Investment in renewables tanking

[markslawson + 1,057]

Posters on this site have been denying the reality of an apparent collapse in investment in green energy projects. Whenever this is mentioned they quote annual figures and total investment in teh sector in much the same manner as characters in movies hold up a Christian Cross to deter vampires. Sure some of the past annual growth looks impressive, if you don’t try to adjust the quoted plated capacity new wind and solar projects with the likely capacity factor. But in 2022 and this year green energy investments seem to have hit a wall, particularly in the last quarter of 2022 and the first quarter of this year.

This is from the wind lobby group WindEurope, in February. The European Commission wants wind to be 43% of EU electricity consumption by 2030. But right now new investments and wind turbine orders are falling. 2022 saw only 13 GW of new wind farm investments announced. Not a single offshore wind farm reached final investment decision. Wind turbine orders fell by 47% on 2021 to 11 GW.

 There are two reasons why wind investments are falling.

First is the high inflation in input prices which is insufficiently reflected in developers’ revenues. Higher commodity and other input costs have added 25-40% to the price of turbines, but wind farm developers are often stuck with a revenue base that is not indexed in line with this. Governments must fully index their auction prices and tariffs.

Second, a series of unhelpful interventions in electricity markets by different national Governments have badly undermined investor confidence.

Remember the 13 GW figure actually works out to an average output of 4.3 GW (average output for a windfarm is typically one third of plated capacity) and is for all of Europe. In other words, effectively nothing.

In Australia, the Clean Energy Council has been producing releases pointing to impressive numbers for investment, with one story claiming that investment rose a full order of magnitude in the December 2022 quarter. Really? Anyway a check of commissioned projects (a more reliable indicator than proposals or finance approvals) listed on the site shows that just 17 were commissioned in 2022, representing 1,248 Megawatts (MW) of installed capacity, as opposed to 48 completed in covid-stricken 2021 adding up to 4,589 MW, and 3,205 MW worth of projects in 2020. In 2023 (meaning the March quarter of 2023) the number of projects was two, albeit seemingly large ones, adding up to 442 MWs.

 

Why has this happened? WindEurope cited above gives part of the answer. Also, elsewhere the generous subsidies/tax breaks offered by the US Inflation Reduction Act is cited as siphoning off European investment to the US (I have not looked at the US figures but I'm not hopeful they will be much better). In addition, and probably mostly importantly of all, markets did not do well generally in 2022. A count of Initial Public Offerings (for Australia) on the securities exchange by professional services firm HLB Mann Judd shows that the number of new IPOs fell by 48 per cent in 2022, and total funds raised collapsed 91 per cent. Investment in renewables may pick up later, but in Australia the present hiatus could result in disaster in a few years, with activists still intent on throwing away the fossil fuel backup. As matters stand there may be nothing to replace those coal plants. Where can I buy a generator?

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

Mark: religious cult members abhore logic. 

[notsonice + 1,243]

6 hours ago, markslawson said:

Posters on this site have been denying the reality of an apparent collapse in investment in green energy projects. Whenever this is mentioned they quote annual figures and total investment in teh sector in much the same manner as characters in movies hold up a Christian Cross to deter vampires. Sure some of the past annual growth looks impressive, if you don’t try to adjust the quoted plated capacity new wind and solar projects with the likely capacity factor. But in 2022 and this year green energy investments seem to have hit a wall, particularly in the last quarter of 2022 and the first quarter of this year.

This is from the wind lobby group WindEurope, in February. The European Commission wants wind to be 43% of EU electricity consumption by 2030. But right now new investments and wind turbine orders are falling. 2022 saw only 13 GW of new wind farm investments announced. Not a single offshore wind farm reached final investment decision. Wind turbine orders fell by 47% on 2021 to 11 GW.

 There are two reasons why wind investments are falling.

First is the high inflation in input prices which is insufficiently reflected in developers’ revenues. Higher commodity and other input costs have added 25-40% to the price of turbines, but wind farm developers are often stuck with a revenue base that is not indexed in line with this. Governments must fully index their auction prices and tariffs.

