Electric Cars Making Gas Cars As Obsolete As ‘Flip Phones’

The take up of EV's in Europe is astonishing. In Norway 60% of new vehicle sales are EV( https://electrek.co/2018/10/01/electric-vehicle-sales-new-record-norway-tesla/)

The EV take-up strategy I have adopted is to buy good quality USED diesel cars and will continue to do so until the EV technologies have been ironed out.

When the re-charge interval reaches the 5-10 minutes you get with petrol/gas and the infrastructure has been built out to enable recharge sites then I will have a good look at whats around.

More diesel scare stories please :-)

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On 1/6/2019 at 2:08 PM, Janet Alderton said:

I find this photo amusing.

Golf Cart Community.jpeg

Looks like Saint Johns County,  near the World Golf Village...

Sonny's has such great BBQ.

When my Sister-In-Law visits from Oklahoma,  the first thing she does is hit Sonny's...

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(edited)

On 1/6/2019 at 8:14 PM, mthebold said:

Good point.  A third consideration might be availability of aluminum.  The Models S & X were relatively low volume, but the 3 would require serious quantities of metal.  With other automakers also incorporating aluminum, demand may temporarily exceed what the aluminum industry can economically produce. 

It will be interesting to see what they do with future vehicles. 

I really want an EV,  but am waiting for the price to go down.

Will probably buy a Tesla when i can,  as i like what Musk did with SPACEX.

Loved that he sent a Tesla convertible into space....!

It is just so crazy,   that you have to give him credit for having the balls to do it.

 

(ps:  that convertible reminds me of my old 1965 MG-B)

 

My big fear about EV's though,  is that they are so small,  and so vulnerable.

They are like rolling coffins...

The odds are you are dead if you get hit by a regular car...

Edited by Illurion
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(edited)

39 minutes ago, Illurion said:

My big fear about EV's though,  is that they are so small,  and so vulnerable.

They are like rolling coffins...

The odds are you are dead if you get hit by a regular car... 

EV's small and vulnerable?  Noooooooooooo.  Quite the opposite, in fact. 

To begin with, let's put this in perspective: if you get run over by a semi, you're going to die.  That's as true in an F-350 as it is in a Smart Fourtwo Electric.  The question at hand is, "How does EV safety compare to an ICE vehicle in the same market segment?"  As it turns out, EVs are heavier and sturdier - esp. the Teslas, which are built with a floor battery.  They also have lower centers of gravity, and are just as - if not more - difficult to crush. 

The low center of gravity and ability to absorb impact energy are a function of how much mass is present and where that mass is placed.  In an EV, there's lots of mass, and it's located such that the impacting car's bumper will ram right into it.  That's good for collisions.  By comparison, an ICE has much of its mass concentrated in the engine & transmission, with two negative consequences:
1)  There's less mass distributed around the vehicle to absorb impacts from all directions.
2)  In a frontal collision, the ICE tends to get pushed directly into the front seats.  This tends to kill the occupants, they being squishier than metal. 

So yes, you can get a safer ICE vehicle if you purchase a sufficiently large one - full size SUVs come to mind - but that has much higher total life cycle cost.  If you compare an EV within its market segment or to vehicles with comparable costs, the EV is most likely safer. 

Edited by mthebold
Improved paragraph breaks & added a phrase.
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5 hours ago, Philbo said:

The take up of EV's in Europe is astonishing. In Norway 60% of new vehicle sales are EV( https://electrek.co/2018/10/01/electric-vehicle-sales-new-record-norway-tesla/)

The EV take-up strategy I have adopted is to buy good quality USED diesel cars and will continue to do so until the EV technologies have been ironed out.

When the re-charge interval reaches the 5-10 minutes you get with petrol/gas and the infrastructure has been built out to enable recharge sites then I will have a good look at whats around.

More diesel scare stories please 🙂

If you have room to charge it at home and that is all that most people require for distances done it takes less time than driving to and filling up at a gas station, just plug it in and then before going unplug, seconds.

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9 minutes ago, DA? said:

If you have room to charge it at home and that is all that most people require for distances done it takes less time than driving to and filling up at a gas station, just plug it in and then before going unplug, seconds.

This is a good point.  When people discuss charge times and charging infrastructure, they ignore the benefits of home charging.  Personally, I could do without regular trips to a facility soaked in chemicals, covered in dirt, and inhabited by the sketchy elements of society. 

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10 minutes ago, mthebold said:

EV's small and vulnerable?  Noooooooooooo.  Quite the opposite, in fact. 

