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If hydrogen is the answer, you're asking the wrong question

markslawson in Renewables

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notsonice    + 1,255

DM

5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Green Hydrogen Gets Greener With Record-Breaking Solar Device

And another scientific improvement!

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Green-Hydrogen-Gets-Greener-With-Record-Breaking-Solar-Device.html

The guy from down under is not going to like what you are posting........

If hydrogen is the answer, you're asking the wrong question

markslawson April 24 in Renewables

 

ouch he is barking up the wrong tree

 

 

Great News

Tech is going to wipe out Coal and Oil faster than anyone can imagine

 

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

12 hours ago, notsonice said:

The guy from down under is not going to like what you are posting........

He'll be really pissed at me! lol

lets post some more then.

Australia’s clean hydrogen revolution is a path to prosperity – but it must be powered by renewable energy

https://theconversation.com/australias-clean-hydrogen-revolution-is-a-path-to-prosperity-but-it-must-be-powered-by-renewable-energy-169832

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

CWP Global thinks big (26GW-big) for Australia’s hydrogen revolution

https://www.austrade.gov.au/news/success-stories/cwp-global-thinks-big-26gw-big-for-australia-s-hydrogen-revolution

Mark its happenning in your own back yard now and 26GW is pretty damn big!

I think you need to get going on that book of yours to wake everyone up from this hydrogen mania! 🤣

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

Biden Unveils $7 Billion Jackpot To Build Regional Hydrogen Hubs

Biden Unveils $7 Billion Jackpot To Build Regional Hydrogen Hubs | OilPrice.com

Yet another massive project on the way in H2

Mark have you changed your mind on this yet?

The level of investment in H2 is staggering and clearly it is going to be one of the key "new fuels" of the future for lots of different industries and transportation in the future.

Technology breakthroughs are almost weekly, driving costs down rapidly.

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notsonice    + 1,255

DM

8 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Biden Unveils $7 Billion Jackpot To Build Regional Hydrogen Hubs

Biden Unveils $7 Billion Jackpot To Build Regional Hydrogen Hubs | OilPrice.com

Yet another massive project on the way in H2

Mark have you changed your mind on this yet?

The level of investment in H2 is staggering and clearly it is going to be one of the key "new fuels" of the future for lots of different industries and transportation in the future.

Technology breakthroughs are almost weekly, driving costs down rapidly.

hydrogen ----ammonia

they go hand in hand.......

first fulfilling the existing market for Ammonia which is huge in the US......Think Fertilizer

 

Green Hydrogen converted to Green Ammonia today has so much room to grow

Third world countries will finally get a real cheap source of home made Ammonia based fertilizers

 

right now annual global CO2 emissions from Ammonia production is in the 600 to 700 million tons

Ammonia Roadmap

 

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notsonice    + 1,255

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footeab@yahoo.com    + 2,190

footeab@yahoo.com

No, Ammonia will NOT be mass transported.  Why?  Ammonia has one main use: Fertilzer... Sounds good right? Everyone needs fertilizer right? Right?  Except, the acerage(soil types) and crop types you can use Ammonia on is VERY LIMITED and can only be applied at VERY specific parts of the year as it goes POOF into the air without special circumstances and applied fixers(yet more expense).  It also requires MUCH more expensive equipment to handle which leaves the developing world out, and you cannot store it effectively without ... yet MORE expensive equipment which eliminates even most LARGE farms in the west who do have the $$$.  Only the extremely large farms can use it and then only SOME TIMES.   

If you have to convert the ammonia to H2 to use in other industries, this = horrifically inefficient and why it won't be done by anyone other than government boondongle fiat.  But, Ammonia can be more easily stored than H2... But if you want a storage of power, why not just CH4 instead of NH3?  They are both gases, but one is not horrifically toxic.  Ammonia will never happen other than government fiat.  CH4 on the other hand made from Solar/Wind is at least in a form EVERYONE can use for EVERYTHING fitting Existing Infrastructure!

The H2 religious cult is quite amusing.  Keep bringing these links, they are hilarious.  All these illiterate political whores blathering on about engineering, quite amusing. 

