Crude Realities of Venezuela's Future

[jaycee + 348]

15 hours ago, TXPower said:

You are correct, proximity isn’t the sole driver.  Good thing or WWII might have had a different outcome.  But what intervention has the US embarked on in Venezuela to this point?

It was the British that forced Reza Pahlavi to abdicate his rule to his son, the last Shah of Iran.  Whatever misguided goals the US may have had in trying to prop him up after, I think there is ample proof that the Islamists are far worse.

Afghanistan was the base of operations for Al Queda, I will make no apologies for our activities there post 9-11.  Suffice it to say, there was, is and will not be any payback to the US Tax Payer, for our or the UK’s efforts in Afghanistan.  Especially the families of those killed in action.  But it was necessary.

South Korea seems to be doing quite well.  Vietnam, well, I concede to you there and would add Iraq to the list.

Dont fret over the contracts America gets afterward.  None of them have even come close to paying back what those actions cost us in blood and treasure.

What the UK gets out of following the US into these is experienced, relevant and battle hardened soldiers who have the skills necessary to wage war and protect her interests.  That becomes very valuable when talk and negotiations fail.  

 

You are not getting my point, I am trying to point out there is always a reason for US, or any other country throughout history's, intervention. It is not altruistic it is for their benefit you are not putting up arguments against that so we appear in agreement. In this case what that benefit is yet to be revealed in my original post I suggested it was a diversion from the wall issue that was producing bad headlines every day for Trump whereas intervention in Venezuela is good headlines. There maybe more to it and the consequences may not be as nice as everyone expects but we shall see.

I am not getting into the argument over if life for the average Iranian is better or worse after the shah suffice to say the people there are very religious and have now got religious leaders who are we to judge what is good or bad for them? The Saudis seem happy under extreme sharia law and America is friendly with them despite acts of terrorism against the US having trails back to that country.

America joined WW2 because Japan declared war on the US after it bombed Pearl Harbour I am sure it could have continued its neutral stance and turned the other cheek but I don't think the voters would have been happy. The US did not join the war for the benefit of anyone else but itself. Declaring war on Japan meant declaring war on the entire axis of Japan,Germany, Italy etc.

South Korea and Vietnam were supported to prevent the spread of communism something the US was desperately wanting to stop it was not for the benefit of the indigenous people. In Vietnam the regime that was supported by the US was way beyond corrupt and the country was basically run for their benefit not the people that lived there. I forgot about Iraq thanks for adding but you get the picture.

I don't think battle hardening is what the UK is after in its relationship with America its more of trying to project power through association, personally I think its a waste of time and blood but it keeps the bloodthirsty among us happy and all troops are volunteers, I only question the cost in taxes and the questionable benefits.

Regards the contracts for rebuilding countries the profits are there but they are for the people who backed the war in the first place, corrupt politicians is a way off life in the US as in any other country as I have said.

Its all the same there are reasons behind every decision altruism does not exist at this level, America is not a white knight.
 

[TXPower + 643]

1 hour ago, jaycee said:

You are not getting my point, I am trying to point out there is always a reason for US, or any other country throughout history's, intervention. It is not altruistic it is for their benefit you are not putting up arguments against that so we appear in agreement. In this case what that benefit is yet to be revealed in my original post I suggested it was a diversion from the wall issue that was producing bad headlines every day for Trump whereas intervention in Venezuela is good headlines. There maybe more to it and the consequences may not be as nice as everyone expects but we shall see.

I am not getting into the argument over if life for the average Iranian is better or worse after the shah suffice to say the people there are very religious and have now got religious leaders who are we to judge what is good or bad for them? The Saudis seem happy under extreme sharia law and America is friendly with them despite acts of terrorism against the US having trails back to that country.

America joined WW2 because Japan declared war on the US after it bombed Pearl Harbour I am sure it could have continued its neutral stance and turned the other cheek but I don't think the voters would have been happy. The US did not join the war for the benefit of anyone else but itself. Declaring war on Japan meant declaring war on the entire axis of Japan,Germany, Italy etc.

