*Happy Dance* ... U.S. Shale Oil Slowdown

2 minutes ago, AcK said:

You are right it doesnt - my point was in response to the view that OPEC should have cut more (2mbd versus 1mbd ex-Russia announced). OPEC is just bringing 2019E production back to 2017 levels - adjusted for Iran and Venezuela (where production has gone down massively for very different reasons). Incremental demand (1.5mbd/annum) is being met by other countries (US primarily). Point being if OPEC cuts another 1mbd (over an above the cut already announced for Jan), then we are talking crude at US$100.

You are still neglecting the pertinent point. The data suggest that incremental demand (1.5 MB/D/Yr) is being over-met, not just met, by about a million barrels a day. That increment must be relinquished by OPEC if an oversupply situation is to be avoided. And how does the industry force OPEC to shut in a million barrels a day that they do not wish to give up? By undercutting the price.

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3 minutes ago, bmp344@gmail.com said:

I am a physician who has spent most of my life saving children's lives. My colleagues referred to me as a specialist in the last 15 minutes of life with the goal of always giving my best effort to convert that 15 minutes into 70+ years. 

I have always had a very strong interest in all sources of energy, including fossil fuels, nuclear, hydroelectric, wind, our sun, and  even interstellar effects on earth's climate. Open to and interested in all scientific data and points of view.

Down here In West Texas Solar now smokin' Wind generated power.  Truth be told, Yellowstone has enough heatsource close to surface, a power plant could be erected and power the nation. But then that defeats all other industries and it's all about money. Greed is still king around the world.

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1 hour ago, Illurion said:

Ok...  then this leads back to Toms question of why did they drill all of these wells that are waiting for completion....

Is it for a rainy day ?

Are they doing it now because the people and the tools are available,  so put them to work doing something,  even if it is "make-work"...?

In other words,  get as much done as you can NOW while the industry is "hot",   knowing that once people are laid off,  and equipment is sold off or disposed of,  or degraded,   that it would far more time consuming and expensive to rehire, and retool, and start from scratch in order for them to drill those same wells in the future,  instead of now ?

I posed the question of how DUCs were impacting operators' bottom lines about two weeks ago in this thread. The latest DUC count that I have seen for the US is 9,000. I can't imagine that a sane operator is going to drill a well just to drill it. There is always $$ to be considered. Sometimes wells get drilled in order to satisfy lease requirements but that alone will not rack up DUCs counts like we see today. I am guessing the answer is multi-faceted. 1)The operators are expecting drilling costs to be higher tomorrow than they are today. 2)There simply is not enough manpower/equipment available to frac & complete the wells as fast as the operators are drilling them. 3)The pipeline shortage is very real and the operators are waiting for capacity to come on line before spending money on completions. 4)Could be a combination of the first three?

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On 1/18/2019 at 7:37 AM, Meredith Poor said:

 

Texas oil isn't just competing with Saudi Arabia. It's competing with Silicon Valley startups, Japanese and Korean battery companies, and an unknown number of disruptors toiling away in their garages.

And I am one of those Disruptors.   I intend to develop and market a simple add-on for automobiles, bolted onto a training support carriage with an extra close-coupled two wheels to avoid handling and tire-load issues, a small Converter that will generate  pyrolized wood gas into  a direct burn fuel.  Run a hose under the car chassis from the rear and feed it into the air intake through a throttle-body valve, and you have instant switch-over from gasoline to wood gas.  

The motive for this is the up-coming drive towards a huge carbon tax in Vermont.  The far-left ultra-leftists are proposing a carbon tax of a dollar a gallon, including on heating oil and propane.  Vermont is a poor rural State; the median income is $14.42/hour. The far-leftists that have seized control of the Legislature in the last election cycle now have the votes to override the Governor's Veto, so I anticipate it is only a matter of time.  My wood gas generator is cheap and easy to fabricate and retro-fit, so then the poorer people in the countryside can drop shredded wood into the pyrolyzer chamber, generate their gas, and drive for free.  It should be a huge hit. Especially as you can go scavenge wood in the forest, of which Vermont has lots.

It may surprise readers to learn that such wood machines were dominant in Europe during WWII.  For example, some 95% of all Danish IC engines were converted and ran on wood gas.  That includes farm tractors, cars, trucks, and fishing boats.  All the oil was scooped up by the Wehrmacht for the war effort.  The Danes went over to wood gas.  So did the Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, anywhere there was wood available. 