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

9 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

No, Ammonia will NOT be mass transported.  Why?  Ammonia has one main use: Fertilzer... Sounds good right? Everyone needs fertilizer right? Right?  Except, the acerage(soil types) and crop types you can use Ammonia on is VERY LIMITED and can only be applied at VERY specific parts of the year as it goes POOF into the air without special circumstances and applied fixers(yet more expense).  It also requires MUCH more expensive equipment to handle which leaves the developing world out, and you cannot store it effectively without ... yet MORE expensive equipment which eliminates even most LARGE farms in the west who do have the $$$.  Only the extremely large farms can use it and then only SOME TIMES.   

If you have to convert the ammonia to H2 to use in other industries, this = horrifically inefficient and why it won't be done by anyone other than government boondongle fiat.  But, Ammonia can be more easily stored than H2... But if you want a storage of power, why not just CH4 instead of NH3?  They are both gases, but one is not horrifically toxic.  Ammonia will never happen other than government fiat.  CH4 on the other hand made from Solar/Wind is at least in a form EVERYONE can use for EVERYTHING fitting Existing Infrastructure!

The H2 religious cult is quite amusing.  Keep bringing these links, they are hilarious.  All these illiterate political whores blathering on about engineering, quite amusing. 

Continue to bury your head in the sand its amusing.

Your ignorance to the investment in H2 production is frankly staggering!

Its a fledgling industry that every major energy company is jumping on everywhere, I suppose theyre all wrong and youre right? Ever thought you could just be wrong and their scientists know a damn sight more than you which is why they are ALL committing to billions of dollars in investment and start up projects?

Ive posted more than a dozen H2 tech breakthroughs on here in less than a year, you must be a luddite like ECO

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Jay McKinsey    + 1,490

Jay McKinsey

On 11/28/2023 at 4:07 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

No, Ammonia will NOT be mass transported. 

Ammonia is already mass transported you imbecile.

 

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Ammonia is already mass transported you imbecile.

 

He probably meant H2 which he would be correct about, however large scale pipelines are mooted which he probably doesnt know.

Hydrogen Deep Ocean Link: a global sustainable interconnected energy grid - ScienceDirect

Europe’s first national hydrogen pipeline network to start construction this month | Hydrogen news and intelligence (hydrogeninsight.com)

Europe pushes ahead with hydrogen pipelines to meet energy demand (ft.com)

European Firms Float Gulf Hydrogen Pipeline Concept - Market Insights (eepower.com)

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TailingsPond    + 1,006

GE

On 11/28/2023 at 5:07 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

No, Ammonia will NOT be mass transported.

But, Ammonia can be more easily stored than H2... But if you want a storage of power, why not just CH4 instead of NH3?  They are both gases, but one is not horrifically toxic.  Ammonia will never happen other than government fiat.  CH4 on the other hand made from Solar/Wind is at least in a form EVERYONE can use for EVERYTHING fitting Existing Infrastructure!

The H2 religious cult is quite amusing.  Keep bringing these links, they are hilarious.  All these illiterate political whores blathering on about engineering, quite amusing. 

As mentioned, ammonia is already mass transported. 

Ammonia leaks are a huge risk to human and aquatic health.  You can however, transport ammonia in a less risky solid form as ammonium salts.

Methane made from solar or wind would require CO2 and hydrogen to produce, so it's just different a form of storing hydrogen.  You can also dump hydrogen into existing natural gas infrastructure at low percentages.

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Meredith Poor    + 895

MP

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/09/white-hydrogen-deposit-france/

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1011445

These articles suggest we don't have to make hydrogen, all we have to do is find it in underground formations. The second of these two articles discusses looking for evidence of hydrogen deposits based on surface features - which ignores the amount of hydrogen that might be found under water.

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

(edited)

For those who dont believe H2 is a massively expanding industry then just take a quick look at the below link (its a good read) and see which companies are on the Hydrogen council and look at the level of investment that will happen by 2030 and is already happening as we speak.

