Paris Is Burning Over Climate Change Taxes -- Is America Next?

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 hours ago, Illurion said:

They do not fall flat as far as i am concerned.

I love what Tom posts,  and save copies of them to show my Wife.

Not only are they funny as hell,  but are often so true.

There you go, then.  This should now fall under the category of "if you don't like it, skip it and move on".  

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

10 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

This should now fall under the category of "if you don't like it, skip it and move on".  

^  well said, thanks.

Meanwhile, back in my evil lair ...

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 hours ago, Illurion said:

Dan:    I do not agree with any of what that Pam person wrote.

We are not responsible for the fact that many poor countries south of us are run irresponsibly.

Trump's immigration crackdown is NOT MEAN SPIRITED.

They are illegal aliens who have invaded our country.

Criminals.

We owe them NOTHING.

I'm with you.  Just posted it because Tom, wishfully, asked for it.

[DanilKa + 443]

On 12/9/2018 at 3:28 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

They want to tax the air (CO2) that humanity exhales. Insanity. 

back in Novgorod period Russia they use to have "smoke tax" - easy way to count chimneys.

We went a long way towards insanity since the middle ages...

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

6 minutes ago, DanilKa said:

We went a long way towards insanity since the middle ages...

Still are.  Just take a look at France!    Insane enough for you? Cheers.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

14 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

I'm with you.  Just posted it because Tom, wishfully, asked for it.

Oh, please.  Trump's immigration policies are about as mean-spirited as you can get.  Taking infants from mothers?  Locking children in detention cells?  Losing children, after the parents are deported, never to see their children again?  Your little kid is snatched away by some brute with a gun, and that is the last you see of your daughter on the planet earth - because the bureaucracy cannot record her name or keep track of her?  

No thinking person can subscribe to that brutality.  Trump is a con artist, a liar, a scoundrel, and a monster.  The people who support and administer those policies are unfathomably cruel, serious psychopaths, without a shred of decency or empathy.  

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

21 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Oh, please.  Trump's immigration policies are about as mean-spirited as you can get.  Taking infants from mothers?  Locking children in detention cells?  Losing children, after the parents are deported, never to see their children again?  Your little kid is snatched away by some brute with a gun, and that is the last you see of your daughter on the planet earth - because the bureaucracy cannot record her name or keep track of her?  

No thinking person can subscribe to that brutality.  Trump is a con artist, a liar, a scoundrel, and a monster.  The people who support and administer those policies are unfathomably cruel, serious psychopaths, without a shred of decency or empathy.  

Clearly, we disagree.

Illegal immigration should never usurp legal immmigration.

If a country is unable to control its borders, and is unable to make the determination of who they will allow in, and who they will refuse entry to, then that nation will soon cease to exist.

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Jan, you seem to advocate the destruction of the USA as a sovereign country.  I do not say this lightly.  Please choose your next words carefully.

Tom, with respect, I read your words as a threat.  My suggestion is that you take it down a notch, or three.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Tom Kirkman said:

Jan, you seem to advocate the destruction of the USA as a sovereign country.  I do not say this lightly.  Please choose your next words carefully.

 

Oh, rubbish.  I advocate no such thing. 

Here is the reality:  the USA has become a magnet for masses of people in Latin America.  They are coming over the border whether you like it or not, so the real question is:  how does a government contend with it?  I am not going to get into policy debates, although I could, but that is not the function of Oilprice as a forum  (except in a very broad-brush concept, one that I do not propose to participate in).  But what is clear is that those migrant people require handling in a decent way.  Ripping infants and toddlers from parents and then literally losing them is unfathomably cruel policy, and needs to be roundly condemned.  Trump thinks that is peachy keen, and thus I denounce his policies. 

People who do that to little children are sadists.  They are mentally disturbed. 

The USA is a big country and quite sturdy.  It can handle these migrants, including hiring bus fleets to take them home, please don't tell me that Washington cannot pay that bill.  And it can send those families home INTACT as it has the resources to do that, without impoverishing the taxpayers. The choice to bust up families and steal children is and was a DELIBERATE POLICY DECISION, and I denounce that.  Nuff said. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Tom, with respect, I read your words as a threat.  My suggestion is that you take it down a notch, or three.

No worries, Dan, Tom can huff all he wants.  I'm a big boy.  

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 minute ago, Jan van Eck said:

No worries, Dan, Tom can huff all he wants.  I'm a big boy.  

Alrighty then.

[DanilKa + 443]

25 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Still are.  Just take a look at France!    Insane enough for you? Cheers.

I'm afraid we are scratching the surface on what is to come. I do see issue as much deeper than protest against carbon taxing. Entire financial system and lack of competition (check Myth of Capitalism) may have something to do with it.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

8 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Tom, with respect, I read your words as a threat.  My suggestion is that you take it down a notch, or three.

Noted and understood.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Oh, rubbish.  I advocate no such thing. 

