Exxon, Chevron the New Permian Kings

[Mike Shellman + 548]

27 minutes ago, wrs said:

This is what the "free market" produces in the oil business, always did and always will.  You are just on the wrong end of it in th stripper business.  

So you ascribe all the fault of the oil price collapse to shale and not KSA that wildly adjusted their production in 2014 to collapse the market by flooding it and again this summer to make Trump happy?  

I am not on the wrong end of anything, "pardnor." I am not just a stripper well operator and have interests in shale oil wells. Sorry, free market nor fair competition nor beneficial economic growth occurs effectively on debt/credit.  I think its hard for people like yourself to even comprehend that some people do actually believe that the manner in which our nation's remaining resources are being mismanaged. For you its all about money and I for one am tired of hearing how much of you make and that its landmen and old, bad leases, made in good faith at the time, that keep you from making more money. Millions of people would be happy, and feel blessed, for what you apparently have.

The chart, one of many around, clearly shows that overleveraged oversupply of US LTO threw a pretty well balanced oil market out of whack thru the end of 2014. The result was a price collapse. OPEC responded in mid 2015, after the price collapse, in an effort to regain market share. Seems logical to me. As does the fact that without OPEC + production cuts the price of oil would be in the low $40's right now and the LTO industry sucking more wind than it already is.

Good day to you. 

 

 

[wrs + 893]

26 minutes ago, Mike Shellman said:

I am not on the wrong end of anything, "pardnor." I am not just a stripper well operator and have interests in shale oil wells. Sorry, free market nor fair competition nor beneficial economic growth occurs effectively on debt/credit.  I think its hard for people like yourself to even comprehend that some people do actually believe that the manner in which our nation's remaining resources are being mismanaged. For you its all about money and I for one am tired of hearing how much of you make and that its landmen and old, bad leases, made in good faith at the time, that keep you from making more money. Millions of people would be happy, and feel blessed, for what you apparently have.

The chart, one of many around, clearly shows that overleveraged oversupply of US LTO threw a pretty well balanced oil market out of whack thru the end of 2014. The result was a price collapse. OPEC responded in mid 2015, after the price collapse, in an effort to regain market share. Seems logical to me. As does the fact that without OPEC + production cuts the price of oil would be in the low $40's right now and the LTO industry sucking more wind than it already is.

Good day to you. 

 

 

While I see that there is mismanagement, I don't think it's a problem as much as you do.  You are sick of hearing I make money then ignore my posts.  I am quite grateful for what I have but the old leases are short sighted and bad, period. As to landmen, I have yet not to catch one in a lie at some point in a negotiation and yet they have almost always ended up giving us in the negotiations what they originally said they couldn't. 

The operators knew the deep rights were valuable back in the 70s as evidenced by the fact that the top leases were sold off and the deep rights were held by the original lessees because the top rights were able to preserve them.  The holders of those mineral rights never had to develop them because the stripper operators kept things going for a long time.  Those leases were both with Humble Oil.

We missed out on huge bonuses on our BHP and XTO sections because of stripper operators and two bad leases.  That hasn't happened with our independent who doesn't flare much and is very well integrated.  For this reason I am not thrilled with stripper operators but they were just making money so I can't fault them.  They didn't get the benefit of those deep rights either.  In spite of our 25% royalty and the bonuses paid by our independent, he is making money and he isn't debt funded.   You are generalizing your argument to a whole industry but without credit, nothing gets done in most businesses.  I ran my engineering business as a cash-flow positive operation but it didn't require a huge capital investment to get started.  

Finally, as to your chart, KSA started flooding the US market with increased imports in the same timeframe as oil collapsed and the Canadian oil sands were coming on strong as well.  What started as a seasonal correction in the fall, morphed into a collapse by December 2014 due to a massive increase of oil being exported to the US.  The overall production numbers are not what mattered there.  In fact, no LTO oil was being exported at the time so why would the domestic refiners buy all that KSA oil if it wasn't dumped on the market when there was all this local supply available?

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by wrs

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

The U.S. is poised to export more oil and liquids than Saudi Arabia by year-end, according to Rystad Energy.

 

The U.S. is poised to export more oil and liquids than Saudi Arabia by year-end, according to Rystad Energy.

The shift, Rystad explains, comes from continued rising production from U.S. shale plays and increased oil export capacity from the U.S. Gulf Coast.