My other oil-competing project involves a direct drop-in replacement for the IC engine.  When the old motor is disintegrated, instead of spending $4K for a rebuilt and swap, you pull the motor package out and drop in a flash steam boiler package. You can develop all the power you want for your old heap; want 1,000 hp for that 1956 pick-up?  Not an issue.  Use my steam engine.  

And that is how you deal with the Leftists and their crazy carbon-tax ideas.  You out-flank them with technology.

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39 minutes ago, MUI said:

I posed the question of how DUCs were impacting operators' bottom lines about two weeks ago in this thread. The latest DUC count that I have seen for the US is 9,000. I can't imagine that a sane operator is going to drill a well just to drill it. There is always $$ to be considered. Sometimes wells get drilled in order to satisfy lease requirements but that alone will not rack up DUCs counts like we see today. I am guessing the answer is multi-faceted. 1)The operators are expecting drilling costs to be higher tomorrow than they are today. 2)There simply is not enough manpower/equipment available to frac & complete the wells as fast as the operators are drilling them. 3)The pipeline shortage is very real and the operators are waiting for capacity to come on line before spending money on completions. 4)Could be a combination of the first three?

Of course it is.  It reminds me of those stranded bridges that governments used to build across new highways, just sitting up there with no road continuing on either side.  there would be a big sign:  "These bridges save you money."  And they did.  It is a lot cheaper to build a bridge over a road that is not yet completed than to go in there later on. 

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1 hour ago, William Edwards said:

And how does the industry force OPEC to shut in a million barrels a day that they do not wish to give up? By undercutting the price.

Of course that is correct.  To put a fine point to it, the industry offers a competing product with parallel specifications to the market at a lower price than that offered by the OPEC crowd.  Either OPEC drops the price, or it drops out.  You keep offering product to buyers until someone quits.  You can keep offering as long as you are prepared to "put money on the table," by dropping price.  I used to do that all day long against my competitors in industry.  I would brutally drop price, even to well below production cost, just to drive the competitors out of the market and vanquish them.  Once they had quit and I had established the clients, then I would let the price creep back up.  Worked every single time.

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On 1/6/2019 at 8:46 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

I'll try to behave myself in this thread and keep it strictly about U.S. Shale Oil and its overproduction.   Wish me luck : )

 

What, no memes? 

Tom, you already know that you cannot restrain yourself, we all wait with bated breath!   "Hit me!" as they say in that card game.

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Jan, I agree with you on the it is a lot cheaper to build the bridge now scenario. I had a civil engineer friend tell me years ago that half the cost of upgrading the capacity of a roadway was in just keeping the traffic flowing while under construction. Am interested in your thoughts on the DUC count though. I work in the industry on the drilling side and the DUCs are unsettling to me as almost a source of competition. I feel like we are trying to work ourselves out of a job if that count doesn't go down soon. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 1:30 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

 

If some smart person can come up with a new financial model for the U.S. Shale Oil industry, and implement it, they would become insanely rich.  I hope this actually happens.

 

I figured that one out. 

Implementing is a different matter.  You have to convince others to actually listen, and this is pretty much impossible.  I call that the "rust principle."  the ship stays afloat because of the rust, which has been there "forever."  Plus, I don't get paid to advise them, so let them figure it out by themselves. 

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39 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

And I am one of those Disruptors.   I intend to develop and market a simple add-on for automobiles, bolted onto a training support carriage with an extra close-coupled two wheels to avoid handling and tire-load issues, a small Converter that will generate  pyrolized wood gas into  a direct burn fuel.  Run a hose under the car chassis from the rear and feed it into the air intake through a throttle-body valve, and you have instant switch-over from gasoline to wood gas.  

The motive for this is the up-coming drive towards a huge carbon tax in Vermont.  The far-left ultra-leftists are proposing a carbon tax of a dollar a gallon, including on heating oil and propane.  Vermont is a poor rural State; the median income is $14.42/hour. The far-leftists that have seized control of the Legislature in the last election cycle now have the votes to override the Governor's Veto, so I anticipate it is only a matter of time.  My wood gas generator is cheap and easy to fabricate and retro-fit, so then the poorer people in the countryside can drop shredded wood into the pyrolyzer chamber, generate their gas, and drive for free.  It should be a huge hit. Especially as you can go scavenge wood in the forest, of which Vermont has lots.

