Macron at a crossroads with rising riots and protests over gasoline and nuclear

49 minutes ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

I'm usually a bit suspicious of the news beginning with "breaking" in capital letters. They often smell like fake news forged by the alt right community. So I've double checked this one.

In fact these police officers removed the helmets at the request of the Yellow jackets demonstrators as a sign of appeasement during a tense confrontation in front of the Pau city hall, while the demonstrators were singing the national anthem. Then someone throw an egg to the police officers and the helmets were back.

You can see the whole sequence in the video at the end of this french article :

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/en-images-pau-gilets-jaunes-et-forces-de-l-ordre-face-a-face-1543704824

 

And by the way, Macron is president and not PM. Macron's prime minister is Edouard Philippe.

 

Guillaume, I would not phrase it as "appeasement."  that gesture is classically one of "solidarity," a joining of ranks against the bureaucracy of the State, and I have seen that also in Montreal  (where it went so far as a full-blown police strike).  It is unfortunate that some hot-head spoiled the moment by throwing an egg.  What a moron. 

One difference between the French people and the Americans is that the French actually know the words to their (quite lengthy) National Anthem, and make the effort to sing it.  I find that a complex one, and am still having trouble with it.  IN the USA, you go to these hockey matches and baseball games and nobody knows the words to the National Anthem.  It's embarrassing.  I recall being at some (indooor) social gathering and the pianist was to lead the assembled in both the Canadian and US National Anthems at the start of the proceedings.  I was rustled up to the podium to stand next to the pianist and loudly sing both, so he could play the tune and (maybe) everybody else could follow along. So there I am leading 200 people in these anthems and I, the foreigner, am the only one who can actually perform. Actually, probably just as well; a lot of damage has been done in the name of nationalism, including a few World Wars. 

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(edited)

6 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:


It seems that your analysis is distorted by your own agenda. The Yellow Jackets are not protesting against immigration or the EU. They are protesting against the worsening economic conditions in peripheral France. On one side the big cities are attracting the wealth and the jobs. On the other side the deindustrialised regions, rural areas, small and medium-size towns are less and less dynamic.

It is better explained in this article from the Guardian :

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/02/france-is-deeply-fractured-gilets-jeunes-just-a-symptom

I've checked the long list of claim of the protesters but found no mention of anti-EU claims. And when they mentioned migrants the claims were the following :

  • That the causes of forced migration are treated.
  • That asylum seekers be treated well. We owe them housing, security, food and education for the miners. Work with the UN to have host camps open in many countries around the world, pending the outcome of the asylum application.
  • That the unsuccessful asylum seekers be returned to their country of origin.
  • That a real integration policy is implemented. Living in France means becoming French (French language course, History of France course and civic education course with certification at the end of the course).

They are not opposing migrants but are rather asking for a better treatment for asylum seekers and an improved integration policy.

But the main claims are economic claims :

  • Zero homeless: URGENT.
  • More progressive income tax (more slices).
  • Minimum wage at 1300 euros net.
  • Favor the small shops in villages and downtown. (Stop the construction of large commercial areas around major cities that kill the small business) + free parking in city centers.
  • Large Housing Isolation Plan. (make ecology by saving households).
  • That big companies (Macdo, Google, Amazon, Carrefour ...) pay BIG and that the small (artisans, TPE PME) pay small.
  • Same social security system for everyone (including artisans and self-entrepreneurs). End of the RSI.
  • The pension system must remain in solidarity and therefore socialized. (No point of retirement).
  • End of the tax hike on fuel.
  • No retirement below 1,200 euros.
  • ...

You can check the full list (in French) here : https://www.cnews.fr/france/2018-12-01/la-liste-des-revendications-des-gilets-jaunes-801586

 

Seems to me a spontaneous protest about fuel tax is getting taken over by the left wing who still don't accept Macron won the election on a platform of reform to bring France into the 21st century. Odd how the end of fuel tax hike is 9th on the list of demands not sure those burning petrol stations really care about homelessness being first priority.

I would read any comment by the Guardian newspaper as highly biased to the Left by the way they are a joke in the UK for thier strong bias on thier viewpoints.

Edited by jaycee

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The far left in trying to take over the protest...

The far right is trying to take over the protest...

The politicians are trying to take over the protest...

This has started as a spontaneous protest and contrary to the usual (and quite frequent) demonstrations in France there is not a structure (labour organization, or political party) behind to organize and secure the demonstrations or to channel the claims. And there is no clear leader to talk  with.

You can see in the demonstrations far-left supporters and far-right supporters sometimes even fighting each other while wearing the same yellow jackets... The lack of organization  is giving way to the violent rioters and plunderers infiltrating the demonstrations to fight the police or loot the shops.