Here is the reality:  the USA has become a magnet for masses of people in Latin America.  They are coming over the border whether you like it or not, so the real question is:  how does a government contend with it?  I am not going to get into policy debates, although I could, but that is not the function of Oilprice as a forum  (except in a very broad-brush concept, one that I do not propose to participate in).  But what is clear is that those migrant people require handling in a decent way.  Ripping infants and toddlers from parents and then literally losing them is unfathomably cruel policy, and needs to be roundly condemned.  Trump thinks that is peachy keen, and thus I denounce his policies. 

People who do that to little children are sadists.  They are mentally disturbed. 

The USA is a big country and quite sturdy.  It can handle these migrants, including hiring bus fleets to take them home, please don't tell me that Washington cannot pay that bill.  And it can send those families home INTACT as it has the resources to do that, without impoverishing the taxpayers. The choice to bust up families and steal children is and was a DELIBERATE POLICY DECISION, and I denounce that.  Nuff said. 

A couple of good points in there about our ability to handle the situation better, policies and politics aside.  Politics has definitely been injected into the issue; whether or not it was first injected by Trump, I think, is relevant to the current discussion then.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

6 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Oh, rubbish.  I advocate no such thing. 

Here is the reality:  the USA has become a magnet for masses of people in Latin America.  They are coming over the border whether you like it or not, so the real question is:  how does a government contend with it?  I am not going to get into policy debates, although I could, but that is not the function of Oilprice as a forum  (except in a very broad-brush concept, one that I do not propose to participate in).  But what is clear is that those migrant people require handling in a decent way.  Ripping infants and toddlers from parents and then literally losing them is unfathomably cruel policy, and needs to be roundly condemned.  Trump thinks that is peachy keen, and thus I denounce his policies. 

People who do that to little children are sadists.  They are mentally disturbed. 

The USA is a big country and quite sturdy.  It can handle these migrants, including hiring bus fleets to take them home, please don't tell me that Washington cannot pay that bill.  And it can send those families home INTACT as it has the resources to do that, without impoverishing the taxpayers. The choice to bust up families and steal children is and was a DELIBERATE POLICY DECISION, and I denounce that.  Nuff said. 

Understood.  The U.S. has, unfortunately, long encouraged illegal immigration.  Including (in some states) giving Driver's Licences and Voting rights and welfare to illegal imnagrants.

You get what you reward.  Here in Malaysia, sugar is subsidized.  No surprise that Diabetes is high on the list of cause of death here.

In the U.S. rewarding illegal immigration begets more illegal immigration.  At least until recently, when a majority of U.S. citizens said enough.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, DanilKa said:

I'm afraid we are scratching the surface on what is to come. I do see issue as much deeper than protest against carbon taxing. Entire financial system and lack of competition (check Myth of Capitalism) may have something to do with it.

The problems in rural France mirror the problems of Rural America, except the ones in France are going to be very, very difficult to turn around.  The reason I say that is due to the peculiarities of France's "socialist" employment laws.  Unless an enterprise entirely shuts down  (and lots have), it is very difficult to lay workers off, without paying a huge penalty, in the form of continuing wages as a form of subsidy to the unemployment-insurance scheme.  The net result is that employers are very reluctant to expand their workforce, preferring instead to contract out work.  Unfortunately, the place where a lot of that contracted-out work is being done is in China. 

In the USA, an employer can speculatively hire more workers and, if the product line takes off,  he keeps them on the payroll.  If not, then he releases the employees, who go off to find other work.  that labor flexibility gives the USA an edge, and most of Europe has been caught up in the ideas of "no firing," so nobody hires either.  At some point the Europeans will have to smarten up, but that requires removal of vast numbers of socialist members of those Parliaments.  And that is the rub. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

9 minutes ago, DanilKa said:

I'm afraid we are scratching the surface on what is to come. I do see issue as much deeper than protest against carbon taxing. Entire financial system and lack of competition (check Myth of Capitalism) may have something to do with it.

Yep.  The next few weeks should be exceedingly interesting, globally.

Have you noticed that quite a number of the previously loudly yapping media celebs are suddenly gone this week / recently?

Enjoy the show.

[DanilKa + 443]

5 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The problems in rural France mirror the problems of Rural America, except the ones in France are going to be very, very difficult to turn around.  The reason I say that is due to the peculiarities of France's "socialist" employment laws.  Unless an enterprise entirely shuts down  (and lots have), it is very difficult to lay workers off, without paying a huge penalty, in the form of continuing wages as a form of subsidy to the unemployment-insurance scheme.  The net result is that employers are very reluctant to expand their workforce, preferring instead to contract out work.  Unfortunately, the place where a lot of that contracted-out work is being done is in China. 

In the USA, an employer can speculatively hire more workers and, if the product line takes off,  he keeps them on the payroll.  If not, then he releases the employees, who go off to find other work.  that labor flexibility gives the USA an edge, and most of Europe has been caught up in the ideas of "no firing," so nobody hires either.  At some point the Europeans will have to smarten up, but that requires removal of vast numbers of socialist members of those Parliaments.  And that is the rub. 