Second, a series of unhelpful interventions in electricity markets by different national Governments have badly undermined investor confidence.

Remember the 13 GW figure actually works out to an average output of 4.3 GW (average output for a windfarm is typically one third of plated capacity) and is for all of Europe. In other words, effectively nothing.

In Australia, the Clean Energy Council has been producing releases pointing to impressive numbers for investment, with one story claiming that investment rose a full order of magnitude in the December 2022 quarter. Really? Anyway a check of commissioned projects (a more reliable indicator than proposals or finance approvals) listed on the site shows that just 17 were commissioned in 2022, representing 1,248 Megawatts (MW) of installed capacity, as opposed to 48 completed in covid-stricken 2021 adding up to 4,589 MW, and 3,205 MW worth of projects in 2020. In 2023 (meaning the March quarter of 2023) the number of projects was two, albeit seemingly large ones, adding up to 442 MWs.

 

Why has this happened? WindEurope cited above gives part of the answer. Also, elsewhere the generous subsidies/tax breaks offered by the US Inflation Reduction Act is cited as siphoning off European investment to the US (I have not looked at the US figures but I'm not hopeful they will be much better). In addition, and probably mostly importantly of all, markets did not do well generally in 2022. A count of Initial Public Offerings (for Australia) on the securities exchange by professional services firm HLB Mann Judd shows that the number of new IPOs fell by 48 per cent in 2022, and total funds raised collapsed 91 per cent. Investment in renewables may pick up later, but in Australia the present hiatus could result in disaster in a few years, with activists still intent on throwing away the fossil fuel backup. As matters stand there may be nothing to replace those coal plants. Where can I buy a generator?

the reality of an apparent collapse in investment in green energy projects.????? Pure 100 Percent ignorant BS

Enjoy the read............stats and data that proves your post is just BS

 

a link to the full article

https://energydigital.com/articles/investment-in-renewables-outstrips-oil-and-gas-for-first-time

 

Renewables investment outstrips oil and gas for first time

By Bizclik Admin

October 17, 2022

4 mins

Rystad Energy report finds that capital investments in renewables reached $494bn in 2022, compared to $446bn into oil and gas for the same period

Investments in renewables have outstripped upstream oil and gas for the first time, research from Rystad Energy has found, with capital investments in renewables reaching $494 billion in 2022, as compared to $446 billion into oil and gas for the year.

Edited April 18, 2023 by notsonice

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

The title of the thread "Investment in renewables tanking"

Then you go on to talk solely on 1 renewable ie wind.

Yep inflation is a factor currently but probably more of an issue is the licensing issues across Europe thanks to the beurocracy of the EU.

Regarding investment in wind "tanking" I think its the calm before the storm (pun intended)

"Reduced installations were “caused by slow permitting processes in Europe” and “dampened activity levels” in the US, where the industry was ramping up “ahead of a busy 2024”, Vestas added. The US pick-up next year would be driven by the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), which has earmarked $369bn for clean energy and climate-related projects, said Vestas."

Yep $369bn! "tanking" probably not.

https://www.ft.com/content/74ff8ff7-8009-413a-8f2e-2a3c34695d78

Also from wind Europe

"We expect Europe to install 129 GW of new wind farms over the period 2023-2027, and the EU-27 to install 98 GW of that."

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Rob Plant

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

14 hours ago, markslawson said:

Posters on this site have been denying the reality of an apparent collapse in investment in green energy projects. Whenever this is mentioned they quote annual figures and total investment in teh sector in much the same manner as characters in movies hold up a Christian Cross to deter vampires. Sure some of the past annual growth looks impressive, if you don’t try to adjust the quoted plated capacity new wind and solar projects with the likely capacity factor. But in 2022 and this year green energy investments seem to have hit a wall, particularly in the last quarter of 2022 and the first quarter of this year.