In January, the Energy Information Administration (EIA) released its Annual Energy Outlook for 2019, in which it said in 2020, the U.S. would export more energy than it imports – the first time in almost 70 years.

Rystad believes U.S. exports will grow fast with increasingly attractive price spreads, while U.S. demand for imported heavy oil will diminish.

“The oil market is overly preoccupied with short-term U.S. crude stocks, but the big picture tells a new story. Increasingly profitable shale production and a robust global appetite for light oil and gasoline is poised to bring the U.S. to a position of oil dominance in the next few years,” Rystad Energy senior partner Per Magnus Nysveen said in a report emailed to Rigzone.

Rystad’s report noted several milestones for the U.S.:

• Since September 2018, Canada has been piping enough crude oil across the border to balance the U.S. trade deficit in oil and petroleum products
• U.S. crude exports stood at 3.6 million barrels per day (bpd) last week, which offsets the 3.5 million bpd of seaborne crude oil imports
• New pipelines are bringing more oil to Texas and Louisiana’s export hubs

“This means the U.S is destined soon to outpace Saudi Arabia when it comes to gross exports of oil and petroleum products,” Nysveen said.

Saudi Arabia currently exports 7 million bpd of crude plus 2 million bpd of NGLs and petroleum products while the U.S. exports 3 million bpd of crude and 5 million NGLs and petroleum products.

But Rystad expects U.S. oil production to grow by another 1 million bpd in 2019.

“This year’s lowered pace of oilfield activity provides support for global oil balances and crude oil prices. And regardless of the reduced investments being made in the first quarter, we will still see significant production growth in the US towards year-end,” Nysveen said.

 

https://www.smartbrief.com/branded/770E861F-CD18-4AE6-9531-4BA122801F12/9CFD789B-2EF9-4ABA-AE80-B876C84B843E

 

_____________________________________________

As long as the exports keep on happening, the companies will make profit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DanilKa + 443]

8 hours ago, wrs said:

In fact, no LTO oil was being exported at the time so why would the domestic refiners buy all that KSA oil if it wasn't dumped on the market when there was all this local supply available? 

Fig 4 and 5 here explains the reason behind Saudi oil imports while Cushing (price-setting point) was overflowing with LTO.

Edited March 9, 2019 by DanilKa

[DanilKa + 443]

11 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

price volatillity as a result of competetion is good. It's capitalism. 

Capitalism in US died while ago. When cost of money are mandated and driven down - massive misallocation of capital lead to volatile price swings. Shale in theory may act as a buffer because it takes little time to ramp up production (although its like a leaky air balloon - deflates fast; similarly to the balloon it will pop if overinflated) but ~zero interest rate offered by banks forcing pension funds and others to chaise higher yield offered by shale operators. Awash with cash and able to flip assets - that's what they do. Fact that EUR (often overstated to show low breakeven cost) does not pay for the land and wells D&C does not seem to bother anyone (except for @Mike Shellman and few others:))

When we have market-priced capital, appetite for shale will change. It will not go away but likely to get active at higher oil price level I'm expecting land price to drop substantially because drilling and completion costs are already driven to the ground.

[Ian Austin + 131]

11 hours ago, wrs said:

 

This is what the "free market" produces in the oil business, always did and always will.  You are just on the wrong end of it in th stripper business.  

So you ascribe all the fault of the oil price collapse to shale and not KSA that wildly adjusted their production in 2014 to collapse the market by flooding it and again this summer to make Trump happy?  

To interject wrs - you’re coming off as somebody who won the lottery, and is now bragging to everybody that it is because of your “genius” in picking numbers...

Right place, right time - nothing else

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 3/7/2019 at 6:33 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

● Production growth does NOT equate to profits.

This niggling little fact seems to get ignored, again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again in the U.S. Shale Oil industry.

I'm not holding my breath that Big Oil will actually be able to turn a profit along with that production growth.

