U.S. Senate Advances Resolution To End Military Support For Saudis In Yemen

thanks everyone. 

Saudi 

On 12/12/2018 at 11:33 PM, John Foote said:

The USA was bombing the bejeezus out of eastern Yemen with drones prior to the Houthie/Saudi thing because eastern Yemen is Al Qaida controlled, and AL Qaida has strengthened since this version of the war started. And those folks are funded by Saudis and Emirates to get them to fight Houthies

yup. Saudi led forces allied with al quaeda in Yemen. Can't decide if that's a move of desperation or if they're just using Al queada to oust the Houthi rebels.

@damirUSBiH @Joanna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Illurion said:

I have removed Alan's picture.  But please do not forget him.   It is easy for people to talk and make decisions in the safety and comfort of their "dispassionate" homes.   But there is no such thing as a "free lunch".   SOMEONE HAS TO PAY.   In regard to Syria,   "dispassionate" people made the decision to destabilize a country.   Alan was one of the people who actually paid the bill.   Good Night.

First time we agree. This is one of main reasons why we cannot just let people die when they are attempting to come to Europe. I agree the world should be doing more end terrible situations like this. But untill we do, we must accept the consequense that is migration.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Illurion said:

Sorry for the delay dan and mthebold.   I have been at the hospital with my Wife.  She had a bad fall.  Just got home.

I have no problem removing the picture.

I was asked in an earlier post to provide my reasoning on why i thought the war in Syria was a mistake.

A big task.   I wrote what i thought,  and in the end,  it was over a 1000 words, and a page long.

I don't like posting long messages,  though i do sometimes.

In the end,   i deleted my 1000 word reasoning,   

I remembered the old saying that "A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS."

So i posted the picture of this poor little boy,  and 3 sentences leading to a link to his story.

 

Now you know why i posted the picture.

 

Now you know exactly what i feel about the Syrian war.

 

Your responses that it is "inappropriate"  and that you "strongly object" to the picture is exactly the way i feel about the United States being part of the Syrian conflict.

 

It never should have happened.   But it did.

 

This little boy "Alan" is the face of that war,   and whenever i think of the war,  i think of him.

 

He should not be forgotten.

 

I am sorry that you are offended,   but you asked,  so i answered.

 

I am removing the picture now.

Sorry to hear about your wife having a fall.  I hope she recovers well and the road to recovery does not include too much pain.  How are you doing, by the way?  As I recall you were just in the hospital recovering from heart problems?

As to your reasoning about posting the picture, please kindly understand that my feeling is that if we freely allow pictures of dead children (or babies, or people, or aborted fetuses, etc.) to fight our battles, then the newspapers and the televised news and all other forms of MSM will be filled with them.  In my opinion it was inexcusable when the MSM could not hold back their competitiveness and ran the photo to get viewer's attention in the first place, and there was a lot of discussion on just that at that time.  But I see it as nothing more than the pointing of fingers at people who by and large have nothing whatsoever to do with the child in the photo.  It lays blame without reasoning as to why the "intended audience" is to blame.  I know the case of "Alan" was proved to be true, in that his family was fleeing war, but you and I both know there were myriad other reasons leading up to his ultimate death on that beach.  I imagine, although I'll freely admit I could be wrong, that that is why you had prepared such a long post before deciding to delete it and go with the photo.  Also, there have been enough cases where the causes have proved to be nothing near what the posters claimed them to be.  I also remember Piers Morgan repeatedly standing on the dead children of Sandy Hook to forcefully shame any and all into accepting his view that the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution be changed or better yet, in his view, annulled.  It is my view that a good post with a link to sources and/or illustrations works just as well or better.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

8 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

First time we agree. This is one of main reasons why we cannot just let people die when they are attempting to come to Europe. I agree the world should be doing more end terrible situations like this. But untill we do, we must accept the consequense that is migration.

I wish we could agree on everything.   But that will never happen.

I adjust what you said above to say:   "I AGREE THE WORLD SHOULD BE DOING MORE TO PREVENT TERRIBLE SITUATIONS LIKE THIS."

PREVENTION SAVES LIVES.

Often,  there is no real way to "END THESE TERRIBLE SITUATIONS" without the death of someone...

............  here is why..........

A week or so ago,  you , Jan , and i were arguing about the seeds of this.

I was talking against Globalism.

My point was THAT THE NATION STATE MODEL OF GOVERNMENT HAD OVER TIME SHOWN ITSELF TO BE THE MOST STABLE FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

I said that i oppose the creation of the EU,  which i believe,  over time,  has done more damage, than progress,  to CULTURE and PEACE in Europe.

