Could Tesla Buy GM?

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

Okay, I know it sounds ridiculous but someone is apparently thinking it is a possibility. 

Forget Tesla Buying A GM Factory, Tesla Could Buy GM

I wouldn't think such a deal would be good for Tesla (I mean, they have enough trouble on their own, let alone adding a monstrous carmaking company) and I don't think GM is for sale, however much or little it's worth in stock prices. What do you, guys think?

[DA? + 301]

GM value did go down to just over $1billion around 10 years ago and would that sort of value make it's assets worth buying but also with all it's down sides? I don't think it would be worth it, just buy up any factories that are suitable, should be a few going round soon, chances are high GM & Ford go under in the next down turn. Although taking out competition that is a major lobbyist may swing that calculation the other way.

I would love to see Tesla take on more debt (plenty of willing lenders out their) to grow even quicker than they are. But steadying that growth may make things a bit smoother. Probably after the factory in China is built and the one in Nevada is extended one more factory will be required for the semi production. That's probably enough room for the next five years. But who knows, there seems to be a new product on the horizon, a air conditioner, hoping that this involves a new meta-material that is a super irradiator on the infra-red wave length. This has the possibility to reduce the worlds energy use by a considerable amount and make heating and cooling available for just about everyone. 

[Auson + 123]

11 minutes ago, DA? said:

GM value did go down to just over $1billion around 10 years ago and would that sort of value make it's assets worth buying but also with all it's down sides? I don't think it would be worth it, just buy up any factories that are suitable, should be a few going round soon, chances are high GM & Ford go under in the next down turn. Although taking out competition that is a major lobbyist may swing that calculation the other way.

I would love to see Tesla take on more debt (plenty of willing lenders out their) to grow even quicker than they are. But steadying that growth may make things a bit smoother. Probably after the factory in China is built and the one in Nevada is extended one more factory will be required for the semi production. That's probably enough room for the next five years. But who knows, there seems to be a new product on the horizon, a air conditioner, hoping that this involves a new meta-material that is a super irradiator on the infra-red wave length. This has the possibility to reduce the worlds energy use by a considerable amount and make heating and cooling available for just about everyone. 

DA,

To buy GM the enterprise value is $66 Billion a take over would usually be at a premium to that so your $1 billion isn't likely to cut it.  But who knows what Elon has up his sleeve ?

[DA? + 301]

3 minutes ago, Auson said:

DA,

To buy GM the enterprise value is $66 Billion a take over would usually be at a premium to that so your $1 billion isn't likely to cut it.  But who knows what Elon has up his sleeve ?

I was talking about its value been so low a while back and the possibility of it happening again. GM's Market Cap is around $46 Billion at present. Tesla's Market Cap is now above Daimler at about $62 billion.

 

[Auson + 123]

3 minutes ago, DA? said:

I was talking about its value been so low a while back and the possibility of it happening again. GM's Market Cap is around $46 Billion at present. Tesla's Market Cap is now above Daimler at about $62 billion.

 

You cannot buy a company for the market cap ! The market cap of GM could be a $1 it would still take $18 Billion to buy the company.

[DA? + 301]

1 minute ago, Auson said:

You cannot buy a company for the market cap ! The market cap of GM could be a $1 it would still take $18 Billion to buy the company.

It shows how low GM is really worth compared to Tesla.

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

28 minutes ago, Auson said:

You cannot buy a company for the market cap ! The market cap of GM could be a $1 it would still take $18 Billion to buy the company.

That's exactly why the idea suggested in this article sounded ridiculous to me. Also, why on earth would Tesla need GM, even if had the money to buy it?

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Marina Schwarz said:

Also, why on earth would Tesla need GM, even if had the money to buy it?

Erm ... for GM's manufacturing expertise, such as assembly lines?  Or welding?

[Auson + 123]

2 hours ago, DA? said:

It shows how low GM is really worth compared to Tesla.

It shows you haven't grasped the basics of how one company buys another. 

[DA? + 301]

44 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Erm ... for GM's manufacturing expertise, such as assembly lines?  Or welding?

Not worth it, making an EV is totally different to making an ICE as many old companies have found out when they tried to build EV's. Ask Nuts Lutz.

11 minutes ago, Auson said:

It shows you haven't grasped the basics of how one company buys another. 

In this scenario they would be buying a bankrupt company, shareholders would love cents on their dollar. But yes it's not at all my area of expertise, but it's pretty plain to see GM is in trouble and a down turn could easily kill it. With all the baggage that goes with the company I'd say it's pretty toxic.

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

52 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Erm ... for GM's manufacturing expertise, such as assembly lines?  Or welding?

