Paris Is Burning Over Climate Change Taxes -- Is America Next?

7 hours ago, jaycee said:

 

No re read the thread I repsonded to Tom's view that the Daily Mail is a left wing paper please quote anything I have said other than saying is a right wing one. No mention regards the contents of the article.

PS Do you believe the First Lady is a former escort? The Daily Mail claimed this in 2016, and paid compensation to her for doing so.

I did so,  and you are correct.

I apologize.

As for the fake "escort" article,  did the writer lose his job ?

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(edited)

3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

The "threats" as you call them are regards the distribution key. They concern only refugees. They are a measure enacted to ease the burden on Greece and Italy. That's what you are supposed to do in a Union. Help each other. 

Interestingly, Hungary and Poland are some of countries that has had the most economic benefit of the EU. But they want none of the responsibillities that comes with it.... hmm... It migth also interest you that 1 of the main reasons for Brexit was eastern European labour (many of them Poles and Hungarians) in UK taking British jobs (made possible by the free movement of labour inside the EU). 

Also note the Salvini decree https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/salvini-decree-2018-immigration-in-italy-49642 The EU and UN are keeping their mouthes shut on this. It is outside their remit as it pertains to non-refugees. 

You are exactly correct,  thank you for recognizing that Poland and Hungary are under "threat" from the EU for their refusal to take in "refugees".     That was all i and Tom were pointing out.   

Red says that it isn't true,  and that there are no EU officials doing it,  as he says the EU doesn't exist as a government..

And naturally,  he demanded "sources".

Now he has one.

You.

The ability of "labor" to move from one country to another is good,   as long as they are CITIZENS with some sort of skill,  and they are able to adapt to the culture of their new work/home.

But that isn't the case anywhere in the EU.

These "refugees" have no skills,  are not CITIZENS, and are incompatible with the culture of where they have been placed,  and in fact,  refuse to adapt,  and often refuse to "work" according to the media...

And then there is the issue of their criminal behavior.

So your discussion of them as "laborers" is not accurate.

You may not understand this analogy,  but,  from a STAR TREK point of view,  the EU Refugees are "TRIBBLES".   (the episode:  The Trouble With Tribbles)

Edited by Illurion
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1 hour ago, Illurion said:

You are exactly correct,  thank you for recognizing that Poland and Hungary are under "threat" from the EU for their refusal to take in "refugees".     That was all i and Tom were pointing out.   That's a threat the EU can make and deliver on wrt members.  

Red says that it isn't true,  That is false - I never made a comment to the effect you claim. and that there are no EU officials doing it,  as he says the EU doesn't exist as a government..   I said the EU is NOT a government.  I linked to a detailed account of what the EU is and what it does.

And naturally,  he demanded "sources".

Now he has one. Again, you conflate something you believe in to something which is not true.

You.

The ability of "labor" to move from one country to another is good,   as long as they are CITIZENS with some sort of skill,  and they are able to adapt to the culture of their new work/home .

But that isn't the case anywhere in the EU.

These "refugees" have no skills,  are not CITIZENS, and are incompatible with the culture of where they have been placed,  and in fact,  refuse to adapt,  and often refuse to "work" according to the media...  Your ideas suppose many things which are not evident, and are not true, except that it is obvious they will have a different cultural background.  

And then there is the issue of their criminal behavior.  Yes, as there is for the rest of the community, but for the "rest" it's not good media.

So your discussion of them as "laborers" is not accurate.  I would say Rasmus got it right, as even in Australia we make special provisions for "cheap labour" via a visa system.  

WRT to the EU, Rasmus has made the point that as a "union" of nation states there are responsibilities they agree to - they collectively share the gain and the pain.  If they choose to renege on binding arrangements of the European Parliament then there are consequences.

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2 hours ago, Illurion said:

I did so,  and you are correct.

I apologize.

As for the fake "escort" article,  did the writer lose his job ?

No reference was made in the court statement when they apologized and I never heard about anyone being fired. It was a big story over 2 page spread so I assume the editor would have had to approve it and the source of the info so firing the journalist would be pointless.