It may surprise readers to learn that such wood machines were dominant in Europe during WWII.  For example, some 95% of all Danish IC engines were converted and ran on wood gas.  That includes farm tractors, cars, trucks, and fishing boats.  All the oil was scooped up by the Wehrmacht for the war effort.  The Danes went over to wood gas.  So did the Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, anywhere there was wood available. 

My other oil-competing project involves a direct drop-in replacement for the IC engine.  When the old motor is disintegrated, instead of spending $4K for a rebuilt and swap, you pull the motor package out and drop in a flash steam boiler package. You can develop all the power you want for your old heap; want 1,000 hp for that 1956 pick-up?  Not an issue.  Use my steam engine.  

And that is how you deal with the Leftists and their crazy carbon-tax ideas.  You out-flank them with technology.

Look this up first: 'Hydrothermal carbonization'.

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(edited)

On 1/20/2019 at 2:47 PM, MUI said:

Jan, I agree with you on the it is a lot cheaper to build the bridge now scenario. I had a civil engineer friend tell me years ago that half the cost of upgrading the capacity of a roadway was in just keeping the traffic flowing while under construction. Am interested in your thoughts on the DUC count though. I work in the industry on the drilling side and the DUCs are unsettling to me as almost a source of competition. I feel like we are trying to work ourselves out of a job if that count doesn't go down soon. 

Relax, your job is going to be there.  

Those guys are drilling and shutting in mostly because they understand that that gas they are developing has a huge value.  There is no take-away (yet) so those drilled wells will wait until the gas pipe is there, then the operators will spend the final amount to finish the oil part and add the connection to the pipeline for the gas part.  Those operator guys are not totally stupid, and the "debt treadmill" is not a good analogy. 

Lots of operations out in the Patch are financed by speculative capital looking for a home.  You get some dentist in New Jersey with a spare 100,000 and he is being offered returns of 1% in conventional homes for his money.  He gets called up by some operator located in say Tennessee who wants to drill into some coal seam that also has proven gas.  He puts in the cash.  Now the operator gets the results, has his gas and coal proven, and shuts it in.  He tells the investor that they will not complete until the pipeline is built before extracting anything, as that pipe will take the gas and the gas is worth serious money.  The dentist in NJ is content with that, because he sees (correctly) an additional flush of cash down the road, when he finally retires.  So, as they say, "money in the bank." Who cares if they never develop the market for that coal?  The gas alone will make him a nice income stream, think of it as buying a future annuity. 

That coal will of course end up developed.  Coal converted into diesel and jetfuel is remarkably pure stuff.  Eventually it will command a market premium .  Diesel from coal can have a cetane rating of 75, which is a very very long way from 42, what you now get at the pump. So the dentist is a lot smarter than the guys you are dealing with in the oilpatch.  He understands the concept of deferred returns. 

The same is true with oil.  The capital is there today because returns on capital are dismal.  That money needs to be placed where it can develop a hefty return, "someday."  The rigs and personnel are available today, and as has been pointed out, will not be there tomorrow. So there is that stagnant capital, and existing supplies of machinery and labor.  The spot drilling continues. 

Does it all get used down the road?  Of course it does.  That gas is for competing with Russia.  The gasoline and diesel are sold at a good mark-up to Europe  (which wants to get away from Russia, except for Merkel, who is a moron).  It is all a future annuity for that dentist from New Jersey.  And he is smart enough to have figured that out. 

Edited by Jan van Eck
scrivener error
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11 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

Look this up first: 'Hydrothermal carbonization'.

Here is the problem with that:  you need fancy equipment and process understanding, which is not conducible to home brewing, and the end product, if done commerically, again becomes a "carbon fuel" and likely to be heavily taxed by the insane Leftists who have this vision of big windmill propellors on the ridge lines charging up batteries.  

The home system of a wood gasifier works for everyone as you can simply go dump in bits of wood, twigs, pieces of tree branch, wood pellets, whatever.  It gets out from underneath the tax regimes of the Far Left.  It is available everywhere in the rural areas, so no running out of fuel.  You have this gasification chamber, you charge it up with wood particles, light it up, and go drive.  No taxman.  No inspector saying "You may NOT!"  

