UK, Stay in EU, Says Tusk

[Michael Jones + 34]

Lets imagine what it would look like on March 30th 2019.  The UK has exited the EU.  What actually will happen?  Will people, goods and services stop?  No.  In this scenario changes will only occur if the countries start to implement laws and checks at borders if that is what they want to do.  The EU wont like it if the UK is still party to the customs union so will need to put in place tariffs and then the UK can react. This has not been an issue when you see how the USA and China have done this over the past 6 months. 

Movement of people?  Already there are passport checks at borders between UK and Europe (apart from the Irish border).  From March 30th 2019 the UK and European countries will need to decide if there needs to be a visa stamped and if so for how long will they get to stay. For people living and working in the UK already the only concern would be overstaying and reentry after they left for say a visit.  All easily manageable.  The Irish border has become the main sticking point.  But again no one wants a border the issue here again is the customs union aspect.  Go hard Brexit and just be surprised.  

May negotiated this backwards.  Hard Brexit should have been the starting point.  Europe.  You want something else then come up with a proposal.  

The British people have demonstrated even over the past 50 yrs with the loss of coal mining, steel and ship building etc that they are  resilient, adaptable and creative. Have developed new industries and technologies to replace them.  Many, including my own father, fought tyranny which nearly destroyed Europe.  We are strong and resilient Nation, we will overcome once again any challenge thrown at us from across the English Channel including those un-elected, arrogant, officials strutting around the streets of Europe. God Save the Queen.

[Epic + 390]

On 1/16/2019 at 6:09 PM, WaytoPeace said:

Although the British voted 52% to leave the EU, that is sort of like a couple agreeing to buy a house.  It looks good and seems to meet their needs, but then comes the inspection report.  All of a sudden it becomes clear that the necessary repairs are going to cost a lot more than the couple ever imagined.  Of course, they should be given the opportunity to change their minds.  Polls show that more voters would prefer to stay in the EU than would want a hard exit, or even the deal that May was able to negotiate.  They should try one last time to get a better deal, with a the deadline, and then if they can’t do that have a second referendum and abide by the result.

Incorrect analogy.  It's more like this:  

A couple agrees to buy a house by signing the contract.  The seller, after signing the contract for sale, realizes that this was his most profitable rental house.  In an attempt to prevent the sale, the seller then tries to tell the buyers how terrible the house is by pointing out all of the horrible things about the house and how much it will cost to fix, all the while underselling all of the wonderful things this great house has to offer the couple.  He keeps refusing all of the buyer's attempts at moving up the date of closing.  He does all of this in hopes that the buyers will be tricked into backing out of the great deal that they now have at their fingertips.  In a last-ditch effort to prevent the sale, he manipulates the numbers (polls are never wrong, /sarcasm) and plays his best poker face knowing that he has absolutely nothing in his hand.  The only question is whether or not the good people of the UK will fall for his bluff.

Ask yourself this: if Brexit is such a bad deal for the people of the UK, then why is the EU fighting so hard to stop any deal from happening? May should have been shouting the benefits of a hard-Brexit from day one, and then we would have got to watch those EU curs cower like the mongrels they are!  She would have gotten a good deal then.  Now it is too late.  It will either be a hard-brexit or the good people of the UK will be forced to surrender to the mainlanders.  Churchill will be rolling over in his grave if the people allow the latter to happen.  

Also... a "second" referendum?  Seriously?  So when you don't like how the people vote, just keep re-voting until the new media can finally manipulate the people to vote the "right" way.  At that point, you might as well just rig the voting machines and be done with it on the first try.  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 1/15/2019 at 8:01 PM, Marina Schwarz said:

Brexit vote: EU president says UK remaining is only option ‘if a deal is impossible, and no one wants no deal’

"The president of the European Council has dared British politicians to back remaining in the EU after Theresa May’s Brexit deal was voted down by the House of Commons by a historic margin of failure.

After MPs rejected the plan by 432 to 202 Donald Tusk said: “If a deal is impossible, and no one wants no deal, then who will finally have the courage to say what the only positive solution is?”

How about that, eh? Just stay in the family. Problem solved. I must say I feel sorry for Theresa May. She's being put out there as the sole person responsible for everything around Brexit and being mocked savagely for all the failures. It's brutal.

She promised to go ahead with the Brexit. It was the will of the people. She has done every scheming thing she could to give a Brexit in name only. She deserves every bit of criticism she gets IMO. Now it is clean Brexit or blatantly defying the people's vote. A clean Brexit is what was voted on, not some Europhillic deal. 

[Illurion + 894]

On 1/17/2019 at 10:04 PM, Michael Jones said:

Lets imagine what it would look like on March 30th 2019.  The UK has exited the EU.  What actually will happen?  Will people, goods and services stop?  No.  In this scenario changes will only occur if the countries start to implement laws and checks at borders if that is what they want to do.  The EU wont like it if the UK is still party to the customs union so will need to put in place tariffs and then the UK can react. This has not been an issue when you see how the USA and China have done this over the past 6 months. 