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(edited)

14 hours ago, Illurion said:

 

You may not understand this analogy,  but,  from a STAR TREK point of view,  the EU Refugees are "TRIBBLES".   (the episode:  The Trouble With Tribbles)

why wacth sci-fi when there are so many good conspiracy theories on this forum? 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen
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15 hours ago, Illurion said:

You are exactly correct,  thank you for recognizing that Poland and Hungary are under "threat" from the EU for their refusal to take in "refugees".     That was all i and Tom were pointing out.   

Red says that it isn't true,  and that there are no EU officials doing it,  as he says the EU doesn't exist as a government..

And naturally,  he demanded "sources".

Now he has one.

You.

The ability of "labor" to move from one country to another is good,   as long as they are CITIZENS with some sort of skill,  and they are able to adapt to the culture of their new work/home.

But that isn't the case anywhere in the EU.

These "refugees" have no skills,  are not CITIZENS, and are incompatible with the culture of where they have been placed,  and in fact,  refuse to adapt,  and often refuse to "work" according to the media...

And then there is the issue of their criminal behavior.

So your discussion of them as "laborers" is not accurate.

You may not understand this analogy,  but,  from a STAR TREK point of view,  the EU Refugees are "TRIBBLES".   (the episode:  The Trouble With Tribbles)

You are of course free to think what you will.

All I wanted to do was question @Tom Kirkmans conspiracy theory. I have never suggested that the immigration into Europe (whether refugees or illegal economic migration) is not a problem. I probably believe in a different solution than you. But I respect your opinion regardless of whether you can back it with facts; I expect you to respect mine. 

ps. why are you such staunch defender of Poland? They export their labor to other European countries where they bleed these countries of welfare benefits and then they import North Korean slave labor who work under unsafe conditions and for slave-salaries. So, Poland does not play fair and they help keep North Korea alive.... And the EU cannot sanction them?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/31/world/europe/north-korea-poland-workers.html 

the situation in Europe is complex. It is not fair that you make statements based on 10% of the picture. Please consider this. 

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46788751

As well as disarming the populace, protests must now be "registered" and also:

'His government wants to draft new legislation that will ban troublemakers from protests and clamp down on the wearing of masks at demonstrations.'

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2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

You are of course free to think what you will.

All I wanted to do was question @Tom Kirkmans conspiracy theory. I have never suggested that the immigration into Europe (whether refugees or illegal economic migration) is not a problem. I probably believe in a different solution than you. But I respect your opinion regardless of whether you can back it with facts; I expect you to respect mine. 

Can't recall whether or not I already posted this video:

U.S. Democrats opposed illegal immigration *before* Trump was elected - 2 minute video

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@Tom Kirkman

what is your take on Polands acceptance of use of North Korean slave labour? Is the EU also infringing on Polish soverignty when wanting to do something about this? 

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(edited)

23 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Can't recall whether or not I already posted this video:

U.S. Democrats opposed illegal immigration *before* Trump was elected - 2 minute video

That's just politics. I am sure I could find some in-consistencies in Trump statements if I were to look. The sad thing is that there is an audience for this on both sides of the spectrum.

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen

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22 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

@Tom Kirkman

what is your take on Polands acceptance of use of North Korean slave labour? Is the EU also infringing on Polish soverignty when wanting to do something about this? 

I don't know anything about this, haven't heard it before.

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1 minute ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I don't know anything about this, haven't heard it before.

Ok. Read the link. I know it is to the NY times, but it is nevertheless true. I know because it was Danish reporters (so called leftwing media; investigative reporters) that discovered this while researching a Danish shipyard that was building for the Navy. 

All I am hoping to achieve is a little balance. 

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5 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

why wacth sci-fi when there are so many good conspiracy theories on this forum? 

Science Fiction at least recognizes that it is fiction.

Based on what you wrote, you on the other hand,  operate under the fiction that you are always right,   and mis-characterize what you do not agree with as fiction.

Just because you do not agree with something doesn't mean that it isn't true.

In the same way that a person isn't paranoid if someone REALLY is out to get them.

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4 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

You are of course free to think what you will.