Has anyone considered that if it costs a company more money to produce a product than it can sell that product for, an increase in production will be an increase in losing money for that company?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1

Yeah, they lose money on every well but they make it up in the volume. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, DanilKa said:

Capitalism in US died while ago. When cost of money are mandated and driven down - massive misallocation of capital lead to volatile price swings. Shale in theory may act as a buffer because it takes little time to ramp up production (although its like a leaky air balloon - deflates fast; similarly to the balloon it will pop if overinflated) but ~zero interest rate offered by banks forcing pension funds and others to chaise higher yield offered by shale operators. Awash with cash and able to flip assets - that's what they do. Fact that EUR (often overstated to show low breakeven cost) does not pay for the land and wells D&C does not seem to bother anyone (except for @Mike Shellman and few others:))

When we have market-priced capital, appetite for shale will change. It will not go away but likely to get active at higher oil price level I'm expecting land price to drop substantially because drilling and completion costs are already driven to the ground.

Capitalism is alive and well but the middle class is being squeezed by crony capitalists and monopolies who love cheap labor from Mexico and around the world. If the middle class does not defend itself it will continue to shrink. So far they seem too ignorant to do so. Very little time is left. 

[wrs + 893]

11 hours ago, Ian Austin said:

To interject wrs - you’re coming off as somebody who won the lottery, and is now bragging to everybody that it is because of your “genius” in picking numbers...

Right place, right time - nothing else

I am not bragging about anything.  Just offering real world case histories from shale wells I happen to be part of.  I only lease the minerals but I have to make sure that the operators are adhering to their agreements and I need to know how real the whole shale business is in order to know what I am to do with my assets.  Can I count on them as a source of revenue for the future or is it just a flash in the pan?  

I went through the internet boom and bust here in Austin during the 90s and there was free money and misallocated capital made a lot of people millionaires for a short period and then they were back to normal soon after.  I spent a lot of time at theoildrum before this shale revolution happened on my land.  So naturally I was skeptical of shale to begin with.  My independent operator drilled three wells in Wolfcamp D to start with and didn't do very well, mostly gas not much oil.  He switched the orientation of the wells, changed his frac technique and went to a different layer which is what produced the first good well we had back in 2014.  

Based on everything I read, I expected the first well to be at zero by now but it's still making 150bbl/day.  So I simply am sharing that for my independent operator, there were some setbacks but he is making money and has reinvested his cash flow.  He isn't going away anytime soon.  Cimarex is another medium size operator out there that isn't underwater and is doing it right.  Not all are and I am very surprised to see what XTO has done here.  I am simply trying to inject some real stories here at this website.  If no one is interested in hearing it then I will post it somewhere else.  Seems to me that what I am saying is counter message here more than anything else.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 hours ago, wrs said:

I am not bragging about anything.  Just offering real world case histories from shale wells I happen to be part of.  I only lease the minerals but I have to make sure that the operators are adhering to their agreements and I need to know how real the whole shale business is in order to know what I am to do with my assets.  Can I count on them as a source of revenue for the future or is it just a flash in the pan?  

I went through the internet boom and bust here in Austin during the 90s and there was free money and misallocated capital made a lot of people millionaires for a short period and then they were back to normal soon after.  I spent a lot of time at theoildrum before this shale revolution happened on my land.  So naturally I was skeptical of shale to begin with.  My independent operator drilled three wells in Wolfcamp D to start with and didn't do very well, mostly gas not much oil.  He switched the orientation of the wells, changed his frac technique and went to a different layer which is what produced the first good well we had back in 2014.  

Based on everything I read, I expected the first well to be at zero by now but it's still making 150bbl/day.  So I simply am sharing that for my independent operator, there were some setbacks but he is making money and has reinvested his cash flow.  He isn't going away anytime soon.  Cimarex is another medium size operator out there that isn't underwater and is doing it right.  Not all are and I am very surprised to see what XTO has done here.  I am simply trying to inject some real stories here at this website.  If no one is interested in hearing it then I will post it somewhere else.  Seems to me that what I am saying is counter message here more than anything else.

WRS, I think I learned a lot from your comments and I hope you will hang around. It is great to have information from different parts of the industry. I was once the guy who helped send out millions of Phillips 66 credit cards and checks to all the landowners. Now I am here to promote natural gas over oil and more expensive renewables. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

On 3/9/2019 at 5:02 AM, ceo_energemsier said:

The U.S. is poised to export more oil and liquids than Saudi Arabia by year-end, according to Rystad Energy.

The shift, Rystad explains, comes from continued rising production from U.S. shale plays and increased oil export capacity from the U.S. Gulf Coast.