Movement of people?  Already there are passport checks at borders between UK and Europe (apart from the Irish border).  From March 30th 2019 the UK and European countries will need to decide if there needs to be a visa stamped and if so for how long will they get to stay. For people living and working in the UK already the only concern would be overstaying and reentry after they left for say a visit.  All easily manageable.  The Irish border has become the main sticking point.  But again no one wants a border the issue here again is the customs union aspect.  Go hard Brexit and just be surprised.  

May negotiated this backwards.  Hard Brexit should have been the starting point.  Europe.  You want something else then come up with a proposal.  

The British people have demonstrated even over the past 50 yrs with the loss of coal mining, steel and ship building etc that they are  resilient, adaptable and creative. Have developed new industries and technologies to replace them.  Many, including my own father, fought tyranny which nearly destroyed Europe.  We are strong and resilient Nation, we will overcome once again any challenge thrown at us from across the English Channel including those un-elected, arrogant, officials strutting around the streets of Europe. God Save the Queen.

Excellent analysis.

Things will just go back to the way they were before the EU was created.

I believe the European mainland needs the UK far more than the UK needs the mainland...

May's Soft-brexit prohibited the UK from negotiating it's own TRADE DEALS to a great extent...

A Hard-brexit leaves the UK free to make all the deals it wants....

As you stated above,  after a hard-brexit,  the UK will do just fine...

[Illurion + 894]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:18 AM, Guillaume Albasini said:

Without a deal the choice will be between a no-deal Brexit and no Brexit at all. And time is seriously running out for a new deal. Given the havoc a no deal Brexit could cause to the British economy I would not rule out a new vote ending with a a different result and a no-Brexit.

Today May will face a no confidence vote but it seems the rebel conservative MPs and the DUP coalition partner who voted against May's Brexit Deal will nevertheless support the government so the numbers are probably not there for an overthrow of the PM.

For those not familiar with UK politics, here is a BBC News graphical explanation on how it works :

 

My 2 cents...

There will be no "havoc" with a no-deal,   all parties will just go back to the way they were before the EU.

Any "havoc" that might occur will probably be caused by the EU side..

No-deal will require "actual - real - negotiations" by the EU nations this time,  and hopefully,  the UK will deal directly with the individual countries,  skipping the EU mafia entirely.

Those countries that refuse to deal directly with the UK,  and hide behind the EU,  will get worse deals than those countries that do not...

As for a new election...  Not needed.   The people already spoke..........

[Illurion + 894]

On 1/16/2019 at 11:46 AM, specinho said:

We might have missed out the long forgotten voice and right of the King and Queen as the highest and ultimate decision makers of the fate of England.............. In a democratic parliamentary system of a monarchy country......... royals reserve the ultimate right to over-rule or approve as they see best fitted for the country. Years of complacent in commoners-turned-nobles assisting goverment........ might have made us forgotten the duty of the royals in monarchy countries............. They might be not merely a symbol of existence but something more especially during important and unsettling dispute that affects the whole country...........

There is a government somewhere in the tropic...... tried to overpower the Monarch by writing off a few of their rights in the parliament not very long ago......... and yes............. back fired................. Not sure if that act has awakened the dormant royals and their desire to be more than a symbol again........................... ??!!........ Why are we going through this?? 

If you are saying that Queen Elizabeth should step up and say she is for fulfilling the vote of the people,  i agree with you.

[Illurion + 894]

On 1/16/2019 at 7:09 PM, WaytoPeace said:

Although the British voted 52% to leave the EU, that is sort of like a couple agreeing to buy a house.  It looks good and seems to meet their needs, but then comes the inspection report.  All of a sudden it becomes clear that the necessary repairs are going to cost a lot more than the couple ever imagined.  Of course, they should be given the opportunity to change their minds.  Polls show that more voters would prefer to stay in the EU than would want a hard exit, or even the deal that May was able to negotiate.  They should try one last time to get a better deal, with a the deadline, and then if they can’t do that have a second referendum and abide by the result.  

I have seen polls both ways...

I don't care about the polls.

The people VOTED..

OBEY THEM..

As for the "inspection report",   WHO INSPECTS THE INSPECTOR ?

IS THE INSPECTOR COMPETENT ?   OR BIASED ?

The UK will be better off with a hard-brexit as far as i am concerned.