All I wanted to do was question @Tom Kirkmans conspiracy theory. I have never suggested that the immigration into Europe (whether refugees or illegal economic migration) is not a problem. I probably believe in a different solution than you. But I respect your opinion regardless of whether you can back it with facts; I expect you to respect mine. 

ps. why are you such staunch defender of Poland? They export their labor to other European countries where they bleed these countries of welfare benefits and then they import North Korean slave labor who work under unsafe conditions and for slave-salaries. So, Poland does not play fair and they help keep North Korea alive.... And the EU cannot sanction them?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/31/world/europe/north-korea-poland-workers.html 

the situation in Europe is complex. It is not fair that you make statements based on 10% of the picture. Please consider this. 

Good morning.

This is the second post i have read from you this morning in which you use the phrase "conspiracy theory".

Is that going to be the "talking point phrase" of the week ?

Back when Clinton was President,  he had his corrupt hatchet man Stephanopolous (who now pretends to be a journalist) run the "Clinton War Room",  and every day,  Stephanopolis would issue a short memo to all White House Staff,  and copied to all of the "Media" that they controlled,  that MEMO was called the "DAILY TALKING POINTS"...

The memo was usually just one sentence long,  and contained the "WRITTEN SPIN" that the Clintons wanted everyone to use on the latest Clinton Corruption Scandal.

examples of talking points:   "THE LEWINSKI AFFAIR",  rather than the Clinton Affair With The Intern".    "IT WAS JUST SEX",   instead of a coverup.     'IT WAS JUST A FAILED LAND DEAL",  rather then than 14 Clinton manipulated swindles that embezzled 54 million dollars from the Small Business Administration., "THE PRESIDENT HAS SUCH GRAVITAS"  instead of Bill Clinton was just Impeached by the House of Representatives for fraud, and lying to a Grand Jury." etc...

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(edited)

12 minutes ago, Illurion said:

Good morning.

This is the second post i have read from you this morning in which you use the phrase "conspiracy theory".

Is that going to be the "talking point phrase" of the week ?

Back when Clinton was President,  he had his corrupt hatchet man Stephanopolous (who now pretends to be a journalist) run the "Clinton War Room",  and every day,  Stephanopolis would issue a short memo to all White House Staff,  and copied to all of the "Media" that they controlled,  that MEMO was called the "DAILY TALKING POINTS"...

The memo was usually just one sentence long,  and contained the "WRITTEN SPIN" that the Clintons wanted everyone to use on the latest Clinton Corruption Scandal.

examples of talking points:   "THE LEWINSKI AFFAIR",  rather than the Clinton Affair With The Intern".    "IT WAS JUST SEX",   instead of a coverup.     'IT WAS JUST A FAILED LAND DEAL",  rather then than 14 Clinton manipulated swindles that embezzled 54 million dollars from the Small Business Administration., "THE PRESIDENT HAS SUCH GRAVITAS"  instead of Bill Clinton was just Impeached by the House of Representatives for fraud, and lying to a Grand Jury." etc...

Illurion,

Do you just want to make character attacks at me or do you want to comment on any of the points I have raised? I don't make character attacks at you!

ps. I say conspiracy theory because Tom deliberately or un-intentionally focuses on 1 point and then ignores the rest of picture. As an example - Poland can leave the EU when they want. They just need to trigger article 50. Of course they don't because the EU is a financial benefit to them. So, there is no conspiracy. It is just 2 entities trying to maximize. 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen

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4 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

ps. why are you such staunch defender of Poland?

You are not an American,  so you would not understand.

We love Poland for essentially TWO reasons:

(1)  Prior to the 1970's,  we Americans used to have what we called POLOCK JOKES.    Hundreds of them.  example:   How Man Polocks Does It Take To Screw IN A Light-bulb ?

We had those kinds of jokes for all of the eastern european countries that were enslaved by the Soviets.

Then,  one day,  Lech Walesa,  and his fellow Polish Shipyard Workers at the Gdansk Shipyard,  STOOD UP TO THEIR POLISH-SOVIET CONTROLLED MASTERS,  AND SAID "NO"..   WE ARE ON STRIKE...   

And Poland and the CCCP backed down....!!!

Astounding...

To us Americans,  we had been waiting 60 years for someone behind the Iron Curtain to finally do that...  

