turbguy + 1,556 October 19 Well, Cuba blacks out completely, twice. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/cuba-power-outage-rcna176227 It ain't easy to restart a fully dead grid. Lots of instability can occur unless the system is brought back up with really careful management. To loose power in a residential setting is bad. To loose power in essential services (police, hospitals, water treatment and supply) is really bad! To loose power in a power plant is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BAD (think equipment damage during coast down). Larger "thermoelectric" power plants need electricity to start, and need electricity to safely stop. The solution for Cuba could be for China to step up support. Hopefully the US recognizes that potential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 19 1 hour ago, turbguy said: Well, Cuba blacks out completely, twice. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/cuba-power-outage-rcna176227 It ain't easy to restart a fully dead grid. Lots of instability can occur unless the system is brought back up with really careful management. To loose power in a residential setting is bad. To loose power in essential services (police, hospitals, water treatment and supply) is really bad! To loose power in a power plant is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BAD (think equipment damage during coast down). Larger "thermoelectric" power plants need electricity to start, and need electricity to safely stop. The solution for Cuba could be for China to step up support. Hopefully the US recognizes that potential. could be for China to step up support???? good grief what are you thinking about....... China can move some manufacturing to Cuba.????????.....a little belt and road??????? Even the Chinese know that giving Cuba aid is like tossing good money into a hole..Cuba has nothing China wants......nothing .....not even a place to stage a navy or troops..........China values trade with the US more than the value of propaganda stunts as the Russians tried to pull with the Cuban Missile crisis or their recent visit this past summer. How can Cubans can earn monies from abroad so they can import the much needed infrastructure to rebuild their grid??????? good luck.....maybe they can adopt the North Korean Strategy and send troops to Russia to fight in Ukraine?????????? I hear Putin pays top dollars for Cannon fodder. Maybe China could let 10 Million Cubans move to China and let them live in the millions of empty apartments??????? Do you think the Chinese will open their homes ??? ha ha ha guess again........China is not in need of poor people........It has millions of 20 year olds who can not find work at minimum wage jobs The reality Cuba has been left to rot by their communist buds years ago........the only use Russia has left for Cuba is propaganda and the latest stunt failed miserable Recently Russia thought they were being so smart and sent some patched together Navy ships for an exercise.... to show how much power they have to the world.....it was a joke..... .Instead they should have sent their techs to keep the Cuban grid patched together........or maybe a tanker full of oil .......but the Cubans do not have any cash.....Oil is not free nor is LNG .... Russia and China are unwilling to put out billions in aid that is needed every year (forever ) to keep the Cuba economy and Communist party afloat...... at this point the Cuba Communist regime is on its last legs ....A week without power.......How long would you last without electricity and the knowledge you will most likely never have it again?????????????Let the Cubans who are in charge move to China in exile and let the Cubans finally get rid of the failed Communist State Machine.... What does Cuba have to offer ??????????????? the only thing is has is beachfront vacation property that is in demand.....It once was a vacation paradise...and a few plane loads of Chinese or Russians every week is not going to save Cuba from the dark ages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 20 (edited) 10 hours ago, notsonice said: could be for China to step up support???? good grief what are you thinking about....... China can move some manufacturing to Cuba.????????.....a little belt and road??????? Even the Chinese know that giving Cuba aid is like tossing good money into a hole..Cuba has nothing China wants......nothing .....not even a place to stage a navy or troops..........China values trade with the US more than the value of propaganda stunts as the Russians tried to pull with the Cuban Missile crisis or their recent visit this past summer. How can Cubans can earn monies from abroad so they can import the much needed infrastructure to rebuild their grid??????? good luck.....maybe they can adopt the North Korean Strategy and send troops to Russia to fight in Ukraine?????????? I hear Putin pays top dollars for Cannon fodder. Maybe China could let 10 Million Cubans move to China and let them live in the millions of empty apartments??????? Do you think the Chinese will open their homes ??? ha ha ha guess again........China is not in need of poor people........It has millions of 20 year olds who can not find work at minimum wage jobs The reality Cuba has been left to rot by their communist buds years ago........the only use Russia has left for Cuba is propaganda and the latest stunt failed miserable Recently Russia thought they were being so smart and sent some patched together Navy ships for an exercise.... to show how much power they have to the world.....it was a joke..... .Instead they should have sent their techs to keep the Cuban grid patched together........or maybe a tanker full of oil .......but the Cubans do not have any cash.....Oil is not free nor is LNG .... Russia and China are unwilling to put out billions in aid that is needed every year (forever ) to keep the Cuba economy and Communist party afloat...... at this point the Cuba Communist regime is on its last legs ....A week without power.......How long would you last without electricity and the knowledge you will most likely never have it again?????????????Let the Cubans who are in charge move to China in exile and let the Cubans finally get rid of the failed Communist State Machine.... What does Cuba have to offer ??????????????? the only thing is has is beachfront vacation property that is in demand.....It once was a vacation paradise...and a few plane loads of Chinese or Russians every week is not going to save Cuba from the dark ages Besides good quality of vodka, cigar, weed, ethanol from sugar cane, do you think Cuba might have oil and gas field that could bring in help needed? This map shows earth plates and the way it could be before drifted apart. - East south america and West of africa were joint - north west africa and south east united states were joint - south united states, central america and north of south america were joint If oil and gas fields can be found in Texas, Mexico, Venezuela, there is a great possibility Cuba has them too, yes? But what is hindering?? Cuba has Tropical climate. Solar panel sheets or new hybrid produced by China are very economic to install. China could have just donated those to houses in Cuba. But for densely populated city, they could probably built a) an enclosed water turbine. Water used would be in a closed loop cycle as shown before. It can be a form using gravitational force on turbine without the need of water pump, or using replenished weight from water using water pump. Since it is an enclosed system, it can be built anywhere