US-backed coup in Venezuela not so smooth

[Maxim Androsov + 31]

15 minutes ago, Zhong Lu said:

LOL.  When people write like this, with all of these uppity exclamation marks, you know they know that they're lying through their teeth.  My point about Russian jealously and imperialism has hit the mark.  

You say - "LOL?" Seriously? 

Well I suspected that I'm talking to a schoolboy here.

Read about your "point about Russian jealousy" in my other comment.

[Zhong Lu + 845]

5 minutes ago, Observatus Geopoliticus said:

Chechnya is Russia.

Ukraine was the theatre of a US coup.

Georgia wasn't invaded.

 Syria invited Russia.

Your propaganda trolling falls apart.

Ok, then two can play at this game.  

Iraq had to be invaded because of a humanitarian crisis thanks to the horror of Saddam Hussein.

If US invades Venezuela, it would be at the behest of its legitimate president, Mr. Guiado against a pretender (Maduro).  

In Vietnam the Americans were invited in by the legitimate president of Vietnam at the time. But both China and Russia interfered in South Vietnam's internal affairs by sending support to the Viet Cong to start a civil war.  

Edited February 25, 2019 by Zhong Lu

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Observatus Geopoliticus said:

and

OK, got it. With this childish nationalism I understand now why you're both completely unable to discuss world's affairs.

Sweet dreams...

Mr. Observatus, I am not an American citizen.  By definition, I am not engaging in (American) nationalism.  Unless you think all of Holland has converted to being Americans.  We do not.  We have a Monarchy, and I am a Monarchist. My  fealty is to our King.  I just call it the way I see it, and incidentally the way I see it is far more accurate than the way you see it. See if I care.  I do not propose to get involved in responding to your diatribes about Americans.  Sure, they are not perfect, but where I have a choice  (and I do), I would rather be neighbors with Americans, specifically including those with arsenals of guns in their homes, than with anybody else.  Americans are overwhelmingly decent people. 

So get over it, pal, and I shall not respond further to whatever you write, either brilliant or drivel,  See if I care. 

[Maxim Androsov + 31]

2 minutes ago, Zhong Lu said:

Chechnya, Ukraine, Georgia, Syria.  All in the last 20 or 30 years.  

Zhong Lu.. I already suspected from your frequent "LOL" exclamations that I'm talking to a schoolboy here.

Mentioning Chechnya only supports my suspicion. Chechnya is republic within Russia.

It's like to say that USA invaded Louisiana to fight the looters after hurricane Katrina.

In Syria Russia is per invitation from the Syrian government. 

Explaining you Ukraine and Georgia will be too difficult for your simple mind I guess.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

Also remember that it was not just in soldiers that Americans paid.  When you have 55,000 dead soldiers, you also have 55,000 American women who will have no husband.  When you have 2,000,000 battle wounded, then you also have 2 million American women with crippled husbands. The costs of being the world's policeman extends well beyond the military price. 

 

Sigh, you have an outdated opinion of where women fit in this world.  Women are far more than wives and baby factories nowadays...

[Zhong Lu + 845]

Ok, then by your same logic, the US invaded Vietnam at the behest of the government, too.  But Russia interfered, starting a civil war that killed millions.  So the Vietnamese war was Russia's fault.  

Similarly, if the US invades Venezuela, they would do it at the behest of the Venezuelan government led by Mr. Guaido against a pretender supported by foreign powers (Maduro).  

Your arguments go nowhere Maxim Androsov.   

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Enthalpic said:

Sigh, you have an outdated opinion of where women fit in this world.  Women are far more than wives and baby factories nowadays...

Yup, mea culpa.  (That's "I'm guilty" in case you did not study classical languages). 

I'm just an old fossil, and all my thinking is strictly sixteenth-century.  Roll with it. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

10 minutes ago, Zhong Lu said:

 

Iraq had to be invaded because of a humanitarian crisis thanks to the horror of Saddam Hussein.

 

Which time?  I thought the justification was weapons of mass destruction that actually didn't exist? 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Yup, mea culpa.  (That's "I'm guilty" in case you did not study classical languages). 

I'm just an old fossil, and all my thinking is strictly sixteenth-century.  Roll with it. 

Acceptance is the first step towards recovery.

[Zhong Lu + 845]

It was that and the fact that Saddam was an asshole to his people (kinda like Assad and Maduro).  