And it was the POLOCKS of all people..!

Totally unexpected...

The Poles earned our instant respect....!!!!

We immediately stopped the polock jokes,  and I haven't heard one spoken in over 40 years...

 

That was long ago...

 

Today,   the European Union Government  with it's 1984 THOUGHT POLICE,  and self-destructive immigration and cultural policies is the NEW CCCP THAT ENSLAVES EUROPE...

 

(2)   And again,   it is POLAND,  and now HUNGARY,  that stands up for themselves against the EU...

How could we Americans,   believers in FREEDOM,   not love Poland ?

 

In conclusion,   we are in the midst of moving bases from Germany to Poland now,  as Germany is compromised,  and no longer shares our values.   

Poland does share our values.     

The Polish are far better friends to the USA now than most other European countries.     

We appreciate and reward our friends.

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2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

That's just politics. I am sure I could find some in-consistencies in Trump statements if I were to look. The sad thing is that there is an audience for this on both sides of the spectrum.

Not really.

The Republicans that you would find doing this aren't really "ON OUR SIDE",  they may be Registered as Republican,  but they are actually RINO's,  Republican In Name Only...

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2 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I don't know anything about this, haven't heard it before.

Me either,  although it sounds like a Polish version of our H1A & H1B work visas,  where we allow the import of usually unskilled workers from usually 3rd world countries.

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2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Ok. Read the link. I know it is to the NY times, but it is nevertheless true. I know because it was Danish reporters (so called leftwing media; investigative reporters) that discovered this while researching a Danish shipyard that was building for the Navy. 

All I am hoping to achieve is a little balance. 

Looks like a version of our H1A or H1B...

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32 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

ps. I say conspiracy theory because Tom deliberately or un-intentionally focuses on 1 point and then ignores the rest of picture. As an example - Poland can leave the EU when they want. They just need to trigger article 50. Of course they don't because the EU is a financial benefit to them. So, there is no conspiracy. It is just 2 entities trying to maximize. 

No,   you just do not agree with Tom, or I, or others about a particular point or points,  and you then accuse us of ignoring other issues.

In other words,  once you have lost an argument,  you always want to change the subject...

 

AND  "NO",   POLAND DOES "NOT" HAVE TO TRIGGER ARTICLE 50. 

INSTEAD,  THEY CAN VOTE TO CHANGE EU POLICY FROM WITHIN,  AND REFUSE TO ABIDE BY NEW EU ATTEMPTS TO STRIP POLISH SOVEREIGNTY.

Poland is trying to "save the EU from itself."

And NO,  it is Poland saying NO TO THE EU'S ATTEMPT TO MAXIMIZE ITSELF AT THE EXPENSE OF POLAND...

 

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3 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Can't recall whether or not I already posted this video:

U.S. Democrats opposed illegal immigration *before* Trump was elected - 2 minute video

Part of the strange dance going on is that Democrats are for illegal immigration. Obama tightened up the borders far more than the presidents in front of him, but played it down. Both Bushes, and Reagan, made genuine attempts at immigration reform. But seeing the political cost, backed off. Trump turned around and made the wall a political rally point key to a base that was already out there, but no major candidate would address it.

I'll say it a million times. Go after the employers. The country is addicted to lower cost, undocumented workers. The trickle coming across the border is small potatoes, what about the multitudes already inside? 

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46 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Illurion,

Do you just want to make character attacks at me or do you want to comment on any of the points I have raised?

I don't make character attacks at you!

All you do IS make character attacks...

You started this series with your CHARACTER ATTACKS against me and Tom by accusing us of spouting CONSPIRACY THEORIES...

 

I always try to give you the benefit of the doubt as to whether you actually mean to insult me or not.   

Some people are just "UP FRONT."

 

You are one of those people.

You speak your mind and say what you want,  and you do not care whether you offend someone.

 

I decided long ago,  that the only way to respond to such people is "IN KIND."

 

So if you throw mud at me,  i return it to you.

 

Yet,  when you get hit by the mud,  you often respond by pretending that your hands aren't dirty too....!

 

Have you ever heard of "The Golden Rule ?"

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locking thread while everyone takes a moment to breathe. will unlock in a bit.

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