appropriate, especially underground. b) solenoid- solar (+/- polar magnet) - transformer - not sure if this is workable on large scale but worth to test it out - solenoid will produce electricity, constantly, triggered by polar magnet. Mechanical force that does not rely on weather. - if solenoid combined with solar, it will move according to design e.g. left and right, up and down or in circular. Partly mechanical Dynamo is produced. Edited October 20 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 20 9 hours ago, specinho said: Besides good quality of vodka, cigar, weed, ethanol from sugar cane, do you think Cuba might have oil and gas field that could bring in help needed? This map shows earth plates and the way it could be before drifted apart. - East south america and West of africa were joint - north west africa and south east united states were joint - south united states, central america and north of south america were joint If oil and gas fields can be found in Texas, Mexico, Venezuela, there is a great possibility Cuba has them too, yes? But what is hindering?? Cuba has Tropical climate. Solar panel sheets or new hybrid produced by China are very economic to install. China could have just donated those to houses in Cuba. But for densely populated city, they could probably built a) an enclosed water turbine. Water used would be in a closed loop cycle as shown before. It can be a form using gravitational force on turbine without the need of water pump, or using replenished weight from water using water pump. Since it is an enclosed system, it can be built anywhere appropriate, especially underground. b) solenoid- solar (+/- polar magnet) - transformer - not sure if this is workable on large scale but worth to test it out - solenoid will produce electricity, constantly, triggered by polar magnet. Mechanical force that does not rely on weather. - if solenoid combined with solar, it will move according to design e.g. left and right, up and down or in circular. Partly mechanical Dynamo is produced. do you think Cuba might have oil and gas field that could bring in help needed?... Cuba does not have much in reserves...not enough to make it even close to energy independent or meet even meet emergency needs Solar panel sheets or new hybrid produced by China are very economic to install. China could have just donated those to houses in Cuba.???? and yet they do not...........Speaks volumes .... the Geographical distances from China to Cuba or Russia to Cuba are the reason that you do not see a huge push from China to be a true Communist partner............it is all about the costs of supporting Cuba Reality neither China or Russia have the desire to prop up Cuba on an indefinete basis (no free oil forever) and the only way the Cuban economy can succeed is with mainly a tourist based economy to earn the dollars needed to import oil or solar panels or modern electronics or modern anything as needed (sugar revenue is nothing as the world price of sugar does not earn the export monies that Cuba would need to be a Sugar Momma.... the only way the Cuban economy can succeed is with mainly a tourist based economy .......... As a tourist country the only country that could send tourists on a massive scale to Cuba to make Cuba a successful Tourist based economy is the United States.......We are talking 10 million US visits a year from the US.... And who wants to visit a tropical paradise that has no electricity much of the time and to hang out in a collapsed country ????? Failed communist (and failed socialist) counties in North or South America do not make great tourist hangouts for Gringos IE Venezeula , Bolivia, and Cuba There are so many great tourist destinations off of Florida that Americans have a choice of.........(this is also why Haiti is not a tourist destination) Geography sucks for Cuba............ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 21 (edited) 11 hours ago, notsonice said: do you think Cuba might have oil and gas field that could bring in help needed?... Cuba does not have much in reserves...not enough to make it even close to energy independent or meet even meet emergency needs Solar panel sheets or new hybrid produced by China are very economic to install. China could have just donated those to houses in Cuba.???? and yet they do not...........Speaks volumes .... the Geographical distances from China to Cuba or Russia to Cuba are the reason that you do not see a huge push from China to be a true Communist partner............it is all about the costs of supporting Cuba Reality neither China or Russia have the desire to prop up Cuba on an indefinete basis (no free oil forever) and the only way the Cuban economy can succeed is with mainly a tourist based economy to earn the dollars needed to import oil or solar panels or modern electronics or modern anything as needed (sugar revenue is nothing as the world price of sugar does not earn the export monies that Cuba would need to be a Sugar Momma.... the only way the Cuban economy can succeed is with mainly a tourist based economy .......... As a tourist country the only country that could send tourists on a massive scale to Cuba to make Cuba a successful Tourist based economy is the United States.......We are talking 10 million US visits a year from the US.... And who wants to visit a tropical paradise that has no electricity much of the time and to hang out in a collapsed country ????? Failed communist (and failed socialist) counties in North or South America do not make great tourist hangouts for Gringos IE Venezeula , Bolivia, and Cuba There are so many great tourist destinations off of Florida that Americans have a choice of.........(this is also why Haiti is not a tourist destination) Geography sucks for Cuba............ I do not really know how to read this map below, but have a feeling, they are probably looking at the wrong side for oil reserve. At the moment, the extraction of oil is on the North of Cuba. Looking at the red and yellow highlight, and the fact that Venezuela has the largest oil reserve in the world, this side ( side facing Venezuela) of Cuba should be where they explore for undiscovered oil, yes? 'o' '-' Cuba income stream shouldn't be just from Tourism. Imagine Cuba has a) fertile land for cultivating rice, wheat, corn, potato or basic essential food required, instead of importing them. b) area suitable for poultry and cattle farming. They can get egg, chicken meat, milk, cheese, beef, etc instead of importing them. c) weed - the above activities provide a way to wash the money earned from weed clean, provide jobs, do something right with the money. d) excellent personnel in medical field and research - grant them the basic and allow them to grow like when empowering F.Castro. - For assets that are confiscated, you can exchange those with seeds, chicken, cattle, technique they need and some basic capital. You might no longer need land on the existing site. Let them have it? Who knows, it would be healthcare professional from Cuba who will save you and give you a graceful old age? You can also lease the land, build a joint venture company with the government, lease to own machinery paid by the government, supply everything else they need to get started. If your money is contributed largely to UN, World Bank, politicians etc with unknown usages on unknown faces, why can't you spare cubans, a known condition, from not having the basic essential, with the same money?? If wasting money, wasting time is your habit, try waste it on Cuba ...... Edited October 21 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP October 21 2 hours ago, specinho said: I do not really know how to read this map below, but have a feeling, they are probably looking at the wrong side for oil reserve. At the moment, the extraction of oil is on the North of Cuba. Looking at the red and yellow highlight, and the fact that Venezuela has the largest oil reserve in the world, this side ( side facing Venezuela) of Cuba should be where they explore for undiscovered oil, yes? 