Each protester seems to have his own agenda and claims, the fuel tax being just the spark starting the fire.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

Each protester seems to have his own agenda and claims, the fuel tax being just the spark starting the fire.

^ this

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Interesting take:

Explaining France's Grassroots "Yellow Vest" Movement - And Why It's Spreading Across Europe

For three weeks, tens-of-thousands of French protesters have donned yellow vests and marched throughout Paris. While the "yellow vest" movement began on November 17 as a grassroots protest against president Emmanuel Macron's gas tax - levied in the name of climate change, it has morphed into a general rage against the French government in general at a time when Macron's approval rating is at an all time low.

 

protester climbs_0.jpg

What's more, the movement is spreading - with yellow vest demonstrations seen in Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands by those expressing frustration over similar issues. ...

=============================

And one of the comments to the article:

picture-227436.jpg
Mungo9000

The REAL reason why they wear the yellow vests comes from a stupid government decree that all drivers must, by law, have a yellow vest in their vehicles to be worn if they break down, or change a tyre by the roadside, etc. There was a national shortage of yellow vests as people bought them to comply with the new ordnance and prices of the vests skyrocketed... Then, after people had paid over the odds for their yellow jacket, the government backtracked and decided not to enact the law.

The yellow jacket fiasco affected just about everybody and became a symbol of stupid laws, stealth taxation and a government that was more concerned with its own self-importance than its citizens.

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

The far left in trying to take over the protest...

The far right is trying to take over the protest...

The politicians are trying to take over the protest...

Judging by the list of demands including limiting of class room sizes to 25 pupils, increasing taxes on large corporations, early retirement, end to austerity, homelessness at the top of the list as urgent  etc the wishlist is very left leaning basically returning to the state tax and spend fantasy policies that have failed so recently in France. France spends too much and earns too little that is why they voted in Macron to sort it out, he has gone too far too fast though with his reforms and the Left are looking for a chance to bring him down. I would say they have successfully sneaked to the top of this protest and got their priorities on the wish list before the Right as there are no requests for immigration control just that immigrants must become French via achieving a certificate for learning French culture.

Edited by jaycee

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14 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Macron's days as PM appear to be numbered.

https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1069340718844522496

BREAKING: WATCH: Paris: A group of French police officers remove their helmets to show solidarity with the French people against President Emmanuel Macron, as anti Macron protests continue throughout France.

They've lost much of the Police force, the Fire Departments and the Ambulance services.  Not good.  If the military goes for separation, he's toast.  He might be toast already.

I had to do a special search on Google to find one article about France, only 1!

Protests call for Macron’s resignation as France comes to the brink of state of emergency

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(edited)

2 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

They've lost much of the Police force, the Fire Departments and the Ambulance services.  Not good.  If the military goes for separation, he's toast.  He might be toast already.

I had to do a special search on Google to find one article about France, only 1!

Protests call for Macron’s resignation as France comes to the brink of state of emergency

Let's see...

I would personally think the Guillames more sane take on this is more accurate. 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen

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5 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Let's see...

I would personally think the Guillames more sane take on this is more accurate. 

Now Rasmus, what exactly are you insinuating is my insane take on this?

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7 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Now Rasmus, what exactly are you insinuating is my insane take on this?

I understood that you suggested that Macron would be deposed of there would be held a new election. I don't think either is likely. 

sorry if I misunderstood. 

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Oh, ok.  Yes that is pretty much what I was implying.  I'm not taking any side in their fight since I don't have nearly enough knowledge of what's going on there.  I'm just saying that if a government loses the support of the Police, Fire and Ambulance services it would logically seem not a far step to say the Military may join those ranks and oppose their government as well.  If that were to happen then again, logically, it would seem that the government would fall and an alternate leader would rise up to replace the current one.

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13 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Oh, ok.  Yes that is pretty much what I was implying.  I'm not taking any side in their fight since I don't have nearly enough knowledge of what's going on there.  I'm just saying that if a government loses the support of the Police, Fire and Ambulance services it would logically seem not a far step to say the Military may join those ranks and oppose their government as well.  If that were to happen then again, logically, it would seem that the government would fall and an alternate leader would rise up to replace the current one.

I am not an expert on the Frecnh political system. But my very basic understanding is that this could only happen through 

1) election

2) revolution

Does anyone seriously believe that there will be a revolution in France? 

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21 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I am not an expert on the Frecnh political system. But my very basic understanding is that this could only happen through 

1) election

2) revolution

Does anyone seriously believe that there will be a revolution in France? 

He could step down.  Any leader has that option.

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Just now, Dan Warnick said:

He could step down.  Any leader has that option.