[Illurion + 894]

On 1/17/2019 at 11:54 PM, Epic said:

Incorrect analogy.  It's more like this:  

A couple agrees to buy a house by signing the contract.  The seller, after signing the contract for sale, realizes that this was his most profitable rental house.  In an attempt to prevent the sale, the seller then tries to tell the buyers how terrible the house is by pointing out all of the horrible things about the house and how much it will cost to fix, all the while underselling all of the wonderful things this great house has to offer the couple.  He keeps refusing all of the buyer's attempts at moving up the date of closing.  He does all of this in hopes that the buyers will be tricked into backing out of the great deal that they now have at their fingertips.  In a last-ditch effort to prevent the sale, he manipulates the numbers (polls are never wrong, /sarcasm) and plays his best poker face knowing that he has absolutely nothing in his hand.  The only question is whether or not the good people of the UK will fall for his bluff.

Ask yourself this: if Brexit is such a bad deal for the people of the UK, then why is the EU fighting so hard to stop any deal from happening? May should have been shouting the benefits of a hard-Brexit from day one, and then we would have got to watch those EU curs cower like the mongrels they are!  She would have gotten a good deal then.  Now it is too late.  It will either be a hard-brexit or the good people of the UK will be forced to surrender to the mainlanders.  Churchill will be rolling over in his grave if the people allow the latter to happen.  

Also... a "second" referendum?  Seriously?  So when you don't like how the people vote, just keep re-voting until the new media can finally manipulate the people to vote the "right" way.  At that point, you might as well just rig the voting machines and be done with it on the first try.  

WELL STATED.

[jaycee + 348]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:50 PM, TXPower said:

England, sorry Jaycee, the U.K., is made up of strong and resilient people.   She has survived the Northman, some terrible Kings, Plagues, Hitler and so many other things.  The U.K. will survive this and prosper.

 

“Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way........” Pink Floyd-Time, The Dark Side of The Moon

 

I dont think the UK will actually survive this, I expect Scotland to issue another request for a Independance referendum as during the last one they were assured by the No side from Westminster the only way to stay in the EU was to vote No and that swung the vote as can be clearly seen by the fact the majority of Scotland voted Remain in the EU referendum. The SNP are preparing the legislation now in anticipation and I am certain his time they will leave, assume Brexit happens.

[TXPower + 643]

1 hour ago, jaycee said:

I dont think the UK will actually survive this, I expect Scotland to issue another request for a Independance referendum as during the last one they were assured by the No side from Westminster the only way to stay in the EU was to vote No and that swung the vote as can be clearly seen by the fact the majority of Scotland voted Remain in the EU referendum. The SNP are preparing the legislation now in anticipation and I am certain his time they will leave, assume Brexit happens.

Jaycee, if Scotland an/or Ireland left the U.K., what would be the implications for England with or without a Brexit?

[jaycee + 348]

15 hours ago, TXPower said:

Jaycee, if Scotland an/or Ireland left the U.K., what would be the implications for England with or without a Brexit?

LOL 😁 Now thats a large subject!

First I will talk about the Scottish leaving the UK and I will try and keep to facts but these are actually hard to come by as both sides put out vastly opposing figures to make thier point.
Scotland would leave the UK Union if the UK leaves the EU if they were given another referendum of that I am sure, if the UK somehow remains in the EU which is still possible though only 30% chance I am guessing then another referendum in Scotland would fail as the EU would never want to encourage Scotland to leave the UK and join the EU as Spain would block Scotland doing so as they don't want the Catalans getting funny ideas of doing the same.
If Scotland did leave it would be post Brexit and would then apply to join the EU and be accepted. Scotland I believe would survive on its own. It has large oil supplies with large new ones coming  from the sea West of Shetland. There are only 5 million people, the UK has about 50 million, and similar to Norway who are a very rich nation due to their oil. Scotland would also still have its tourist industry, heavy industry, whiskey industry, a quite strong renewable energy industry based on wind and tidal power, and a small financial investment industry and of course on joining the EU they would also get assistance to upgrade transport etc so a large economic boost would happen there. On the down side a large part of Scottish trade and businesses are split between England and Scotland so a split would be very awkward plus Scotland would have to float a new independent currency, until they joined the EU unless some sneaky deal could be pulled off to join the Euro, if they used the £ London could screw them hard, there would also be the divorce bill which the English claim Scotland would owe, the SNP believes otherwise on this. It would be a very messy split and short term would be very difficult for Scotland long term I believe they would be very well off if they manage to remove the very left wing SNP from power and replace with a more sensible government which I believe they would as Scots are normally mainly on the right but the hatred of the English based Tory party prevents them voting that way.
For England it would be a massive blow IMHO as they would lose North Sea oil revenues, those against Scottish independence claim Scotland takes more money for the UK coffers than they give but I personally believe that is lies and the figures they use are badly biased as there is figures that prove the exact opposite, obviously biased to but the fact there re 5 million Scots and a large amount of oil plus other industries does suggest the balance lies with Scotland being cash generative. To me 5 million people can survive very well on North Sea revenue and the other industries that exist in Scotland and at the same time develop the country something the London based parliament has not bothered to do for centuries.
Regards Northern Ireland leaving the Union I don't think that will be a massive problem for the UK it does not have much industry or anything that generates money due to the years of the troubles holding it back economically adding it to the Republic could potentially save money and I believe the Republic are aware of the economic problems of taking it back and are not so keen on the idea in private not to mention the potential resumption of the troubles by the Protestants at the thought of joining the hated Catholic Republic.
A brief over view if you want clarification on anything let me know. Scottish independence is a specialist topic of mine.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 1/21/2019 at 10:13 AM, jaycee said:

LOL 😁 Now thats a large subject!

