Plastic Myth-Busters

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

A possibly outrageous overview of plastics from Wood Mac. They are not all bad! The very thought would stun many but, well, facts.

[DA? + 301]

1,2 & 4 are obvious to everyone.

3. Comparing packing food in a one use plastic and then glass to make a point is misleading, often other materials are better.

5. Yes Europe doesn't export off much of it's waste plastic because China told them to stuff it.

6. I agree with this point cloths waste is horrendous, but one evil does not make another evil ok. My mother inlaw runs an organisation that includes second hand clothing, it's amazing what people throw away. Good for me as I get all sorts of cloths for dam all.

There are many ways we can cut down plastic waste, stopping double or even triple wrapping of items for a start. Plastic alternatives are often available especially for that one use then bin type and are been rapidly developed. Some of these products that are being developed not being petroleum based are far easier to make biodegradable, one I saw the other day made from waste from the shell fish industry is even edible.

The real problem with plastics is they get in to the environment and course massive problems.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

2 hours ago, DA? said:

The real problem with plastics is they get in to the environment and course massive problems.

Only if not collected and recycled. Recycling system can be put into place. 

 

[DA? + 301]

1 hour ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Only if not collected and recycled. Recycling system can be put into place. 

 

Theres a recycling system here but still lots of plastic littering the place. We don't do the beech much but when we do my wife spends most of her time picking up plastic.

[NickW + 2,714]

5 hours ago, DA? said:

1,2 & 4 are obvious to everyone.

3. Comparing packing food in a one use plastic and then glass to make a point is misleading, often other materials are better.

5. Yes Europe doesn't export off much of it's waste plastic because China told them to stuff it.

6. I agree with this point cloths waste is horrendous, but one evil does not make another evil ok. My mother inlaw runs an organisation that includes second hand clothing, it's amazing what people throw away. Good for me as I get all sorts of cloths for dam all.

There are many ways we can cut down plastic waste, stopping double or even triple wrapping of items for a start. Plastic alternatives are often available especially for that one use then bin type and are been rapidly developed. Some of these products that are being developed not being petroleum based are far easier to make biodegradable, one I saw the other day made from waste from the shell fish industry is even edible.

The real problem with plastics is they get in to the environment and course massive problems.

Agreed. I get half my clothes from charity shops these days. Decent winter coat - £12, 3 unworn work shirts for £10

[John Sczesny + 2]

I worked in plastics packaging for food several years. It reduced spoilage of vegetables, meats and the like. It is helping 3rd world countries reduce the cost of food due to less spoilage. This is mostly flexible packaging.  I would like to hear of the alternatives that are affordable to these developing economies. To my knowledge  there is not a less expensive life cycle for food packaging at present.  Developing a biodegradable flexible package where it actually cannot hold together after X months may be a solution. 

[Black Blade + 16]

Just drive around Midland (or most anywhere in the Permian) and you will see plastic bags all over the place (roads, highways, vacant lots, etc.). Never seen a place so littered with plastic bags. Apparently clean up is problematic as using jailbirds for highway clean up crews is a liability issue with rattlesnakes and various other poisonous wildlife (so I am told). 

[NickW + 2,714]

3 hours ago, Black Blade said:

Just drive around Midland (or most anywhere in the Permian) and you will see plastic bags all over the place (roads, highways, vacant lots, etc.). Never seen a place so littered with plastic bags. Apparently clean up is problematic as using jailbirds for highway clean up crews is a liability issue with rattlesnakes and various other poisonous wildlife (so I am told). 

Thats more an issue with 4rseholes who should know better than plastics themselves

[NickW + 2,714]

4 hours ago, John Sczesny said:

I worked in plastics packaging for food several years. It reduced spoilage of vegetables, meats and the like. It is helping 3rd world countries reduce the cost of food due to less spoilage. This is mostly flexible packaging.  I would like to hear of the alternatives that are affordable to these developing economies. To my knowledge  there is not a less expensive life cycle for food packaging at present.  Developing a biodegradable flexible package where it actually cannot hold together after X months may be a solution. 

Personally I believe a more pragmatic approach to waste to energy is needed to deal with non recyclable plastics. The gasification systems available are modular and quite small so it would be relatively easy for council (other waste collectors) to install units either individually or as collectives. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Molecular binding compounds have been developed that allow incompatible plastics to be re-extruded together to form new resin. That material can in turn be extruded into solid compounds, chief among which is plastic lumber, which is great stuff for marine uses such as pier walkway planking and outdoor decking, such as boardwalks and home outdoor decks.  The decking material uses up large volumes of material, is quite sturdy, and unaffected by salt water, boring worms, and splintering.  

The issue of sealing foodstuffs is a function of slowing down the rate of reproduction of bacteria present in the food.  If the foodstuffs are irradiated, by placing in a radiation chamber for a brief time, then the bacteria are killed off and the material will last without refrigeration, until it is re-infected with fresh bacteria.   For example, irradiating milk allows it to be stored for over 90 days without refrigeration.  Meats can have a shelf life of a year.  The refusal to irradiate foods is irrational; like so much in society, it is the anxiety-driven mental cases that scream about any new technological development that paralyze rational technical development.  I despair that society will ever do better. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[DA? + 301]

9 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

it is the anxiety-driven mental cases that scream about any new technological development that paralyze rational technical development

Yup just like with renewable energy.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

30 minutes ago, DA? said:

Yup just like with renewable energy.

You are hi-jacking the thread. This is a discussion about pros and cons of plastics, not "renewable" energy, Let's stay on topic.

[DA? + 301]

21 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

You are hi-jacking the thread. This is a discussion about pros and cons of plastics, not "renewable" energy, Let's stay on topic.