Come on, now, Tesla does have assembly lines! Robotic ones, at that! 

[Auson + 123]

23 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

Come on, now, Tesla does have assembly lines! Robotic ones, at that! 

Thats true Uncle Elon could show them a thing or two, GM didn't even know you could set up a production line in tents. They also haven't even fired even one car into space !

However the LS7 is a truly brilliant engine only 160 kgs for a 6 litre V8 !

[DA? + 301]

1 hour ago, Auson said:

Thats true Uncle Elon could show them a thing or two, GM didn't even know you could set up a production line in tents. They also haven't even fired even one car into space !

However the LS7 is a truly brilliant engine only 160 kgs for a 6 litre V8 !

One of the reasons why their heading for disaster is they keep pouring money into R&D for ICE. A 20th century company.

[Rodent + 1,424]

58 minutes ago, DA? said:

One of the reasons why their heading for disaster is they keep pouring money into R&D for ICE. A 20th century company.

of all the things that GM has done wrong investing in their main product is not it. ridiculously high union wages and producing inferior cars and trying to sell them for too much would be at the top of my list.

[Refman + 207]

Even if Tesla could buy Gm, they should not do it. 

Why inherit a lot of UAW contracts and legacy pension costs. Better to simply wait until GM dies and then pick at the carcass for some heavily discounted assets

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 hours ago, DA? said:

In this scenario they would be buying a bankrupt company, shareholders would love cents on their dollar. But yes it's not at all my area of expertise, but it's pretty plain to see GM is in trouble and a down turn could easily kill it. With all the baggage that goes with the company I'd say it's pretty toxic.

Note to readers:  the above descriptive is without reality.  In a bankruptcy, the court-appointed Trustee or Receiver for the company will make the Decisions as to how to sell assets, the Receiver then makes a proposal to the Judge, and the Judge then issues the liquidation Order as an Order of the Court.  Typically for large corporations that are not broken up, in the USA the procedure is via a Section 363 bulk sale of assets, and prospective parties become "bidders" to the Trustee in Bankruptcy.  The Trustee selects the bid he likes, and puts it to the Judge at a Confirmation Hearing.   What the shareholders "love" is not part of that calculation.  Typically, the shareholders are wiped out, as the Sec. 363 bid is lower than the outstanding debt obligations. 

Further, the suggestion that "GM is in trouble" is ludicrous.  GM has a very big customer base and those customers are quite prepared to pay top dollar for GM products.  There is no "baggage that goes with the company," all that was disposed of in the GM bankruptcy process a decade ago.  What emerged out of that is "new GM," which by definition has ZERO of the old baggage, which was left for the Courts to dispose of.  None of that - health care claims, old warranty claims, dealership lawsuits over franchises, whatever - carried over to "new GM."  

Edited December 11, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

Come on, now, Tesla does have assembly lines! Robotic ones, at that! 

The big handicap, or design flaw, with the Tesla, specifically the Model 3, is that the body floor pan is made up of some 19 individual parts, all of which have to be positioned and welded together.  Welding that body together is done with parts designed for the limited stamping press sizes that Tesla has acquired  (or in the alternative that their suppliers have), that mesh with the sizes of coiled sheet that they can buy (remembering that not everyone in the supply chain is prepared to extend any credit to Elon Musk, he has this habit of not paying his suppliers, in effect converting them into equity holders).  The body is the weak part of the Tesla car. 

The big plus or superior component in a Tesla is the battery management system; the smart guys that work there have figured out how to do that in a spectacularly elegant way, and it gives the Tesla a huge performance advantage.  It does not get much mentioned but engineering nerd types know that.  For the public, not so much. 

[AdrianC + 42]

I'm sure if Musk decide to buy GM he will find a way to do that. Besides factories in China and Europe, Tesla could use another one in North America. Nothing bad in getting cheap infrastructure and skilled workforce. 

[Refman + 207]

1 hour ago, AdrianC said:

I'm sure if Musk decide to buy GM he will find a way to do that. Besides factories in China and Europe, Tesla could use another one in North America. Nothing bad in getting cheap infrastructure and skilled workforce. 

Not much point in buying GM just to get a couple of factories. GM has dozens, way more than Tesla needs. GM recently announced they are shutting down 5, it would just be better to bid on one of those instead.