I actually had a bureaucrat write this to me, about a use of my property to put up a small band saw to saw some wood for a new floor in my house:

  

This is a Planned Residential area and even though this would be a “temporary” set up I would NOT allow this.  This is considered Light Manufacturing and not allowed in the Planned Residential neighborhood.

This is what happens when the Far Left gets into positions of authority.  The crazy Leftist authority-freaks will wreck everything, before it even gets off the ground.  That "NOT" was in bold print and capital letters in the original message to me. 

This was my response, with a copy to the town Mayor, who was struggling to find an extra 50,000 to balance his budget (he was unsuccessful).:

----------------------------------

I would advise that I was invited to move to Vermont by your Governor, for the purpose of setting up a manufacturing plant here.  My specific proposal was that, at the point that the plant developed a net sales level of $66 million, I would contribute $3 million per year to the host community for the specific purpose of funding general tax reduction and to provide a slush fund for un-budgeted wants including library and schools enhancements.  That funding would be no-strings-attached. 

Given your response to a rather mild accommodation, and the general tenor of your mail, I have to conclude that you are by nature and personality a difficult woman with whom I am never going to get along, and you will, by officious bureaucratese, continue to engage in conflict with whatever I might have in mind.  Thus there is no point in my moving to (your town) and I now abandon that project.  You will appreciate, of course, that the plant will not be sited in (your town), either. 

Regards,
Jan van Eck

-------------------------------

The Mayor was not pleased with her performance.  That is a big wad of cash they don't get to see.  You defeat your enemies by making it expensive for them.  Same in oil sales contests.  It is, in the end, all politics. 

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4 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Absolutely!! Dilling and frackin' faster than takeaway. As I said before on diff thread. when I was working for crappy drilling co. we were north of Andrews Tx and we were drilling 11960 feet per hole in proven field. Every 8 days we were "spudding" in. That was in 83, the rigs of today take less man power to operate and are much faster to 8 to 10k feet. Directional drilling is a fine art and they've improved vastly so wells don't cost what they used to back in early 80's. When Reagan did the windfall profits tax the drilling industry got essentially killed. Went from "contract" drilling to "by the foot". Most operators went belly up. Every drilling company I worked for back then is not in existence now. 

Hittin' the road, 

me.ride.jpg

nice ride...

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4 hours ago, bmp344@gmail.com said:

I am a physician who has spent most of my life saving children's lives. My colleagues referred to me as a specialist in the last 15 minutes of life with the goal of always giving my best effort to convert that 15 minutes into 70+ years. 

I have always had a very strong interest in all sources of energy, including fossil fuels, nuclear, hydroelectric, wind, our sun, and  even interstellar effects on earth's climate. Open to and interested in all scientific data and points of view.

Well Doc...welcome..........

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4 hours ago, AcK said:

You are right it doesnt - my point was in response to the view that OPEC should have cut more (2mbd versus 1mbd ex-Russia announced). OPEC is just bringing 2019E production back to 2017 levels - adjusted for Iran and Venezuela (where production has gone down massively for very different reasons). Incremental demand (1.5mbd/annum) is being met by other countries (US primarily). Point being if OPEC cuts another 1mbd (over an above the cut already announced for Jan), then we are talking crude at US$100.

You wrote "adjusted for Iran and Venezuela"..

Is there an adjustment for Qatar ?

And where would it fall ?

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2 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

And I am one of those Disruptors.   I intend to develop and market a simple add-on for automobiles, bolted onto a training support carriage with an extra close-coupled two wheels to avoid handling and tire-load issues, a small Converter that will generate  pyrolized wood gas into  a direct burn fuel.  Run a hose under the car chassis from the rear and feed it into the air intake through a throttle-body valve, and you have instant switch-over from gasoline to wood gas.  

The motive for this is the up-coming drive towards a huge carbon tax in Vermont.  The far-left ultra-leftists are proposing a carbon tax of a dollar a gallon, including on heating oil and propane.  Vermont is a poor rural State; the median income is $14.42/hour. The far-leftists that have seized control of the Legislature in the last election cycle now have the votes to override the Governor's Veto, so I anticipate it is only a matter of time.  My wood gas generator is cheap and easy to fabricate and retro-fit, so then the poorer people in the countryside can drop shredded wood into the pyrolyzer chamber, generate their gas, and drive for free.  It should be a huge hit. Especially as you can go scavenge wood in the forest, of which Vermont has lots.

It may surprise readers to learn that such wood machines were dominant in Europe during WWII.  For example, some 95% of all Danish IC engines were converted and ran on wood gas.  That includes farm tractors, cars, trucks, and fishing boats.  All the oil was scooped up by the Wehrmacht for the war effort.  The Danes went over to wood gas.  So did the Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, anywhere there was wood available. 

My other oil-competing project involves a direct drop-in replacement for the IC engine.  When the old motor is disintegrated, instead of spending $4K for a rebuilt and swap, you pull the motor package out and drop in a flash steam boiler package. You can develop all the power you want for your old heap; want 1,000 hp for that 1956 pick-up?  Not an issue.  Use my steam engine.  

And that is how you deal with the Leftists and their crazy carbon-tax ideas.  You out-flank them with technology.

Were it not for the fact that i don't have the money to pay you,  i would be interested in both machines.

The wood-gas for the car would be good...  although is there a particular type of wood that it needs ?

As for the steam engine,  i would hook it up to a generator instead,  and set it up as a backup generator for the house...

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1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

Relax, your job is going to be there.  

Those guys re drilling and shutting in mostly because they understand that that gas they are developing has a huge value.  There is no take-away (yet) so those drilled wells will wait until the gas pipe is there, then the operators will spend the final amount to finish the oil part and add the connection to the pipeline for the gas part.  Those operator guys are not totally stupid, and the "debt treadmill" is not a good analogy. 

Lots of operations out in the Patch are financed by speculative capital looking for a home.  You get some dentist in New Jersey with a spare 100,000 and he is being offered returns of 1% in conventional homes for his money.  He gets called up by some operator located in say Tennessee who wants to drill into some coal seam that also has proven gas.  He puts in the cash.  Now the operator gets the results, has his gas and coal proven, and shuts it in.  He tells the investor that they will not complete until the pipeline is built before extracting anything, as that pipe will take the gas and the gas is worth serious money.  The dentist in NJ is content with that, because he sees (correctly) an additional flush of cash down the road, when he finally retires.  So, as they way, "money in the bank." Who cares if they never develop the market for that coal?  The gas alone will make him a nice income stream,think of it as buying a future annuity. 

That coal will of course end up developed.  Coal converted into diesel and jetfuel is remarkably pure stuff.  Eventually it will command a market premium .  Diesel from coal can have a cetane rating of 75, which is a very very long way from 42, what you new get at the pump. So the dentist is a lot smarter than the guys you are dealing with in the oilpatch.  He understands the concept of deferred returns. 

The same is true with oil.  The capital is there today because returns on capital are dismal.  That money needs to be placed where it can develop a hefty return, "someday."  The rigs and personnel are available today, and as been pointed out, will not be there tomorrow. So there is that stagnant capital, and existing supplies of machinery and labor.  The spot drilling continues. 

Does it all get used down the road?  Of course it does.  That gas is for competing with Russia.  The gasoline and diesel are sold at a good mark-up to Europe  (which wants to get away from Russia, except for Merkel, who is a moron).  It is all a future annuity for that dentist from New Jersey.  ANd he is smart enough to have figured that out. 

interesting that you said that..

this out today:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/01/19/the-us-strikes-back-against-russias-european-gas-empire/

 

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(edited)

43 minutes ago, Illurion said:

The wood-gas for the car would be good...  although is there a particular type of wood that it needs ?

As for the steam engine,  i would hook it up to a generator instead,  and set it up as a backup generator for the house...

Nope, any wood that burns first creates the wood-gas, then it is the wood gas that is actually burning.  You can demonstrate this to yourself by lighting a match and noting that there is this small gap between the base of the flame and the wood.  What is happening is that the wood is pyrolyzing and producing gas, and that gas ignites when it finds enough air.  So you can use any kind of wood, as long as it is dry, of course. 

And that is the beauty of such a machine.  You can fuel it from the deadwood lying on the side of the road.  Now, typically, you are likely not to get much over 35 mph from a typically-sized gasifier, but that is plenty to propel your car nicely along the road.  A steam engine will do much better, of course, that is the nature of steam.  But a gasifier is cheap to build, most in WWII were hammered together out of whatever scrap was lying around, and they will work on just about anything.  