True. Sorry. 

Having seen his speeches I doubt he will do that though. 

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8 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Does anyone seriously believe that there will be a revolution in France? 

I do.

I also believe that   Guillaume  Albasini  is dreaming when he wrote:  "They are not opposing migrants but are rather asking for a better treatment for asylum seekers and an improved integration policy."

The EU is falling apart,  and is becoming more "1984 ish" as it does so.

The events in France are in the vanguard of the coming collapse.

I could care less what the liberal / socialist French and British media say....

I base this opinion on what some of my friends who still live in France tell me.....!

 

They say that the entire country has changed,  and that they are afraid,  and want to leave,  but cannot do so,  so they are resigned now to fight back to try to reverse what has been done.......   Each of their emails to me seem more desperate.   Everything they bitch about is IMMIGRATION RELATED.

Yes,   revolution in France is inevitable as far as i can see.

The only question is when.   I wrote yesterday that i felt it would not happen until after the next election,  but it could be sooner if Macron tries to crack down further on the oppressed native French,  rather than the crime-ridden-immigrant population.

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20 minutes ago, Illurion said:

but it could be sooner if Macron tries to crack down further on the oppressed native French,  rather than the crime-ridden-immigrant population.

Or if he cracks down on either one of them, at this point.

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(edited)

14 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

The whole migration picture is more nuanced than the press makes it out to be. 

I believe it is the exact opposite.

I believe the press,  and you,  make out "the whole migration picture" to be far harder to resolve than it actually would be.

The impression is given that the mess is so bad that it would be a waste of time to even try to resolve it.

I disagree.

I believe that most illegals will SELF-DEPORT when we set in place a structure that EXPOSES THEM here,  and makes STAYING HERE UNTENABLE.

(1) require E-VERIFY to be used by all employers with no exception.

(2) actually hit illegal using employers with the criminal charges that are on the books,  but not used.

(3) outlaw "sanctuary" entities,  and remove politicians from office that supported them.

(4) build the wall to have an actually "controllable" border.

 

Those four things right there would cause huge numbers of self-deportations, and if necessary,  standard deportations.

As for the vacuum created when they leave,    I am sure the "market" will respond and clear those up rather quickly.

ie:  large numbers of homes suddenly available means that home prices will initially go down,  causing home sales to go up,  and more legal citizens be able to get a more affordable home.

ie:  large numbers of empty apartments suddenly available will cause the price of RENTING to go down.

ie:  large numbers of jobs suddenly available will cause employers to have to raise wages and benefits to attract LEGAL employees.

ie:  large numbers of jobs suddenly available would also cause the government to step in for a short period and allow MORE LEGAL IMMIGRATION to help fill the void.

In other words,  cleaning up the ILLEGAL problem would be a BOON FOR LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

 

In conclusion,   I believe the whole issue could be cleaned up very easily if our Government actually put an effort into doing so.

Unfortunately,  both the Democrat and Republican parties have a vested interest in the status quo.

Trump is trying to change that.

Only time will tell.

However,  based on the numbers who attend his rallies,  i believe he has a sufficient number of the people behind him,  so the question is,  can he find a way to get the above mentioned tasks fulfilled ?

I believe he can,  which is why i wrote:    "I believe here in the States,   the people have awakened from their slumber in time to do something about the out-of-control immigration problem."   in my earlier post.

I have FAITH in America,  and Americans.

Have a nice day.

Edited by Illurion
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On 12/2/2018 at 3:45 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

France's Meltdown, Macron's Disdain

"The French say, 'Mr. President, we cannot make ends meet,' and the President replies, 'we shall create a High Council [for the climate]'. Can you imagine the disconnect?" -- Laurence Saillet, spokesman for the center-right party, The Republicans, November 27, 2018

... Another area in which Macron has acted relentlessly is the "fight about climate change", in which his targeted enemy are cars. On vehicles over four years old, mandatory technical controls were made more costly and failure to comply with them more punitive, evidently in the hope that an increasing number of older cars could be eliminated. Speed limits on most roads were lowered to 80 km/h (50 mph), speed control radars multipled, and tens of thousands of drivers' licenses were suspended. Gas taxes rose sharply (30 cents a gallon in one year). A gallon of unleaded gas in France now costs more than $7.

The small minority of French people who still support Macron are not affected by these measures. Surveys show that they belong to the wealthy layers of society, that they live in affluent neighborhoods, and almost never use personal vehicles. The situation is painfully different for most other individuals, especially the forgotten middle class.