Things evolve I was just going on the tangent of people being paranoid about radiation that you brought up. 

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

There are many innovative plastic alternatives being developed for packaging :

- Plant-based plastics

- Mushroom root

- Bagasse

- Seaweed water bubbles

- Shower-friendly paper

- Stone paper and plastic

- Palm leaves

- Corn starch and sorghum loose fill

- Edible six-pack ring

- Silberboard – metallised paper

- Wood pulp cellophane

- Prawn shell plastic bags

- Milk plastic

 

For more details check this link : https://www.innovationexcellence.com/blog/2018/07/02/13-plastic-packaging-alternatives/

 

[Donald Meek + 1]

i think we need to seperate our concerns in to single use plastic and construction plastics

we should consider banning single use oil based plasitcs in favor of plant based plastics that degrade normally

we could keep our construction plastics such as used in aplliances etc

 

[NickW + 2,714]

8 hours ago, DA? said:

Things evolve I was just going on the tangent of people being paranoid about radiation that you brought up. 

Good job Jan never hijacks a thread and takes it off topic. 

Page 2 😄

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by NickW

[NickW + 2,714]

19 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Molecular binding compounds have been developed that allow incompatible plastics to be re-extruded together to form new resin. That material can in turn be extruded into solid compounds, chief among which is plastic lumber, which is great stuff for marine uses such as pier walkway planking and outdoor decking, such as boardwalks and home outdoor decks.  The decking material uses up large volumes of material, is quite sturdy, and unaffected by salt water, boring worms, and splintering.  

The issue of sealing foodstuffs is a function of slowing down the rate of reproduction of bacteria present in the food.  If the foodstuffs are irradiated, by placing in a radiation chamber for a brief time, then the bacteria are killed off and the material will last without refrigeration, until it is re-infected with fresh bacteria.   For example, irradiating milk allows it to be stored for over 90 days without refrigeration.  Meats can have a shelf life of a year.  The refusal to irradiate foods is irrational; like so much in society, it is the anxiety-driven mental cases that scream about any new technological development that paralyze rational technical development.  I despair that society will ever do better. 

While I agree that the fears are often irrational Irradiation does change the nature of many foods as the energy involved, especially if the manufacturer wants to achieve commercial sterility effectively cooks the food. You will also get a certain loss of some vitamins. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

14 minutes ago, NickW said:

Good job Jan never hijacks a thread and takes it off topic. 

Page 2 😄

 

You overlook that I have been roundly chastised and dramatically reproved by the Angry Moderator.  That is assuredly enough to remain fully chastised, and so chastened,  remain meekly in the shadows. Cheers.

[NickW + 2,714]

11 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

You overlook that I have been roundly chastised and dramatically reproved by the Angry Moderator.  That is assuredly enough to remain fully chastised, and so chastened,  remain meekly in the shadows. Cheers.

Fair play - at least you acknowledge it!

Have a thumbs up and virtual pint on me. 🍺😉

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 11/14/2018 at 11:59 AM, John Sczesny said:

I worked in plastics packaging for food several years. It reduced spoilage of vegetables, meats and the like. It is helping 3rd world countries reduce the cost of food due to less spoilage. This is mostly flexible packaging.  I would like to hear of the alternatives that are affordable to these developing economies. To my knowledge  there is not a less expensive life cycle for food packaging at present.  Developing a biodegradable flexible package where it actually cannot hold together after X months may be a solution. 

I was under the impression that a plastic sealing film can be manufactured using corn starch as the base material.  It then disintegrates in a few months, and quite rapidly if exposed to UV light  (sunlight).  Can you shed any light on this as a film packaging material?  Or does price/cost keep it off the market? 

[Moise + 3]

recycling plastics and not littering requires a certain degree of civility/civilization which unfortunatley is lacking in todays world. we should offer courses in schools and Universities and call it "How to be be civil."

[Jovito Catungal + 6]

Plastic material has gained a negative image due to mishandling by users particularly the one use applications. Unlike glass which  users know that when deposed indiscrimately it will  cause injury.

Plastic on the other hand can be disposed indiscrimanately becuse there are no immediate injury to the users. There are many countries though who handle waste effectively but still many are still unconcern...then complain furiously when they  are affected by waste...unfairly directed to the producers. 

LIfe will be inconvenienced severely if we ban plastics. We should accept it as part of lifestyle with attached responsibility. Control and regulations can be formulated by producers and authorities while irresponsible users must be penalized appropriately.

[Nadeem Naseem + 5]

Plastics are lighter than many other packaging materials. Consequently use of plastics reduces transportation costs as well as the emissions from transport vehicles. 

[John Foote + 1,135]

Plastics are great in many ways. And in many cases have a superior cost for the user and consumer.

The downside of course is the pollution cost is not a burden to the user or consumer. And that costs is very hard to calculate and will be subjective to some degree. I like capitalism, embrace but by it's nature it is completely unconcerned with systemic costs, just the individual return. Hence, it does need some level of regulation. Not suggesting we outlaw plastics, but was it really so bad when we used reusable glass for sodas. 

And plastic trash is everywhere. I've been in the middle of the Ruba al Khalli, gone a day without seeing so much as a single bird or even a camel turd, and yet the ubiquitous plastic bag is seen, often sadly referred to as the national flower of Saudi, but that is hardly exclusive to them.  

[RLC Group Ltd + 2]

The question remains if we delete plastic is there a solution

water bottles we can have less if we made it so the smallest was 1 liter

candy wrappers is biggest issue as people don’t like junk in there pockets

but worst plastic is micro plastic now used in cosmetics