'o' '-' Cuba income stream shouldn't be just from Tourism. Imagine Cuba has a) fertile land for cultivating rice, wheat, corn, potato or basic essential food required, instead of importing them. b) area suitable for poultry and cattle farming. They can get egg, chicken meat, milk, cheese, beef, etc instead of importing them. c) weed - the above activities provide a way to wash the money earned from weed clean, provide jobs, do something right with the money. d) excellent personnel in medical field and research - grant them the basic and allow them to grow like when empowering F.Castro. - For assets that are confiscated, you can exchange those with seeds, chicken, cattle, technique they need and some basic capital. You might no longer need land on the existing site. Let them have it? Who knows, it would be healthcare professional from Cuba who will save you and give you a graceful old age? You can also lease the land, build a joint venture company with the government, lease to own machinery paid by the government, supply everything else they need to get started. If your money is contributed largely to UN, World Bank, politicians etc with unknown usages on unknown faces, why can't you spare cubans, a known condition, from not having the basic essential, with the same money?? If wasting money, wasting time is your habit, try waste it on Cuba ...... You do know its about 2000KM from Cuba to Venezuela dont you??? Im pretty sure geologists would have studied the very best places in Cuba to drill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 21 3 hours ago, specinho said: I do not really know how to read this map below, but have a feeling, they are probably looking at the wrong side for oil reserve. At the moment, the extraction of oil is on the North of Cuba. Looking at the red and yellow highlight, and the fact that Venezuela has the largest oil reserve in the world, this side ( side facing Venezuela) of Cuba should be where they explore for undiscovered oil, yes? 'o' '-' Cuba income stream shouldn't be just from Tourism. Imagine Cuba has a) fertile land for cultivating rice, wheat, corn, potato or basic essential food required, instead of importing them. b) area suitable for poultry and cattle farming. They can get egg, chicken meat, milk, cheese, beef, etc instead of importing them. c) weed - the above activities provide a way to wash the money earned from weed clean, provide jobs, do something right with the money. d) excellent personnel in medical field and research - grant them the basic and allow them to grow like when empowering F.Castro. - For assets that are confiscated, you can exchange those with seeds, chicken, cattle, technique they need and some basic capital. You might no longer need land on the existing site. Let them have it? Who knows, it would be healthcare professional from Cuba who will save you and give you a graceful old age? You can also lease the land, build a joint venture company with the government, lease to own machinery paid by the government, supply everything else they need to get started. If your money is contributed largely to UN, World Bank, politicians etc with unknown usages on unknown faces, why can't you spare cubans, a known condition, from not having the basic essential, with the same money?? If wasting money, wasting time is your habit, try waste it on Cuba ...... You should have your country that you live in send (loan) Cuba all the money it needs to fix their problems.............. and you should buy their weed.....(really you think having an economy based on selling weed is a good thing????? you should stop using drugs) see how that works out.......... Reaity ....the Castro way never worked....He nationalized everything ....as a good Communist does and the people (Cuban) that had money (capital) and the knowledge on how to drive the economy fled Cuba a long time ago.......The problem in Cuba for the past 60 years is....the people with brains and the drive to succeed leave Cuba on an onging basis. People with brains and the will to succeed do not move to Cuba as no one wants to live in a country that can not keep the lights on (try running a business with no electricity) . Cuba income stream shouldn't be just from Tourism.???? no it should not (however what else does Cuba have going for itself??????)....for a small country it needs to import the technology/industrial goods needed to keep their Grid running (and everything else that is basic in the modern world........IE modern medicines, telecommunications, vehicles, etc etc etc) and with this you have to have products/services that are in global demand that earn enough foriegn currency. To earn foreign currency you have to have real steady income on a large enough scale (reality if you want global trade and buy what you need to keep the Grid running in Cuba you need dollars). And what does Cuba have that can earn hard money???????????????? #1 its beaches and #2 its weather in winter. And where is enough tourists to make Cuba a success???? duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ag exports (sugar) never was able to support Cuba alone,especially after private land holdings were nationalized. Sugar production on a massive scale (to export and earn large sums of hard currency) requires massive land holdings and modern equipment to competively produce sugar. Good luck in fixing Cuba under its present Government............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 21 7 hours ago, notsonice said: and you should buy their weed.....(really you think having an economy based on selling weed is a good thing????? you should stop using drugs) see how that works out.......... In Canada there was a brief period where you could get rich trading pot stocks. Not anymore, turns out executives can't make money selling weed in a legalized, regulated, market. Funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE October 21 11 hours ago, specinho said: - the above activities provide a way to wash the money earned from weed clean, provide jobs, do something right with the money. You don't have to launder money if you legalize it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 21 1 hour ago, TailingsPond said: In Canada there was a brief period where you could get rich trading pot stocks. Not anymore, turns out executives can't make money selling weed in a legalized, regulated, market. Funny. I have to laugh at the suggestion that Weed is solution to Cuba's problems.....It is if you have the cash to buy weed......Then again if Cubans had any real money ......then they could pay their electric bills @4 pesos per KWH (25 Cuban pesos per dollar)or 16 US cents per KWH. A typical bill is 175 KWH or 700 pesos in dollars it is $28 US (A typical Cuban makes $40 a month)......and with that no one pays their electric bills cause they can not afford electricity ... and yet no one is ever disconnected from their grid......... You can thank Castro for the essentials of life should be free mentality for 90 percent of the population (those that are in extreme poverty) and the other 10 percent pays for it all......... (Guess what........ no one has any money to pay their electric bills to begin with with real money....IE hard currency...so they can buy oil to feed the generators) and the grid would work..and if everyone buys/uses weed....I guess if everyone is stoned...then who cares if there is no electricity........