The reason the Nation State model is better is because THE PEOPLE INSIDE EACH INDIVIDUAL NATION STATE TEND TO REPRESENT ONE RELIGIOUS CULTURE.

When you mix too many religions / cultures together,  you ask for problems, and war.

............

Look at US.  Here on this board.   We can't even agree with each other often,  and are at each others throats every once in a while.

..............

IT IS HUMAN NATURE THAT PEOPLE TEND TO COALESCE INTO GROUPS (NATIONS) BASED ON THEIR CORE BELIEFS.

As long as we leave those Nation States to their CORE BELIEFS,  peace lasts.

BUT,  individual Nation States have needs.  Materials and products that they have to get from other Nation States.

TRADE.

As long as our individual Nation States have COMPETENT, THOUGHTFUL, GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, that are able to smoothly negotiate, and coordinate with their Counterparts in the other Nation States,  peace lasts.

GLOBALISM DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE IT IGNORES THE DIFFERENCES IN THE CORE BELIEFS OF THE DIFFERENT NATION STATES,  AND TRIES TO TREAT ALL OF THE NATION STATES THE SAME...  UNDER ONE SET OF RULES....

AND THOSE RULES ALMOST ALWAYS PREFER ONE PARTICULAR RELIGION.

THAT CANNOT HELP BUT CAUSE WAR.

THE EU GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS HAVE SHOWN WITHOUT ANY SHADOW OF DOUBT,  THAT THE RELIGION THEY PREFER IS ISLAM...

THE EU IS NOW THE OFFICIAL ARM OF THE ISLAM RELIGION.   USING LAW,  TO CONVERT CHRISTIAN EUROPE TO THE MUSLIM RELIGION.

Look at what the EU has done to Europe.    It is 1984,  and the thought police are worse every day.

If you even ARGUE BACK ABOUT IT,  YOU ARE ARRESTED, TRIED, AND IMPRISONED.

...............

Barack Obama and his globalist, socialist, technology henchmen at TWITTER, FACEBOOK, etc,  ARE TO BLAME FOR THE "ARAB SPRING" that started all of this.

I believe Obama, Welch, Zuckerberg,  et al,  should be tried and imprisoned for  "crimes against humanity" charges,  as they are to blame for what has happened to Syria,  and the EU.

..............

Obama and his cronies let loose the "Arab Spring" forces,  and Syria was destabilized,  which caused the people to flee to surrounding states until those states could hold no more,  then the rest FLED TO THE EU.

Obama's same type of Socialist people,   ran the EU,  AND THEY WELCOMED WITHOUT PARAMETERS,  ALL OF THOSE FROM SYRIA TOO.

AND AFTER THE SYRIANS WERE LET IN,  THEY STARTED LETTING IN EVERYONE FROM AFRICA TOO...

SO THE STAGE WAS SET FOR TRAGEDY...

.................

On an individual basis,  I LOVE EVERYONE.   I GIVE EVERYONE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

.................

BUT THE REALITIES OF THIS WORLD    "WILL NOT LET ME LOVE EVERYONE."

................

The reality is this:    IN AMERICA,  THE ILLEGAL ALIENS MUST GO BACK HOME.   OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT BREAKS DOWN BY THE WAY THEY GOT HERE.

The reality is this:    IN CHRISTIAN FRANCE (and the rest of the EU nations now),   BECAUSE OF THE DESTABILIZING AFFECT OF FAR TOO MANY MUSLIMS IN A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY,  SOMEONE MUST CHANGE, MOVE, OR DIE.

The rules of islam will not let them change......

THAT MEANS SOMONE MUST MOVE OR DIE....

.................

I wish things were different...  but they aren't......

...............

In the coming years,  many, perhaps millions,  are going to die because of what the Globalists / Socialist have set into play.

They have destabilized ENTIRE CONTINENTS CONTAINING MANY TENS OF NATION STATES...

It is my belief that Future Historians,  when looking back at this time,  will PLACE MORE BLAME ON THE OBAMA / MERKEL, MACRON, ZUCKERBERG, WELCH people that CAUSED THIS PROBLEM,    than the TRUMP like people,  that had to do what they had to do,  to RESOLVE THE PROBLEM AND RESTORE ORDER.

 

As anyone in construction can tell you,  it is far easier to destroy,  than to build.

 

The Globalists have destroyed the nation state models,  and it is going to take a lot of hard work to clear out the rubble,  and rebuild them.

