Garbage Rout Ends in B.C.

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

Waste-to-energy plant in B.C. to handle disputed garbage from Philippines

Only fitting.

[specinho + 459]

9 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

Waste-to-energy plant in B.C. to handle disputed garbage from Philippines

Only fitting.

Quote

Jack Froese, chairman of Metro Vancouver's zero waste committee, said waste-to-energy is the best option to deal with the garbage "because there is no potential for contact with wildlife, and no potential for waste to leave the facility following disposal."

The garbage coming from the Philippines is the equivalent of about two days' worth of processing capacity at the plant in Burnaby, Metro Vancouver said.

It's odd...... Why don't they build an incinerator and burn those garbage there in the Phillipines?? 

Waste to energy is an ultra - expensive and not cost effective project especially in developed country.  Household waste is generally less due to small family trend; dieting lifestyle; successful recycling activity in some parts of the country; high operating costs; may be low burning efficiency depending on the design and etc.......

A better way could be target - incineration......... 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Today, Malaysia began shipping back containers full of waste (clean, recyclable plastic) to the countries of origin.

Many people will say 'good for them', but the fact is the waste was inspected, permitted and allowed into the country legally - it was not 'dumped'. 

There is an international trade in clean, recyclable waste. If it is felt that developed countries are 'dumping' their waste on developing countries, then ban the international trade.

But keep in mind that by banning the trade of clean waste, you will be taking jobs and livelihoods from many folks in the developing countries.

The Law of Unintended Consequences. 

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

On 5/27/2019 at 12:40 PM, specinho said:

It's odd...... Why don't they build an incinerator and burn those garbage there in the Phillipines?? 

Waste to energy is an ultra - expensive and not cost effective project especially in developed country.  Household waste is generally less due to small family trend; dieting lifestyle; successful recycling activity in some parts of the country; high operating costs; may be low burning efficiency depending on the design and etc.......

A better way could be target - incineration......... 

Do you have a source for the high costs?

[specinho + 459]

3 hours ago, BenFranklin'sSpectacles said:

Do you have a source for the high costs?

"A consortium comprised of waste to energy technology supplier, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, andSingapore water company Hyflux, has secured a S$653 million ($473 million) 27 year loan for the development, construction and start-up costs of the TuasOne waste to energy plant.May 19, 2016

https://waste-management-world.com/.../473m-finance-for-singapores-3600-tpd-tuasone...

In addition.... the operation costs would be ultra high due to high energy consumption especially if electricity and maintenance are involved. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by specinho

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Today, Malaysia began shipping back containers full of waste (clean, recyclable plastic) to the countries of origin.

Many people will say 'good for them', but the fact is the waste was inspected, permitted and allowed into the country legally - it was not 'dumped'. 

There is an international trade in clean, recyclable waste. If it is felt that developed countries are 'dumping' their waste on developing countries, then ban the international trade.

But keep in mind that by banning the trade of clean waste, you will be taking jobs and livelihoods from many folks in the developing countries.

The Law of Unintended Consequences. 

In our case (Canada) it was just plain trash - not clean recyclables as they were told.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

On 5/27/2019 at 11:40 AM, specinho said:

It's odd...... Why don't they build an incinerator and burn those garbage there in the Phillipines?? 

 

It was Canadian garbage

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

4 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

It was Canadian garbage

And who would pay for the incinerator?

[Keith boyd + 178]

I am surprised to be honest I was expecting trudeau to order the garbage shipped to alberta and stockpile the containers in richie bros auction yards hoping someone will bid $1 on the containers. 

Who gets to keep the containers anyway those things are worth $$$

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

On 5/29/2019 at 12:34 PM, specinho said:

"A consortium comprised of waste to energy technology supplier, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, andSingapore water company Hyflux, has secured a S$653 million ($473 million) 27 year loan for the development, construction and start-up costs of the TuasOne waste to energy plant.May 19, 2016

https://waste-management-world.com/.../473m-finance-for-singapores-3600-tpd-tuasone...

In addition.... the operation costs would be ultra high due to high energy consumption especially if electricity and maintenance are involved. 

The link didn't work for me.  I have some unusual plugins in my browser, so it could just be me.  Does it still work for you? 

[Rodent + 1,424]

14 minutes ago, BenFranklin'sSpectacles said:

The link didn't work for me.  I have some unusual plugins in my browser, so it could just be me.  Does it still work for you? 