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 22 21 hours ago, Rob Plant said: You do know its about 2000KM from Cuba to Venezuela dont you??? Im pretty sure geologists would have studied the very best places in Cuba to drill The point might have been similar geological formation before earth plates drifted apart. Distance or how far they have drifted from each other is probably of less concern? I'm not sure. Venezuela, Mexico seem to have problem or not smooth, in their oil journey. Could it be a misleading find to preserve Cuba oil sector?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 22 (edited) 20 hours ago, notsonice said: You should have your country that you live in send (loan) Cuba all the money it needs to fix their problems.............. and you should buy their weed.....(really you think having an economy based on selling weed is a good thing????? you should stop using drugs) see how that works out.......... Reaity ....the Castro way never worked....He nationalized everything ....as a good Communist does and the people (Cuban) that had money (capital) and the knowledge on how to drive the economy fled Cuba a long time ago.......The problem in Cuba for the past 60 years is....the people with brains and the drive to succeed leave Cuba on an onging basis. People with brains and the will to succeed do not move to Cuba as no one wants to live in a country that can not keep the lights on (try running a business with no electricity) . Cuba income stream shouldn't be just from Tourism.???? no it should not (however what else does Cuba have going for itself??????)....for a small country it needs to import the technology/industrial goods needed to keep their Grid running (and everything else that is basic in the modern world........IE modern medicines, telecommunications, vehicles, etc etc etc) and with this you have to have products/services that are in global demand that earn enough foriegn currency. To earn foreign currency you have to have real steady income on a large enough scale (reality if you want global trade and buy what you need to keep the Grid running in Cuba you need dollars). And what does Cuba have that can earn hard money???????????????? #1 its beaches and #2 its weather in winter. And where is enough tourists to make Cuba a success???? duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ag exports (sugar) never was able to support Cuba alone,especially after private land holdings were nationalized. Sugar production on a massive scale (to export and earn large sums of hard currency) requires massive land holdings and modern equipment to competively produce sugar. Good luck in fixing Cuba under its present Government............. Pardon me for the not so clear word usage of 'you'. It is a plural form, which means not personally pointing at you... Castro was empowered to build the country. Nothing is probably incorrect with nationalized everything except consficated assets of a few who probably had empowered him. Things were ok until he let go of his grip on free things distributed. Personnel discrepancy from the order out of personal short fall fails it. Saw a video, the distribution is a mess. Some people received plenty. But, there were also cases where people had queued for one whole day and yet, nothing left for them to take home. Heard a comment somewhere:" To ruin a country is easy. You just need to appoint imbecile (or the corrupted) to rule." The difference between success and failure might be if one is granted to succeed or not. If anyone believes they are there by their own effort, it would be deemed arrogant. Edited October 22 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 22 24 minutes ago, specinho said: Pardon me for the not so clear word usage of 'you'. It is a plural form, which means not personally pointing at you... Castro was empowered to build the country. Nothing is probably incorrect with nationalized everything except consficated assets of a few who probably had empowered him. Things were ok until he let go of his grip on free things distributed. Personnel discrepancy from the order out of personal short fall fails it. Saw a video, the distribution is a mess. Some people received plenty. But, there were also cases where people had queued for one whole day and yet, nothing left for them to take home. Heard a comment somewhere:" To ruin a country is easy. You just need to appoint imbecile (or the corrupted) to rule." The difference between success and failure might be if one is granted to succeed or not. If anyone believes they are there by their own effort, it would be deemed arrogant. Things were ok until he let go of his grip on free things distributed????? Cuba under Castro was destroyed and the smoldering ruins today is a testament of his failure. He decided to hook up fulltime with the USSR. Big mistake, not alot of Tourists from the USSR visiting Cuba from 1959 to today. Castro was empowered to build the country???? Build it up to what ?????? it already existed , like it or not it was a Tourist/Casino based economy that earned it foriegn exchange (dollars) no different than Las Vegas, Nevada The remander of Cuba.....Sugar Cane production........ Castro got power hungry and ended up wanting to be the one in control of it all , he had it all and he destroyed it all. Castro forgot what needed to be changed in Cuba.......it was to clean up corruption....and to install a government that kept corruption out. He failed. Gutting tourism and getting rid of the Casinos?????????? he forgot to have an alternative plan. Please have the country you live in give all it has to Cuba and the return on the investment will be more of the same...nothing. Russia supported Cuba for 30 years and the reward for Russia............yep exactly what you see today.....A country in ruins. Castro thought he was smart when he took over...He broke the ties that Cuba had with other countries that he needed to keep the lights on. In reality he had no idea how dependent Cuba was on tourism, Torusim was huge in Cuba from 1920 to the 1950's along with trade with other countries. Do you think Cubans can build eletrical generators?????? Build a telecommunications network....make semiconductors.......What does Cuba produce today that is valuable to others???? anything????? Here is what keeps the country from going into the dark ages today...3 soruces......One is Tourism...Number 2 is Cubans working abroad...and Number 3 is remittances...anything on that list of Cubans producing anything of value in Cuba..................nope.. Now you tell me where does most of the monies that come from abroad come from??????????? In 2023, remittances to Cuba from the United States were less than $4 billion. This is a decrease from previous years, when remittances were: 2017: Estimated at $3.5 billion 2019: Estimated at $2–$3 billion, which was 24% of Cuba's exports 2022: Remittances increased, with migrants sending over $300 per transaction at least eight times a year 2023: Estimated at $1.973 billion, a 3.1% decrease from 2022 Remittances are an important source of income for Cuba, and are the third-largest source of dollar reserves after tourism and services. However, estimates of remittances vary significantly, and Cuba does not publish official figures. