Russia removes special military forces from Venezuela . . . . Maduro gone by September ? . . . Oil starts to flow ? Think so . .

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On 6/14/2019 at 5:31 AM, tldpdb1 said:

The Geopolitical problem here is Much more a Putin Problem.  Russia's Geographical and Historical Position is Different than Europe's. Ukraine as a part of The EU would check Putin's Westward expansion and is Generaly all that is Truly needed.  Hopefully in time The Russian People will come to there senses and get rid of there Eastern Biases and Rid themselves of the Dictatorial Yoke that has held them Back for a Millennium. The Ukrainian's should have let The Crimea go back to Russia a long time ago.  This Mess could have been avoided.

No. Neverending NATO eastward expansion is single biggest threat to Russia national security and nowadays biggest problem for peace in Europe.

Its not a Putin problem because both russian elites and society see NATo as hostile military alliance and a tool of US dominance.

As I said its threat for national security and it doesnt matter who rules Russia this country will never agree Ukraine  joining NATO. NEVER.

You really cant blame Putin if you violated an agreement made with Gorbachov to not expand NATO even one ich eastward.  This a true reason for new Cold War in Europe.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russia-fsu/2014-08-18/why-ukraine-crisis-west-s-fault

 

Edited by Tomasz
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(edited)

4 hours ago, Tomasz said:

No. Neverending NATO eastward expansion is single biggest threat to Russia national security and nowadays biggest problem for peace in Europe.

Its not a Putin problem because both russian elites and society see NATo as hostile military alliance and a tool of US dominance.

As I said its threat for national security and it doesnt matter who rules Russia this country will never agree Ukraine  joining NATO. NEVER.

You really cant blame Putin if you violated an agreement made with Gorbachov to not expand NATO even one ich eastward.  This a true reason for new Cold War in Europe.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russia-fsu/2014-08-18/why-ukraine-crisis-west-s-fault

 

2 parts to my reply        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita   Look at the Map...that is the Reason Ukraine wants to join The EU and not the Russian aligned Economic Block.  Ukraine doesn't need to join NATO to become a Wealthy Democracy If Russia Leaves it alone.  The Second Part is Below

"Hopefully in time The Russian People will come to there senses and get rid of there Eastern Biases and Rid themselves of the Dictatorial Yoke that has held them Back for a Millennium."   Did you read this part of my Quote?  The Russian People have Eastern Biases, That is a Deference to Authority and Authoritarianism.  Be it the Czars and the Church, The Communist Party or the One Party Dictatorship of Putin.  This is you're problem not NATO.  NATO is a agreement among Democracy's to gather together in Defense against Dictatorship's.  The Russian People were on a Path to becoming a Democracy and The Russian Military even had Observer Status in NATO.  Putin in 2000 even suggested to President Clinton that Russia Join NATO.  But I guess he would rather Steal all he can from the Russian People and hide his ill gotten Gains behind his Dictatorship rather than help his People become a Rich Stable Democracy like the rest of Eastern Europe.  THROW OFF THE YOKE!  

  

Edited by tldpdb1
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On 6/3/2019 at 9:36 PM, Falcon said:

Guaido is a socialist  . . . but I wouldn’t say he’s no different.

Maduro turning more Fascist. 

I think Guaido will give more autonomy and control to Chevron and Rosneft .  .  . He will have to if he wants to rebuild oil industry and economy. 

This all could happen before September. Maduro already had his luggage packed and reservations to Cuba before Russia talked him out of it. Russia just looking to secure their loan. That is now done

Maduro turned most privately owned assets including oil into national treasures in three days or less (if not mistaken)............ This has been the major reason why Venezuela is in such a big trouble. Shall those who are interested to teach them how to do it properly and what to do after that...... for example.......... there is 365 days in a year...... those tasks could have been separated on specialization and for jobs creation purposes....... :o:$........... Maduro could be .......... surprisingly.........the local champion and leader.............

Shall the demised Cuban leader still alive...... Maduro would have invited him to Venezuela for a like mindedness gathering and not the other way round....... O.o

On 6/4/2019 at 4:53 AM, ronwagn said:

It seems to me that Russia has a lot more to gain by playing with the West than relying too much on an alliance with China. China could harm Russia in many ways. Imagine if they stopped buying their natural gas and oil.  

