Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 17, 2023 On 7/1/2023 at 2:23 AM, RichieRich$ said: After spending most of the previous 25 years as a net exporter of energy the UK became a net importer in 2004. The gap between imports and exports has increased since 2004. In 2017 UK imports of energy were almost twice as large as its exports. Net imports made up 36% of UK energy needs. http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04046/assets/b6e893d8-c6a4-4baa-8f41-a901d7e05f1a.png In the same year the value of gross imports of energy of £45 billion or £18 billion more than gross exports. Gas and oil make up around 90% of energy imports. A relatively small amount of electricity is imported and coal import have fallen dramatically as much less coal is now used for generation. Only Norway, Canada and Australia of the OECD states are net exporters of energy. The UK’s energy import dependency is less than levels in France, Germany, Japan, Korea, and Italy, but greater than the US. The UK’s dependence on imported energy looks set to continue to increase in the future. This, alongside higher fuel prices and increased concern over the security of energy supply has increased the attention on energy imports and exports over the past decade. SAT WHAT! The UK imports between 40-50% of its NG mainly from Norway this represents approx 5GW of electricity production out of 30GW so when you say "the UK is dependent on imported energy", no it really isnt, it just chooses what is the most economical powergen at that given time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 17, 2023 On 7/1/2023 at 1:55 AM, markslawson said: Bwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahahahahah! Electricity costs are going through the roof thanks to Britain still being dependent on gas, big time, and wind making this worse. See the earlier thread on this forum. I read one remark, probably over the top, that 70 per cent of UK restaurants might have to close due to high power bills. notsonice I think I'm going to give up reading any of your comments after this.. Britain is NOT dependent on imported gas, however I'm glad you say NG made the costs go up as that is exactly what happened. Your comment that wind made the price go up couldnt be more wrong! Its thanks to renewables that the costs werent higher in 2022 when Europe suffered because of the Ukraine conflict. The below is a snap shot of exactly the cost when I posted this and as you can see renewables are at 50% and the price is -£185.33/MWh (yes MINUS £185.33/MWh) National Grid: Live The National Grid is the electric power transmission network for Great Britain Time 3:40pm Price −£185.33/MWh Emissions 99g/kWh Demand 31.1GW Generation 27.5GW Transfers 3.6GW Generation Generation 27.5GW 88.5% Note: percentages are relative to demand, so will exceed 100% if power is being exported 19.5% fossil fuels Coal 0.00 0.0 Gas 6.05 19.5 50.0% renewables Solar 6.20 20.0 Wind 9.18 29.6 Hydroelectric 0.14 0.5 19.0% other sources Nuclear 4.44 14.3 Biomass 1.47 4.7 11.5% interconnectors Belgium 1.00 3.2 France 1.14 3.7 Ireland −0.98 −3.2 Netherlands 1.00 3.2 Norway 1.40 4.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 17, 2023 (edited) On 7/3/2023 at 5:13 AM, Jay McKinsey said: You haven't made any arguments to counter. You have just posted endless threads that we all laugh at. That's because he cant Jay! He does this time and time again which I have taken him to task about on previous threads. Edited July 17, 2023 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 17, 2023 https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/hornsea-four-offshore-wind-farm-given-the-go-ahead-by-government/ar-AA1dLYBf Hornsea 3 2.8GW has now got all the funding and contracts are being issued Hornsea 4 2.6GW has now got the go ahead from the government Theres 5.4GW to start with, I could go on and on but I'm sure this tells the story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 July 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/hornsea-four-offshore-wind-farm-given-the-go-ahead-by-government/ar-AA1dLYBf Hornsea 3 2.8GW has now got all the funding and contracts are being issued Hornsea 4 2.6GW has now got the go ahead from the government Theres 5.4GW to start with, I could go on and on but I'm sure this tells the story And ALL funded by government FIAT subsidy; none have to ascribe to economics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 18, 2023 13 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: And ALL funded by government FIAT subsidy; none have to ascribe to economics. Most large scale infrastructure projects have an element of government funding, Hinkley point C for example does which is new nuclear, Sizewell C will be government funded along with EDF energy. Only big oil can really fund multi billion dollar projects on their own but even then they choose to mitigate risk by having other partners which is a sensible approach. Its in the national interest to be have energy security so why wouldnt a government finance such projects? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonathb + 10 JB July 18, 2023 Just for the record, wind energy costs are not rising. Digressing somewhat, I see that BSer Mr. Mills is being quoted here on OP today. As ever his data is flawed and the conclusions based upon them are nonsense. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 18, 2023 On 7/5/2023 at 6:08 PM, Jay McKinsey said: Oh no, another thread threat. Mark you are making an open fool of yourself. Such a extroidnary comment, western European civilization is on the brink of financial collapse and yet you persist in your climate dogma. There is a darkness in you that is unprecedented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 18, 2023 9 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Most large scale infrastructure projects have an element of government funding, Hinkley point C for example does which is new nuclear, Sizewell C will be government funded along with EDF energy. Only big oil can really fund multi billion dollar projects on their own but even then they choose to mitigate risk by having other partners which is a sensible approach. Its in the national interest to be have energy security so why wouldnt a government finance such projects? Now that is a