U.S. Senate Advances Resolution To End Military Support For Saudis In Yemen

[John Foote + 1,135]

On 12/13/2018 at 1:54 PM, Illurion said:

We learned our lesson in Vietnam. 

A lesson we long ago forget. For a time the US had what was called in the military "The Powell Doctrine."

Rule 1. Don't go to war.

Rule 2. Don't go to war.

Rule 3. If it is absolutely vital, go to war, but there can be absolutely no question on winning, and objective clear.

Gulf War 1 was the prime example. When asked why we didn't go into Bagdad Colin answered, "And then what? There are no George Washington's in Iraq." Bush41, who helped put Saddam in place, understood the follow of destabilizing the area.

As for Yemen, remember the USS Cole? Bush43 was tone deaf to the State Department, CIA, and FBI preaching this was the real threat. Al Qaida was not a surprise to those in the biz. The magnitude of 9-11 was, but we knew we were targeted. 

[Illurion + 894]

2 hours ago, John Foote said:

A lesson we long ago forget. For a time the US had what was called in the military "The Powell Doctrine."

Rule 1. Don't go to war.

Rule 2. Don't go to war.

Rule 3. If it is absolutely vital, go to war, but there can be absolutely no question on winning, and objective clear.

Gulf War 1 was the prime example. When asked why we didn't go into Bagdad Colin answered, "And then what? There are no George Washington's in Iraq." Bush41, who helped put Saddam in place, understood the follow of destabilizing the area.

As for Yemen, remember the USS Cole? Bush43 was tone deaf to the State Department, CIA, and FBI preaching this was the real threat. Al Qaida was not a surprise to those in the biz. The magnitude of 9-11 was, but we knew we were targeted. 

I go back a bit farther.

I remember when IRAQ attacked the USS Stark in 1987.

One of my neighbors Sons was on board,  but survived.

Lets agree to disagree.

I believe we DID learn our lesson in Vietnam.  (though Obama obviously didn't.)

BUT,  that doesn't mean we will never go to war again.

We needed to do something about Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama got us into Yemen and Syria.

The reasoning for Yemen is the same as why we went into Vietnam,  ie:  CONTAINMENT OF COMMUNISM.

Obama has never given a reason on Syria.

Trump has continued to stay there in order to kick out ISIS.

[John Foote + 1,135]

How you credit Obama for getting us in is beyond me? What is the timeline?

Obama was one of the few to vote against before 43 jumped in, said he did say he'd take us out, and yes, a big fail. Trump promised to take us out, but the reality is he doubling down and aligning with the country that brought you 9-11. From the troops perspective, similar to Obama, only very different messaging.  I

Bush43 is the one who jumped in with both feet. Obama did completely misread the Arab Spring, that Western notion that democracy would break out. It sort of tried to, but the willingness of the leadership to practice genocide on their own people is something western proponents of the Arab Spring failed to anticipate, was entirely predictable, and mostly ignored, and the reality is the US and the west were happy with the brutal repression of the movement in some countries. 

Curious, take Syria, who could you possible support in the fight against Assad who isn't an enemy? ISIS? Hezbollah? Curious, what are the options? The Kurds aren't a viable option unless you want to fight Turkey, Iraq again, and Iran. Shame though, they seem to run their regions OK. They have benefited from the power vacuum of taking out Sadat, and Assad struggling to keep hold of Syria.

The way out is we leave. Outside help only makes it worse.

Communism for all intensive practices doesn't exist, is completely incompatible with Islam, so no worries there. Even Russia doesn't even pretend to communist. Putin embraces the Russian Orthodox church (kind of like Trump is a born again christian). China says they are communist, but their version has Lenin and Marx turning summersaults in their respective graves. Cuba and Venezuela embrace it, and they only project poverty at this point, no threat. More like a great advert for almost any other form of government. 

[Illurion + 894]

4 hours ago, John Foote said:

The way out is we leave.

On this we agree.

I want our boys back from Afghanistan & Syria.

I want our role in Yemen to be drones only.

As for the 9/11 hijackers being Saudi,  that is true.   And i do believe we still have some enemies in the Saudi government.

But,  overall,  we need the Saudi's.  Through them and the Israeli's,  we have some say during critical events.

Japan was an enemy once.

Times change.

The Saudi's now are not the Saudi's of 9/11.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Illurion

[John Foote + 1,135]

15 hours ago, Illurion said:

But,  overall,  we need the Saudi's. 

The Saudi's now are not the Saudi's of 9/11.

We don't need them, we just prefer them to some of the alternatives. And yes, today's ruling House of Saud is quite different than around 9/11, I'd argue today they are quite a bit more volatile and ambitious. As the economic pressures build over the next few years it might get nasty.