South Korea and Vietnam were supported to prevent the spread of communism something the US was desperately wanting to stop it was not for the benefit of the indigenous people. In Vietnam the regime that was supported by the US was way beyond corrupt and the country was basically run for their benefit not the people that lived there. I forgot about Iraq thanks for adding but you get the picture.

I don't think battle hardening is what the UK is after in its relationship with America its more of trying to project power through association, personally I think its a waste of time and blood but it keeps the bloodthirsty among us happy and all troops are volunteers, I only question the cost in taxes and the questionable benefits.

Regards the contracts for rebuilding countries the profits are there but they are for the people who backed the war in the first place, corrupt politicians is a way off life in the US as in any other country as I have said.

Its all the same there are reasons behind every decision altruism does not exist at this level, America is not a white knight.
 

Jaycee, you also aren’t getting the point.  Last time.  What intervention has “el presidente” engaged for your wall failure diversion theory?

You brought up Iran and the others.  You made some good points but your oversimplification of each is equally as nearsighted as you consider my view.

We agree, no white knights in any of it.  There are causes and better causes.  Winners and losers in all of them.

 

[taamvan + 19]

Some helpful ideas

"Realpolitick" = (nations act in their own self-interest, narrowly defined)

The "monroe doctrine" = (America considers an entire hemisphere to be its backyard)

"Imperialism" =  (Though the monroe doctrine isn't some kind of limit and it can do whatever it pleases that's what blue water navies are built for)

"Venezuelan Oil or Oil Industry" = Not really working right now and would require alot of FDI to be worth anything in the future...fighting over the right to invest billions to fix this?  see Iraq 2005

We really don't need this oil flowing now either as there are so many negative catalysts WITHOUT shut in VZ production being put back on the market....Oil'd be <$40 at this point if VZ was doing ok.

"Venezuelan Economy" most of this exists at the moment in the US to the tune of 3MM immigrants--there are thousands of expatriates in every US city and as far as I can tell, they are the most profitable and productive part of its economy, a huge political constituency way more important than those trapped in VZ since they are not fighting for their lives and do have jobs, cash, and a working community.

Why does America Care about This?   Because its so easy to get people to buy into this garbage!

Heck, they could have said Columbia and its so bad and FARC and we should intervene and most of the posters here would be like "hell ya lets do eeeet---invasion"   Its just pure jingoism and this constant refrain that is repeated even here that we would really just be doing it to help other people, its all good intentions, just 15 minutes on the ground and the entire country will instantly transform into a libertarian democracy....its repeated so often and so consistently to justify 10-12 interventions and wars over my lifetime, all of which worked out great, and ended swiftly.   Why talk about India or Iran that stuff is ancient history, we are fighting 4 wars now, what's a fifth?

Edited February 4, 2019 by taamvan

[Mike Marcellus + 157]

@taamvan What makes you think we'll put boots on the ground? 

We do not need to do that, and should not, why are you so certain we will?  

[Jason Ericsson + 13]

Just now, jaycee said:

And America has a God given right to poke its nose it? Russia has business deals with Maduro and is protecting them.

There are no white knights in the world only grey, countries only intervene for their own benefit. Time will tell what Trump's is, a friend said to me the other night it maybe a simple as diverting people from the fact he is not getting his wall built.

By the way China also supports Maduro, again its in their business interests infact a fair part of the world actually supports him see article below it lists many countries like South Africa, Turkey, Mexico, Boliva, Cuba.... Don't let the fact there is a humanitarian disaster in the making make you see the world in black and white the West have caused a few humanitarian disasters in their time as well.

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/which-countries-support-maduro-guaido?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

The USA has been a huge importer of venezualan oil so yeah it is in their national interests.

[jaycee + 348]

8 hours ago, Jason Ericsson said:

The USA has been a huge importer of venezualan oil so yeah it is in their national interests.

So u agree everyone has an equal right? Odd u voted my post down when u agree. The poster I was replying to seemed to think Russia no right but they have business interests too  Normally when u vote something down you provide a counter arguement.

