Macron at a crossroads with rising riots and protests over gasoline and nuclear

[Rodent + 1,424]

Just now, mthebold said:

I see your point, but I also see the protests as related to mass immigration.  We followed a chain of topics that led us progressively closer to root causes - or at least what we believe are the root causes.  Maybe we could investigate other possible root causes.  Does anyone have competing theories? 

I do want to hear Illurion's quotes from the Koran though.  That would be an appropriate, authoritative capstone to the entire discussion.  

I understand the progression of the topic, and agree that you can follow it back to Macron/protesters. However, I think that rabbit hole is deep enough at this point. 

[shadowkin + 584]

12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Paul, my guess would be Indonesia.  As I understand it, there are more muslims in INdonesia than in any other country. 

How long that religious tradition has been there, I dunno.  But it seems to work for them, so hey, what works, works. 

On a strictly personal note, after the fiascos and mass deaths of 9/11 in New York, the local muslim folks have made it a point to reach out to the Christian communities near where I live and invite the Christians, and this is through various church groups, not posters on the street  poles, to come join them for the celebration of the end of Ramadan.  A nice feast is prepared and we (the Christians) are graciously invited over to participate.  I must say I was warmly received.  The Islamic religion is basically rather mild, it is the crazies that warp things in order to fit into some mentally-ill agenda.  That is a quite small group.  Personally, I am perfectly happy to have Muslim neighbors, it just happens that there are none in my neck of the woods.  In Vermont, two Syrian refugee families were invited to settle, and that was all that could get past the Trump prohibitions on Muslim refugees.  Personally, I find that to be a bit of a shame.  I would certainly have enjoyed having a new Syrian restaurant in town. Oh, well. 

The other thing you want to keep in mind is that a good number of the Syrian refugees that sought admission to the USA were in fact Christians. Cheers.

About Indonesia where the Christian governor of Jakarta was recently imprisoned for blasphemy against Islam

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/09/jakarta-governor-sentenced-two-years-prison-blasphemy/

or Libya, Algeria where African migrants are sold into slavery, murdered and raped today, not 500 years ago.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/libyan-government-investigate-slave-auctions-african-migrants/

https://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFKCN1IV1R5-OZATP

or forced by the thousands into a death march into the Sahara desert by Algeria  

https://apnews.com/9ca5592217aa4acd836b9ee091ebfc20

You're clueless and out of your depth or simply pimping for muslims

Edited December 6, 2018 by shadowkin
correction

[Illurion + 894]

1 hour ago, mthebold said:

For the edification of all present, can you quote some of those passages?  This is a discussion of sensitive issues, so if we're going to claim an ideology says something, it's important to provide a source.  The source both reifies your claim and provides the opposition an opportunity to respond.  

No thanks for many reasons.

(1)   Most everyone knows what those passages are anyway.

(2)   Rodent says for us to move on.

(3)   There are many "Fatwa's" against the "Satanic Verses" even though it just reprints the Koran as it is written.

(4)   Finally,  my best friend for the last 20 years is Sunni Muslim,  and he says i should never mention "SV" because,  though he personally doesn't care,  he says there are lots of crazies out there that will try to fulfill the various "Fatwa's".

 

So,  lets move on.

Looks like Macron has wimped out and canceled the gas tax increase,  so,  how long before he does something else stupid ?

[Red + 252]

11 minutes ago, mthebold said:

In this case, I happen to disagree with Jan - but I'm not so bold as to believe I'm absolutely right and he is absolutely wrong.  We come from different experiences, and each of those experiences has led to different opinions.  Each of our opinions is valid based on what we currently know. 

Arguments are valid, or not.  There is no test of opinions - they are personal views which can range from bat-crazy to well-considered in the eyes of others.

11 minutes ago, mthebold said:

That said, my point in this forum is not to stand on a soapbox and bash ideologies.  I see troubling trends across the world, and I honestly want someone to convince me I'm wrong.  The stakes are high, high stakes demand a high standard of evidence, and I don't ignore difficult truths - but I do want to know what I'm missing.  

Delusional?  I seldom see such nonsense from a poster.  Luckily for us natural disasters exacerbated by the effects if climate change are not a troubling trend in your eyes.

[Red + 252]

2 hours ago, Illurion said:

The problem is the Koran.    It contains many passages under the category of jihad.

The Koran teaches NOT to integrate.  The Koran teaches to KILL all non Muslims.

Read "Satanic Verses"  for examples of these passages.

Over the last 2000 years,  the BIBLE has been CHANGED....   edited into newer versions that remove such things that could have been interpreted that way.  the latest official version is the "King James.

The Old Testament remains part of the inerrant King James Version of the Bible.  To suggest it's squeaky clean is a bit rich isn't it?

For example: in Joshua 6:20-21 God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.”  And in Deuteronomy 2:32-35 God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children, while in Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. Then we have Numbers 31:7-18 where the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war.  How about a flood that killed off everyone, except those matey with Noah.

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

6 hours ago, Osama said:

I wish there was a "WOW" sign as well!

 

well the gentleman's an expert but....do you buy the argument?

It's an alternative narrative to the official narrative.  I suspect the actuality lies somewhere in middle.  Both sides seem to hype their position as relatively absolute.  I don't particularly buy into the belief of absolutes. 

Different viewpoints exist.

When any narrative is presented as the absolute truth that must be believed, and questioning is verboten, I tend to be sceptical.