To begin with, let's put this in perspective: if you get run over by a semi, you're going to die.  That's as true in an F-350 as it is in a Smart Fourtwo Electric.  The question at hand is, "How does EV safety compare to an ICE vehicle in the same market segment?"  As it turns out, EVs are heavier and sturdier - esp. the Teslas, which are built with a floor battery.  They also have lower centers of gravity, and are just as - if not more - difficult to crush.  The low center of gravity and ability to absorb impact energy are a function of how much mass is present and where that mass is placed.  In an EV, there's lots of mass, and it's located such that the impacting car's bumper will ram right into it.  That's good for collisions.  By comparison, an ICE has much of its mass concentrated in the engine & transmission, with two negative consequences:
1)  There's less mass distributed around the vehicle to absorb impacts from all directions.
2)  In a frontal collision, the ICE tends to get pushed directly into the front seats, which tends to kill the occupants. 

So yes, you can get a safer ICE vehicle if you purchase a sufficiently large one - full size SUVs come to mind - but that has much higher total life cycle cost.  If you compare an EV within its market segment or to vehicles with comparable costs, the EV is most likely safer. 

I drive big steel cars now.

But,  Ok..

Good.

Please buy me a Tesla Convertible like my old MG-B..

I am old,  sick,  and going to kick off soon anyway.

So it doesn't matter how i kick off.

In fact,  maybe if i kick off in an accident,  my Wife will get double-indemnity on my life insurance.  ☺️

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5 hours ago, Philbo said:

The take up of EV's in Europe is astonishing. In Norway 60% of new vehicle sales are EV( https://electrek.co/2018/10/01/electric-vehicle-sales-new-record-norway-tesla/)

The EV take-up strategy I have adopted is to buy good quality USED diesel cars and will continue to do so until the EV technologies have been ironed out.

When the re-charge interval reaches the 5-10 minutes you get with petrol/gas and the infrastructure has been built out to enable recharge sites then I will have a good look at whats around.

More diesel scare stories please 🙂

That's my strategy as well.  Let the pawns go first.

That said, uptake is high in Europe because the geography & economics make more sense there.  Norway, in particular, has a near-ideal situation: cheap hydroelectric power, short driving distances, lots of capital to invest in new vehicles, and high fuel prices.  The only factor working against them is cold Winters, but that's outweighed by their other advantages. 

Other European countries don't enjoy Norway's cheap, abundant electricity, but they do share its other characteristics.  I suspect EV's will quickly reach cost advantage across all of Western Europe, at which point the limitation will be manufacturing capacity.  Automakers appear to have anticipated this fact and are ramping up EV production as quickly as feasible. 

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5 minutes ago, Illurion said:

I drive big steel cars now.

But,  Ok..

Good.

Please buy me a Tesla Convertible like my old MG-B..

I am old,  sick,  and going to kick off soon anyway.

So it doesn't matter how i kick off.

In fact,  maybe if i kick off in an accident,  my Wife will get double-indemnity on my life insurance.  ☺️

Yeah, safety isn't a primary concern for me either; I was just saying. 

I figure since I have no kids, my death is of no consequence; may as well have a good time.  I also have no intention of rotting in a nursing home, previous generations having proven that miserable for all concerned.  Unfortunately, Christianity seems to insist on such nonsense, so I've chosen a more practical theology: Odinism.  I shall die a worthy death in battle and let the Valkyries take me to Valhalla. 

It may be a bit of a challenge finding that battle though; modern societies tend to frown upon mercenaries, dueling, pillaging, etc.  The state department didn't even respond to my inquiry about volunteering for the Kurdish Peshmerga...

 

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5 hours ago, mthebold said:

Yeah, safety isn't a primary concern for me either; I was just saying. 

so I've chosen a more practical theology: Odinism.  I shall die a worthy death in battle and let the Valkyries take me to Valhalla. 

It may be a bit of a challenge finding that battle though; modern societies tend to frown upon mercenaries, dueling, pillaging, etc.

Excellent,   i have just the mercenary job for you:

You need to dress up as a Viking,  and go to all of the rallies of the terrorist group that calls itself ANTIFA...

Use your sword and axe to kill all of the antifa's....

That would be very useful to the world. 9_9

The antifa's are so pantywaist,  that you will win every battle and never die....

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2 hours ago, Illurion said:

Excellent,   i have just the mercenary job for you:

You need to dress up as a Viking,  and go to all of the rallies of the terrorist group that calls itself ANTIFA...

Use your sword and axe to kill all of the antifa's....

That would be very useful to the world. 9_9

The antifa's are so pantywaist,  that you will win every battle and never die....