This is from the wind lobby group WindEurope, in February. The European Commission wants wind to be 43% of EU electricity consumption by 2030. But right now new investments and wind turbine orders are falling. 2022 saw only 13 GW of new wind farm investments announced. Not a single offshore wind farm reached final investment decision. Wind turbine orders fell by 47% on 2021 to 11 GW.

 There are two reasons why wind investments are falling.

First is the high inflation in input prices which is insufficiently reflected in developers’ revenues. Higher commodity and other input costs have added 25-40% to the price of turbines, but wind farm developers are often stuck with a revenue base that is not indexed in line with this. Governments must fully index their auction prices and tariffs.

Second, a series of unhelpful interventions in electricity markets by different national Governments have badly undermined investor confidence.

Remember the 13 GW figure actually works out to an average output of 4.3 GW (average output for a windfarm is typically one third of plated capacity) and is for all of Europe. In other words, effectively nothing.

In Australia, the Clean Energy Council has been producing releases pointing to impressive numbers for investment, with one story claiming that investment rose a full order of magnitude in the December 2022 quarter. Really? Anyway a check of commissioned projects (a more reliable indicator than proposals or finance approvals) listed on the site shows that just 17 were commissioned in 2022, representing 1,248 Megawatts (MW) of installed capacity, as opposed to 48 completed in covid-stricken 2021 adding up to 4,589 MW, and 3,205 MW worth of projects in 2020. In 2023 (meaning the March quarter of 2023) the number of projects was two, albeit seemingly large ones, adding up to 442 MWs.

 

Why has this happened? WindEurope cited above gives part of the answer. Also, elsewhere the generous subsidies/tax breaks offered by the US Inflation Reduction Act is cited as siphoning off European investment to the US (I have not looked at the US figures but I'm not hopeful they will be much better). In addition, and probably mostly importantly of all, markets did not do well generally in 2022. A count of Initial Public Offerings (for Australia) on the securities exchange by professional services firm HLB Mann Judd shows that the number of new IPOs fell by 48 per cent in 2022, and total funds raised collapsed 91 per cent. Investment in renewables may pick up later, but in Australia the present hiatus could result in disaster in a few years, with activists still intent on throwing away the fossil fuel backup. As matters stand there may be nothing to replace those coal plants. Where can I buy a generator?

https://fortune.com/2023/01/26/inflation-reduction-act-electric-vehicle-tax-credit-joe-manchin/

Joe Manchin isn’t sure that he wants you to have an electric vehicle tax credit

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Joe Manchin isn’t sure that he wants you to have an electric vehicle tax credit

BYMATTHEW DALY AND THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

January 26, 2023 at 1:28 AM PST

Senator Joe Manchin.

MARKUS SCHREIBER—AP IMAGES

 

 

 

 

Ratcheting up his criticism, Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin on Wednesday moved to delay new tax credits for electric vehicles, a key feature of President Joe Biden’s landmark climate law.

 

 

Manchin said guidelines issued by the Treasury Department allow manufacturers in Europe and other countries to bypass requirements that significant portions of EV batteries be produced in North America.

The climate law, officially known as the Inflation Reduction Act, “is first and foremost an energy security bill,” Manchin said, adding that the EV tax credits were supposed “to grow domestic manufacturing and reduce our reliance on foreign supply chains for the critical minerals needed to produce EV batteries.”

Manchin’s bid to delay the tax credits surfaced as Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm and White House climate adviser Ali Zaidi visited the Washington, D.C., Auto Show on Wednesday to highlight the administration’s efforts to boost electric vehicles and related infrastructure.

EV sales have tripled since Biden, a Democrat, took office two years ago, Granholm said. There are now more than 2 million EVs and 100,000 chargers on U.S. roadways, with more than $100 billion invested or pledged for EVs and their supply chains, including batteries, she said.

While batteries and components have long been manufactured in China, “we’re going to bring that manufacturing home,” Granholm told reporters.

“We’re going to give Americans the chance to drive American vehicles made by American workers — and that is only going to compound as Americans start to drive these vehicles and realize how great they are,” she said. “The demand is going to go very high. We expect that by 2030, half of all the vehicles sold in the United States will be electric.”

