markslawson + 1,058 ML January 15 A lot of material has come out since I past posted on electric vehicles last year when a host of car dealers wrote to President Biden asking for him to pause a government attempt to mandate such cars, all of it confirming that there is no immediate threat to the oil market from the rise of EVs. In that letter the dealers declared that EVs had their place but more time was needed for consumers to get use to the idea and in the meantime EVs were piling up on their lots. EV apologists at the time tried to brush this aside by claiming that the letter was signed "only" by 20 per cent or so of the total number of registered dealers or whatever (I didn't treat this with the contempt it deserved at the time but now I will say this Bwwwwwhahahahahah!) Anyway, here is video listing the various reasons that the growth of the EV market is slowing markedly. Here is another pointing to the problem of Ford dealers being unwilling to get into selling EVs in the first place. A major obstacle is the big upfront cost required to build charging stations on the lot and train staff in the cars. This also mentions the rather grim statistic that Ford is losing an estimated $US36,000 on each EV it sells. As the US Congress has now voted to block government efforts through the EPA to mandate EVs, the EV market will have to face the grim fact that consumers still, by and large, prefer gas/petrol cars and car makers are having real problems achieving the volumes that will help them reduce prices. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meredith Poor + 897 MP January 15 An interesting question arises when a full-blown car costs $50,000 when an eBike costs $1500 (give or take). When I look up electric skateboards I see prices ranging from $400 to $1600. These represent massive reductions in living costs, even if they only cover '90%' of transportation needs. I see high school and college age kids on these things daily. I see elderly people on electric scooters going between their houses and the grocery store all the time, meaning several times a week. The $50,000 car is basically the kid hauler and the 'off to visit the grandkids in Orlando'. The former needs a car day to day, the latter could just as easily rent a car for a five day trip every few months. Electric vehicles are a lot easier to scale to 'just right', since they don't have a fuel tank, don't require oil, can recharge on the household plug, etc. Skateboards can be carried onto buses and trolleys. The 'bottom end of the market' is abandoning traditional cars as alternatives become more and more attractive. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192 January 15 Uh news flash: If it is not universal, and afforadable to EVERYONE it will not work as Majority makes a product proffitable, not the minority. An electric bike/skateboard everyone can afford and you can bop down to grocery store, and every kid needs SOME mobility freedom to go ~2 -->5 miles from home without having to walk quickly so electric bikes or just a normal bike works fine here. But a thing called RAIN, cold etc and everyone wants a car... but you can only afford 1 car and majority of people can only afford a USED car, not a new car and it must do EVERYTHING for them. Not rent or lease as that is the way to POVERTY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE January 15 (edited) 27 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Uh news flash: If it is not universal, and afforadable to EVERYONE it will not work as Majority makes a product proffitable, not the minority. An electric bike/skateboard everyone can afford and you can bop down to grocery store, and every kid needs SOME mobility freedom to go ~2 -->5 miles from home without having to walk quickly so electric bikes or just a normal bike works fine here. But a thing called RAIN, cold etc and everyone wants a car... but you can only afford 1 car and majority of people can only afford a USED car, not a new car and it must do EVERYTHING for them. Not rent or lease as that is the way to POVERTY News flash: No product is affordable to everyone. The truly poor don't even think about buying cars, they are looking for things like food and shelter. Look around, homelessness and hunger is everywhere, and yes they live outside even when it is cold and rainy. https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/ "The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) counted around 582,000 Americans experiencing homelessness in 2022." Edited January 15 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL September 13 On 1/15/2024 at 2:00 PM, TailingsPond said: News flash: No product is affordable to everyone. The truly poor don't even think about buying cars, they are looking for things like food and shelter. Look around, homelessness and hunger is everywhere, and yes they live outside even when it is cold and rainy. https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/ "The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) counted around 582,000 Americans experiencing homelessness in 2022." Guess what, even poor people can afford a second-hand fossil fuel car (not an EV, to be sure). Some of them cost only a few hundred dollars. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM September 13 (edited) even poor people can afford a second-hand fossil fuel car???????? nope even used vehicles have costs.....annual registration fees is one that is a hurdle for many homeless people. A unregistered vehicle does not last forever on the streets.....if they are not able to move/broken down.........ticket ticket ticket....then a boot....then off to an impound lot many cities do give those who are homeless a break and do not tow away their clunkers or beat up RVs if they do run...if they do not ....off to impound homeless has different levels of poverty......... some homeless people have more than others...... the last use of large clunkers and old RVs ..........they do not burn much gas........most only move a few miles a year Living in an old RV or van is much better than living under a bridge Leaving work today I passed by a sweep.......Police were forcing a few homeless ...RVers in an encampment to move on ...these encampments last for a week and then they are on the move........many struggle keeping the old clunkers running Is there a charity that keeps clunkers running for the homeless.......I actually think this would be a good thing for local governments to help the homeless to keep their old clunker homes/old RVs running. A metal clunker roof is better than no roof....... now has anyone seen an EV being used for housing?????? Edited September 13 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL September 13 (edited) 11 hours ago, notsonice said: even poor people can afford a second-hand fossil fuel car???????? nope even used vehicles have costs.....annual registration fees is one that is a hurdle for many homeless people. A unregistered vehicle does not last forever on the streets.....if they are not able to move/broken down.........ticket ticket ticket....then a boot....then off to an impound lot many cities do give those who are homeless a break and do not tow away their clunkers or beat up RVs if they do run...if they do not ....off to impound homeless has different levels of poverty......... some homeless people have more than others...... the last use of large clunkers and old RVs ..........they do not burn much gas........most only move a few miles a year Living in an old RV or van is much better than living under a bridge Leaving work today I passed by a sweep.......Police were forcing a few homeless ...RVers in an encampment to move on ...these encampments last for a week and then they are on the move........many struggle keeping the old clunkers running Is there a charity that keeps clunkers running for the homeless.......I actually think this would be a good thing for local governments to help the homeless to keep their old clunker homes/old RVs running. A metal clunker roof is better than no roof....... now has anyone seen an EV being used for housing?????? Nevertheless, you seem to acknowledge my point. Poor people can afford a few hundred dollars to purchase and register a used fossil fuel clunker. That is the key factor. No such fate awaits second-hand EVs. The poor must become even poorer to accommodate the fantasies of wild-eyed protesters. Edited September 13 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM September 14 10 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Nevertheless, you seem to acknowledge my point. Poor people can afford a few hundred dollars to purchase and register a used fossil fuel clunker. That is the key factor. No such fate awaits second-hand EVs. The poor must become even poorer to accommodate the fantasies of wild-eyed protesters. Poor people can afford a few hundred dollars to purchase and register a used fossil fuel clunker?????? nope most poor people (ie Homeless people) cannot afford new cars of any type let alone beaters or clunkers.......clunkers do not last forever...and they do not magically repair themselves nor do the tanks get filled up with a few pennies. . For many poor people cars of any type are out of reach....... if it was true that the poor could afford clunkers you would not see homeless people camping out everywhere, living on the streets or under bridges. some day their will be EV/Phev cars on their last legs......sold for a few hundred dollars.....scrap value....same as your clunkers today which some homeless people will buy and use them to camp in them, no different than your clunker world today. You will see EV encampments in front of free charging stations. or have a few solar panels built in the cars.......a couple of miles a day from the sun.....oh the transition will occur even for the poor......some will have old tired EVs most will have nothing Unless you think EVs will retain their value forever????? They never die???? No such fate awaits second-hand EVs??????? ...now the question are there any gas stations that give away gas for free in your dreamy clunker world????.....I still see guys standing on the corner...begging for change (or bucks these days) to buy gas........ gone will be the days when you tank is siphoned off overnight....or do you think poor people will hot wire EVs to steal electrons????? Poor people can afford a few hundred dollars to purchase and register a used fossil fuel clunker....??????? you are not dealing with reality All cars are not cheap to own, run, insure, maintain including your ICE clunkers or EVs 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 710 September 15 On 9/12/2024 at 8:16 PM, Ecocharger said: Guess what, even poor people can afford a second-hand fossil fuel car (not an EV, to be sure). Some of them cost only a few hundred dollars. People who want to work may have public transportation, a bike, an e-bike, or ride share etc. Unfortunately most people need a car because of timing, and lack of public transport. I get 43 mpg around town in my 3 cylinder Mitsubishi and we also use a minivan and a large 12 seater. All are paid for and have average mileage of about 50,000. I would like to see cheaper vehicles for the average poor person, not the homeless, few able bodied and people of normal intelligence can eventually afford a car of some kind. Fortunately several car and small trucks are supposed to come out that have very low prices. Waiting and watching. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 710 September 15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS72KD5thcE Tesla truck burns, closing highway for 16 hours. Elon Musk SHOCKED About The Reason Tesla Semi Fire! Shuts Down Highway 16 hours ! What's Happened? TESLA CAR WORLD 167K subscribers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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