Hydrogen-Insights-2023.pdf (hydrogencouncil.com)

Its mind boggling to think that Mark started this thread in the first place, as its obvious that all energy majors and global OEM's are all jumping on the H2 bandwagon. Maybe they know something he doesnt, hmmm.

Edited by Rob Plant

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

Mitsubishi to Invest in World’s Largest Green Hydrogen Project

Mitsubishi to Invest in World’s Largest Green Hydrogen Project | OilPrice.com

Mark it must  be a bitch to be soooo wrong on this topic.

Bet you wish you hadnt started this thread lol.

As of May 2023, more than 1,000 large-scale hydrogen projects have been announced globally, amounting to $320 billion in direct investments.27 Sept 2023

Do you think these global OEM's/utilities/energy firms have all gotten it wrong? Maybe you could advise them as a consultant where they are all going wrong, charge AUD 5K/ day for your services. You'll make a lot more than your book sales!

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footeab@yahoo.com    + 2,190

footeab@yahoo.com

On 1/17/2024 at 2:11 AM, Rob Plant said:

Mitsubishi to Invest in World’s Largest Green Hydrogen Project

Mitsubishi to Invest in World’s Largest Green Hydrogen Project | OilPrice.com

Mark it must  be a bitch to be soooo wrong on this topic.

Bet you wish you hadnt started this thread lol.

As of May 2023, more than 1,000 large-scale hydrogen projects have been announced globally, amounting to $320 billion in direct investments.27 Sept 2023

Do you think these global OEM's/utilities/energy firms have all gotten it wrong? Maybe you could advise them as a consultant where they are all going wrong, charge AUD 5K/ day for your services. You'll make a lot more than your book sales!

Did you bother to READ your link?  Is it being built in Japan?  No.  Rotterdam... via government GUARANTEED idiotic price points.  Are ANY of these projects being done with private money?  No. Why?  private companies can do math which fool salesmen can't and are PROUD they can't do math while whining others aren't doing the math for them along with nobrains. 

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

6 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Did you bother to READ your link?  Is it being built in Japan?  No.  Rotterdam... via government GUARANTEED idiotic price points.  Are ANY of these projects being done with private money?  No. Why?  private companies can do math which fool salesmen can't and are PROUD they can't do math while whining others aren't doing the math for them along with nobrains. 

Again youre demonstarting your backwardness.

What does it matter where the project is being done??? Mitsubishi are a global player!!

You again provide no evidence for your point of view

Do you really think no global OEM's, utilities, energy firms (Equinor, BP, Shell etc) have put any investment in themselves.

Yes there are MAX price points which they can then charge, this is to protect the consumer, this is standard practice, however the cost of the infratructure/project is largely borne by the above.

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

Oman Is Looking To Become a Green Energy Hub

Oman Is Looking To Become a Green Energy Hub | OilPrice.com

Many multinationals and Oil majors involved in various projects.

Key is if they get funding approval, but I doubt they wont as they need to diversify.

Literally everyone is looking at H2 and a way to get on the bandwagon.

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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

On 4/25/2023 at 2:04 AM, markslawson said:

Unlike power from coal and gas renewable energy can be generated anywhere

What a stupid comment, do you really think the price and efficiencies are the same for renewables in every country? Every country has different resources and weather patterns.

"Blakers cites an estimate that converting energy to hydrogen, shipping it to where it is needed and then converting back into energy could consume 70 per cent of the energy generated."

Why would anyone want to do that, thats utterly ridiculous? You can use ammonia to transport it, hell it can even power the ship!

The world's first clean ammonia-powered container ship | Yara International

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Meredith Poor    + 895

MP

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

"Blakers cites an estimate that converting energy to hydrogen, shipping it to where it is needed and then converting back into energy could consume 70 per cent of the energy generated."

By the time a tank full of gasoline is pumped into a car, how much of the energy pumped out of the ground as oil has been consumed separating out the contaminants, piping or trucking the oil to a storage tank, piping it to a refinery, refining it, piping or trucking the refined product to a service station, and so forth?

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