For a serious gasifier, you would likely run it on wood pellets and add some sort of feeder to it, but that is just to be fancy.  In practice in WWII folks ran those things on whatever they could scrounge.  What makes the gasifier so neat is that it totally frustrates the hard-Left radicals that want to take over your life and convert you into an impotent slave.  And that is nice. The ultimate democratization of fuel is the ability to go stroll alongside the road or into the woods and pick up whatever you want, and use it to drive your auto.  How is the Hard Left going to stop you?  Or tax you? They cannot.  You win.

Edited by Jan van Eck

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3 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Here is the problem with that:  you need fancy equipment and process understanding, which is not conducible to home brewing, and the end product, if done commerically, again becomes a "carbon fuel" and likely to be heavily taxed by the insane Leftists who have this vision of big windmill propellors on the ridge lines charging up batteries....

The point of 'Hydrothermal carbonization' is that there are better technologies available than those known about in the 1940's. This is particularly the case if one can use embedded controllers to manage the process - at that point it can run largely unattended.

If fruitcake left-wingers aren't going to let you saw wood, they aren't going to let you drive around with a gasifier either. I've read in various places that Vermont's heavy use of wood buring stoves is creating unusual levels of respriatory problems for citizens of the state. Supposedly 100% of Vermont's electricity comes from 'green' energy sources, but I don't know what form that takes, and I don't know if burning wood to keep warm is 'green'.

I'm from states (Texas and Florida) where a $66 million factory wouldn't get you an audience with the governor. I'm sure it would get the attention of elected officials in Alaska or Wyoming (the other bottom ranked states in population).

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4 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

What, no memes? 

Tom, you already know that you cannot restrain yourself, we all wait with bated breath!   "Hit me!" as they say in that card game.

Okey dokey, feel free to caption this:

20190121_080807.jpg

 

And some random memes, for amusement:

c006f938d67441b6e4097f69344e92a9a7f66f9d182826ebf18db418fd5b0b55.jpg

575e813a45f955e898daa14c3bd20f203275cb9ab6436f63ebb1a587c47820ea.png

ca3615c6e65f6419377119f30c40499e1ec3da76d22076a91d636dab5aba675b.png

e1bd4b353b9f64dd8e49d180ca6c6cf1566089f75ff541cf972eef631720fb9b.jpg

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48 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Okey dokey, feel free to caption this:

20190121_080807.jpg

HA!  I knew you could not resist!

And some random memes, for amusement:

c006f938d67441b6e4097f69344e92a9a7f66f9d182826ebf18db418fd5b0b55.jpg

HYSTERICAL!   Hey, at least those are first-class, er, "uniforms"!

48 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

e1bd4b353b9f64dd8e49d180ca6c6cf1566089f75ff541cf972eef631720fb9b.jpg

Hurrah!   You just hit Platinum Grade!

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(edited)

On 1/20/2019 at 7:14 PM, Meredith Poor said:

The point of 'Hydrothermal carbonization' is that there are better technologies available than those known about in the 1940's. This is particularly the case if one can use embedded controllers to manage the process - at that point it can run largely unattended.

If fruitcake left-wingers aren't going to let you saw wood, they aren't going to let you drive around with a gasifier either. I've read in various places that Vermont's heavy use of wood burning stoves is creating unusual levels of respiratory problems for citizens of the state. Supposedly 100% of Vermont's electricity comes from 'green' energy sources, but I don't know what form that takes, and I don't know if burning wood to keep warm is 'green'.

I'm from states (Texas and Florida) where a $66 million factory wouldn't get you an audience with the governor. I'm sure it would get the attention of elected officials in Alaska or Wyoming (the other bottom ranked states in population).

All true, Miss Meredith.  And that is why I do not live in Texas or Florida.  Texas will likely continue, as it has Dallas as its big dynamic city.  Florida, I suspect will eventually collapse.  You are correct in observing that the North Country has high levels of particulates and "smog" caused by wood-burning stoves. The reason is that the valleys are steep-sided and North-South, while the winds tend to be East-West, so the smoke has this tendency to settle in the valleys.  Hard on the asthma. 

