side of the road, like 99.9999999% of the sheep here do. While the desire for profit can take businessmen to implement rather extreme practices, I believe you give such charlatans WAY too much credit. Edited July 2 by turbguy 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 July 4 Love dairy industry. There could be little wastage if one knows how. By chance, purchased a pack of full cream milk. After a week, upon expired, the milk turned curd. Test indicated it was YOGURT. If one doesn't like to eat yogurt, one could place the curd onto a sieving cloth to remove excessive water. A day later, it would be called CHEESE 🧀. 'o' If one does not like soft, fresh cheese, allows it to ferment naturally. Then, one will have "AGED cheese". In addition, excessive unsold liquid milk can be sprayed dry to form powder to increase shelf life. When pasteurization is not possible, for example, purchasing fresh pressed milk from a cattle farm, we used to heat it to just boiling. Separation of extra fat and milk would be obvious. We used to throw out what was floating during separation and keep the milk for drinking. It usually would be still thick and rich in nutrients. But we can hardly have real full cream milk or milk powder any more here. Most, if not all, are formulated milk powder with added things. Could not believe my eyes when i saw vegetable oil, vitamine C in some full cream milk for the first time. The latest has been adding probiotic e.g. bacteria, fungus, virus, protozoa etc into the powder. The claim has been "it helps to ease people with constipation. And promote healthy guts." ...... May be, it is not the milk that has not been pasteurized, but these additional things which are not naturally found in milk that have caused problems?? When one good concept to promote healthy guts is overdone, unexpected side effect would show, is it not? Like everything else...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 5 Can we stop the discussion about milk it has no relevance whatsoever to the title of this thread! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,553 July 5 (edited) 10 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Can we stop the discussion about milk it has no relevance whatsoever to the title of this thread! You bet. It was just one instance of the difference between right wing-left wing divisive opinions. It almost arises to the stance of a "SOVCIT". Edited July 5 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 15 Where the heck was the security at Trump's rally??? The man is a divisive figure but doesnt deserve to be shot at! You Americans do love your guns don't you! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Gato + 254 Bs August 15 On 6/23/2024 at 5:52 PM, TailingsPond said: In this case they decommissioned the plant back in '91. I agree that newer technologies will reduce coal pollution. 100% reduction by elimination of coal. You need coal to make steel. duh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE August 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, El Gato said: You need coal to make steel. duh! Yes, but that is a different kind of coal. Metallurgical coal is much different from the junk they burn in power plants. Charcoal for your BBQ is also different, as is activated carbon. Edited August 15 by TailingsPond 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP August 16 11 hours ago, El Gato said: You need coal to make steel. duh! Not necessarily! 12 Leading Green Steel Companies In 2024 [Full Review] (climatesort.com) Industry Transition Tracker 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuarterCenturyVet + 312 JL August 16 14 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Not necessarily! 12 Leading Green Steel Companies In 2024 [Full Review] (climatesort.com) Industry Transition Tracker Thus, the coal industry is dead. Obviously with that much steel made via "green energy" we can save the world from that building block of life; CO2. GTFOH. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP August 19 On 8/16/2024 at 11:46 PM, QuarterCenturyVet said: Thus, the coal industry is dead. Obviously with that much steel made via "green energy" we can save the world from that building block of life; CO2. GTFOH. Just pointing out there are alternatives and the steel companies are under big pressure to reduce their Co2 footprint. The coal industry isnt dead but it is certainly dying in the Western world ,just look at the % mix of powergen and coal's declining numbers. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE August 25 Like any cockroach the cult is scurrying into the shadows... "Any day now" they will return victorious! haha! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM August 31 What a day in America! what happened to EWO ....last time he posted he was ringing a bell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuarterCenturyVet + 312 JL September 9 On 8/19/2024 at 2:47 AM, Rob Plant said: Just pointing out there are alternatives and the steel companies are under big pressure to reduce their Co2 footprint. The coal industry isnt dead but it is certainly dying in the Western world ,just look at the % mix of powergen and coal's declining numbers. Not talking about power here, however. Also, sarcasm; look it up. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,553 September 9 (edited) On 8/15/2024 at 2:33 PM, El Gato said: You need coal to make steel. duh! Actually, coal is NOT used to make iron (steel's main component). Coal IS used to make coke, transformed in a coke oven, typically at temperatures over 2000 ⁰F. Coke is used to make iron. BTW, I recommend you keep a FAR distance from a coke oven. Those ovens' emissions are REALLY nasty! Coke ovens emit a variety of pollutants, including: Particulate matter (PM): These are tiny particles that can be inhaled and cause respiratory problems. Sulfur oxides (SOx): Sulfur compounds that contribute to acid rain and air pollution. Nitrogen oxides (NOx): Nitrogen compounds that contribute to air pollution and acid rain. Volatile organic compounds (VOCs): Organic compounds that can contribute to air pollution and smog. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs): Organic compounds that are known carcinogens. Greenhouse gases: Carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4), which contribute to climate change. To reduce emissions from coke ovens, modern plants often incorporate pollution control technologies such as: Dry scrubbing: This process removes sulfur oxides from flue gas by reacting them with a dry sorbent. Selective catalytic reduction (SCR): This process reduces nitrogen oxides by reacting them with anhydrous ammonia (!) in the presence of a catalyst. Wet scrubbing: This process removes particulate matter and other pollutants from flue gas by washing it with a liquid scrubber. Similar, if not identical technologies are used at coal-fired power plants. Edited September 9 by turbguy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 12 Bad day for Trump! Came up with all sorts of lies in the debate! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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