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 22 30 minutes ago, notsonice said: Things were ok until he let go of his grip on free things distributed????? Cuba under Castro was destroyed and the smoldering ruins today is a testament of his failure. He decided to hook up fulltime with the USSR. Big mistake, not alot of Tourists from the USSR visiting Cuba from 1959 to today. Castro was empowered to build the country???? Build it up to what ?????? it already existed , like it or not it was a Tourist/Casino based economy that earned it foriegn exchange (dollars) no different than Las Vegas, Nevada The remander of Cuba.....Sugar Cane production........ Castro got power hungry and ended up wanting to be the one in control of it all , he had it all and he destroyed it all. Castro forgot what needed to be changed in Cuba.......it was to clean up corruption....and to install a government that kept corruption out. He failed. Gutting tourism and getting rid of the Casinos?????????? he forgot to have an alternative plan. Please have the country you live in give all it has to Cuba and the return on the investment will be more of the same...nothing. Russia supported Cuba for 30 years and the reward for Russia............yep exactly what you see today.....A country in ruins. Castro thought he was smart when he took over...He broke the ties that Cuba had with other countries that he needed to keep the lights on. In reality he had no idea how dependent Cuba was on tourism, Torusim was huge in Cuba from 1920 to the 1950's along with trade with other countries. Do you think Cubans can build eletrical generators?????? Build a telecommunications network....make semiconductors.......What does Cuba produce today that is valuable to others???? anything????? Here is what keeps the country from going into the dark ages today...3 soruces......One is Tourism...Number 2 is Cubans working abroad...and Number 3 is remittances...anything on that list of Cubans producing anything of value in Cuba..................nope.. Now you tell me where does most of the monies that come from abroad come from??????????? In 2023, remittances to Cuba from the United States were less than $4 billion. This is a decrease from previous years, when remittances were: 2017: Estimated at $3.5 billion 2019: Estimated at $2–$3 billion, which was 24% of Cuba's exports 2022: Remittances increased, with migrants sending over $300 per transaction at least eight times a year 2023: Estimated at $1.973 billion, a 3.1% decrease from 2022 Remittances are an important source of income for Cuba, and are the third-largest source of dollar reserves after tourism and services. However, estimates of remittances vary significantly, and Cuba does not publish official figures. "Castro was empowered" has been deduced from the multi-fold growth in GDP during the first 5 years in power or so. He was given a chance and money to a) rebuild dilapidated housing industry, b) set up a well fare state where almost everything was free to the citizens ( especially goverment servants), c) set up complementary infrastructure, industry and such. It was during his time that Cuba was known internationally in medical field, sport (e.g. volleyball), quality cigar and vodka etc. The downfall began when he changed the rule for land ownership. He offended the few who owned the land, by consficating it/ nationalized it. This alone created a total mess after that. Nothing ever went right again. His intention might be to reduce crime by cutting down the chances of big weed bosses spending time, comparing sizes of phalluses and fighting there; number of people involved in industry of ' purchased fornication'; etc. Not so much restriction on visiting tourists or casino, if not mistaken. Cuba needs to solve internal problems of having a) enough food supplies - as suggested, self sustain through cultivation, before considering scaling up to export. b) leadership - monkeys see, monkeys do. - they do not have anyone to learn from; or anything that build it. The top are contented with constantly overfilled stomaches and pockets. Only those below the top tier are suffering. Until what point will change happen?? Mmm... Obvious, is it not? c) they do not always need machines and high tech stuff, when they have high unemploment rate in the country. They need a system that works and acceptable or welcomed by most, if not all. For weed, when the competitors are venezuela, mexico, miami, Cuba might not be important enough. But since the money is going to flow there anyway, wash it clean by investing into right industry might worth a try. E.g. poultry, cattle farming, essential grain and food cultivation etc. The best plant for me is still something that planted once and harvest for the rest of the time. Harvesting all year round would be too good to ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 22 15 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You don't have to launder money if you legalize it. The harm might be greater than good, depending on which type... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP October 22 6 hours ago, specinho said: "Castro was empowered" has been deduced from the multi-fold growth in GDP during the first 5 years in power or so. He was given a chance and money to a) rebuild dilapidated housing industry, b) set up a well fare state where almost everything was free to the citizens ( especially goverment servants), c) set up complementary infrastructure, industry and such. It was during his time that Cuba was known internationally in medical field, sport (e.g. volleyball), quality cigar and vodka etc. The downfall began when he changed the rule for land ownership. He offended the few who owned the land, by consficating it/ nationalized it. This alone created a total mess after that. Nothing ever went right again. His intention might be to reduce crime by cutting down the chances of big weed bosses spending time, comparing sizes of phalluses and fighting there; number of people involved in industry of ' purchased fornication'; etc. Not so much restriction on visiting tourists or casino, if not mistaken. Cuba needs to solve internal problems of having a) enough food supplies - as suggested, self sustain through cultivation, before considering scaling up to export. b) leadership - monkeys see, monkeys do. - they do not have anyone to learn from; or anything that build it. The top are contented with constantly overfilled stomaches and pockets. Only those below the top tier are suffering. Until what point will change happen?? Mmm... Obvious, is it not? c) they do not always need machines and high tech stuff, when they have high unemploment rate in the country. They need a system that works and acceptable or welcomed by most, if not all. For weed, when the competitors are venezuela, mexico, miami, Cuba might not be important enough. But since the money is going to flow there anyway, wash it clean by investing into right industry might worth a try. E.g. poultry, cattle farming, essential grain and food cultivation etc. The best plant for me is still something that planted once and harvest for the rest of the time. Harvesting all year round would be too good to ask. Yeah sure Castro was a saint who did right by his people. That must be the maddest thought ever, Ive been to Cuba and almost everyone is penniless, begging is a national pastime. Just a hint that he abused his power:- "Cuba's revolution leader wasn't as modest as he led on. A decade ago, Forbes estimated Fidel Castro's personal net worth at $900 million." He seemed to do alright didnt he! Communism sucks! There is more disparity of wealth in communist countries than anywhere else in the world, look at Russia! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP October 22 7 hours ago, specinho said: "Castro was empowered" has been deduced from the multi-fold growth in GDP during the first 5 years in power or so. He was given a chance and money to Hmmm Cuba's GDP growth under Fidel Castro was negative, with a 35% drop after the collapse of communism. The average growth rate from 1990–2000 was -1.4%, the worst in Latin America. Yep he was great! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 22 9 hours ago, specinho said: "Castro was empowered" has been deduced from the multi-fold growth in GDP during the first 5 years in power or so. He was given a chance and money to a) rebuild dilapidated housing industry, b) set up a well fare state where almost everything was free to the citizens ( especially goverment servants), c) set up complementary infrastructure, industry and such. It was during his time that Cuba was known internationally in medical field, sport (e.g. volleyball), quality cigar and vodka etc. The downfall began when he changed the rule for land ownership. He offended the few who owned the land, by consficating it/ nationalized it. This alone created a total mess after that. Nothing ever went right again. His intention might be to reduce crime by cutting down the chances of big weed bosses spending time, comparing sizes of phalluses and fighting there; number of people involved in industry of ' purchased fornication'; etc. Not so much restriction on visiting tourists or casino, if not mistaken. Cuba needs to solve internal problems of having a) enough food supplies - as suggested, self sustain through cultivation, before considering scaling up to export. b) leadership - monkeys see, monkeys do. - they do not have anyone to learn from; or anything that build it. The top are contented with constantly overfilled stomaches and pockets. Only those below the top tier are suffering. Until what point will change happen?? Mmm... Obvious, is it not? c) they do not always need machines and high tech stuff, when they have high unemploment rate in the country. They need a system that works and acceptable or welcomed by most, if not all. For weed, when the competitors are venezuela, mexico, miami, Cuba might not be important enough. But since the money is going to flow there anyway, wash it clean by investing into right industry might worth a try. E.g. poultry, cattle farming, essential grain and food cultivation etc. The best plant for me is still something that planted once and harvest for the rest of the time. Harvesting all year round would be too good to ask. You are back on weed??? Setting up a narco state or a drunk state based on selling Vodka is the best you have????? (I do not understand why you even mention Vodka....Rum is the product made from Sugar cane) and your comment......He was given a chance and money to .......b) set up a well fare state where almost everything was free to the citizens ( especially goverment servants),.... This is the main problem in Cuba............same that is happening in Venezuala today............Guess what a majority of people when given the alternative to having to work and pay for the goods and services they need....will select the free well fare state...... AKA Cuba under Castro and as Rob Plant points out Castro was in it for himself.........Castro did not live a life of poverty ...instead he lived the life of a rich man and sentenced Cuba to poverty To paint Castro as some kind of Robin Hood is insane...... https://www.yahoo.com/news/fidel-castros-amassed-massive-fortune-142104351.html Fidel Castro's Amassed A Massive Fortune In Communist ... Yahoo https://www.yahoo.com Nov 28, 2016 — Fidel Castro long told Cubans he lived off of a meager salary. But the Cuban leader, who died Saturday at the age of 90, passed away a very wealthy man — and he reportedly had been for many years. Forbes Magazine, perhaps the news outlet best-known for tracking the net worth of wealthy individuals, made international waves in 2006 when it listed Castro among the richest world leaders. Despite being the leader of a communist country, the magazine pegged Castro's wealth at $900 million a decade ago. A large portion of that staggering wealth reportedly came from the Cuban leader wielding control over state-backed interests, including a convention center, a pharmaceuticals company and a retail chain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 22 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Yeah sure Castro was a saint who did right by his people. That must be the maddest thought ever, Ive been to Cuba and almost everyone is penniless, begging is a national pastime. Just a hint that he abused his power:- "Cuba's revolution leader wasn't as modest as he led on. A decade ago, Forbes estimated Fidel Castro's personal net worth at $900 million." He seemed to do alright didnt he! Communism sucks! There is more disparity of wealth in communist countries than anywhere else in the world, look at Russia! it is amazing that anyone tries to paint Castro as Robin Hood............ only a clueless communist praises him today. Thanks for bringing into this discussion how Castro set up a government that robs from the poor to enrich those in power. Reminds one of North Korea today. Castros followers are is still in charge of Cuba. Until the government is toppled ...the electric power will keep going out on a daily basis......Next up in Cuba is starvation on a mass scale in Havana.............2 ounces of bread a day??????? sounds like a German concentration camp...... MIAMI – A stricter rationing of bread is happening in Cuba where an ongoing food shortage continues. The Cuban government has lessened the ration of daily bread from 80 grams to 60 grams.Sep 17, 2024 Cubans frustrated, struggling as food shortage continues WPLG Local 10 https://www.local10.com 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 23 (edited) 16 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Hmmm Cuba's GDP growth under Fidel Castro was negative, with a 35% drop after the collapse of communism. The average growth rate from 1990–2000 was -1.4%, the worst in Latin America. Yep he was great! 13 hours ago, notsonice said: You are back on weed??? Setting up a narco state or a drunk state based on selling Vodka is the best you have????? (I do not understand why you even mention Vodka....Rum is the product made from Sugar cane) and your comment......He was given a chance and money to .......b) set up a well fare state where almost everything was free to the citizens ( especially goverment servants),.... This is the main problem in Cuba............same that is happening in Venezuala today............Guess what a majority of people when given the alternative to having to work and pay for the goods and services they need....will select the free well fare state...... AKA Cuba under Castro and as Rob Plant points out Castro was in it for himself.........Castro did not live a life of poverty ...instead he lived the life of a rich man and sentenced Cuba to poverty To paint Castro as some kind of Robin Hood is insane...... https://www.yahoo.com/news/fidel-castros-amassed-massive-fortune-142104351.html Fidel Castro's Amassed A Massive Fortune In Communist ... Yahoo https://www.yahoo.com Nov 28, 2016 — Fidel Castro long told Cubans he lived off of a meager salary. But the Cuban leader, who died Saturday at the age of 90, passed away a very wealthy man — and he reportedly had