Granholm and the White House declined to comment on Manchin’s bill, but the measure by the West Virginia lawmaker is unlikely to gain traction in the Senate, where Democrats hold a slim majority and have shown no inclination to reopen a bill they just passed on a party-line vote. During the midterm election campaign, Republicans criticized Biden and other Democrats for supporting electric vehicles, citing their relative high costs and batteries made in China.

Tax credits of up to $7,500 per vehicle are intended to spur EV sales and domestic production of vehicles and batteries while reducing planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions. European and Asian allies, including French President Emmanuel Macron, have criticized the rules as unfair to foreign manufacturers.

While Macron applauded Biden’s efforts to curb climate change, he said during a visit to Washington that subsidies in the new law could be an enormous problem for European companies.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/credit-crunch-us-bank-crisis-stock-corporate-earnings-recession-svb-2023-4

 

'A credit crunch has started' as banks tighten lending by the most on record, Morgan Stanley CIO says

Edited April 18, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-01/auto-sales-preview-march-2023-loan-rate-car-price-surges-worry-dealers#xj4y7vzkg

Soaring Auto Loan Rates Are the Latest Roadblock for Car Sales

• Average monthly payments have swelled to $784 on rising rates
• Buyers walking away as financing adds thousands to car prices

Edited April 18, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

https://www.rystadenergy.com/news/ev-sales-collapse-as-subsidies-and-tax-credits-come-to-an-abrupt-halt

EV sales collapse as subsidies and tax credits come to an abrupt halt

The global electric vehicle (EV) market is reeling from one of the most dramatic collapses in monthly sales to date, with Rystad Energy research showing that only 672,000 units were sold in January, almost half of December 2022 sales and a mere 3% year-on-year increase over January 2022. The EV market share among all passenger car sales also tumbled to 14% in January, well down on the 23% seen in December.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/G7-Ministers-Decide-Natural-Gas-Investment-Is-Still-Necessary.html

G7 Ministers Decide Natural Gas Investment Is Still Necessary

By ZeroHedge - Apr 18, 2023, 12:00 PM CDT

• Environmentalists are unhappy with the results of the last G7 summit in Sapporo.
• The G7 ministers also concluded their conclave on Sunday without setting a deadline for halting new coal investments.
• The G7 ministers agreed that new investment in natural gas was still

Environmentalists are up in arms over apparent slack added to the Group of Seven's energy and environmental goals, after ministers decided that the 'war in Ukraine and its effects on oil and gas' warrant breaking what are supposed to be 'firm commitments' that climate advocates say are necessary to limit global warming.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[markslawson + 1,057]

15 hours ago, notsonice said:

the reality of an apparent collapse in investment in green energy projects.????? Pure 100 Percent ignorant BS

Enjoy the read............stats and data that proves your post is just BS

 

a link to the full article

https://energydigital.com/articles/investment-in-renewables-outstrips-oil-and-gas-for-first-time

I dealt with this before. Why pointing to the reality of the problems in renewable energy should bother you I don't know. Even the article says that the incentives weren't there until recently. Anyway, if you have only failed positions and abuse to offer then there is no point in my responding to any further comments from you. 

[markslawson + 1,057]

11 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yep inflation is a factor currently but probably more of an issue is the licensing issues across Europe thanks to the beurocracy of the EU.

Regarding investment in wind "tanking" I think its the calm before the storm (pun intended)

"Reduced installations were “caused by slow permitting processes in Europe” and “dampened activity levels” in the US, where the industry was ramping up “ahead of a busy 2024”, Vestas added.

Rob - those are useful points. Investment in this area will certainly recover somewhat and a lot of the present investment downturn, denied by some, would be due to the general investment climate. My point is more about the impossible deadlines being set for getting rid of coal plants and not much being built to replace them. Even those writing absurd stories about vast increases in investment agree that too few are being built. As for wind it is by far the largest contributor to the renewable energy scene, outside biomass and hydro (those count as a renewable but without any of the problems of wind and solar). No one seems to pay much attention to solar.    