I think everyone should keep out off other countries affairs but when someone says one county has more right than another i think they should look more closely at the hypocrisy 

Edited February 5, 2019 by jaycee

[Mike Travis + 3]

jaycee, interesting that the countries you mention as having an interest like China, Turkey, and Cuba are all countries that have terrible records of human rights violations, much like Maduro in Venezuela. Plus China and Cuba are communist which are not exactly bastions of freedom by any standard. So whose side are you on?  You seem to promote the "interests" of communist countries while denigrating the interests of America so again, whose side are you on? If you are a communist sympathizer, say so for your comments point in that direction.  It will at least clarify your attitude which is not friendly to America who by the way discovered and developed the fields in Venezuela or they wouldn't even have been there all these years.  Then what would Venezuela have been exporting that allowed them to develop their country? Coconuts?

[taamvan + 19]

I said nothing of the intent to invade or not, I was referring to the ease of finding ready support for any such invasions among the US populace.

[jaycee + 348]

On 2/5/2019 at 4:31 PM, Mike Travis said:

jaycee, interesting that the countries you mention as having an interest like China, Turkey, and Cuba are all countries that have terrible records of human rights violations, much like Maduro in Venezuela. Plus China and Cuba are communist which are not exactly bastions of freedom by any standard. So whose side are you on?  You seem to promote the "interests" of communist countries while denigrating the interests of America so again, whose side are you on? If you are a communist sympathizer, say so for your comments point in that direction.  It will at least clarify your attitude which is not friendly to America who by the way discovered and developed the fields in Venezuela or they wouldn't even have been there all these years.  Then what would Venezuela have been exporting that allowed them to develop their country? Coconuts?

Did you really write that? I am actually lost for words, you are beyond parody.

Please read my posts on this thread and you will find the answer. I cannot believe someone thinks just because I have the audacity to point out America is not a white knight I must be a communist sympathizer I thought McCarthy was dead!

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 2/5/2019 at 5:31 PM, Mike Travis said:

jaycee, interesting that the countries you mention as having an interest like China, Turkey, and Cuba are all countries that have terrible records of human rights violations, much like Maduro in Venezuela. Plus China and Cuba are communist which are not exactly bastions of freedom by any standard. So whose side are you on?  You seem to promote the "interests" of communist countries while denigrating the interests of America so again, whose side are you on? If you are a communist sympathizer, say so for your comments point in that direction.  It will at least clarify your attitude which is not friendly to America who by the way discovered and developed the fields in Venezuela or they wouldn't even have been there all these years.  Then what would Venezuela have been exporting that allowed them to develop their country? Coconuts?

Mike, 

JC and I disagree on several things. But I can assure that he is NOT to the left on the political spectrum. 

Generally, I have noticed on this forum that is very unpopular to say anything MAGA and Trump is always rigth. That is a shame. America is a great nation. But not perfect. Same goes for other nations. Trump is NOT right on everything, but he is not wrong on everything either. 

politcal extremism on either side of the spectrum is dangerous. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

On 2/5/2019 at 1:43 AM, taamvan said:

Its just pure jingoism and this constant refrain that is repeated even here that we would really just be doing it to help other people, its all good intentions, just 15 minutes on the ground and the entire country will instantly transform into a libertarian democracy....its repeated so often and so consistently to justify 10-12 interventions and wars over my lifetime, all of which worked out great, and ended swiftly.   Why talk about India or Iran that stuff is ancient history, we are fighting 4 wars now, what's a fifth?

The Real Reason The U.S. Wants Regime Change In Venezuela

The U.S. and its allies have decided to throw their weight behind yet another coup attempt in Venezuela. As usual, they claim that their objectives are democracy and freedom. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

... Maduro’s predecessor Hugo Chavez nationalized the oil industry and used the proceeds to fund his socialist vision for the country. Now you could make the case that this vision was flawed, and horribly mismanaged, however he had strong public support for this mandate; so much support in fact, that when U.S. backed coup plotters kidnapped Hugo Chavez in 2002 crowds took to the streets en mass and he was quickly reinstated.

... “But Maduro’s a bad leader!”

Compared to who? Which paragon of good governance will we refer to as the model? Trump? Theresa May? Angel Merkel? Macron? Take your time.