been for many years. Forbes Magazine, perhaps the news outlet best-known for tracking the net worth of wealthy individuals, made international waves in 2006 when it listed Castro among the richest world leaders. Despite being the leader of a communist country, the magazine pegged Castro's wealth at $900 million a decade ago. A large portion of that staggering wealth reportedly came from the Cuban leader wielding control over state-backed interests, including a convention center, a pharmaceuticals company and a retail chain Consolidating leadership: 1959–1960https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro After meeting Castro, Nixon described him to Eisenhower: "The one fact we can be sure of is that Castro has those indefinable qualities which made him a leader of men. Whatever we may think of him he is going to be a great factor in the development of Cuba and very possibly in Latin American affairs generally. He seems to be sincere. He is either incredibly naive about Communism or under Communist discipline-my guess is the former...His ideas as to how to run a government or an economy are less developed than those of almost any world figure I have met in fifty countries. But because he has the power to lead...we have no choice but at least try to orient him in the right direction".[139] During the first 30 months of Castro's government, more classrooms were opened than in the previous 30 years. The Cuban primary education system offered a work-study program, with half of the time spent in the classroom, and the other half in a productive activity.[158] Health care was nationalized and expanded, with rural health centers and urban polyclinics opening up across the island to offer free medical aid. Universal vaccination against childhood diseases was implemented, and infant mortality rates were reduced dramatically.[157] A third part of this social program was the improvement of infrastructure. Within the first six months of Castro's government, 1,000 km (600 mi) of roads were built across the island, while $300 million was spent on water and sanitation projects.[157] Over 800 houses were constructed every month in the early years of the administration in an effort to cut homelessness, while nurseries and day-care centers were opened for children and other centers opened for the disabled and elderly.[157] 2. Accidentally saw GDP under Castro for the first few years some years ago. It was roughly 4 to 5 folds of GDP compared to GDP before he took over. But i can no longer find the figure. Someone intends to hide things or so. But this chart below still readable as a proof. After 1965, there had been brain drain. Hence GDP/capita continued to rise despite falling GDP due to much less population recorded. 3. Pardon me, i might have mixed up. Saw a travel documentary about "Cuba undiscovered sides" many years ago on tv. Do not remember exactly if it said vodka or rum or both. Local consumption, including tourists who are in Cuba, for rum is probably heavy. Not sure if they have much left over to be exported? 4. Read it in a book, but i can no longer recall the name. Roughly it said " During 60s, more than half of the population in Venezuela were involved in weed industry. Mostly out of no choice." - free welfare state should not be misunderstood as encouraging non productive lifestyle but should be more inclined on profit sharing. Imagine, natural resources found in a country belong to the country and the people. When national owned companies make profits, it should benefit everyone, not just the government or the officers. Hence, the old British system set up free education, free public health care, free government service, nominal fees of public services like water, electricity, sanitary system etc, because the government had made extra money and kept government spending in check. After independence, every leader wanted to prove they are capable to lead their race out of poverty. Many descrepancy happened with the deemed intelligent racial ellites. For examples, giving hand outs and shares secretely (at the beginning) only to their own race so that their race need not work yet have weekly or biweekly income from harvest of plants grew by the government, dividend from government owned companies or bank every three months, etc. By enriching the general crowd, it might be rather hard not to get a chunk for oneself as officers before giving the rest out. When profits earned are deemed not enough to be shared, they - raise taxes, - impose government service tax for services they never render nor do a good job; - introduce sales and services tax on things they do not sell or activities they have no direct involvement of. - increase fees for water, electricity, basic necessities by more than 100 to 200%. Few days ago, budget annouced >80 % of ~ trillion spending is on non productive administrative costs. The leaders hope this news would get government servants and contractors excited. Election is probably near... P/s: things are different in the west. Companies usually are private initiatives. It is out of good will or kind consideration of pioneer generation that social welfare of workers are taken care of. Edited October 23 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 23 1 hour ago, specinho said: 2. Accidentally saw GDP under Castro for the first few years some years ago. It was roughly 4 to 5 folds of GDP compared to GDP before he took over. But i can no longer find the figure. Someone intends to hide things or so. But this chart below still readable as a proof. After 1965, there had been brain drain. Hence GDP/capita continued to rise despite falling GDP due to much less population recorded. 3. Pardon me, i might have mixed up. Saw a travel documentary about "Cuba undiscovered sides" many years ago on tv. Do not remember exactly if it said vodka or rum or both. Local consumption, including tourists who are in Cuba, for rum is probably heavy. Not sure if they have much left over to be exported? 4. Read it in a book, but i can no longer recall the name. Roughly it said " During 60s, more than half of the population in Venezuela were involved in weed industry. Mostly out of no choice." - free well fair state should not be misunderstood as encouraging non productive lifestyle but should be more inclined on profit sharing. Imagine, natural resources found in a country belong to the country and the people. When national owned companies make profits, it should benefit everyone, not just the government or the officers. Hence, the old British system set up free education, free public health care, free government service, nominal fees of public services like water, electricity, sanitary system etc, because the government had made extra money and kept government spending in check. and yet Cuba is in utter poverty where you should no longer expect to have electricity for more than a few hours a day............let us call it The Castro Way... You keep trying to put lipstick on the pig......... Cuba is a disaster today and for the past 60 years brought to you by Castro and his cronies you did notice your GDP chart does not reflect real dollars....but adjusted for who knows how they made the chart try this real chart on for size.......