interesting commentary, how many different govt leaders have you had in the past 5 yrs. Asking for a Friend of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 18, 2023 5 hours ago, jonathb said: Just for the record, wind energy costs are not rising. Digressing somewhat, I see that BSer Mr. Mills is being quoted here on OP today. As ever his data is flawed and the conclusions based upon them are nonsense. You might visit Germany's economic outlook forecast, they seem to be having some issue's. Your enlightened thought processes may well shed some light on such matters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 18, 2023 (edited) On 7/17/2023 at 7:49 AM, Rob Plant said: Britain is NOT dependent on imported gas, however I'm glad you say NG made the costs go up as that is exactly what happened. Your comment that wind made the price go up couldnt be more wrong! Its thanks to renewables that the costs werent higher in 2022 when Europe suffered because of the Ukraine conflict. The below is a snap shot of exactly the cost when I posted this and as you can see renewables are at 50% and the price is -£185.33/MWh (yes MINUS £185.33/MWh) National Grid: Live The National Grid is the electric power transmission network for Great Britain Time 3:40pm Price −£185.33/MWh Emissions 99g/kWh Demand 31.1GW Generation 27.5GW Transfers 3.6GW Generation Generation 27.5GW 88.5% Note: percentages are relative to demand, so will exceed 100% if power is being exported 19.5% fossil fuels Coal 0.00 0.0 Gas 6.05 19.5 50.0% renewables Solar 6.20 20.0 Wind 9.18 29.6 Hydroelectric 0.14 0.5 19.0% other sources Nuclear 4.44 14.3 Biomass 1.47 4.7 11.5% interconnectors Belgium 1.00 3.2 France 1.14 3.7 Ireland −0.98 −3.2 Netherlands 1.00 3.2 Norway 1.40 4.5 What ever Britian is doing it needs to come to end. For the love of god man your about to run out of beer! Imagine that climate change! The hangover: Energy crisis has left Britain’s pubs feeling hammered Britain’s pubs were reeling before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine pushed energy costs up. Now, like many U.K. businesses and households, they are really being squeezed. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-hangover-energy-crisis-has-left-britains-pubs-feeling-hammered-8f17f6c3 Edited July 18, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM July 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Such a extroidnary comment, western European civilization is on the brink of financial collapse and yet you persist in your climate dogma. There is a darkness in you that is unprecedented. western European civilization is on the brink of financial collapse?????? if this was true the Euro would have collapsed it has not nor is it It is record breaking temperatures across the globe right now...... climate dogma????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM July 18, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: What ever Britian is doing it needs to come to end. For the love of god man your about to run out of beer! Imagine that climate change! The hangover: Energy crisis has left Britain’s pubs feeling hammered Britain’s pubs were reeling before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine pushed energy costs up. Now, like many U.K. businesses and households, they are really being squeezed. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-hangover-energy-crisis-has-left-britains-pubs-feeling-hammered-8f17f6c3 For the love of god man your about to run out of beer! ????? only drunks worry about running out of beer........ Edited July 18, 2023 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,543 July 18, 2023 On 7/17/2023 at 12:16 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said: And ALL funded by government FIAT subsidy; none have to ascribe to economics. And the cost of insurance for USA nucs is low, because??? 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, turbguy said: And the cost of insurance for USA nucs is low, because??? Well you might confer with Finland on the topic, looks like there in tall cotton right now. Finland’s New Nuclear Plant Brings Down Electricity Prices by Over 75 Percent https://www.world-energy.org/article/32503.html#:~:text=(MENAFN) The start of Europe's,of the country's power demand. Edited July 19, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 19, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, notsonice said: if this was true the Euro would have collapsed it has not nor is it The gifts of Green Energy... Euro Falls to Equal the U.S. Dollar for the First Time in 20 Years In recent months, pressure on the euro has been mounting while investors have been flocking to the U.S. dollar, a haven in times of economic upheaval. Give this article https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/business/euro-dollar-parity.html Edited July 19, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,057 ML July 19, 2023 On 7/18/2023 at 12:49 AM, Rob Plant said: The below is a snap shot of exactly the cost when I posted this and as you can see renewables are at 50% and the price is -£185.33/MWh (yes MINUS £185.33/MWh) National Grid: Live The National Grid is the electric power transmission network for Great Britain Time 3:40pm Price −£185.33/MWh Emissions 99g/kWh Demand 31.1GW Generation 27.5GW Transfers 3.6GW Rob - sorry but this is delusional. It betrays a basic, total misunderstanding of how the system works. First off quoting a half hour price mid-afternoon on a summer's day doesn't mean anything. Wind power has been known to collapse spot price pools, no problem. The various contributions from gas and nuclear and so on are probably there to stabilise the system. The spot price is now only part of the cost. The real trick is to look at average wholesale prices plus capacity payments, plus balancing costs which now include huge subsidies to wind farms. Click on the question mark on the price and you'll see a comment on the UK contracts for difference system. No one now questions the fact that offshore wind in particular is not cutting costs, in fact it is doing the opposite. Leave it with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 19, 2023 14 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Now that is a interesting commentary, how many different govt leaders have you had in the past 5 yrs. Asking for a Friend of course. Whats that got to do with the point? The UK have had several fools in charge in the last 5 years, however that does not mean the point isnt correct! You can tell your friend that from me! No charge! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 19, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: What ever Britian is doing it needs to come to end. For the love of god man your about to run out of beer! Imagine that climate change! The hangover: Energy crisis has left Britain’s pubs feeling hammered Britain’s pubs were reeling before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine pushed energy costs up. Now, like many U.K. businesses and households, they are really being squeezed. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-hangover-energy-crisis-has-left-britains-pubs-feeling-hammered-8f17f6c3 Wow EWO you sure are good at posting out of date articles! Run out of beer Bwahahaha, clearly youve never been to the UK, no pubs ran out of beer. Some pubs have gone bust due to the exhorbitant NG prices and couldnt afford to heat their premises also they borrowed a lot of cash in order to survive through the pandemic. Just shows how important it is to NOT to rely on FF and how important a diverse energy mix with cheaper renewables is doesnt it? Thanks for posting and agreeing with me at last. Edited July 19, 2023 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 19, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, markslawson said: Rob - sorry but this is delusional. It betrays a basic, total misunderstanding of how the system works. First off quoting a half hour price mid-afternoon on a summer's day doesn't mean anything. Wind power has been known to collapse spot price pools, no problem. The various contributions from gas and nuclear and so on are probably there to stabilise the system. The spot price is now only part of the cost. The real trick is to look at average wholesale prices plus capacity payments, plus balancing costs which now include huge subsidies to wind farms. Click on the question mark on the price and you'll see a comment on the UK contracts for difference system. No one now questions the fact that offshore wind in particular is not cutting costs, in fact it is doing the opposite. Leave it with you. No Mark renewables are cheaper, this has already been covered when Notsonice posted the LCOE which you dont agree with. Thats your perogative to disagree with it but those are the facts. Whenever renewables are the predominant source of powergen being used in the energy mix in the UK the cost per KWh drops, you can witness this using live data in the link I supplied. You dont like renewables, I get it. You dont believe that there are alternatives to FF, I get it. You dont believe there are tech breakthroughs, I get it. You dont believe that new industries will strive for cost downs and become cheaper through mass production, competition and improvements in efficiencies, I get it. We wont agree on this point so theres no point discussing it further. Got any new topics and articles we can put you straight on? Edited July 19, 2023 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,543 July 19, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Well you might confer with Finland on the topic, looks like there in tall cotton right now. Finland’s New Nuclear Plant Brings Down Electricity Prices by Over 75 Percent https://www.world-energy.org/article/32503.html#:~:text=(MENAFN) The start of Europe's,of the country's power demand. Just how does that plant liquidate if it must sell it's output into the market at negative prices? A subsidy, perhaps? https://www.businessinsider.com/finland-electricity-prices-flip-negative-after-glut-of-hydroelectric-power-2023-5?op=1 Edited July 19, 2023 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 19, 2023 1 hour ago, turbguy said: Just how does that plant liquidate if it must sell it's output into the market at negative prices? A subsidy, perhaps? https://www.businessinsider.com/finland-electricity-prices-flip-negative-after-glut-of-hydroelectric-power-2023-5?op=1 Turbguy I do believe I suggested confer with Finland on such matters. They more than probably would be quite helpful. Arrogance of though process does not seem to be clouding there judgement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 July 19, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Run out of beer Bwahahaha, clearly youve never been to the UK, no pubs ran out of beer. I do believe Pubs are the center of concern...no pubs well you decide. But then again simply raising prices seems the quick solution does it not? Beer inflation now that's just wrong. Next thing you know Bud Light may well be mainstream in Britain, I understand they are having a fire sale. Forgive that might be a tad sharp angled...I just couldn't help myself...Green inflation is bit much.. Edited July 19, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM July 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: I do believe Pubs are the center of concern...no pubs well you decide. But then again simply raising prices seems the quick solution does it not? Beer inflation now that's just wrong. Next thing you know Bud Light may well be mainstream in Britain, I understand they are having a fire sale. Forgive that might be a tad sharp angled...I just couldn't help myself...Green inflation is bit much.. Beer inflation now that's just wrong????? drunks never like paying for their beer.........and they are always upset when the price goes up...Price of Nat Gas went through the roof, the pubs needed to heat their space and you want to drink without paying for it? must suck to be a drunk these days Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,543 July 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Turbguy I do believe I suggested confer with Finland on such matters. They more than probably would be quite helpful. Arrogance of though process does not seem to be clouding there judgement. I would find it challenging to "confer" with an entire sovereign country. I would suspect I would receive an array of opinions, no? How do you suggest I go about that process? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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