I can relate to that (born in USSR). Same issue in Italy.

Guess what would be the answer in America... Socialism! Pretty good odds for likes of Bernie Sanders to win next election shall nascent bear market turn into full-blown recession

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Yep.  The next few weeks should be exceedingly interesting, globally.

Have you noticed that quite a number of the previously loudly yapping media celebs are suddenly gone this week / recently?

Enjoy the show.

Nobody in France is giving up the Yellow Jackets struggle until the government falls. 

And the reason is that the Macron government just does not "get it."  They, and Mr. Macron  (who incidentally by all reports is brilliant, an IQ probably over 180)  do not grasp the pain that chronic unemployment and shuttering of traditional manufacturing has brought to rural France.  It just seems not to sink in.  I look at the street struggles in the Port city of La Rochelle, and it shows that the once-proud shipyards are standing empty.  Where are the orders for new roll-on ferries and tankers and cargo liners and cruise ships?  Not happening, not there.  The work force is unemployed, nothing to do except drink.  

In China, that would be unacceptable and intolerable.  The Chinese have developed laser strategies to develop and expand those pockets of under-industrialization.  They will pick an entire sector, and an entire product concept  (such as, for example, solar panels), and pur in the capital and the management expertise to make that a rip-roaring success.   The French bureaucrats don't do that - because they cannot grasp  any of it.  The whole situation is beyond their comprehension.  SO the politicians stand around with mouth agape, not comprehending why the rural people revolt.   

What France really needs is an infusion of American entrepreneurs to take over the bureaucracy and turn it around. 

[DanilKa + 443]

5 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Yep.  The next few weeks should be exceedingly interesting, globally.

Have you noticed that quite a number of the previously loudly yapping media celebs are suddenly gone this week / recently?

Enjoy the show.

there is a chance this is not the end yet but (failed) attempt to persuade Powell to change Fed direction. System is very unstable and with tens of trillions in over-the-counter derivatives it can come crushing anytime. Concentration of equities trading in few major hands, "passive" ETFs and algos/HFT is another self-reinforcing loop.

[DanilKa + 443]

4 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

n China, that would be unacceptable and intolerable.  The Chinese have developed laser strategies to develop and expand those pockets of under-industrialization.  They will pick an entire sector, and an entire product concept  (such as, for example, solar panels), and pur in the capital and the management expertise to make that a rip-roaring success. 

though you are immune to the beauties of command&control regime

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The French bureaucrats don't do that - because they cannot grasp  any of it.  The whole situation is beyond their comprehension.  SO the politicians stand around with mouth agape, not comprehending why the rural people revolt.   

What France really needs is an infusion of American entrepreneurs to take over the bureaucracy and turn it around. 

Jan, you amaze me yet again.  Apologies, I was earlier bouncing back and forth between a tab here and a tab elsewhere that was tackling pedovorism.  My bad.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

5 minutes ago, DanilKa said:

there is a chance this is not the end yet but (failed) attempt to persuade Powell to change Fed direction. System is very unstable and with tens of trillions in over-the-counter derivatives it can come crushing anytime. Concentration of equities trading in few major hands, "passive" ETFs and algos/HFT is another self-reinforcing loop.

One of my theories, posted earlier this evening on another forum, was for the current U.S. government to allow so much destruction of the global economy by the Fed, that the Fed could be dissolved and replaced.

Related:

 

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, DanilKa said:

though you are immune to the beauties of command&control regime

It sure works for the Chinese.  

Each culture, each society, develops mechanisms for creating wealth.  What the French have done is impose barriers to the classically capitalist formulas for creating societal wealth.  One way they have done that is through their labor laws - in effect, ensuring that nobody will have work, outside of Government bureaucracy jobs.  Another way they have done that is through various land-use laws, preventing the rational allocation of land resources.  In short, the French have totally screwed up their country, mostly the result of vaguely socialist ideas that the ruling elite has jammed into the society, under the rubric of advancing civilization.  All that did was impoverish the place.  Not bright.

And that is why I predict that the revolution will continue until the Macron government falls. Macron cannot fix it, because he does not "get it."  It is a comprehension issue. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

8 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

It sure works for the Chinese.  

Each culture, each society, develops mechanisms for creating wealth.  What the French have done is impose barriers to the classically capitalist formulas for creating societal wealth.  One way they have done that is through their labor laws - in effect, ensuring that nobody will have work, outside of Government bureaucracy jobs.  Another way they have done that is through various land-use laws, preventing the rational allocation of land resources.  In short, the French have totally screwed up their country, mostly the result of vaguely socialist ideas that the ruling elite has jammed into the society, under the rubric of advancing civilization.  All that did was impoverish the place.  Not bright.

And that is why I predict that the revolution will continue until the Macron government falls. Macron cannot fix it, because he does not "get it."  It is a comprehension issue. 

Jan, you had me on edge less than an hour ago.  And now you have me tipping the hat to your views.

Dang frustrating.  Well done.