In January, the Energy Information Administration (EIA) released its Annual Energy Outlook for 2019, in which it said in 2020, the U.S. would export more energy than it imports – the first time in almost 70 years.

Rystad believes U.S. exports will grow fast with increasingly attractive price spreads, while U.S. demand for imported heavy oil will diminish.

< snip >

__________________________________________

As long as the exports keep on happening, the companies will make profit.

 

< cough >

 

On 3/8/2019 at 10:33 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

● Production growth does NOT equate to profits.

This niggling little fact seems to get ignored, again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again in the U.S. Shale Oil industry.

I'm not holding my breath that Big Oil will actually be able to turn a profit along with that production growth.

Has anyone considered that if it costs a company more money to produce a product than it can sell that product for, an increase in production will be an increase in losing money for that company?

 

 

 

< coughing intensifies >

 

 

[DanilKa + 443]

On 3/9/2019 at 2:14 PM, ronwagn said:

Capitalism is alive and well but the middle class is being squeezed by crony capitalists and monopolies who love cheap labor from Mexico and around the world. If the middle class does not defend itself it will continue to shrink. So far they seem too ignorant to do so. Very little time is left. 

you are very right about crony capitalism, although I wouldn't attribute squeeze to middle class only. It is true though that separation between reach and poor are growing (it is also true that standard of living of poor has increased and there are fewer people in object poverty - Bill Gates got into trouble with lefties for highlighting this fact). You may enjoy listening to Barry Ritholtz (of Bloombergs's "Masters in Business") rant on crony capitalism on MacroVoices podcast (PG16 rating; he swears a lot:)).

Jonathan Tepper's "The Myth of Capitalism" is another good read on how cronyism give capitalism a bad name.

Sad part - people won't see nuances why current system isn't working and will vote for whoever promises to break it - that's how Trump got elected but he is just as corrupt as entire system or "deep state" found his weak spot(s) so he walked back draining the swamp and ending wars promise. Most likely it'll be left-leaning party and once those bastards are in power - there is no turning back. Pretty much like African elections - one person, one vote, one time.

[DanilKa + 443]

54 minutes ago, JJCar said:

You obviously have some "Ham and Egger" Stripper operators working your property.  The real players use the latest technology, real-time sensors and analysis, etc, etc.  Your operators ops get in get out.  There are more sophisticated drillers getting amazing results.  Prices will be coming down 2020.  If you have an interest in the technology developers are starting to employ read the Society of Petroleum Engineers Journals,. JPT AND SPE.  QUESTION if you don't mind is your royalty paid as a % oil selling price or a fixed $ per barrel or other ?

 I frac for living, not based in US and have few SPE papers to my name. If one use maxima "Engineers are as good as quality of their assumptions", judging by toxic mix of yours - you probably ain't an engineer...

[TXPower + 643]

1 hour ago, DanilKa said:

you are very right about crony capitalism, although I wouldn't attribute squeeze to middle class only. It is true though that separation between reach and poor are growing (it is also true that standard of living of poor has increased and there are fewer people in object poverty - Bill Gates got into trouble with lefties for highlighting this fact). You may enjoy listening to Barry Ritholtz (of Bloombergs's "Masters in Business") rant on crony capitalism on MacroVoices podcast (PG16 rating; he swears a lot:)).

Jonathan Tepper's "The Myth of Capitalism" is another good read on how cronyism give capitalism a bad name.

Sad part - people won't see nuances why current system isn't working and will vote for whoever promises to break it - that's how Trump got elected but he is just as corrupt as entire system or "deep state" found his weak spot(s) so he walked back draining the swamp and ending wars promise. Most likely it'll be left-leaning party and once those bastards are in power - there is no turning back. Pretty much like African elections - one person, one vote, one time.

You are too right.  The crony capitalism and lack of growth in workers wages(sharing the wealth with those who help build it) is getting so out of whack.  

For the majority of my life I have been dead set against labor unions, which in the American experience overstepped their bounds and perpetuated lazy, apathetic employees who were expensive to employ, damn hard to fire and super expensive to maintain after retirement due to lucrative benefits.  

However, the pendulum has swung back to the times and likes of which we saw from the 1800’s forward to the formation of the post-modern labor unions.  Arguably those labor unions came about because of the same crony capitalist attitudes the captains of industry of yesteryear possessed.