 

I am sorry for writing such a long message.   This was my original response to the SYRIA question..

When i was finished,   i decided to delete it,  and put the picture of the little boy on the beach, Alan's,  picture in its place.

There will be many more bodies in the future.

sad

Edited by Illurion
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

8 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Sorry to hear about your wife having a fall.  I hope she recovers well and the road to recovery does not include too much pain.  How are you doing, by the way?  As I recall you were just in the hospital recovering from heart problems?

 

I am sorry that i upset you with the picture of Alan.  But,  in the end,  doing so was the only way i could think of,  as even with 1000 words,  i still couldn't express my feelings of hopelessness when it comes to what i see coming.

As for my wife and i,   She has epilepsy,  and has seizures every day.  She falls and gets hurt.  Has a steel bar in her arm, and a steel bar in her wrist to reunite the bones.

I have a bad heart.   I die every couple of months,  and the machine brings me back,  etc.   Eventually,  we will be gone.  No big deal.  We have had a good life.  Not too many regrets.

Edited by Illurion
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 12/13/2018 at 1:54 PM, Illurion said:

We learned our lesson in Vietnam. 

A lesson we long ago forget. For a time the US had what was called in the military "The Powell Doctrine."

Rule 1. Don't go to war.

Rule 2. Don't go to war.

Rule 3. If it is absolutely vital, go to war, but there can be absolutely no question on winning, and objective clear.

Gulf War 1 was the prime example. When asked why we didn't go into Bagdad Colin answered, "And then what? There are no George Washington's in Iraq." Bush41, who helped put Saddam in place, understood the follow of destabilizing the area.

As for Yemen, remember the USS Cole? Bush43 was tone deaf to the State Department, CIA, and FBI preaching this was the real threat. Al Qaida was not a surprise to those in the biz. The magnitude of 9-11 was, but we knew we were targeted. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, John Foote said:

A lesson we long ago forget. For a time the US had what was called in the military "The Powell Doctrine."

Rule 1. Don't go to war.

Rule 2. Don't go to war.

Rule 3. If it is absolutely vital, go to war, but there can be absolutely no question on winning, and objective clear.

Gulf War 1 was the prime example. When asked why we didn't go into Bagdad Colin answered, "And then what? There are no George Washington's in Iraq." Bush41, who helped put Saddam in place, understood the follow of destabilizing the area.

As for Yemen, remember the USS Cole? Bush43 was tone deaf to the State Department, CIA, and FBI preaching this was the real threat. Al Qaida was not a surprise to those in the biz. The magnitude of 9-11 was, but we knew we were targeted. 

I go back a bit farther.

I remember when IRAQ attacked the USS Stark in 1987.

One of my neighbors Sons was on board,  but survived.

Lets agree to disagree.

I believe we DID learn our lesson in Vietnam.  (though Obama obviously didn't.)

BUT,  that doesn't mean we will never go to war again.

We needed to do something about Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama got us into Yemen and Syria.

The reasoning for Yemen is the same as why we went into Vietnam,  ie:  CONTAINMENT OF COMMUNISM.

Obama has never given a reason on Syria.

Trump has continued to stay there in order to kick out ISIS.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How you credit Obama for getting us in is beyond me? What is the timeline?

Obama was one of the few to vote against before 43 jumped in, said he did say he'd take us out, and yes, a big fail. Trump promised to take us out, but the reality is he doubling down and aligning with the country that brought you 9-11. From the troops perspective, similar to Obama, only very different messaging.  I

Bush43 is the one who jumped in with both feet. Obama did completely misread the Arab Spring, that Western notion that democracy would break out. It sort of tried to, but the willingness of the leadership to practice genocide on their own people is something western proponents of the Arab Spring failed to anticipate, was entirely predictable, and mostly ignored, and the reality is the US and the west were happy with the brutal repression of the movement in some countries. 

Curious, take Syria, who could you possible support in the fight against Assad who isn't an enemy? ISIS? Hezbollah? Curious, what are the options? The Kurds aren't a viable option unless you want to fight Turkey, Iraq again, and Iran. Shame though, they seem to run their regions OK. They have benefited from the power vacuum of taking out Sadat, and Assad struggling to keep hold of Syria.

The way out is we leave. Outside help only makes it worse.