[DA? + 301]

3 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Note to readers:  the above descriptive is without reality.  In a bankruptcy, the court-appointed Trustee or Receiver for the company will make the Decisions as to how to sell assets, the Receiver then makes a proposal to the Judge, and the Judge then issues the liquidation Order as an Order of the Court.  Typically for large corporations that are not broken up, in the USA the procedure is via a Section 363 bulk sale of assets, and prospective parties become "bidders" to the Trustee in Bankruptcy.  The Trustee selects the bid he likes, and puts it to the Judge at a Confirmation Hearing.   What the shareholders "love" is not part of that calculation.  Typically, the shareholders are wiped out, as the Sec. 363 bid is lower than the outstanding debt obligations. 

Further, the suggestion that "GM is in trouble" is ludicrous.  GM has a very big customer base and those customers are quite prepared to pay top dollar for GM products.  There is no "baggage that goes with the company," all that was disposed of in the GM bankruptcy process a decade ago.  What emerged out of that is "new GM," which by definition has ZERO of the old baggage, which was left for the Courts to dispose of.  None of that - health care claims, old warranty claims, dealership lawsuits over franchises, whatever - carried over to "new GM."  

As I said before not at all my field of interest.

That does make me laugh it's well known they have issues, just because they are new doesn't mean they are better, even after the USA tax payer lost $11billion bailing them out. They may look OK at the moment but wait for a down turn, their vehicles are the sort of market that gets hammered then.

Although there are some saying they are now serious about moving over to EV's but can't say that as people would stop buying their gas guzzlers.

[DA? + 301]

3 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

The big handicap, or design flaw, with the Tesla, specifically the Model 3, is that the body floor pan is made up of some 19 individual parts, all of which have to be positioned and welded together.  Welding that body together is done with parts designed for the limited stamping press sizes that Tesla has acquired  (or in the alternative that their suppliers have), that mesh with the sizes of coiled sheet that they can buy (remembering that not everyone in the supply chain is prepared to extend any credit to Elon Musk, he has this habit of not paying his suppliers, in effect converting them into equity holders).  The body is the weak part of the Tesla car. 

The big plus or superior component in a Tesla is the battery management system; the smart guys that work there have figured out how to do that in a spectacularly elegant way, and it gives the Tesla a huge performance advantage.  It does not get much mentioned but engineering nerd types know that.  For the public, not so much. 

Oh come on that's the best Monroe could come up with when he had to say something bad about the Model 3. "The body is the weak part of the Tesla car.", not if you are looking at crash tests, best there is. Also not sure where you got the bit about not paying suppliers.

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

22 minutes ago, DA? said:

Oh come on that's the best Monroe could come up with when he had to say something bad about the Model 3. "The body is the weak part of the Tesla car.", not if you are looking at crash tests, best there is. Also not sure where you got the bit about not paying suppliers.

 

Being an Al Bot, it does not read what I have written.  One of the problems of artificial intelligence; its ability to grasp the message is limited to the inputs of the programmer and handler.  Even sophisticated bots get spotted on that weak link, together with the constant negativity intended to disrupt the forum with incessant negative chatter about other participants.  The "DA?" code still needs work. 

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

10 hours ago, Auson said:

DA,

To buy GM the enterprise value is $66 Billion a take over would usually be at a premium to that so your $1 billion isn't likely to cut it.  But who knows what Elon has up his sleeve ?

Elon's "smoking" sleeves

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 hours ago, DA? said:

GM value did go down to just over $1billion around 10 years ago and would that sort of value make it's assets worth buying but also with all it's down sides? I don't think it would be worth it, just buy up any factories that are suitable, should be a few going round soon, chances are high GM & Ford go under in the next down turn. Although taking out competition that is a major lobbyist may swing that calculation the other way.

I would love to see Tesla take on more debt (plenty of willing lenders out their) to grow even quicker than they are. But steadying that growth may make things a bit smoother. Probably after the factory in China is built and the one in Nevada is extended one more factory will be required for the semi production. That's probably enough room for the next five years. But who knows, there seems to be a new product on the horizon, a air conditioner, hoping that this involves a new meta-material that is a super irradiator on the infra-red wave length. This has the possibility to reduce the worlds energy use by a considerable amount and make heating and cooling available for just about everyone. 

I would love a reference on the air conditioner. 

[DA? + 301]

11 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Being an Al Bot, it does not read what I have written.  One of the problems of artificial intelligence; its ability to grasp the message is limited to the inputs of the programmer and handler.  Even sophisticated bots get spotted on that weak link, together with the constant negativity intended to disrupt the forum with incessant negative chatter about other participants.  The "DA?" code still needs work. 

Come on take the tin foil hat off. You talked about the way the floor pan is made then in the same paragraph said it's the weakest part of the car. So I replied not if you look at the crash tests, best car out there. My input is only negative if you can't get over your out dated opinions.