[markslawson + 1,057]

7 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Environmentalists are up in arms over apparent slack added to the Group of Seven's energy and environmental goals, after ministers decided that the 'war in Ukraine and its effects on oil and gas' warrant breaking what are supposed to be 'firm commitments' that climate advocates say are necessary to limit global warming.

Thanks for all the responses.. maybe the EV posts weren't strictly relevant to the topic but I was personally interested, particularly as I'd been abused for pointing out that very point. No subsidies, no EV sales. It always happens.  

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

7 hours ago, markslawson said:

Rob - those are useful points. Investment in this area will certainly recover somewhat and a lot of the present investment downturn, denied by some, would be due to the general investment climate. My point is more about the impossible deadlines being set for getting rid of coal plants and not much being built to replace them. Even those writing absurd stories about vast increases in investment agree that too few are being built. As for wind it is by far the largest contributor to the renewable energy scene, outside biomass and hydro (those count as a renewable but without any of the problems of wind and solar). No one seems to pay much attention to solar.    

Mark I agree with you we will still need FF (hopefully mostly NG as its less pollutive) for a long time especially whilst there is no decent way of storing power from renewables, batteries are a long way off for this with current tech.

To be honest I think the world will be power hungry indefinitely and for that reason we will need a mix of powergen for a very very long time until something else comes along thats more economic and less polluting and is the obvious way to go. Maybe fusion if they crack that, but even if they do it aint gonna be cheap!

Oil & gas isnt going away for a very long time if ever, it will certainly still be in the mix for the rest of this century but on a steady decline.

Heres a project thats had the go ahead for solar and wind, not cheap though, then again its £20b cheaper than Hinkley point C for the same output.

https://electrek.co/2022/04/21/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/#:~:text=An agreement has been reached with the National,capable of supplying 8% of Britain’s electricity needs.

I do think interconnectors are a good idea for various local countries to benefit from. The UK currently has 8 which can either import or export 8.4GW of power depending on demand and economics. The Norway link is purely renewables, theirs being  hydro pumped storage and the UK's wind.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Rob Plant

[NickW + 2,714]

More evidence to contradict the alternate reality world of mark Lawson😄

Global Low-Carbon Energy Technology Investment Surges Past $1 Trillion for the First Time | BloombergNEF (bnef.com)

Global investment in the low-carbon energy transition totaled $1.1 trillion in 2022 – a new record and a huge acceleration from the year before – as the energy crisis and policy action drove faster deployment of clean energy technologies.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

2 hours ago, NickW said:

More evidence to contradict the alternate reality world of mark Lawson😄

Global Low-Carbon Energy Technology Investment Surges Past $1 Trillion for the First Time | BloombergNEF (bnef.com)

Global investment in the low-carbon energy transition totaled $1.1 trillion in 2022 – a new record and a huge acceleration from the year before – as the energy crisis and policy action drove faster deployment of clean energy technologies.

Old news...The world's greatest Con is being exposed.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-and-the-media-are-ev-grifters-carbon-tax-emissions-fossil-fuels-subsidies-3c6d6a21

Biden and the Media Are Electric-Vehicle Grifters

If the president succeeds, global emissions will be 0.18% lower.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,552]

18 hours ago, markslawson said:

Thanks for all the responses.. maybe the EV posts weren't strictly relevant to the topic but I was personally interested, particularly as I'd been abused for pointing out that very point. No subsidies, no EV sales. It always happens.  

Actually Mr Lawson your tilted thread has by far more depth that one can realize at first bite.

The inflation Reduction Act is being exposed, it's true nature is being exposed. Have a quick read below, Macron confronting Manchin openly stating  Your Hurting My Country". 

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/19/joe-manchin-davos-inflation-reduction-act-europe-00078510

You’re hurting my country’: Manchin faces Europe’s wrath

The West Virginia senator is pushing Europeans to stop worrying and love the Inflation Reduction Act.