Indeed.  I shall know Bjorn's frustration

Seriously though, it's tempting...

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7 hours ago, Illurion said:

Excellent,   i have just the mercenary job for you:

You need to dress up as a Viking,  and go to all of the rallies of the terrorist group that calls itself ANTIFA...

Use your sword and axe to kill all of the antifa's....

That would be very useful to the world. 9_9

The antifa's are so pantywaist,  that you will win every battle and never die....

While we're on the topic, the viking tradition was for old warriors to seek battle unto death.  This served a triple purpose:
1)  It gave them purpose & entertainment to the very end.
2)  It eliminated the cost of elderly care - which was prohibitive in the harsh Scandinavian climate.
3)  It brought wealth back to the community via pillaging. 

I'm a bit surprised America's old farts haven't revived this practice.  It would sort the country out in a hurry. 

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7 hours ago, Illurion said:

Excellent,   i have just the mercenary job for you:

You need to dress up as a Viking,  and go to all of the rallies of the terrorist group that calls itself ANTIFA...

Use your sword and axe to kill all of the antifa's....

That would be very useful to the world. 9_9

The antifa's are so pantywaist,  that you will win every battle and never die....

This is said in jest but inciting violence is a dangerous path to take.

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35 minutes ago, mthebold said:

While we're on the topic, the viking tradition was for old warriors to seek battle unto death.  This served a triple purpose:
1)  It gave them purpose & entertainment to the very end.
2)  It eliminated the cost of elderly care - which was prohibitive in the harsh Scandinavian climate.
3)  It brought wealth back to the community via pillaging. 

I'm a bit surprised America's old farts haven't revived this practice.  It would sort the country out in a hurry. 

The USA has been carrying out number 3) for quite sometime and it hasn't helped much.

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9 hours ago, DA? said:

The USA has been carrying out number 3) for quite sometime and it hasn't helped much.

Also, the old farts have figured out that it is better to send the young off to die so they don't have to die themselves.

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10 hours ago, DA? said:

The USA has been carrying out number 3) for quite sometime and it hasn't helped much. 

 

24 minutes ago, John N Denver said:

Also, the old farts have figured out that it is better to send the young off to die so they don't have to die themselves.

It's not the "old farts" who send young men to war; it's the sociopathic elites.  Rather than pillaging abroad, it would make more sense for the old men to hunt sociopaths.  An elite would pay closer attention to the needs of others lest a cantankerous old man with nothing left to lose decide society was better off without him. 

Think Clint Eastwood in "Gran Torino". 

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2 hours ago, John N Denver said:

Also, the old farts have figured out that it is better to send the young off to die so they don't have to die themselves.

Always seemed the wrong way round, us old farts are far less useful.

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13 hours ago, DA? said:

This is said in jest but inciting violence is a dangerous path to take.

Excellent words.

But you should be addressing them to the Antifa thugs who are beating up people.

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3 hours ago, John N Denver said:

Also, the old farts have figured out that it is better to send the young off to die so they don't have to die themselves.

Not exactly.

Many of the old farts served when they were young.

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1 hour ago, DA? said:

Always seemed the wrong way round, us old farts are far less useful.

True.

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8 minutes ago, Illurion said:

Excellent words.

But you should be addressing them to the Antifa thugs who are beating up people.

I address it to anyone that uses violence.

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25 minutes ago, DA? said:

I address it to anyone that uses violence.

Ok.

I have used violence in the past to defend myself from a criminal thug who was trying to kill me.

So you are saying i am wrong to have used violence to defend myself ?

If so,  then you and i disagree.

What will you do when someone puts a gun to your head ?

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37 minutes ago, Illurion said:

Ok.

I have used violence in the past to defend myself from a criminal thug who was trying to kill me.

So you are saying i am wrong to have used violence to defend myself ?

If so,  then you and i disagree.

What will you do when someone puts a gun to your head ?

Hari Seldon, “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.”  

I guess I've been incompetent as well, but have always tried to use the minimal amount of violence required.

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1 hour ago, DA? said:

Hari Seldon, “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.”  

I guess I've been incompetent as well, but have always tried to use the minimal amount of violence required.

"Hari Seldon"

That takes me back a while.

The Foundation Trilogy

Excellent books

I ought to go reread them.

Haven't read them since the 70's...

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8 hours ago, DA? said:

Hari Seldon, “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.”  

I guess I've been incompetent as well, but have always tried to use the minimal amount of violence required.

Antifa are not nice people.   They kill for fun..

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/01/breaking-antifa-group-claims-responsibility-for-attempted-assassination-of-german-afd-politician/

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