I have over the last 10 years begun to have a better appreciation of what led to and why the labor unions came about.  We need to strike a balance moving forward.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, DanilKa said:

you are very right about crony capitalism, although I wouldn't attribute squeeze to middle class only. It is true though that separation between reach and poor are growing (it is also true that standard of living of poor has increased and there are fewer people in object poverty - Bill Gates got into trouble with lefties for highlighting this fact). You may enjoy listening to Barry Ritholtz (of Bloombergs's "Masters in Business") rant on crony capitalism on MacroVoices podcast (PG16 rating; he swears a lot:)).

Jonathan Tepper's "The Myth of Capitalism" is another good read on how cronyism give capitalism a bad name.

Sad part - people won't see nuances why current system isn't working and will vote for whoever promises to break it - that's how Trump got elected but he is just as corrupt as entire system or "deep state" found his weak spot(s) so he walked back draining the swamp and ending wars promise. Most likely it'll be left-leaning party and once those bastards are in power - there is no turning back. Pretty much like African elections - one person, one vote, one time.

Crony capitalism is a worldwide reality, even in China. The largest capitalists have always pulled a lot of strings and not always for the good of their home country or the world. 

You are correct about the lower class having a better life than in the past. Aside from worse neighborhoods they often enjoy most of the comforts that the middle class does. Much of that is because of our costly welfare net.

I think that President Trump has worked wonders considering the fact that he has been under continuous attack by the Deep State, 90% of the media, most educators, Hollywood, government employees unions etc. 

The overreaching by the worst of the Democrats may be Trump's advantage in 2020.

 

[DanilKa + 443]

3 hours ago, TXPower said:

You are too right.  The crony capitalism and lack of growth in workers wages(sharing the wealth with those who help build it) is getting so out of whack.  

For the majority of my life I have been dead set against labor unions, which in the American experience overstepped their bounds and perpetuated lazy, apathetic employees who were expensive to employ, damn hard to fire and super expensive to maintain after retirement due to lucrative benefits.  

However, the pendulum has swung back to the times and likes of which we saw from the 1800’s forward to the formation of the post-modern labor unions.  Arguably those labor unions came about because of the same crony capitalist attitudes the captains of industry of yesteryear possessed.

I have over the last 10 years begun to have a better appreciation of what led to and why the labor unions came about.  We need to strike a balance moving forward.

I hear you but unions are not the answer - there are too many evidence of corruption among union bosses. They are the first to sell off interest of workers to large corporations - we've seen a lot of it with minimum wages (not that I support the min wages).

Downfall of Pemex may be largely attributed to unions. Guys there were joking that brain got exchanges for the union card... 

(opinions expressed here are my own and not that of an employer du jour)

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:05 PM, wrs said:

This is what the "free market" produces in the oil business, always did and always will.  You are just on the wrong end of it in th stripper business.  

William, 

I read your posts with great interest and really appreciate the perspective and for the most part I agree. However, I have seen that it is possible to develop oil-fields even when there is a ban on flaring. Even in Africa. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:05 PM, wrs said:

This is what the "free market" produces in the oil business, always did and always will.  You are just on the wrong end of it in th stripper business.  

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Rasmus Jorgensen

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:05 PM, wrs said:

This is what the "free market" produces in the oil business, always did and always will.  You are just on the wrong end of it in th stripper business.  

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Rasmus Jorgensen

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:05 PM, wrs said:

This is what the "free market" produces in the oil business, always did and always will.  You are just on the wrong end of it in th stripper business.  

William, 

I read your posts with great interest and really appreciate the perspective and for the most part I agree. However, I have seen that it is possible to develop oil-fields even when there is a ban on flaring. Even in Africa. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 3/11/2019 at 2:14 AM, TXPower said:

You are too right.  The crony capitalism and lack of growth in workers wages(sharing the wealth with those who help build it) is getting so out of whack.  

For the majority of my life I have been dead set against labor unions, which in the American experience overstepped their bounds and perpetuated lazy, apathetic employees who were expensive to employ, damn hard to fire and super expensive to maintain after retirement due to lucrative benefits.  

However, the pendulum has swung back to the times and likes of which we saw from the 1800’s forward to the formation of the post-modern labor unions.  Arguably those labor unions came about because of the same crony capitalist attitudes the captains of industry of yesteryear possessed.