Now, Manchin has marched into the den of the European elite, mingling at the World Economic Forum in Davos with an audience of continental technocrats, true-believing free traders and oligarchs more at ease in Monte Carlo than Morgantown, West Virginia, where Manchin played college football.

The gulf in political and cultural sensibilities could scarcely have been starker.

 

How does a US law effect world investment. Why would a US law effect world investment. Free trade? Lmao or free money? No strings attached.

I've always pondered as to why China would get itself so deeply involved with Australia, 52% of the world's lithium perhaps? 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[markslawson + 1,057]

16 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Heres a project thats had the go ahead for solar and wind, not cheap though, then again its £20b cheaper than Hinkley point C for the same output.

https://electrek.co/2022/04/21/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/#:~:text=An agreement has been reached with the National,capable of supplying 8% of Britain’s electricity needs.

I do think interconnectors are a good idea for various local countries to benefit from. The UK currently has 8 which can either import or export 8.4GW of power depending on demand and economics. The Norway link is purely renewables, theirs being  hydro pumped storage and the UK's wind.

Its an interesting point on the renewables link but there is a world of difference between Hinkley and the Moroccan project. Although it is in a desert, the project involves covering 1500 square kilometres with solar panels and leaving them out in desert heat. How long would they last? A decade at the most I would have thought and the sun does not shine at night. In fact, it  gets very cold in deserts at night, so more stress. Panels would have to be continually replaced. How windy is this place? No matter how you cut it, power from the project will still be intermittent, battery or not, as opposed to the dispatchable power from Hinkley. I wonder that they are building it, but I guess they must have a contract to sell power to the UK system (such a contract would be essential - can't start work with out it). It should be interesting.. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. All food for thought.    

[turbguy + 1,535]

3 hours ago, markslawson said:

Its an interesting point on the renewables link but there is a world of difference between Hinkley and the Moroccan project. Although it is in a desert, the project involves covering 1500 square kilometres with solar panels and leaving them out in desert heat. How long would they last? A decade at the most I would have thought and the sun does not shine at night. In fact, it  gets very cold in deserts at night, so more stress. Panels would have to be continually replaced. How windy is this place? No matter how you cut it, power from the project will still be intermittent, battery or not, as opposed to the dispatchable power from Hinkley. I wonder that they are building it, but I guess they must have a contract to sell power to the UK system (such a contract would be essential - can't start work with out it). It should be interesting.. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. All food for thought.    

I can't think of a US nuc plant that is very "dispatchable".  They are either "pedal to the metal", or off.  They are the true base load machines.

Things can be different in other countries, however. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by turbguy

[notsonice + 1,243]

15 hours ago, NickW said:

More evidence to contradict the alternate reality world of mark Lawson😄

Global Low-Carbon Energy Technology Investment Surges Past $1 Trillion for the First Time | BloombergNEF (bnef.com)

Global investment in the low-carbon energy transition totaled $1.1 trillion in 2022 – a new record and a huge acceleration from the year before – as the energy crisis and policy action drove faster deployment of clean energy technologies.

hard to deny that renewables are now taking over......Rome was not built in a day......Putin help speed it all up with his gameplaying with Nat Gas and his Ill fated invasion of Ukraine...

The alternate reality Mark is living, thank God, is just fake news...

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

7 hours ago, markslawson said:

Its an interesting point on the renewables link but there is a world of difference between Hinkley and the Moroccan project. Although it is in a desert, the project involves covering 1500 square kilometres with solar panels and leaving them out in desert heat. How long would they last? A decade at the most I would have thought and the sun does not shine at night. In fact, it  gets very cold in deserts at night, so more stress. Panels would have to be continually replaced. How windy is this place? No matter how you cut it, power from the project will still be intermittent, battery or not, as opposed to the dispatchable power from Hinkley. I wonder that they are building it, but I guess they must have a contract to sell power to the UK system (such a contract would be essential - can't start work with out it). It should be interesting.. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. All food for thought.    