Communism for all intensive practices doesn't exist, is completely incompatible with Islam, so no worries there. Even Russia doesn't even pretend to communist. Putin embraces the Russian Orthodox church (kind of like Trump is a born again christian). China says they are communist, but their version has Lenin and Marx turning summersaults in their respective graves. Cuba and Venezuela embrace it, and they only project poverty at this point, no threat. More like a great advert for almost any other form of government. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 12/14/2018 at 10:05 PM, Illurion said:

Sorry for the delay dan and mthebold.   I have been at the hospital with my Wife.  She had a bad fall.  Just got home.

I have no problem removing the picture.

I was asked in an earlier post to provide my reasoning on why i thought the war in Syria was a mistake.

A big task.   I wrote what i thought,  and in the end,  it was over a 1000 words, and a page long.

I don't like posting long messages,  though i do sometimes.

In the end,   i deleted my 1000 word reasoning,   

I remembered the old saying that "A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS."

So i posted the picture of this poor little boy,  and 3 sentences leading to a link to his story.

  

Now you know why i posted the picture.

 

Now you know exactly what i feel about the Syrian war.

 

Your responses that it is "inappropriate"  and that you "strongly object" to the picture is exactly the way i feel about the United States being part of the Syrian conflict.

 

It never should have happened.   But it did.

 

This little boy "Alan" is the face of that war,   and whenever i think of the war,  i think of him.

 

He should not be forgotten. 

 

I am sorry that you are offended,   but you asked,  so i answered.

 

I am removing the picture now. 

I don't like to reduce issues to heartfelt emotions - but to be fair, the ultimate reason for any decision should be the betterment of humanity.  I appreciate that your intent was to convey that. 

The lesson for me in this is that, while I know my intentions are good, it's still necessary to convey that.  I.e. my delivery still needs work...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 12/15/2018 at 2:46 AM, Dan Warnick said:

Sorry to hear about your wife having a fall.  I hope she recovers well and the road to recovery does not include too much pain.  How are you doing, by the way?  As I recall you were just in the hospital recovering from heart problems?

As to your reasoning about posting the picture, please kindly understand that my feeling is that if we freely allow pictures of dead children (or babies, or people, or aborted fetuses, etc.) to fight our battles, then the newspapers and the televised news and all other forms of MSM will be filled with them.  In my opinion it was inexcusable when the MSM could not hold back their competitiveness and ran the photo to get viewer's attention in the first place, and there was a lot of discussion on just that at that time.  But I see it as nothing more than the pointing of fingers at people who by and large have nothing whatsoever to do with the child in the photo.  It lays blame without reasoning as to why the "intended audience" is to blame.  I know the case of "Alan" was proved to be true, in that his family was fleeing war, but you and I both know there were myriad other reasons leading up to his ultimate death on that beach.  I imagine, although I'll freely admit I could be wrong, that that is why you had prepared such a long post before deciding to delete it and go with the photo.  Also, there have been enough cases where the causes have proved to be nothing near what the posters claimed them to be.  I also remember Piers Morgan repeatedly standing on the dead children of Sandy Hook to forcefully shame any and all into accepting his view that the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution be changed or better yet, in his view, annulled.  It is my view that a good post with a link to sources and/or illustrations works just as well or better. 

On that note, 15 second clips of burning Humvees played on repeat by CNN got people killed. 

We should have a discussion of when/where appeals to emotion are appropriate & constructive. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 12/15/2018 at 10:47 AM, Illurion said:

I am sorry that i upset you with the picture of Alan.  But,  in the end,  doing so was the only way i could think of,  as even with 1000 words,  i still couldn't express my feelings of hopelessness when it comes to what i see coming.

It will be painful, but we'll survive. 

It gives me hope that the Westerners who see this coming are also the ones with large families.  At least, that's the case where I live.  If my observation is correct, we could see an improving demographic trend in the future.  Couple that with rising backlash against immigration and decreasing oil revenue for certain extremist states, and things look better. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

4 hours ago, John Foote said:

The way out is we leave.

On this we agree.

I want our boys back from Afghanistan & Syria.

I want our role in Yemen to be drones only.

As for the 9/11 hijackers being Saudi,  that is true.   And i do believe we still have some enemies in the Saudi government.

But,  overall,  we need the Saudi's.  Through them and the Israeli's,  we have some say during critical events.

Japan was an enemy once.

Times change.

The Saudi's now are not the Saudi's of 9/11.

Edited by Illurion
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Illurion said:

But,  overall,  we need the Saudi's. 

The Saudi's now are not the Saudi's of 9/11.

We don't need them, we just prefer them to some of the alternatives. And yes, today's ruling House of Saud is quite different than around 9/11, I'd argue today they are quite a bit more volatile and ambitious. As the economic pressures build over the next few years it might get nasty.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites