Socialists want to exorcise the O&G demon by 2030

(edited)

Just throwing this in as the main reason for America's recent drop in longevity. http://fortune.com/2018/02/09/us-life-expectancy-dropped-again/ Part of this is Darwinian selection but much can be blamed on Doctors who happily overprescribe opioids because it makes them so much money and builds their business. Why it has been allowed to go this far is criminal and involves people in very high places. I was a psychiatric RN MA for 20 years after three years as an army medic. It is far more prevalent now than ever and the fentanyl epidemic has made it much worse.

Here is my topic on Drug Use and Abuse https://docs.google.com/document/d/17hjQGTucmxIxip1yMIucQFYngWee0CaHulGykt1yGBg/edit

Edited by ronwagn
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On 1/14/2019 at 4:51 PM, Jeff_Calgary said:

'America is already spending much more than it should on government programs of all kinds. To add any more government spending is foolish IMHO.' 

Canada system costs 2/3 of the US system and covers everyone plus has better outcomes. (Do some googling -it is true!) You will not run into any Canadians that want your system. I consider 'Freedom of Worry' to be the best 'freedom'. Europe seems to think the same way.

The car is broken, you need a car, fix the car or buy a new one. Seems neither is happening -but you are talking about going to Mars.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/bacchus-barua-/wait-times-canada_b_5505110.html

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/doctors-concerned-legalization-of-suicide-eliminates-health-care-choices

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/when-it-comes-to-waiting-canada-is-last-in-line-2/

Edited by ronwagn
added reference

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On 1/14/2019 at 8:37 AM, Marina Schwarz said:

No such thing as free healthcare, the money just comes from taxes, so yeah, that will be tricky, not to mention the free college education. I suggest Cortez studies the Scandinavian healthcare systems. Not sure if college education is free there, though. @Rasmus Jorgensen should weigh in.

There is also a right and a wrong way to go about the free healthcare system. The wrong way is to have a package that covers a range of services but you don't get them immediately. Example: My brother-in-law got the flu, wanted to see an otolaryngologist, was told he had to wait for a month for an appointment or he could pay and get an appointment immediately. That's in Romania. Same here. Unless you're referred to a specialist from ER, you either wait till you get better or die, or you pay. So good luck making it work for a country as huge as the U.S.

I don't really think anybody, not even real socialists, thinks that anything is free if that is what you are implying. This discussion is about return of investment. How does society best invest their money? We had that discussion numerous times, but I never seem to convince anyone. 

 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen
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On 1/14/2019 at 4:02 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

Scary bedtime story worth reading.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee about the evil stupidity that is inexorably heading our way.

Doug Casey on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

America can’t stop talking about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC).

AOC, if you haven’t heard, is a 29-year-old democratic socialist. Earlier this month, she became the youngest woman ever elected to Congress.

And that concerns me. I say this because her platform is every socialist’s dream. She wants Medicare to be free. She wants college education to be free. She wants to cancel student debt. She wants to hike the minimum wage to $15. And she wants to replace oil and gas with green energy by 2030.

Now, I realize these ideas might sound good to some people. But none of this would come free. It would require massive tax hikes and a lot more national debt. In short, she’s advocating for policies that often destroy entire economies.

Yet, she’s one of today’s most popular political figures.

I wanted to see what Casey Research founder Doug Casey thinks of AOC and her policies. So I got him on the phone to discuss his thoughts for this week’s Conversations With Casey…

yeah... Universal healthcare and free education has truely wrecked havoc on Scandinavia... 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen
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9 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I don't really think anybody, not even real socialists, thinks that anything is free if that is what you are implying. This discussion is about return of investment. How does society best invest their money? We had that discussion numerous times, but I never seem to convince anyone. 

 

I apologise. I wasn't implying anything. I simply asked for a first-hand account of how the healthcare and educational systems work in Denmark. I don't believe anyone with an ounce of common sense would believe any service can be actually free, even the farthest-left activists.

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28 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

I apologise. I wasn't implying anything. I simply asked for a first-hand account of how the healthcare and educational systems work in Denmark. I don't believe anyone with an ounce of common sense would believe any service can be actually free, even the farthest-left activists.