[Zhong Lu + 845]

My position is this: if a country can't get its shi- together, it's going to get invaded by its stronger neighbors.  Imperial powers always find excuse  The US does it sure, but Russia would be worse, if they had the power.  Russia would be invading more countries if it wasn't for NATO and the Russian adventures in Afghanistan.  [Lativia is really actually part of Russia.  It would be just like invading Lousiana].

 

EDIT: All of this "oh you shouldn't interfere in the countries of others" being spewed by the Russians is just hypocrisy.  They'd have long since found an excuse to invade Venezuela if they were in America's shoes.  Just look at Ukraine and Syria.  

Edited February 25, 2019 by Zhong Lu

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

14 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Which time?  I thought the justification was weapons of mass destruction that actually didn't exist? 

The "justification" was that Saddam slaughtered his way into Kuwait, looted the place into oblivion, then destroyed and set fire to thousands of oil wells, dumping staggering amounts of crude into the Gulf and over the soil, creating untold horrors of pollution, and all that is before you even consider his invasion of Iran, the slaughter of Iranians, then his slaughters of the Kurds, and of the Shi'ites and the "reed people" living in the Euphrates Delta, and whatever other horrors he inflicted on Iraq and its neighbors.  Nice guy?  Not so much?  worthy of being declared an international Outlaw, printed on the Ace of Spaces of the Bad Guys of Iraq?  Definitely.  Worthy of being hung? You bet. 

Total scumbag, monster, and killer. What is to be done with such malignant growths?  Put a price on their heads?  Hang them?  Shoot them?  Yup, all three.  

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

31 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Acceptance is the first step towards recovery.

Not me.  As I get older, I continue to sink away.  Deeper into the muck of the pit.  Oh, well. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

 

Total scumbag, monster, and killer. What is to be done with such malignant growths?  Put a price on their heads?  Hang them?  Shoot them?  Yup, all three.  

They should be tried and punished by their own people, or at least by an international organization.  Saddam was hung by Iraqis. 

The world gets very unstable when a single nation decides who lives and dies and carries out illegal assassinations.  I'm sure lots of people would love to assassinate Trump... what would happen then??

"No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

32 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

They should be tried and punished by their own people, or at least by an international organization.  Saddam was hung by Iraqis. 

The world gets very unstable when a single nation decides who lives and dies and carries out illegal assassinations.  I'm sure lots of people would love to assassinate Trump... what would happen then??

"No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

In theory, there is a UN World Court for "war crimes" and other murderous conduct.  Ratko Mladic, the notorious "Butcher of Serbia,"  and his cronies got tried there. Yet the World Court does not issue death sentences. Maybe that is a good thing; maybe not. 

[Maxim Androsov + 31]

2 hours ago, Zhong Lu said:

Ok, then by your same logic, the US invaded Vietnam at the behest of the government, too.  But Russia interfered, starting a civil war that killed millions.  So the Vietnamese war was Russia's fault.  

Similarly, if the US invades Venezuela, they would do it at the behest of the Venezuelan government led by Mr. Guaido against a pretender supported by foreign powers (Maduro).  

Your arguments go nowhere Maxim Androsov.   

At least I'm applying the logic.

Your "But Russia interfered, starting a civil war that killed millions" sounds like.. a diagnosis, sorry.. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

44 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

They should be tried and punished by their own people, or at least by an international organization.  Saddam was hung by Iraqis. 

The world gets very unstable when a single nation decides who lives and dies and carries out illegal assassinations.  I'm sure lots of people would love to assassinate Trump... what would happen then??

"No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

I am not sure of that at all.  Indeed, I have not met anyone who wants to assassinate Trump.  The whole concept strikes me as faintly preposterous. Trump's (and America's) enemies have much more to gain by having him both alive, and in good health, and as President. On the times when he does something totally incompetent, they can crow about being superior.  On times when he surprises them and the world (such as meeting with Kim J.U.),  they can go criticize.  Either way, more interesting than having him dead, that's for sure. 