I have long ago learned not to live in areas where my efforts are not embraced and appreciated by the local, particularly local politicians.  Hey, you don't like me,you don't like my ideas, I don't contribute in your town. Sayonara, my parting shot. There is nothing to stop me from moving across that border into upper New Hampshire, or for that matter across that Northern Border up into Quebec.  

Edited by Jan van Eck
capitalization needed

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9 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

There are flares for a reason. They aren't just burning off excess gas. In the event of a hiccup with H2S gas it is burned off immediately. Or you'd rather see more oil-field related deaths? I agree there could be a better way, my preferred choice would make small but quality boiler system with generator and as flares burns, creates 'lectricity. Now I am no genius by any means but 24/7 flaring I believe it could work. But remember what the flares intended purpose is for. Safety of workers and refinery. Read on H2s gas. Very deadly and ever present from Artesia/Loco Hills, NM to Andrews,TX down to McCamey,TX to Balmorhea, TX.

It is part of the process of Natural Gas production, and legislating morality doesn't work. In December the plants in West Texas were paying .15c cf to help get rid of the excess'. Flaring sometimes is the cost effective way to get rid of. If your sitting behind a desk in say Boston it is easy to say we should do this/that. Practicality and common sense prevails. Just like them wind generators that eye pollute the beauty of this country down here. It's been proven that the cost to generate electricity per cost of each unit and infrastructure takes 15 years or so to pay for themselves. If it wasn't for the gov'ment giving credits you'd never see em spinning. They spin till required amount mandated by law is bought then shut down and no spin. Ain't America great!!! Let's mandate them flares too, they are a real pollution source!! Mt. St. Hellen is still puking out obnoxious fumes than most the cars in US. Let's figure a way to make the lefties put a catalytic converter on that. Rant over

 

I realize that some initial flaring may be necessary but there are alternatives to most flaring. The main way is to set up equipment to filter the gas onsite. In some cases, the natural gas itself can be used to run equipment or to produce electricity. Natural gas can be compressed and shipped by truck or train or pipeline. It can also be liquified and sold to liquified gas stations or other users. Of course, the safety of workers is paramount but continuous flaring is not acceptable IMHO. 

References 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_process

Claus_Sulfur_Recovery.png

https://www.hexion.com/en-US/industry/oil-and-gas/production-chemicals/hydrogen-sulfide-scavengers/

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I realize that some initial flaring may be necessary but there are alternatives to most flaring. The main way is to set up equipment to filter the gas onsite. In some cases, the natural gas itself can be used to run equipment or to produce electricity. Natural gas can be compressed and shipped by truck or train or pipeline. It can also be liquified and sold to liquified gas stations or other users. Of course, the safety of workers is paramount but continuous flaring is not acceptable IMHO. 

References 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_process

Claus_Sulfur_Recovery.png

https://www.hexion.com/en-US/industry/oil-and-gas/production-chemicals/hydrogen-sulfide-scavengers/

 

 

 

I understand what your saying. A inexpensive boiler generator on permanent gas plants seems logical and possibly offset their energy usage tab, but I truly think if it was viable in any manner of capturing the gas it would have been done. Oil companies like most business' don't like throwing money away. I will research what I can as I really don't know anyone working in that phase of manufacturing. Today I saw hundreds literally of new wells flaring gas. Small flame is just the ignitor. Big orange flames are gas coming off the new wellhead. 

flares.jpg

flares2.jpg

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9 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

 

Well, intelligence will get you so far in life, I found my emloyees with common sense much more attractive as an attribute than a college grad. that's think they know all. And Rich and Poor is a just tag ppl use. Some of the Richest men in this country have no class. They are just wealthy by way having a lot of wealth. Poor folks I can relate too better than rich folks. 

Todays ride will be up into NM via back roads. Loving, Nm is 3 hour each way. I know there is a flurry of activity still going on there. My new neighbor is a welder/pusher for small company working on NG plant near Coyanosa, Tx. If one was to judge the economy by how many new RV parks there is here in West Texas, it would blow the mind. 5 yrs ago Ft Stockton had 2 small parks 20 or less, 1 medium one 50 space and not all full, and one large 100 space. Now there is about 25 rv parks and almost all are full up with oil field workers. Times are good for today lol.

We drove by Fort Stockton and up to Ruidoso N.M. two years ago. It was great to see all the fracking going on. 

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