Yep agreed there will be maintenance costs galore I'm sure. Youre right about temperature changes which will stress the panels and infrastructure. I also wonder about desert storms covering these panels in sand. However Hinkley Point C will need routine maintenance and then in 40-50 years it will have to be decommissioned and the waste dealt with which is extremely expensive. Sizewell C has had recent government approval and will be another new nuke on the same scale as Hinkley. The UK is not just going for renewables its looking at a very varied energy mix including nuclear, hydrogen, wind, solar, hydro pumped storage, even nuclear fusion! etc etc NG still makes up the bulk of UK powergen though and this wont change for a decade or so I believe.

The UK government in its infinite wisdom has provided funding for the first phase already for a fusion plant. Might be wiser to spend the money on something that actually works but we are where we are.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/05/uk-selects-site-for-prototype-fusion-energy-plant.html#:~:text=UK selects site for prototype fusion energy plant%2C,used in today’s nuclear power plants. More items

UK is synonymous with wind power but as we have the jet stream that gives us our shit weather it also very rarely leaves us with wind droughts, so it makes sense for us to mainly look at this form of renewable energy, other countries not so much. Hornsea 1+2 are pretty impressive offshore wind farms and Hornsea 3 will be much bigger while Hornsea 4 is in the pre-application phase.

https://hornseaprojects.co.uk/#:~:text=The Hornsea Projects are four record-breaking offshore wind,a step-change in size from current wind farms.

[markslawson + 1,057]

21 hours ago, turbguy said:

I can't think of a US nuc plant that is very "dispatchable".  They are either "pedal to the metal", or off.  They are the true base load machines.

Things can be different in other countries, however. 

The small modular reactors are good load followers and some nuclear reactors don't do load following very well, it is true (reactors in Canada can't vary their output very much, I recall reading somewhere, although I don't remember why). But Hinkley will get up to a load and stay there and could probably vary somewhat. It doesn't rely on wind..   

[turbguy + 1,535]

Anything smaller than a commercial-sized PWR or BWR will cycle "better".  Look at what the Naval reactors can do.

The big stuff stays put.  They don't want  to "challenge the systems".  The owners don't even "like" periodic on-line testing of turbine inlet valves since it requires a short period of down-power.

That said, there ain't any commercial SMR's in the US (yet).

Edited April 21, 2023 by turbguy

[markslawson + 1,057]

22 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yep agreed there will be maintenance costs galore I'm sure. Youre right about temperature changes which will stress the panels and infrastructure.

I took another look at the Moroccan renewables project as I was wondering why I hadn't heard much about it. Check out the Wikipedia entry which sums up what I could gather. This project hasn't been given the go ahead yet. Like all those projects it has to have a buy contract from the UK government, and for a project that big it would have to be a huge contract. And why the UK? Spain is way closer and there are existing links. Its managed to attract some project funding, but that's not so unusual for those projects. I'd be wary of having anything to do with it, myself. I'd be interested if they do get those buy contracts, otherwise I'll move on.   

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

1 hour ago, markslawson said:

I took another look at the Moroccan renewables project as I was wondering why I hadn't heard much about it. Check out the Wikipedia entry which sums up what I could gather. This project hasn't been given the go ahead yet. Like all those projects it has to have a buy contract from the UK government, and for a project that big it would have to be a huge contract. And why the UK? Spain is way closer and there are existing links. Its managed to attract some project funding, but that's not so unusual for those projects. I'd be wary of having anything to do with it, myself. I'd be interested if they do get those buy contracts, otherwise I'll move on.   

Yes but the wiki page was May 2022

I agree the government hasnt given approval yet but this is the latest news on this

https://xlinks.co/powering-up-britain-policy/

The project has also secured investment from CON energy in Germany since the Wiki report.

I have no idea why Spain isnt an option, although large areas of suitable land may already be allocated by the Spanish government for their own powergen use.

It seems unlikely to me that it wont happen.

[TailingsPond + 671]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/14/cars/volkswagen-ev-investment-canada-plant/index.html

$193 Billion investment is not chump change.