First I will talk about the Scottish leaving the UK and I will try and keep to facts but these are actually hard to come by as both sides put out vastly opposing figures to make thier point.
Scotland would leave the UK Union if the UK leaves the EU if they were given another referendum of that I am sure, if the UK somehow remains in the EU which is still possible though only 30% chance I am guessing then another referendum in Scotland would fail as the EU would never want to encourage Scotland to leave the UK and join the EU as Spain would block Scotland doing so as they don't want the Catalans getting funny ideas of doing the same.
If Scotland did leave it would be post Brexit and would then apply to join the EU and be accepted. Scotland I believe would survive on its own. It has large oil supplies with large new ones coming  from the sea West of Shetland. There are only 5 million people, the UK has about 50 million, and similar to Norway who are a very rich nation due to their oil. Scotland would also still have its tourist industry, heavy industry, whiskey industry, a quite strong renewable energy industry based on wind and tidal power, and a small financial investment industry and of course on joining the EU they would also get assistance to upgrade transport etc so a large economic boost would happen there. On the down side a large part of Scottish trade and businesses are split between England and Scotland so a split would be very awkward plus Scotland would have to float a new independent currency, until they joined the EU unless some sneaky deal could be pulled off to join the Euro, if they used the £ London could screw them hard, there would also be the divorce bill which the English claim Scotland would owe, the SNP believes otherwise on this. It would be a very messy split and short term would be very difficult for Scotland long term I believe they would be very well off if they manage to remove the very left wing SNP from power and replace with a more sensible government which I believe they would as Scots are normally mainly on the right but the hatred of the English based Tory party prevents them voting that way.
 For England it would be a massive blow IMHO as they would lose North Sea oil revenues, those against Scottish independence claim Scotland takes more money for the UK coffers than they give but I personally believe that is lies and the figures they use are badly biased as there is figures that prove the exact opposite, obviously biased to but the fact there re 5 million Scots and a large amount of oil plus other industries does suggest the balance lies with Scotland being cash generative. To me 5 million people can survive very well on North Sea revenue and the other industries that exist in Scotland and at the same time develop the country something the London based parliament has not bothered to do for centuries.
Regards Northern Ireland leaving the Union I don't think that will be a massive problem for the UK it does not have much industry or anything that generates money due to the years of the troubles holding it back economically adding it to the Republic could potentially save money and I believe the Republic are aware of the economic problems of taking it back and are not so keen on the idea in private not to mention the potential resumption of the troubles by the Protestants at the thought of joining the hated Catholic Republic.
A brief over view if you want clarification on anything let me know. Scottish independence is a specialist topic of mine.

Would Scotland be better as EU member or flying solo... in your opinion of course? 

[jaycee + 348]

36 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Would Scotland be better as EU member or flying solo... in your opinion of course? 

Tricky as there is a massive amount of unknowns there that make Brexit look like something as predictable as the sun coming up I would prefer solo but because Scotland has been part of the UK for 100s of years, unlike UK and EU which is only a matter of a few decades, the ties are very deep. I would say its safer to join the EU for Scotland because of the amount of unknowns and problems that will arise so would go with in the EU, at least until Scotland re establishes itself. Hope I have covered both options there lol

[Kit Moore + 50]

As a UK citizen I'd like to throw my two pence in this discussion.

I voted out and would do so again if we have another vote.  I hope we don't have another vote - we've had the referendum, that should be it as far as I'm concerned.

I do feel a bit sorry for Theresa May - she's got a job trying to sort Brexit and no real idea of how to go about it.  However, it all seems very much left to the last minute.  I get the feeling that if Trump were our PM, we wouldn't be looking at such an uncertain future.  At the end of the day, he's a businessman, something Theresa most definitely is not.  What's not helped is the constant sniping from both main parties, it's a constant endless jabbing.  It's unnecessary (and embarrassing), especially when we are this close to actually leaving.

Everything seems to be doom and gloom and panic, like at 11pm on March 29 we're all going to instantly start starving to death or dying because we don't have medicine or food.  That's not going to happen.  I think we'll end up extending Article 50 (which I don't want).  What I do want is to just get OUT, set up some trade agreements and move on with life.  The EU has pushed us to this point because we need to made an example of or others may get ideas.

Grexit, anyone??