I have over the last 10 years begun to have a better appreciation of what led to and why the labor unions came about.  We need to strike a balance moving forward.

I think what is needed is respect of classical liberal rigth (i.e. civil liberties). And they should be promoted on a global level. The challenge as I see is that the world is global but we seek national solutions. 

Example : If chinese citizens had the same rigths as Europeans or Americans they would sooner or later unionize, wages would go up and manufacturing jobs wouldn't be lost to China in the millions. 

The ism of the days of old sougth to extend universal rigths. Nobody today seems to care about that... 

[TXPower + 643]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:59 PM, DanilKa said:

I hear you but unions are not the answer - there are too many evidence of corruption among union bosses. They are the first to sell off interest of workers to large corporations - we've seen a lot of it with minimum wages (not that I support the min wages).

Downfall of Pemex may be largely attributed to unions. Guys there were joking that brain got exchanges for the union card... 

(opinions expressed here are my own and not that of an employer du jour)

DanilKa, yes, definitely.  I didnt mean to suggest unions are the answer.  They aren’t.  I was just expressing my understanding of what led to their formation.  Two ugly ends of the spectrum, crony capitalists on the one side and unions on the other.  Equal only in their corruption.  

[TXPower + 643]

3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I think what is needed is respect of classical liberal rigth (i.e. civil liberties). And they should be promoted on a global level. The challenge as I see is that the world is global but we seek national solutions. 

Example : If chinese citizens had the same rigths as Europeans or Americans they would sooner or later unionize, wages would go up and manufacturing jobs wouldn't be lost to China in the millions. 

The ism of the days of old sougth to extend universal rigths. Nobody today seems to care about that... 

Rasmus, I think I understand and agree with a portion of your thoughts on the matter.  

Rights, Liberty, come from our Creator and not government.  Government should only guarantee and promote those rights with which we are endowed.  This truth is lost on many of the other isms.  In the places where those other isms rule, the government magically grants “rights”.  A good example is social-ISM and the associated oft cited contention that healthcare is a right or that a “living wage” should be dictated by the government .  These, IMHO are not fundamental, god-given, rights.

Indeed the ISM of old that has brought the most prosperity and personal liberty to the world has been Capitalism.  Unfortunately, as already mentioned the current iteration, Crony Capitalism, is more an elitism and selfish at its core.

What I propose is capitalism free to create and produce those things which are found to be in demand, to explore possibilities and generate wealth.  All while capitalists rightfully recognize the inherent worth of productive and accountable employees with whom they are engaged in partnership.  Leading of course, to wages and benefits which are truly representative of such a partnership.

Of course Capitalism, as all Isms, has weaknesses and limitations chief among them is the goodness or altruism of the people in power but this is true whether discussing captains of industry or leaders of government of any flavor.  Given a choice I’ll take capitalism every time if for no other reason based on its track record alone.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

13 hours ago, TXPower said:

Rasmus, I think I understand and agree with a portion of your thoughts on the matter.  

Rights, Liberty, come from our Creator and not government.  Government should only guarantee and promote those rights with which we are endowed.  This truth is lost on many of the other isms.  In the places where those other isms rule, the government magically grants “rights”.  A good example is social-ISM and the associated oft cited contention that healthcare is a right or that a “living wage” should be dictated by the government .  These, IMHO are not fundamental, god-given, rights.

Indeed the ISM of old that has brought the most prosperity and personal liberty to the world has been Capitalism.  Unfortunately, as already mentioned the current iteration, Crony Capitalism, is more an elitism and selfish at its core.

What I propose is capitalism free to create and produce those things which are found to be in demand, to explore possibilities and generate wealth.  All while capitalists rightfully recognize the inherent worth of productive and accountable employees with whom they are engaged in partnership.  Leading of course, to wages and benefits which are truly representative of such a partnership.

Of course Capitalism, as all Isms, has weaknesses and limitations chief among them is the goodness or altruism of the people in power but this is true whether discussing captains of industry or leaders of government of any flavor.  Given a choice I’ll take capitalism every time if for no other reason based on its track record alone.

We seem to agree, but come at this from different angles. My point is that capitalism came about as a result true liberalism which extended civil liberties to people. And that's what I think we need to get back to. Making politics about macro-principles; once that is done then everything will sort itself out.