Sorry. A bit stressed at the moment. 

In short I think the overlooked factors in the discussion of universal healthcare and free education, subsidized child care, welfare etc is the longterm economic benefit as evidenced by Scandinavia and maybe more importantly the social stabillity. A balance needs to be found - it is easy to take it too far, but there are no denying the "results" in scandinavia. 

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No worries, I understand. Thanks! These things do tend to evolve over a longer period of time than a single term of presidency/parliament/Congress/whatever.

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The health care for all plan proposed by the Democrats will include price controls and more and more time by doctors to report to the government on their patient wait times, outcomes, etc.  Just today doctors here have said they are burning out with the government regulations required by them to report and update their medical records every day.     If price controls are mandated as the Democrats wish, doctors will either retire, change jobs into research for example, or leave for places where they can have freedom to practice and make a profit.  Australia was an example of socialized medicine, but they have a mixed system of private and government and doctors make money.  What the Democrats propose is nothing but control.  Obamacare was the first shot across the bow to take over health care through insurance.  After 4 years we find that healthy people didn't get insurance and paid the fines to the government.  Me, I lost my doctor and my insurance 1 month after Obamacare went into effect.  I got another doctor and insurance but my deductible was $5,000.  I'm now on Medicare.  I just got my tax statement since they tax Social Security by the way.  I paid $6,000 last year for Medicare and another $2,000 for supplemental insurance and add'l costs for a prescription plan.  I look at the VA as the standard for a government run health care system and to spread that inept, timeconsuming, healthcare system on the country will be a boondoggle.  Doctors?  Unless they can find another way to make a living, Australia will look pretty good.

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23 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Yes-because everyone is covered we have moved on to bitch about wait times. None of those articles suggest going private -just make our system even better than it is. That lifesitenews is not an info source-it is propaganda. 

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5 hours ago, JoMack said:

The health care for all plan proposed by the Democrats will include price controls and more and more time by doctors to report to the government on their patient wait times, outcomes, etc.  Just today doctors here have said they are burning out with the government regulations required by them to report and update their medical records every day.     If price controls are mandated as the Democrats wish, doctors will either retire, change jobs into research for example, or leave for places where they can have freedom to practice and make a profit.  Australia was an example of socialized medicine, but they have a mixed system of private and government and doctors make money.  What the Democrats propose is nothing but control.  Obamacare was the first shot across the bow to take over health care through insurance.  After 4 years we find that healthy people didn't get insurance and paid the fines to the government.  Me, I lost my doctor and my insurance 1 month after Obamacare went into effect.  I got another doctor and insurance but my deductible was $5,000.  I'm now on Medicare.  I just got my tax statement since they tax Social Security by the way.  I paid $6,000 last year for Medicare and another $2,000 for supplemental insurance and add'l costs for a prescription plan.  I look at the VA as the standard for a government run health care system and to spread that inept, timeconsuming, healthcare system on the country will be a boondoggle.  Doctors?  Unless they can find another way to make a living, Australia will look pretty good.

I have never seen a complaint by Canadian doctors about paperwork required to get paid. The healthcare provision is still the same as private -just the rates are fixed. The difference is on the insurance side. Our governments provide the coverage (money) and set the rates for procedures. Plus they make it a 'can't jump the line' situation unless the patients health is at risk. Then there is a triage system.

The main point is that European countries and Canada and Australia/NZ that have universal healthcare would never give it up. That says it all. The fact that it is cheaper than the present US system is just icing on the cake.

That young 'socialist' congress woman is very smart for her young age. Hopefully the older folks listen to her. She is idealistic, which makes her a bit unrealistic, but that is a good thing. Get the discussion going and drag a few heads out of the sand. 

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2 hours ago, Jeff_Calgary said:

Yes-because everyone is covered we have moved on to bitch about wait times. None of those articles suggest going private -just make our system even better than it is. That lifesitenews is not an info source-it is propaganda. 

True propaganda though. 