This isn’t democracy, it’s a neo-colonial power grab. Juan Guaidó never ran for the office he claimed, and the fact that he directly colluded with a foreign nation to overthrow the man who was elected president marks him as a traitor.

Juan Guaidó is a puppet. If installed, he will serve the interests who bought his ticket. Venezuela’s oil industry will be privatized, and the profits will be sucked out of the country by western corporations.

What’s happening in Venezuela right now is a replay of the 1973 U.S. backed coup in Chile, where the democratically elected president of Chile, Salvador Allende, was overthrown, and replaced with the military dictatorship of Pinochet. Pinochet murdered over 3000 political opponents during his rule, and tortured over 30,000, but he was friendly to American business interests so Washington looked the other way.

One could make the case that Maduro is incompetent. One could make the case that his economic theories are trash. (The same can be said for the haircuts in suits calling for his removal.) But the reality of the matter is that unless you happen to be a Venezuelan citizen, how Venezuela is governed is actually none of your business.

Given how things turned out in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and Ukraine you’d think people would get the hint. When it comes to spreading democracy, you suck. U.S. regime change operations have left nothing but chaos, death and destruction in their wake. If you want to make the world a better place, maybe, just maybe, you should start at home.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

12 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Mike, 

JC and I disagree on several things. But I can assure that he is NOT to the left on the political spectrum. 

Generally, I have noticed on this forum that is very unpopular to say anything MAGA and Trump is always rigth. That is a shame. America is a great nation. But not perfect. Same goes for other nations. Trump is NOT right on everything, but he is not wrong on everything either. 

politcal extremism on either side of the spectrum is dangerous. 

Trump is actually very moderate in his politics by any rational standard. Those who think he is far right just show their ignorance of political theory. JFK would not even be allowed in the Democratic Party of today. 

[Mike Marcellus + 157]

On 2/7/2019 at 6:56 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

The Real Reason The U.S. Wants Regime Change In Venezuela

@Tom KirkmanMr. Kirkman,,, please, I am so surprised you would link an article so full of trash.  There isn't even a by-line, who wrote this, and why would they not want to put there name to it?

1st, it is not a coup.  The constitution in Venezuela separates power into 5 sections of government for such needs as governing in the absence of a president.  Juan Guido is one of 131 members of the National Assembly (legislative branch) Claiming the  2018 elections (originally set for December 2018, moved up for no reason to April 2018, and ended up happening in May 2018) kept Maduro in office were a sham.  The government put opponents in jail,,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election  excerpt here ...The majority of popular leaders of the MUD and other members of the opposition could not apply for the elections because of administrative and legal procedures and were disqualified from participating in the presidential elections by the government. This included Henrique Capriles (candidate in the 2012 and 2013 elections), Leopoldo López (sentenced to almost 14 years of prison during the 2014 protests), Antonio Ledezma (arrested in 2015 and later placed under house arrest), Freddy Guevara (whose parliamentary immunity was removed and fled to the residence of the Chilean ambassador), and David Smolansky (currently in exile), as well as María Corina Machado and Miguel Rodríguez Torres, former defense minister and dissident chavista, also incarcerated.^[59] On 5 April 2017, the Comptroller General of Venezuela notified Capriles that for 15 years, he would be prevented from participating in public office, due to his alleged misuse of public funds, a charge that Capriles denied.^[60]

2nd, ...long, long before Chavez kicked the foreign oil companies out of Venezuela, in 2007, he stopped paying them.  Oil companies showed up to Venezuela, and said hey, there's oil in your ground,,, We'll pump it out for you, all you have to do is pay us from the huge profits you will make from our efforts,,, so sit back and let us get to work for you.  Venezeula said "great!"  look it up please.

Than they just stopped paying them one day.  They oil companies stuck around because it was the best chance they had of getting paid. Not taking the hint, one day Chavez showed up with guns, literally, and kicked out the workers, and replaced them with people not qualified, but loyal,  at least loyal to the cut they enjoyed. Here is one example of Exxon's trials of getting paid. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/business/global/venezuela-ordered-to-pay-900-million-to-exxon-mobil.html

further,  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-exxon/order-for-venezuela-to-pay-exxon-1-4-billion-in-damages-overturned-lawyer-idUSKBN16G38C ....Despite its appeal of the World Bank court’s initial ruling in the Exxon case, Venezuela’s government had hailed that as a success because the company had been seeking compensation of up to $10 billion

Not just Exxon, ...Connoco Phillips, Chevron, BP, there are many many more.

