My Rebuttal to: Trump’s Multi-Front War That Spooks Oil Markets

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

39 minutes ago, Rodent said:

Oh, my apologies. Since I am the idiot who proposed the herbicide idea, I gave myself a pass. I was confident I would not take offense. But you are correct, what a lousy role model!!

 

As the type-faces were different, I assumed you had quoted someone else (from off the forum), and thus you were not seriously advancing that idiotic proposal.  Colombia is twice the size of Spain.  It is twice the size of Texas.  You would have to convert every chemical plant in the USA and run them flat-out making Roundup and you still would have no chance of spraying all of Colombia with the stuff. The very idea is preposterous. Whoever wrote the original lines you cut and pasted was having some visceral emotional reaction, and you get that from those people on the alt-right that have this hysteria about Latin Americans and the Border  (that includes Mr. Trump).  As the definition of alt-right does not fit you, I concluded that it was tongue in cheek. 

[Rodent + 1,424]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

As the type-faces were different, I assumed you had quoted someone else (from off the forum), and thus you were not seriously advancing that idiotic proposal.  Colombia is twice the size of Spain.  It is twice the size of Texas.  You would have to convert every chemical plant in the USA and run them flat-out making Roundup and you still would have no chance of spraying all of Colombia with the stuff. The very idea is preposterous. Whoever wrote the original lines you cut and pasted was having some visceral emotional reaction, and you get that from those people on the alt-right that have this hysteria about Latin Americans and the Border  (that includes Mr. Trump).  As the definition of alt-right does not fit you, I concluded that it was tongue in cheek. 

No, I copied the actual name of the pesticide to avoid a spelling error, but it was indeed my own idea, of course tongue in cheek, as along with logistical challenges, would create far too much collateral damage. Cutting off my head during a migraine always seems like a good idea too, and while it would successfully solve my problem, it would create another, far worse one. I have oft said "If someone convinced me that shoving a red hot poker in my eye would relieve the pain I would do it in a second". Of course, the red hot poker idea is a bit fantastical. Thankfully, no one has ever called my bluff on that. 

The "alt right" phrase has kind of morphed into something for some people, and I'm not sure which definition you assign to that label. I will say, however, that I grow weary of the racist accusations (in general). Spraying an entire drug-infested country with herbicide (and one could argue it's more simple to control the source than it is the end users) has zero to do with racism. 

That said, I rarely take offense either way. I just think that throwing out the racist label is a cop out for those who do not wish to validate a concern that someone else has. It's very dismissive.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, Rodent said:

That said, I rarely take offense either way. I just think that throwing out the racist label is a cop out for those who do not wish to validate a concern that someone else has. It's very dismissive.

I remain perplexed and flummoxed by this last sentence, which is objectively true as a stand-alone.  Taking it in context of a response to my observations made to you, it would seem to be directed at me.  In all candor, I don't see how you get there.  That said, again I am bowing out of this thread, far too much emotion by the writers for me to go further.  At a certain point, it gets unproductive.  Cheers.

[Rodent + 1,424]

1 minute ago, Jan van Eck said:

I remain perplexed and flummoxed by this last sentence, which is objectively true as a stand-alone.  Taking it in context of a response to my observations made to you, it would seem to be directed at me.  In all candor, I don't see how you get there.  That said, again I am bowing out of this thread, far too much emotion by the writers for me to go further.  At a certain point, it gets unproductive.  Cheers.

I'm certainly not emotional. I remain pleasantly at peace with my views and with yours  

It's hard to convey sentiment online, but dash it all if I won't try. Yes, it was directed at you, simply because your observation that the writer of that herbicide thought: "Whoever wrote the original lines you cut and pasted was having some visceral emotional reaction, and you get that from those people on the alt-right that have this hysteria about Latin Americans and the Border." The term "alt-right" is typically used as a disparaging term for a racist. 