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On 1/14/2019 at 8:37 AM, Marina Schwarz said:

I suggest Cortez studies the Scandinavian healthcare systems. Not sure if college education is free there, though. @Rasmus Jorgensen should weigh in.

The answer I should have given in the first place: 

Yes, here college 100 % free, as long as qualify academically. Not only that the government pays all students "education support" - approx USD 900 per month. Add to this housing programs, financial support for housing (almost all students qualify); government provided low-interest flexible repayment student loans... the thinking behind these programs are that it is not enough the education is available - for some talented people there can be financial barriers and if the rigth talents aren't given a chance to develop then society loses. 

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Smart approach. I think it was similar in France? High entry barrier but easier and largely free once you're in. And I expect you need to maintain a certain level of achievement throughout your studies to make the best use of all these resources made available to you.

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2 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

Smart approach. I think it was similar in France? High entry barrier but easier and largely free once you're in. And I expect you need to maintain a certain level of achievement throughout your studies to make the best use of all these resources made available to you.

our system is far from perfect. There a many examples of people taking changing track 2, 3 or 4 times because they can. Or other EU citizens coming here to study and then leaving etc. 

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No system is perfect but some are better than others.

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(edited)

On 1/14/2019 at 10:05 AM, Jeff_Calgary said:

I always marvel at the how the US collectively thinks. You have Medicare and Medicaid - so the old and the sick are already taken care of by your taxes yet you don't think the rest of the healthy people -who will one day be old and sick -should pay. That is kind of silly.

If I was king - I would spend more money on making your old age medicare work more efficiently. I would have society work to perfect that part of the system. Then, over time, I would slowly bring down the age that it kicks in -until you are all covered.

One of my sons worked in California last year so I filed his California/Federal taxes and also his Alberta/Federal taxes. The California taxes were higher so he ended up with a tax credit in Canada. So the California taxes were higher and did not include his healthcare and yet in Canada he is fully covered.

I also marvel at how Republican voters seem to not want healthcare and vote against it. If they are rich Republicans with a good company plan I can understand and yet the poor folks vote that way as well.

American voters all have to give up being Democrats and Republicans (for life it seems) and start voting based on what the party is offering and how it affects you personally and your family. You need to all start being independents -then the democracy actually will work.

In Canada we have more than two parties and can have minority governments and that seems to make everything into shades of grey which seems to work better that the two party system which seems either black or white.

Canada under Macron is a joke to me. He can't seem to get anything done. The economy is declining due to the constant obstruction of the oil and gas industry. Real estate prices are sky high. I would be ashamed of what is going on in Canada. 

See https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/a-top-performing-hedge-fund-is-shorting-canada-banks-on-housing

https://www.narcity.com/news/experts-say-that-canada-is-at-risk-of-experiencing-a-recession-in-2019

1 Canadian Dollar equals
0.75 United States Dollar
Edited by ronwagn
added reference
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The medical profession is one of the most educated. So how do many doctors make money displaying those skills? Let’s say you have had diabetes for years. You must have a blood test to renew your prescriptions. The blood test confirms no adjustment to meds are needed. $50 for the test and $50 for a doctor to read the blood test results.

Now take that $50 x every 5 months. Take that by the 30 million or so that can read a test result.

Now shall we move on to high blood pressure? Were responsible for our own tests daily. Yet once again a $50 visit is required to get a pill. A buddy had to go in every month. 

I am not that impressed with the brightest among us creating a system that rewards them by law to make money pushing genetics that run $12 for a 90 day supply

Where is capitalism that will hire an illegal and do my test for $30. Where is my government that allows test results to be my prescription.

 

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On 1/14/2019 at 7:37 AM, Marina Schwarz said:

No such thing as free healthcare, the money just comes from taxes, so yeah, that will be tricky, not to mention the free college education. I suggest Cortez studies the Scandinavian healthcare systems. Not sure if college education is free there, though. @Rasmus Jorgensen should weigh in.

There is also a right and a wrong way to go about the free healthcare system. The wrong way is to have a package that covers a range of services but you don't get them immediately. Example: My brother-in-law got the flu, wanted to see an otolaryngologist, was told he had to wait for a month for an appointment or he could pay and get an appointment immediately. That's in Romania. Same here. Unless you're referred to a specialist from ER, you either wait till you get better or die, or you pay. So good luck making it work for a country as huge as the U.S.