There was one sentence I agreed with in the article  ...But the reality of the matter is that unless you happen to be a Venezuelan citizen, how Venezuela is governed is actually none of your business.     I argue, Juan Guaido is Venezuelan, and acting as interim president, he has called for new elections. 

 

The U.S. humaritarian efforts have been genuine,,, example here, https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/27/navy-hospital-ship-comfort-treats-venezuelan-migrants-colombians/.   and here... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/pompeo-pledges-20m-aid-package-to-venezuela-after-request-from-maduro-opposition-leader

and illegitimate leader Maduro's reaction to the aid for his fellow citizens demonstrated by blocking the highway,,, pictures included for your viewing pleasure... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/world/americas/venezuela-aid.html

 

[Krishnan Unni Madathil + 3]

On 2/3/2019 at 5:37 AM, ronwagn said:

History is mainly a history of wars and how more technologically advanced nations took over other nations. I know of no areas that are exceptions. India was first taken over by lighter skinned invaders from the north and then by Muslims. The British came in the modern era. India has advanced greatly due to the time the British spent there as did the Chinese and Koreans due to invasions by the Japanese. That is not to say any of it was morally or ethically correct. It is just a fact. American Indian tribes fought each other for territory before the Europeans invaded. North and South Americans are far more populous and wealthy for it. It is the same all over the world. Colonial powers greatly advanced the areas. Communism has had the opposite effect because it just doesn't work. Capitalist nations can quickly reverse the economic fate of Venezuela. Communists cannot. Look at Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea, Bolivia, etc. 

 Hi sir, a bit off topic but not so sure about lighter-skinned people "invading" India. Yes Turks and Mongols invaded from the North-West ages ago, but Indian society by and large went along just fine, bearing the brunt of invasions, digesting it and moving on. Indians really don't have a sob story to resent and draw strength from. History is not all about wars; it is about wars, for civilisations that no longer exist - who defeated whom, which battles were fought when etc. Much of history, for a country like India, is lived reality. As Indians are mostly what are called Pagans in the western parlance, they were given an especial beating at the hands of Muslim marauders during the Middle Ages. The European interaction with India was fruitful, not least for the Indians who finally managed to rid themselves off the Mughal yoke. And did you know that the Dutch were defeated in open battle, at the height of their powers, by an Indian state in the 1740s? Suffice to say, it is hard to summarise 400 to 800 years of history in a few lines.

But we are on about Venezuela. I humbly submit, Venezuela is a Marxist disaster. It is simply impossible to imagine the country with the world's largest petroleum reserves undergoing its current predicament. Venezuela is unlikely to be a prime mover of energy prices now that it's production has essentially been snuffed out of the market. You can say what you want, but Maduro was "voted in" by the people of Venezuela; it serves them right to suffer the consequences of his incompetence. The US and other countries run the risk once again, of being smeared as "imperialists" and "capitalist monsters" even though they will be the ones having to foot the bill at the end of the day through immigration programs and such. For the US, this should be a journalist's war - they should slip into Venezuela and record and report as Maduro and his Chavistas continue to ruin Venezuela (or alternatively turn it around) for all the world to see. Think about it. The US invaded Iraq to liberate it - Iraqis hate the US. The US invaded Afghanistan to liberate it - Afghans hate the US. US Allied invaded Libya to liberate it - Manchester bombing. The last time the US invaded someplace and turned it around was Germany and Japan; and Venezuela is not Germany or Japan. It is funny that literally anyone in these countries with the knowledge and means would try their best to migrate, family in tow, to the US or Canada despite hating them - hypocrisy is funny at times.

If Maduro goes, it is probably best for Venezuela's people first and foremost. But it is best if they earn his departure, rather than have the ignominy of being helped out by foreigners to sort out their mess, only for them to vote in a Marxist again. And no-holds barred capitalism did not really help Russia after 1991. Nuance is important. 