I'm merely pointing out that accusing "people on the alt-right" of having views simply because they are racist (as opposed to being fearful of losing something or whatever) feels dismissive. 

You may bow out if you wish, but that would make me sad. I thought we were having rather productive conversation. We certainly are not bettered by your bowing out.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 6/5/2019 at 3:44 AM, Jan van Eck said:

This is part of the slide of the USA into a South-African style of Apartheid.  The Republicans are attempting, in my view vainly, to preserve America as a white-man's paradise, and you see smatterings of that with the construction of Lake Havasu City, where blacks are totally excluded.  You see that in the refusal of the current Administration to address segregated housing and black cities that have serious economic problems, such as Gary, Indiana and Newark New Jersey; those places are effectively abandoned to their fate.  Will they succeed?  Probably. The demographic slide into a non-white, Catholic society is moving right along, with the Mexicans reclaiming the old Spanish Lands that are now California and Arizona and South Texas.  The white, typically Protestant, and essentially fascist people found inside the Republican Party (and sitting on the Trump Supreme Court) are using silver-tongued b ut irrational arguments to protect the old-school white power structure, including gerrymandering and the hysteria about "voter fraud," and their unwashed followers are swallowing it.  And you see that also in the writings here.  Ultimately, it will all fail, but the current reactionary attitudes and policies mean that the country will be suffering through more strife and torment for at least another two generations, until the "white man's republic" finally is defeated.  We are condemned to a life of pain, compliments of the Republican Party  (and, of course, by the Democrats who cannot focus on these truths, or any other truths; hard to find a political party so inept and incompetent, but hey, it is what it is.) 

Fatuous nonsense Jan. Shall I break it down for you? 

Lake Havasu can NOT exclude blacks. The federal law concerning that was passed while Trump's father still ran housing in Queens and then he was sued, for not following a law that hadn't existed. The government not only lost, they had to pay Trump's legal fees. But the very fact of the suit, was more than enough to feed the "unwashed" on your side of the ideological isle. Trump is a racist because his father was accused of racism, for doing what EVERY OTHER DEVELOPER was doing at the time. Because democrats…

Speaking of the authors and enforcers of Jim Crow laws, (Democrats, something that kids nowadays get completely wrong, thanks to a ridiculous amount of misinformation from the MSM), those failed cities you mention are ALL run by democrats, and have been for decades. Failed cities run by failed politicians from a failed ideological background need to be rescued from themselves by the opposing party why? 

There is no race card.

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, Rodent said:

The term "alt-right" is typically used as a disparaging term for a racist. 

I did not know that.  

Racial politics in America is the third rail of politics:  you go there, you electrocute yourself.  That is a good reason to not go there.  That said, since in the USA the people are obsessed with race, it gets unavoidable.   I am not obsessed with race, although it is a reality.  I look at a person's (or region's) race composition as an interesting historical background. Now, to me, the term "alt right" encompasses the politics of Anger.  You have this segment of American society that have been either discarded or left behind or forgotten, and the political establishments on both the Left and the Right in their smugness and their insolence and their vacuous disengagement from the public, and from their duties and obligations to the public, and are now devoting themselves to "identity politics,"  causes this Anger, which is especially true in those discarded groups that have serious barriers to making their own way in spite of the arrogance of the Hillary Clinton's and the Mitch McConnell's of the world.  And that Anger is very serious and very dangerous for society. The Alt-Right and the Alt-Left are rapidly becoming prone to violence, whether it is Antifa or the KKK, and society is headed for real problems.  

So, because this is such a mess, and it elicits so much Anger and emotion, I bow out of it.  Hey, I am just an immigrant here, let the people who were born here and like to wave flags of some sort go sort that out.  Cheers. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

9 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Lake Havasu can NOT exclude blacks

Suit yourself. 

The Developers' sales pitch (to white people) was subtle, but unmistakable:  "We don't have that welfare problem here." 