Assassination is typically reserved for truly appalling people.  The Colonel from Libya comes to mind. The US tried to whack him with bomber planes all the way from England, via Gibraltar.  Didn't work.  Sure unsettled him, though.  His behavior changed dramatically after his desert tent was demolished with a 500-lb bomb. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Jan van Eck

[Maxim Androsov + 31]

4 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Sorry, Rodi, the above does not qualify as "lively and intelligent debate."  In my view, what you are looking at is ranting. 

the idea that Maduro is some form of reincarnated saint, brought to Venezuela by God in order to lead "the People" to the nirvana of a happy and prosperous life, is comically absurd.  The man is a pig and a thug and has given the final push to turning Venezuela into a kleptocracy.  He and his cronies steal billions and literally leave the population to starve and die.  What he has done qualifies as a crime against humanity, and in my view that sets up placing him on a "Wanted - Dead or Alive" poster with a $5,000,000 bounty on his head.  Declaring him an international Outlaw, beyond the protections of any State, is right, proper, just and equitable. 

OK, moving past that thug, the real crisis in the Western Hemisphere is what do the nations of the Hemisphere do about it?  Do you or does anybody propose to just stand back, leave it alone, watch millions starve and die, watch more millions create the vastest movement of refugees ever (or, at least, since WWII) flood in a mass wave of misery from Peru to Canada?  And who is able to deal with that?  Who has the resources? 

I see these posts about Stalin having murdered 20 million.  Hey, that is just in Russians.  Add in the conquered countries and you are closer to 50 million. Is the USA perfect?  Of course not.  Americans have done some seriously dumb things. That does not qualify the entire country as an army of succubus warriors. In all candor, once you get past the yahoo contingent  (and yes, every country has its yahoos, including Dudley Do-Right and Canada), Americans are the most decent and honorable people on the planet.  Only the Americans will step up to the plate and suffer hurt and privation in an effort to better the lives of others.  I am not prepared to tolerate people posting dumps on the Americans, that is nasty and brutish, and above all, not truthful. Does anybody seriously think that the Russians (or the South Africans, for Heaven's sake) are going to step up to the plate and stabilize Venezuela?  Let's get real here: only the Americans have the capacity, and the backbone, and the moral will, to do that.  

The garbage I read in this thread makes me sick. It is the work of trolls, hiding behind anonymous name fabrications. I refuse to respond to posts by trolls, so trolls, you are on notice that you cannot bait me. Meanwhile, anybody who attempts to maintain that there is not catastrophic humanitarian crisis developing in Venezuela should go sit in their outhouse out in back and stay off the internet.

qte

I see these posts about Stalin having murdered 20 million.  Hey, that is just in Russians.  Add in the conquered countries and you are closer to 50 million.

unqte

Where did you get this nonsense from? Do you mind bringing any supporting documents to that? 

qte

Americans are the most decent and honorable people on the planet.  Only the Americans will step up to the plate and suffer hurt and privation in an effort to better the lives of others. 

unqte

I live in Sweden. Swedish friends sitting next to me say hello to you and now laughing out loud at your "Americans are the most decent and honorable people on the planet." They thought i'm joking when I read it to them. The 2nd part of that your sentence is damn funny too.

Go on! Lay yourself open to more ridicule!

[Serhii Li + 13]

 

Hi, all real and honest members of Oilprice, 

those 2 members (Observatus Geopoliticus, Maxim Androsov)  above are clearly just paid russian trolls. They use different nicknames, but post same info everywhere: 

- Maduro is legitimate, anything else is US Coup

- Russian invasion in Georgia and annexation of Abkhazia was legitimate, Geourgia was a victime of US Coup. 

- Russian invation in Ukraine and annexation of Crimea and part of Donbass was legitimate (US Coup bla-bla-bla). 

 

I'm from Donetsk, Ukrainian city occupied and controlled by Russia since 2014. Since Russian invasion in Ukraine in 2014 I have seen literally thousands of these accounts with proven links to known paid-troll-factories in Russia. Moreover, due to Russian propaganda being so waste, some people became persuaded that this information from troll-factory is true, so these people became free-trolls. 

 

Thus, I would advise to to save your valuable time and do not argue with dishonest people - since they are paid based on amount of comments on their posts, you are just helping them to earn their dirty money. 

You can just post "Russian troll detected"

[NickW + 2,714]

4 hours ago, Illurion said:

The Iranians are in Syria to attack Israel......

The Israelis did not invite the Iranians.......

The Iranians are in Syria by invite. Assad invited them. Iran accepted the offer in the same way that Russia did. The primary role of Iranian forces and volunteers have been to fight ISIS and US ally - Al Qaeda. 

Since the Russians (primarily air force) and Iran ground forces got involved what was the end result - ISIS wiped out / end of Syrian civil war. 

