Marina Schwarz + 1,576 April 11, 2019 Congress is considering adding energy storage to its tax credit scheme. Better late than never. Here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 April 11, 2019 (edited) No! Let renewables stand on their own against natural gas. They have had lots of subsidies already. Time to stop the gravy train! Edited April 11, 2019 by ronwagn addition Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esgeo + 54 EG April 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, ronwagn said: No! Let renewables stand on their own against natural gas. They have had lots of subsidies already. Time to stop the gravy train! Just curious if you consider income tax deductions/exemptions from intangible and tangible drilling costs, lease costs, depreciation allowances, etc... "subsidies"? If I were to invest $30K on a solar system and battery, and receive a $9K tax credit, how is that so different than investing $30K in a working interest in a well and very likely decreasing my tax liability a similar amount? Isn't that also a subsidy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187 April 11, 2019 Far as I am concerned, everything other than dependents, donations, depreciation, and expenses should be eliminated from the tax code. So... Put thousands of IRS accountants out of jobs. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187 April 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, esgeo said: Just curious if you consider income tax deductions/exemptions from intangible and tangible drilling costs, lease costs, depreciation allowances, etc... "subsidies"? If I were to invest $30K on a solar system and battery, and receive a $9K tax credit, how is that so different than investing $30K in a working interest in a well and very likely decreasing my tax liability a similar amount? Isn't that also a subsidy? Difference between tax credit and tax liability now isn't there? Isn't one a percentage and the other a straight write off..... ??? << Obviously I am not an accountant .. >> 😃 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esgeo + 54 EG April 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, Wastral said: Difference between tax credit and tax liability now isn't there? Isn't one a percentage and the other a straight write off..... ??? << Obviously I am not an accountant .. >> 😃 For the Treasury's bottom line, they both equate to less revenue realized on GDP than if the subsidies/deductions/exemptions didn't exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187 April 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, esgeo said: For the Treasury's bottom line, they both equate to less revenue realized on GDP than if the subsidies/deductions/exemptions didn't exist. Dodging much? Tilting at windmills? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esgeo + 54 EG April 11, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Wastral said: Dodging much? Tilting at windmills? I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I like to think of myself as informed about what I invest in. I recognize the economics of oil and gas working interests (that I own) are sensitive to the ways the tax code is written. Edited April 11, 2019 by esgeo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marina Schwarz + 1,576 April 12, 2019 7 hours ago, ronwagn said: No! Let renewables stand on their own against natural gas. They have had lots of subsidies already. Time to stop the gravy train! The way I see it, energy storage needs to be an integral part of any renewable power installation. They just didn't think to start making it from the beginning, IÂ guess. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW April 16, 2019 On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:07 PM, ronwagn said: No! Let renewables stand on their own against natural gas. They have had lots of subsidies already. Time to stop the gravy train! Energy storage also backs up fossil fuels. What do think steps in when your CCGT trips? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW April 16, 2019 On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:45 AM, Marina Schwarz said: The way I see it, energy storage needs to be an integral part of any renewable power installation. They just didn't think to start making it from the beginning, I guess. You need back up whatever system you use (see point I made to Ron). This isn't unique to renewables. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marina Schwarz + 1,576 April 16, 2019 Didn't know they were batteries at power plants. Are there? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 April 17, 2019 15 hours ago, NickW said: Energy storage also backs up fossil fuels. What do think steps in when your CCGT trips? You don't set up a power plant with just one turbine, you enough for redundancy and you have a backup grid to rely on. Natural gas turbines are the backup for coal, wind, and solar plants. Batteries just starting to work as a backup and have not proven to be cost efficient. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW April 20, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 4:41 AM, ronwagn said: You don't set up a power plant with just one turbine, you enough for redundancy and you have a backup grid to rely on. Natural gas turbines are the backup for coal, wind, and solar plants. Batteries just starting to work as a backup and have not proven to be cost efficient. The utilities have done their homework and concluded otherwise https://energypost.eu/utilities-are-starting-to-invest-in-big-batteries-instead-of-building-new-power-plants/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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