It was a pitch tailored specifically to whites seeking to get away from multi-racial neighborhoods in cities in California.  It is what it is. Sure, the developers cannot come right out and say:  "We refuse to sell to blacks," but they might as well have done that. It ended up in exactly the same place.  Have a nice day.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

12 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Failed cities run by failed politicians from a failed ideological background need to be rescued from themselves by the opposing party why? 

Because there are real people living in those failed cities and those real people are suffering, thus if another Party has the ability and the moxy to resolve the issues, it has an obligation as an American political Party to step up to the plate and shoulder the burden.  That's why.

And anybody who seeks to represent that the Democratic Parties that run those cities have done a bang-up job is just being ridiculous.  The Democratic (big-city) Party(ies) have been colossal, stupendous, staggering failures.  I am both disgusted and appalled by what the Democrats have done in America.  

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

16 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

There is no race card

I never said there was one.  That statement flowed from Tom Kirkman, you may not recall. 

[Rodent + 1,424]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Suit yourself. 

The Developers' sales pitch (to white people) was subtle, but unmistakable:  "We don't have that welfare problem here." 

It was a pitch tailored specifically to whites seeking to get away from multi-racial neighborhoods in cities in California.  It is what it is. Sure, the developers cannot come right out and say:  "We refuse to sell to blacks," but they might as well have done that. It ended up in exactly the same place.  Have a nice day.

That is such an interesting view. I don't know anything about the city in question so I may not have all the information. But am curious as to why the phrase  "We don't have that welfare problem here" is thought to be racist? That would totally be a selling point. I would think it was about poor vs. affluence, and what that class of individuals could mean to a developer, irrespective of race. 

I'm not suggesting that there aren't legitimate racists in the world. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Rodent said:

But am curious as to why the phrase  "We don't have that welfare problem here" is thought to be racist?

Code word for Blacks.  "Welfare problem" is code for black people.   You have been living in the countryside too long.  City people use that code word constantly. 

[Rodent + 1,424]

Just now, Jan van Eck said:

Code word for Blacks.  "Welfare problem" is code for black people.   You have been living in the countryside too long.  City people use that code word constantly. 

Interesting. I think it equally plausible that they mean just what they say. Maybe I'm naive. I mean, we DO have a welfare problem. How would I communicate that if I don't give a flying flip what race someone is? I mean, in what way would someone who wants to talk about welfare do so without drawing the ire of someone who thinks they are being racist?

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

3 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Code word for Blacks.  "Welfare problem" is code for black people.   You have been living in the countryside too long.  City people use that code word constantly. 

So, you are all for programs to push welfare people into the countryside where the jobs are in agriculture?  I am. But, how dare they displace the illegals who do not pay taxes therefore can make 30% less per hour and still make the same wages as a USA citizen... THAT is why illegal aliens need to be stopped or turned into citizens.  So we stop hollowing out our cities with welfare recipients. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, Rodent said:

Maybe I'm naive.

You are being totally naive. 

I will put that down to being one of your charms.  Nice to meet someone who is not all cynical.  Cheers. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Wastral said:

So, you are all for programs to push welfare people into the countryside where the jobs are in agriculture?  I am. But, how dare they displace the illegals who do not pay taxes therefore can make 30% less per hour and still make the same wages as a USA citizen... THAT is why illegal aliens need to be stopped or turned into citizens.  So we stop hollowing out our cities with welfare recipients. 

Please stop trolling the discussion.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 minute ago, Rodent said:

Interesting. I think it equally plausible that they mean just what they say. Maybe I'm naive. I mean, we DO have a welfare problem. How would I communicate that if I don't give a flying flip what race someone is? I mean, in what way would someone who wants to talk about welfare do so without drawing the ire of someone who thinks they are being racist?

"welfare" problem.... 1/3 of them are in California.... and can't work in AG because illegals can make 1/3 less per hour as they do not pay taxes and will always be hired first. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

7 minutes ago, Rodent said:

 I mean, in what way would someone who wants to talk about welfare do so without drawing the ire of someone who thinks they are being racist?