$2000 a year per capita sounds about right for a country that can not afford the basics in life....such as electricity.............and please note Cuba is not much better than Haiti....where hell is on earth you keep thinking Castro was a great man....reality he has doomed Cuba to be one of the poorest places on earth. At least it has not crashed to the level of Haiti.....yet.... give it a few more years 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP October 23 The problem has lasted for so long because castro deliberately banned media and the internet "Censorship. Cubans cannot watch or listen to independent, private, or foreign broadcasts. In 1963, using Soviet-supplied equipment, Cuba became the first nation in the Western Hemisphere to jam radio broadcasts, the apparent targets being the anti-Castro stations in the US." The people then became so poor they copuldnt afford media in any case and thats even if they had electricity. The people have been dumbed down to a level worse than China in order for Castro and now his son to remain in power. The only "news" the people got was if the went to revolution plaza and listened to Castro's bullshit. Its not a communist country its a dictatorship and that dictator abused his power to the detriment of his country and his people. One day the Cubamns will wake up and there current regime will be overthrown. Usually starvation is the main cause for despots to be overthrown, and thats what Castro was a despot. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 24 (edited) On 10/22/2024 at 11:23 PM, Rob Plant said: Yeah sure Castro was a saint who did right by his people. That must be the maddest thought ever, Ive been to Cuba and almost everyone is penniless, begging is a national pastime. Just a hint that he abused his power:- "Cuba's revolution leader wasn't as modest as he led on. A decade ago, Forbes estimated Fidel Castro's personal net worth at $900 million." He seemed to do alright didnt he! Communism sucks! There is more disparity of wealth in communist countries than anywhere else in the world, look at Russia! There had been a consfication of casino worth 900 millions. Not sure if it is the money you mentioned about? He must had known the owner and the son(s) of that casino and had immense dislike over their character to pocket it. Recalled discussing democratic system, communist, socialist with a friend on LinkedIn few years ago. What can be deduced is " they appeared as diverge systems. But after some times, we will see those systems actually converge to share similarities......" Not sure if you have read the post on " oil & gas culprits of war?" Under "aims", the deemed superhuman Aryan of a few German and Jews have a plan for all mankind in the world. They intend to build a world of homogeneity i.e. all countries will imitate, conform or worship Helenic spirit and German technology. But execution of it would be based on people from each country itself. After knowing this, it would be obvious development of the world copying each other closely. So closely that the imitation always includes the problems also and problems created by conformity... All communist countries are facing very similar or same internal problems; all democratic countries have their set of similar problems and for the least developed countries, they have the same set of problems. This world lack of a true leader, including superhuman Aryan. Collapse of countries, by self professed intelligent, is just a matter of time. Domino impact of communist countries; domino impact of democratic countries; etc. The most vulnerable system is monarchy sustem. It is a collapse that will eventually include Aryan society itself. In the movie Matrix, we learnt that Aryan destroyed the world with their own creation and ideology. Zion, is deemed the last place of resistant. Do you believe it is happening? Edited October 25 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 475 October 24 21 hours ago, notsonice said: and yet Cuba is in utter poverty where you should no longer expect to have electricity for more than a few hours a day............let us call it The Castro Way... You keep trying to put lipstick on the pig......... Cuba is a disaster today and for the past 60 years brought to you by Castro and his cronies you did notice your GDP chart does not reflect real dollars....but adjusted for who knows how they made the chart try this real chart on for size.......$2000 a year per capita sounds about right for a country that can not afford the basics in life....such as electricity.............and please note Cuba is not much better than Haiti....where hell is on earth you keep thinking Castro was a great man....reality he has doomed Cuba to be one of the poorest places on earth. At least it has not crashed to the level of Haiti.....yet.... give it a few more years I'm not trying to put lipstick on a pig but monkey that drank from a cup with strawberry fizzy drink would show red-pink lips... Castro effort on the first few years gave himself a monkey's red-pink lips. As mentioned, nothing went right again after he changed the rule for land in the 60s. Poverty of Cuba is a) partly caused by Castro contentment with what he and the closed loop had and forgotten his tasks for his people; b) partly caused by intervention of land owners whose land have been nationalized; c) partly caused by natural disaster?? Not much news from cuba. Have no idea how severe the damage of natural disaster on cuba yearly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM October 24 44 minutes ago, specinho said: There had been a consfication of casino worth 900 millions. Not sure if it is the money you mentioned about? He must had known the owner and the son(s) of that casino and had immense dislike over their character to pocket it. Recalled discussing democratic system, communist, socialist with a friend on LinkedIn few years ago. What can be deduced is " they appeared as diverge systems. But after some times, we will see those systems actually converge to share similarities......" Not sure if you have read the post on " oil & gas culprits of war?" Under "aims", the deemed superhuman Aryan of a few German and Jews have a plan for all mankind in the world. They intend to build a world of homogeneity i.e. all countries will imitate, conform or worship Helenic spirit and German technology. But execution of it would be based on people from each country itself. After knowing this, it would be obvious development of the world copying each other closely. So closely that the imitation always includes the problems also and problems created by conformity... All communist countries are facing very similar or same internal problems; all democratic countries have their set of similar problems and for the least developed countries, they have the same set of problems. This world lack of a true leader, including superhuman Aryan. Collapse of countries, by self professed intelligent, is just a matter of time. Domino impact of communist countries; domino impact of democratic countries; etc. All communist countries are facing very similar or same internal problems; all democratic countries have their set of similar problems ????? oh boy you sure do babble BS alot no one is as backward as Cuba................once again no electricity is the end result of Castros destruction of Cuba Castro amassed the 900 million in wealth by taking it from his own countrymen...one peso at a time. Castro is no Robinhood...he was just a plain old greedy dictator Democratic countries suffering the same fate?????? ha ha ha just admit it Cuba is a disaster today because of what Castro did from 1960 to 1990..........The free welfare state that Cuba became under Castro is not a recipe for success. Next up starvation in Havana.......This winter will be brutal 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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