I agree the Iranians should keep their noses out of Israel but then Israel has been interfering extensively in Syria, even providing medical and military support to Al Qaeda (those same people who flew two airliners into the Twin Towers). 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by NickW

[Maxim Androsov + 31]

3 hours ago, TXPower said:

Did you miss the post where I showed you that you brought Russia into the discussion with your reference to Dr. Strangelove and S300 missiles.  You haven’t presented any more facts.  You literally repeated everything you have already said with the diatribe above.  I’m not going back through the list with you.

America is exceptional in almost every way.  She ain’t perfect but she’s the best the world has.

Name calling is unnecessary and demonstrates that you have lost control over your emotions.  Let us now adhere to some decorum and agree that we see the world through different lenses, be gentlemen and move on.

qte

Did you miss the post where I showed you that you brought Russia into the discussion with your reference to Dr. Strangelove and S300 missiles.

unqte

I never ever brought Russia into our discussion. Neither did I ever made any reference to your favourite Dr.Strangelove. Yes, I mentioned S300 but in response to someone else's comment about it. I never mentioned Russia in our discussion until you've done it in the 1st ever response to my 1st ever comment. You are welcome to prove that I'm wrong.

It's easy to lose control over the emotions if someone is always talking to you from the perspective of the "superior, exceptional, best, best of the best and even better than that American". I live in Sweden. Swedes are intelligent people but you will never hear from them they are superior to any other nation. Americans tend to always brag about it. This sucks big time and lots of nations have disrespect for americans exactly because of that. 

qte

You haven’t presented any more facts.

unqte

I have presented to you at least some facts (like that America is losing war in Afghanistan) and undeniable number of people dead from the US invasions after WWII in other people's lands. You only managed to come up with good funnies like "20 millions killed by Stalin" and "Russia has lost in Afghanistan". 

Strange way of arguing, to say the least..

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

14 minutes ago, Serhii Li said:

 

Hi, all real and honest members of Oilprice, 

those 2 members (Observatus Geopoliticus, Maxim Androsov)  above are clearly just paid russian trolls. They use different nicknames, but post same info everywhere: 

- Maduro is legitimate, anything else is US Coup

- Russian invasion in Georgia and annexation of Abkhazia was legitimate, Geourgia was a victime of US Coup. 

- Russian invation in Ukraine and annexation of Crimea and part of Donbass was legitimate (US Coup bla-bla-bla). 

 

I'm from Donetsk, Ukrainian city occupied and controlled by Russia since 2014. Since Russian invasion in Ukraine in 2014 I have seen literally thousands of these accounts with proven links to known paid-troll-factories in Russia. Moreover, due to Russian propaganda being so waste, some people became persuaded that this information from troll-factory is true, so these people became free-trolls. 

 

Thus, I would advise to to save your valuable time and do not argue with dishonest people - since they are paid based on amount of comments on their posts, you are just helping them to earn their dirty money. 

You can just post "Russian troll detected"

Dear Russia,

I argue with fools for fun - send money.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

37 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Trump's (and America's) enemies have much more to gain by having him both alive, and in good health, and as President. On the times when he does something totally incompetent, they can crow about being superior.  On times when he surprises them and the world (such as meeting with Kim J.U.),  they can go criticize.  Either way, more interesting than having him dead, that's for sure. 

 

Upon further consideration I think you might be right about that - except for people who want him dead for purely holy war purposes. 

[TXPower + 643]

Russian Troll Detected.

[Maxim Androsov + 31]

52 minutes ago, Serhii Li said:

 

Hi, all real and honest members of Oilprice, 

those 2 members (Observatus Geopoliticus, Maxim Androsov)  above are clearly just paid russian trolls.

That's so funny!

Serhii (or whoever you are in real life), I don't know who you are. Maybe you are someone,  but maybe you are nobody.

Contrary to your allusions, I'm not a troll but a real name with 25 years of experience in oil shipping industry (one can always check my FB profile that I used when I registered on this site). 

Every time when ukrainian like you, with no ability to hold a discussion, sees russian on forum he applies one and only tactic - to start calling russian "a troll" and appeal to the audience to come to the rescue pretending he is a victim (personally) of a Russian aggression. How pathetic!

We are not discussing Ukraine-Russia relations here Serhii. This topic is about something else. You don't need to always bring your Ukrainian questionable agenda everywhere you go on this planet thinking that people should start immediately feeling pity and sorry for you and give you a candy or two.

Just grow some balls before you enter serious talk and don't start with fishing for a sympathy instead. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Maxim Androsov