Because the side who wants welfare votes are racist and have been for the last century plus.  So, they blame others for their own sins.  How humanity rolls.  When you are in Collusion with Russia, blame the other side for your corruption(Uranium one)

[Stephenk + 28]

Well as I live in Texas my whole life and have seen most of this first hand I can tell you the way it being done now is not working and till people get serious about putting a stop to the one's who are running drugs across they and the one's who hire Illegals they will always have a problem and you said most drug come across in trucks and your right about that up to a point the hard drugs most of the time don't come in on trucks the stuff like weed will as they don't get in as much trouble with it but the hard drugs most of the time are brought in by foot and loaded into smaller trucks or bigger truck pass the check in station as most of them have dogs to find the drugs. but I will give them this they have started putting them in tanker trucks that are filled with oil or gas and salt water. I have a few friends that work down there and they tell me about the new ways they are seeing. Also to your point about the military shooting everyone that come across is just wrong your putting something out there that wouldn't happen because in the first place they would have a rule in place that they could not fire unless they were fire on first just like they did in the was in Iraq.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Stephenk

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

@Jan van Eck, my problem with 100% of your "dog whistle" commentary is that there is no dog to translate. I've been hearing that crap since Nixon got elected and other than super hearing Democratic operatives, no one for whom the message is intended seems to be getting it. Is a secret code any use if your recipient can never understand it? 

I jumped on the Lake Havasu comment for the quite simple reason that a friend of mine, who purchased a place there last year, is himself black. Apparently he didn't get the memo either? Since he's been added to my friends list on facebook after reuniting at a school reunion, my feed has been inundated with pictures from there, of all kinds of people of varying shades. My wife's only comment (and remember, as a Chinese woman, her shade is apparently yellow) about the place is that the women aren't wearing enough clothes, which my friend, a bachelor, seems to not find a detriment. 

Perhaps, and this is just conjecture mind you, perhaps when a Realtor tells someone what the price is, and the person blanches, telling them it's not meant for the "welfare class" is intended to humorously cover the sticker shock. No doubt my friend wants me to buy a place down there, and no question I can afford it, but our lifestyles don't exactly mesh. I've got an open invite to stay there anytime, should I take pictures of "those people" to assuage your misconceptions? Or how dearly do you wish to keep them? 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

5 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

and no question I can afford it,

Of course you can.  You are a (far) wealthier man than I.  As to the dog whistle, I took that code-word analysis straight from an article about Lake Havasu City, where a reporter went undercover in the selling phase and described the conversation, stating specifically that it was code for blacks.  And I assign full credibility to that; that was how the City was designed to be sold, an isolationist dream for a certain group of older white men.  Now, that said, that was a number of years ago, when it was first being developed.  Decades at this point.  What happens today, and in the resale market, is up to the buyers and sellers.  It is not as if there is some covenant to the land acting as a prohibition.  

In all candor, Ward, I really don't care.  At this point I am getting fed up with America and may well abandon the place, move to Quebec, which is less than fifty miles away. On a strictly personal level, I don't fit in and I and my talents are not appreciated.  Just for example, they are not appreciated on this Community Forum.  I am not as thick-skinned as you might think.  And right about now, it is starting to wear.  What do I need it for?  I am an old guy, and will die soon enough.  As Humphrey Bogart said when informed "You will die here," he responded: "What of it. This is a good place for it."  (That was in Casablanca.)   You are eminently qualified to take over,  smarter than me, richer than me, dramatically better married than me, so go ahead.  And as far as I am concerned, Lake Havasu City and the rest of it including Mr. Trump's Wall can go float down the Colorado River, see if I care.  None of it is my problem. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Jan van Eck

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

38 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

should I take pictures of "those people"

You can take as many pictures as you like.  Just for the record, I am a white guy.  Very white. You may have heard of the "Red Tails," a squadron of all-black fighter pilots assigned to bomber escort over Italy.  A movie was made about them. Today the outgrowth is the Black Pilot's Club, with squadrons in most States.  I was asked to be Club Secretary, which I was for a number of years.  I was actually asked to be Club President, but I demurred, hardly proper for a guy as white, complete with blond hair and deep blue eyes, as I am to be the President of a black pilot's club. Please, don't preach to me about America's ongoing race problems. I cannot solve them.  