[jose chalhoub + 388]

Hello all. great discussion and debate here. Here are some thoughts on the situation in my country Venezuela: 

Venezuela is in a deep state of a crisis of governance today, with an embattled Maduro flexing muscles and decided to hold on tight his grip on power only backed by the top ranks of the armed forces, especially the army and the national guards, while interim president having assumed on the basis of usurpation of power of Nicolas Maduro after alleged fraudulent elections in 2018 May now has with many sectors of the opposition a rather smarter strategy with an international wide backing to displace Maduro from the presidency and call for fresh elections as Washington has toughened sanctions on venezuelan oil exports, while Guaido has aimed to recover CITGO and PDVSA while Russia and China even if showing support for Maduro, it is still uncertain how long both Beijing and Moscow can back a weakened Maduro whose days might be numbered as the population falls into despair and desperation hoping for a quick exit out of the mess Venezuela has turned into while waiting for the humanitarian aid by the US and other countries. Crucial days and weeks to come to Venezuela.

With regards to the outlook for the Venezuelan oil sector and company PDVSA during the ongoing turmoil, the sanctions applied by the Trump administration come to aggravate the already critical crumbling situation of the overall infrastructure, from the oil wells, plants, ports, lack of maintenance of equipments to the refining circuit, provoking longstanding shortages of gasoline, and a downward trend of oil production now around 1.000.000 barrels per day with the potential to fall further below with more personnel and workers to leave due to pressures, political crisis and low wages. If sanctions continue to venezuelan oil exports to the U.S., main client and most profitable, even if with contingency plans to divert these exports to China and India, while EU sets to reinforce sanctions and block assets of Maduro administration as it recognised overall the Guaido interim presidency, it will be most likely unsustainable for PDVSA to endure this hard situation meanwhile Russia and China might be wary of their support to Maduro and with the only concern to safeguard their investments in Venezuela while Guaido team has reached out to China and stated that their investments wont be harmed and even will be better in doing business with a new administration. Overall, uncertain outlook for Venezuela, PDVSA and the Maduro administration but also for Guaido to keep its momentum if no quick exit is shown for the Maduro regime while humanitarian aid is blocked from entering Venezuela with many people in need and in precarious situation.

I will be keeping updating about the situation as it unfolds here, as gasoline scarces, as power outages continue everyday, as tension looms and as political uncertainty continues regarding what will happen next in Venezuela. 

[jose chalhoub + 388]

On 2/1/2019 at 3:02 PM, Mike Marcellus said:

Who do you support? @jaycee.  I support Juan Guido.

I agree, few things are black and white.  But Maduro is stealing from his countrymen.

Anyone supporting Maduro supports a thief at best, a mass murderer at worse. 

Not looking for a debate, just looking for confirmation, who do you support?

Guaido for sure wont be the next president he is just leading a strategy a smart strategy though. But for sure will be someone of his party. In Venezuela nobody wants old traditional politicians to come and assume power after Maduro and the revolution. 

[jhgonza22 + 6]

How can you talk about Venezuela if you don't live there?

 

Venezuela has very serious problems, I live in Venezuela and I´m a Petroleum engineer, i worked at Pdvsa for 2 years, and i had to resign because of very low salaries, i earned less that 12$ per month as an engineer. After 20 years of revolution government (Chavez + Maduro) the country is a whole mess, Schools don't have electricity, water or even teachers, where i live there are black outs of 4 hours every day and water supplie is just 12hrs every 10 days. And if we talk about hospitals, most of them are completely empty, no medicines, no supplies or medical equipment. Being sick right now in Venezuela is a death sentence. People are desperate, because of hyperinflation  (2.688.000%), Collapsed Public services (Water, Internet, Electricity, public transportation), and Nicolas Maduro has said that we must wait TEN years for some kind of solution.
Right Now i've got two jobs and i can't afford a pair of new shoes. Can you believe that. How can I wait ten years for a solution?

Juan Guaido has support among most Venezuelans because he gives us hope and A light at the end of the tunnel.
 