Link doesn't work for me either 

[specinho + 459]

On 5/30/2019 at 4:40 AM, Enthalpic said:

It was Canadian garbage

The Philippines might have much to burn away any way (saw in a documentary on how they used months to clean up a garbage-filled-river and what they did with tones of garbage fished out - they burnt those from the river on land)....... Instead of open burning the two parties (Canada and the Philippines) could probably discuss for a concesus that an incinerator is built and co-managed by both parties. If it is cheaper to burn waste in the Philippines.... the Canadian partner could continue to send unrecyclable there....... and help manage the rate of open burning there with nominal fees.......

 

20 hours ago, BenFranklin'sSpectacles said:

The link didn't work for me.  I have some unusual plugins in my browser, so it could just be me.  Does it still work for you? 

 

20 hours ago, Rodent said:

Link doesn't work for me either 

Pardon me...... the link wasn't complete..... here is a complete one:

https://waste-management-world.com/a/473m-finance-for-singapores-3600-tpd-tuasone-waste-to-energy-plant

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, specinho said:

 If it is cheaper to burn waste in the Philippines.... the Canadian partner could continue to send unrecyclable there....... and help manage the rate of open burning there with nominal fees.......

 

It's against Canadian law to knowingly dump waste on another country.

There are exemptions, like if the waste is not particularly hazardous, or they are going to recycle it in specific ways.

Export for plain incineration is illegal.

Export for use in a waste to energy facility is legal provided it has enough energetic value

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2005-149/FullText.html

"Use as a fuel in an energy recovery system, where the net heating value of the material is at least 12 780 kJ/kg."

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 5/29/2019 at 9:09 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Many people will say 'good for them', but the fact is the waste was inspected, permitted and allowed into the country legally - it was not 'dumped'. 

Not quite.  In fact, the exporters simply lied on the shipping manifests, the bills of lading, and the export declarations.  The representation was that the material was plastics able to be recycled.  In actuality, the stuff was just ordinary bulk trash.  So there was no ability to recycle any of it.  Apparently the scheme was to simply go dump the stuff out in the jungle.  The imbalance in trade in containerized shipments between Canada and Asia means that most of the containers go back to Asia "empty."  Thus you can purchase carriage for a fully loaded container from Canada to Asia for as little as $200.  As the tipping fees inside Canada (apparently here:  B.C.) for household bulk garbage are far higher, it becomes quite profitable to ship raw bulk garbage to Asia, notwithstanding that it is 8,000 miles away.  Welcome to the modern world of global shipping. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Jan,

In today's paper a group is claiming that this 'garbage' is suitable for a 'plastics to fuel' process which they claim is permitted elsewhere in the world and is capable of turning a metric ton of plastic into 1000 litres of diesel in 24 hours, leaving only carbon black which can be utilized as a rubber hardener in tires and other synthetic rubber products (if I read it correctly). Apparently this diesel would be utilized in Malaysian cement kilns.

I have never heard of this process which apparently is mobile ( 60' long container divided into three seperate compartments) and suitable for waste of the type in question. The company claims it has been used in other locations.

I don't have the paper with me and I am replying by my phone (fat fingers syndrome). Maybe you can try to find the article. It would be in today's 'the Sun' in Malaysia.

Just wanted to let you know the continuing saga...

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

4 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

In today's paper a group is claiming that this 'garbage' is suitable for a 'plastics to fuel' process

They can claim whatever they like. The facts are that the garbage is mixed garbage, it is not directly convertible into diesel, and not at the conversion rates claimed.  The process being touted is well known, it has the generic name of Fischer-Tropsch Process, was developed by the Germans and used to run their military during WWII  (using coal as the base),  To simplify, you use carbon monoxide and add free hydrogen to craft a longer-chain molecule by aid of a catalyst, all in a reactor vessel under pressure and temperature. I doubt you can fit such a plant inside a shipping container.  And remember the reactor needs heat. You could craft the Carbon monoxide by a reduction reaction of the plastic, and create the hydrogen by stripping it from somewhere else, but remember that it is in effect a refinery, and needs the footprint and power resources of a refinery.  I would not place much reliance on some heavy-breathing article in some Malaysian newspaper titled "The Sun."  That strikes me as a dubious source for objective technical information.  

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

All true. I did not intend to infer that I agreed with the article, just thought you'd be interested in how it is playing out.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Douglas Buckland said:

All true. I did not intend to infer that I agreed with the article, just thought you'd be interested in how it is playing out.

Now that the Canadians have been thoroughly embarrassed,  Trudeau will pull out all the stops to shovel the stuff into that incinerator and it becomes a puff of smoke.  He has a big election looming, cannot afford more of this nonsense hanging about and threatening re-election prospects.  Enough is enough.  (Now, if the Feds ever find those clowns that pulled this stunt, those guys are headed for jail.)

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

The 'Malaysian Garbage' was from a variety of countries....enough embarrassment to go around.