A recent decision to increase gas taxes was the final straw. It sparked instant anger. A petition demanding that the government roll back the tax increase received almost a million signatures in two days. On social networks, people discussed organizing demonstrations throughout the country and suggested that the demonstrators wear the yellow safety jackets that drivers are obliged to store in their cars in case of roadside breakdowns. So, on November 17, hundreds of thousands of protesters blocked large parts of the country.

 

He sounds like a white version of someone else I know of. A person that was bound and determined to push a stupid health care law that did nothing but destroy health insurance for hundreds of millions of people, to give it to a couple of million that just should have been put on the welfare roles anyway for that. And the law has been law for many years now, even though the people wanted everyone to reject that particular piece of legislation. But they get the power and are under the impression that they are there to "LEAD" us, but forget they are really there to "REPRESENT" us and it all gets muddled up in translation. Macron really thinks he can do whatever he wants, doesn't he? That was a stupid mistake to elect him into office, but they made their beds and now don't want to sleep in them, do they. I figured it wasn't going to go well for France when he was elected into power, and now they can see what giving a liberal that much power has been like. I wonder if the next election will go back to the conservatives......Probably not 

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4 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

 I figured it wasn't going to go well for France when he was elected into power, and now they can see what giving a liberal that much power has been like.

I still have some friends that live just outside of Paris.

They were devastated when Macron won the election,  and still believe there was some form of election fraud that allowed it.

They have had to move twice in the last 2 years as "no-go zones" absorbed their neighborhoods.

The migrants move in,  and harass everyone to convert to Islam,  or move.

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10 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

I figured it wasn't going to go well for France when he was elected into power, and now they can see what giving a liberal that much power has been like. I wonder if the next election will go back to the conservatives......Probably not 

He is right wing.

https://www.france24.com/en/20180506-france-centrist-emmanuel-macron-governs-right-wing-french-president

Although Emmanuel Macron campaigned for the French presidency as an exemplar of the Third Way, since taking office he has governed with broadly right-wing policies, even if that means ripping up some of his campaign promises.

Macron makes a big deal of the idea that he is following the policies on which he was elected. “I’m doing what I said I would,” he often proclaims. But perhaps the gentleman doth protest too much.

In his first year at the Élysée Palace, the self-proclaimed “Jupiterian” president has put forward a dizzying array of reforms: the anti-corruption “moralisation” law, reform of the labour law by presidential decrees, reform of university admissions, reform of the railways, constitutional reform, a new domestic security law, new immigration and asylum immigration legislation … The list goes on.

And despite Macron’s flagship campaign slogan that he is “neither left, nor right”, most of these policies are on the right side of the political spectrum.

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48 minutes ago, Illurion said:

I do.

I also believe that   Guillaume  Albasini  is dreaming when he wrote:  "They are not opposing migrants but are rather asking for a better treatment for asylum seekers and an improved integration policy."

The EU is falling apart,  and is becoming more "1984 ish" as it does so.

The events in France are in the vanguard of the coming collapse.

I could care less what the liberal / socialist French and British media say....

I base this opinion on what some of my friends who still live in France tell me.....!

 

They say that the entire country has changed,  and that they are afraid,  and want to leave,  but cannot do so,  so they are resigned now to fight back to try to reverse what has been done.......   Each of their emails to me seem more desperate.   Everything they bitch about is IMMIGRATION RELATED.

Yes,   revolution in France is inevitable as far as i can see.

The only question is when.   I wrote yesterday that i felt it would not happen until after the next election,  but it could be sooner if Macron tries to crack down further on the oppressed native French,  rather than the crime-ridden-immigrant population.

 

Your friends in France are probably among the supporters of Marine Le Pen who try to put the blame on the migrants for all the problems the country is facing. But they represent only a fraction of the french population (around 20% in the last polls) and are not representative of the whole French society. Your point of view is strongly biased.

I live close to the french border, just on the opposite side of a lake. I read french newspapers, watch french television, listen to french radio stations, have french friends and family members living in France, spent part of my summer holydays in France...  So I know this country is more complex and diverse than the picture some french-bashing Americans try to paint.

Based on what I see, the Yellow Jackets protest seems to be about the center-periphery divide and not about a native-migrants divide. The big cities are benefiting from the globalization (wealth and jobs creation) while the small and medium cities are feeling left behind.

You can blame everything on the migrants but it is as silly as blaming the Honduran migrants for the industrial jobs lost in Michigan.

 

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"Let them eat carbon tax."

- Macron Antoinette

 

 

(Please note that is not an actual quote.)

 

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23 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

French protesters seem a bit ... upset at Macron.

 

cb2442ef2aa970f2b687cea0660dca327230e71ddf8967520aa1d0d273491e4b.jpg

Oh not again. I really thought the French had moved on in 170  years.

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