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by jhgonza22

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Krishnan Unni Madathil said:

 Hi sir, a bit off topic but not so sure about lighter-skinned people "invading" India. Yes Turks and Mongols invaded from the North-West ages ago, but Indian society by and large went along just fine, bearing the brunt of invasions, digesting it and moving on. Indians really don't have a sob story to resent and draw strength from. History is not all about wars; it is about wars, for civilisations that no longer exist - who defeated whom, which battles were fought when etc. Much of history, for a country like India, is lived reality. As Indians are mostly what are called Pagans in the western parlance, they were given an especial beating at the hands of Muslim marauders during the Middle Ages. The European interaction with India was fruitful, not least for the Indians who finally managed to rid themselves off the Mughal yoke. And did you know that the Dutch were defeated in open battle, at the height of their powers, by an Indian state in the 1740s? Suffice to say, it is hard to summarise 400 to 800 years of history in a few lines.

But we are on about Venezuela. I humbly submit, Venezuela is a Marxist disaster. It is simply impossible to imagine the country with the world's largest petroleum reserves undergoing its current predicament. Venezuela is unlikely to be a prime mover of energy prices now that it's production has essentially been snuffed out of the market. You can say what you want, but Maduro was "voted in" by the people of Venezuela; it serves them right to suffer the consequences of his incompetence. The US and other countries run the risk once again, of being smeared as "imperialists" and "capitalist monsters" even though they will be the ones having to foot the bill at the end of the day through immigration programs and such. For the US, this should be a journalist's war - they should slip into Venezuela and record and report as Maduro and his Chavistas continue to ruin Venezuela (or alternatively turn it around) for all the world to see. Think about it. The US invaded Iraq to liberate it - Iraqis hate the US. The US invaded Afghanistan to liberate it - Afghans hate the US. US Allied invaded Libya to liberate it - Manchester bombing. The last time the US invaded someplace and turned it around was Germany and Japan; and Venezuela is not Germany or Japan. It is funny that literally anyone in these countries with the knowledge and means would try their best to migrate, family in tow, to the US or Canada despite hating them - hypocrisy is funny at times.

If Maduro goes, it is probably best for Venezuela's people first and foremost. But it is best if they earn his departure, rather than have the ignominy of being helped out by foreigners to sort out their mess, only for them to vote in a Marxist again. And no-holds barred capitalism did not really help Russia after 1991. Nuance is important. 

A beautiful comment, thank you. I am very fond of the dream of India and it's religious heritage. I have worked with Indian doctors both Hindu and Muslim though possibly not highly religious. I often look at the difference between China's materialism and India's apparent religious intoxication. I wish they could each borrow the best from each other. I hope you can give us many valuable insights into the cultures you are familiar with!

[specinho + 467]

On 2/2/2019 at 11:41 AM, Sukumar Ray said:

Whether Guaido will be able to manage current Venezuelan situation ??  Bringing the current situation under control and the economy on tract will take years for any leader. But, it is clear under Maduro's leadership the situation is going to be worse. Maduro should immediately call for a free and fair election and step aside till election results. This is the only solution which can bring the turbulent situation to normalcy. Army and police should be neutral and should not side with any political leader for the sake of the nation . UN observers must be there during election time . UN must give stern warning to Maduro for any arm twisting and meddling in the election affairs. He must be stepping aside till election results and Guaido should also be only care taker president till election results are out. US and UN have greater role to play bringing peace and normalcy in Venezuela.

Post election Caracas must allow its' closed and underdeveloped wells to operate and allow privatization of Oil Industry. Unless money and technology are allowed in the Oil sector , economic viability of Venezuela's  Oil industry will be a distant dream. The world is changing very rapidly and in the next 10-15 years Oil industry is expected to be changing to Gas based only and this major shift will leave Venezuela's unused, untapped oil resources redundant and will be of no significant use for the nation.s economy. Venezuela must wake up and allow  immediate privatization of oil industry and build production capacity of Oil wells and this can be only possible  inviting MNCs to pump money and technology in this Oil sector to which entire nation is totally dependent. Wake up Venezuela, time is slipping away?? 

Privatization?? Would purchase few cents of oil and sell high be more profitable than to invest all the capital and equipments +etc to extract  oneself??