Who would basically have the same options as your ordinary GP in the case of Flu. Offer Tamiflu or equivalent if in the early stages otherwise advise - plenty of fluids, bed rest, keep warm, paracetamol / ibuprofen if the chills / fever too much to bear. Come back if you develop a chest infection. 

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On 1/17/2019 at 1:11 AM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I don't really think anybody, not even real socialists, thinks that anything is free if that is what you are implying. This discussion is about return of investment. How does society best invest their money? We had that discussion numerous times, but I never seem to convince anyone. 

 

The best system is to let people decide how to pay for their own desired healthcare. There is too much government control. That is why healthcare costs have exploded. I do believe in public health clinics who can give basic care, preventive care, and tell people what they need. I also support not for profit hospitals and charitable medical care of all kinds. Basic medical care should be required in High Schools and Colleges. There nothing more valuable. Jobs in healthcare are varied and numerous. One can start as a nursing assistant and go as far as one is capable. 

See Careers in Nursing https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yCYyMNU6CWLg2vOI2857JsG8WSVhZanAQmeLVzrNkOI/edit

Healthcare Occupations https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/home.htm

Edited by ronwagn
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1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

The best system is to let people decide how to pay for their own desired healthcare. There is too much government control. That is why healthcare costs have exploded. I do believe in public health clinics who can give basic care, preventive care, and tell people what they need. I also support not for profit hospitals and charitable medical care of all kinds. Basic medical care should be required in High Schools and Colleges. There nothing more valuable. Jobs in healthcare are varied and numerous. One can start as a nursing assistant and go as far as one is capable. 

See Careers in Nursing https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yCYyMNU6CWLg2vOI2857JsG8WSVhZanAQmeLVzrNkOI/edit

Healthcare Occupations https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/home.htm

I tried to make sense of your post.

We have universal health care - medicare - and costs are not exploding.  

You support elements of basic medical care, but these costs are borne somewhere.  Universal health care systems will certainly cost more than fragmented systems that you propose, but they will also be administratively simple and not preclude treatment due to "affordability".  The prevention better than cure mantra is also a cheaper outcome to system as a whole, as well as GDP by reducing potential sick days.

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On 1/19/2019 at 12:21 AM, ronwagn said:

Canada under Macron is a joke to me. He can't seem to get anything done. The economy is declining due to the constant obstruction of the oil and gas industry. Real estate prices are sky high. I would be ashamed of what is going on in Canada. 

See https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/a-top-performing-hedge-fund-is-shorting-canada-banks-on-housing

https://www.narcity.com/news/experts-say-that-canada-is-at-risk-of-experiencing-a-recession-in-2019

1 Canadian Dollar equals
0.75 United States Dollar

Yes  -Macron is doing terrible running Canada.

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On 1/20/2019 at 1:18 AM, NickW said:

Who would basically have the same options as your ordinary GP in the case of Flu. Offer Tamiflu or equivalent if in the early stages otherwise advise - plenty of fluids, bed rest, keep warm, paracetamol / ibuprofen if the chills / fever too much to bear. Come back if you develop a chest infection. 

It may have been the infection stage, I guess, for him to seek medical advice. Which makes this sort of system even worse.

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On 1/17/2019 at 1:11 AM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I don't really think anybody, not even real socialists, thinks that anything is free if that is what you are implying. This discussion is about return of investment. How does society best invest their money? We had that discussion numerous times, but I never seem to convince anyone. 

 

Society doesn't make money it takes it from the people. In a Republic or Democracy, the people decide the taxation and where the money is spent. 

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9 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Society doesn't make money it takes it from the people. In a Republic or Democracy, the people decide the taxation and where the money is spent. 

I think we are splitting hairs here, but I would like to ask a question : If my house (my investment) goes up in value, because society gets richer i.e. society have initiated policies that encourage investment, social stabillity, economic growth etc.... did I make that money? 

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