[D Coyne + 305]

On 6/4/2019 at 8:36 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

No, not "so what". I disagree that illegal immigrants have a right to vote.  Voting should be a right reserved for citizens and authorized residents.

Democrats Vote To Give Illegal Immigrants The Right To Vote

Update: House Democrats voted Friday to defend localities that allow illegal immigrants to vote in their elections, turning back a GOP attempt to discourage the practice. As The Washington Times reports, the vote marks a stunning reversal from just six months ago, when the chamber - then under GOP control - voted to decry illegal immigrant voting.

“We are prepared to open up the political process and let all of the people come in,”Rep. John Lewis, a Georgia Democrat and hero of the civil rights movement, told colleagues as he led opposition to the GOP measure.

Texas Republican. Rep. Dan Crenshaw raged:

“It sounds like I’m making it up. What kind of government would cancel the vote of its own citizens, and replace it with noncitizens?”

Tom,

If you don't live in SanFrancisco, your opinion matters not.  Generally in a Democracy the representatives elected by the citizens decide on the rules.  If those representatives decide that people whose children go to schools in SanFrancisco should be able to participate in school board elections, they are free to make that choice, or there can be a local referendum.

I happen to think Democracy is a good idea, though you may disagree.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

52 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Please, don't preach to me about America's ongoing race problems. I cannot solve them.  

I wouldn't dream of preaching to You, does this mean you'll stop preaching to me? The only other Van Eck I ever knew of was South African, Arnold. Perhaps you're related? I've heard South Africa has race problems, as does Zimbabwe and several other places I could name, including China and Japan. Seems to be a thing, associated with humans. 

My friend had a boat at the Jackson Park Yacht Club in South Chicago. He invited me there and I arrived about an hour earlier than him, he was delayed by traffic I guess. I was the only white guy there and got to make lots of friends with people of "color" until my friend, also "of color" could arrive. I believe people are people but can't even count the number of times I've been accused of being a racist. Because accusations are cheap, and therefore meaningless. My wife has been very upset with that accusation, because she's known me almost 40 years and has seen me in every situation. Since I "bothered" to learn Mandarin, I've gotten to hear up close and personal what some Chinese think of me, and mixed marriages in general, when they didn't think I could understand. People are people wherever you go, and in Quebec you'll get the added flavor of francophiles who despise the English speakers as well. Cause it's not always race either…

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

On 6/6/2019 at 5:09 AM, Rodent said:

oh please. herbicide? What idiot proposed that idea? That's just silly.

 

8 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Not to complain overmuch, but when I evinced similar wording, substituting a synonym for "idiot", you gave me a permanent warning. When I later said someone's understanding wasn't deep enough, you banned me for 3 days. The rules of this road are anything but clear

 

8 hours ago, Rodent said:

Oh, my apologies. Since I am the idiot who proposed the herbicide idea, I gave myself a pass. I was confident I would not take offense. But you are correct, what a lousy role model!!

 

 

My bad, I'm the idiot who quoted the word "idiot" before on this forum a few times, and apparently I forgot to close the bag. 

Time for me to pay closer attention to the "DO NOT DUMB HERE" sign.

https://community.oilprice.com/search/?&q=Idiot&author=Tom Kirkman&search_and_or=or

 

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

On 6/6/2019 at 9:04 AM, Rodent said:

That's....... bleak

That's humanity.  🙂