China and Russia become good friends if not  best when the west tried to sanction Russia for something Russia might or might not have done........ They signed a deal for may be 50 years...... no short term worry there............ 

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(edited)

Im sorry Western leaders broke agreement made with Gorbachov to not expand NATO to the east.

This is a single most important reason for new Cold War.

Its defence of Russia most core interests in near abroad not authoritarism.

I know people in USA think there are exceptional nation but other country also have national interests and Ukraine is case of this.

As I said if you want Ukraine to join NATO you have to first win WW3 because Russia will never leave Ukraine alone to join histile military alliance. NEVER.

Because enough is enough and you cant breach Russia most important national interests all the time and expect no response.

The response is new Cold War and russian-chinese strategic alliance against NATO. High price for expanding your sphere of infuence eastward.

 

Quote

 

Foreign Affairs; Now a Word From X

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMANMAY 2, 1998

His voice is a bit frail now, but the mind, even at age 94, is as sharp as ever. So when I reached George Kennan by phone to get his reaction to the Senate's ratification of NATO expansion it was no surprise to find that the man who was the architect of America's successful containment of the Soviet Union and one of the great American statesmen of the 20th century was ready with an answer.

''I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,'' said Mr. Kennan from his Princeton home. ''I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. This expansion would make the Founding Fathers of this country turn over in their graves. We have signed up to protect a whole series of countries, even though we have neither the resources nor the intention to do so in any serious way. [NATO expansion] was simply a light-hearted action by a Senate that has no real interest in foreign affairs.''

''What bothers me is how superficial and ill informed the whole Senate debate was,'' added Mr. Kennan, who was present at the creation of NATO and whose anonymous 1947 article in the journal Foreign Affairs, signed ''X,'' defined America's cold-war containment policy for 40 years. ''I was particularly bothered by the references to Russia as a country dying to attack Western Europe. Don't people understand? Our differences in the cold war were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime.

''And Russia's democracy is as far advanced, if not farther, as any of these countries we've just signed up to defend from Russia,'' said Mr. Kennan, who joined the State Department in 1926 and was U.S. Ambassador to Moscow in 1952. ''It shows so little understanding of Russian history and Soviet history. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are -- but this is just wrong.''

One only wonders what future historians will say. If we are lucky they will say that NATO expansion to Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic simply didn't matter, because the vacuum it was supposed to fill had already been filled, only the Clinton team couldn't see it. They will say that the forces of globalization integrating Europe, coupled with the new arms control agreements, proved to be so powerful that Russia, despite NATO expansion, moved ahead with democratization and Westernization, and was gradually drawn into a loosely unified Europe. If we are unlucky they will say, as Mr. Kennan predicts, that NATO expansion set up a situation in which NATO now has to either expand all the way to Russia's border, triggering a new cold war, or stop expanding after these three new countries and create a new dividing line through Europe.

Continue reading the main story
 
 

But there is one thing future historians will surely remark upon, and that is the utter poverty of imagination that characterized U.S. foreign policy in the late 1990's. They will note that one of the seminal events of this century took place between 1989 and 1992 -- the collapse of the Soviet Empire, which had the capability, imperial intentions and ideology to truly threaten the entire free world. Thanks to Western resolve and the courage of Russian democrats, that Soviet Empire collapsed without a shot, spawning a democratic Russia, setting free the former Soviet republics and leading to unprecedented arms control agreements with the U.S.

 

And what was America's response? It was to expand the NATO cold-war alliance against Russia and bring it closer to Russia's borders.

Yes, tell your children, and your children's children, that you lived in the age of Bill Clinton and William Cohen, the age of Madeleine Albright and Sandy Berger, the age of Trent Lott and Joe Lieberman, and you too were present at the creation of the post-cold-war order, when these foreign policy Titans put their heads together and produced . . . a mouse.

We are in the age of midgets. The only good news is that we got here in one piece because there was another age -- one of great statesmen who had both imagination and courage.

As he said goodbye to me on the phone, Mr. Kennan added just one more thing: ''This has been my life, and it pains me to see it so screwed up in the end.''

 

 

MARCH 17, 2017 12:41PM

 

Quote

 

NATO Expansion Is Unwise. Saying So Isn’t Treasonous.

Ad hominem has always been a feature of politics, but Senator John McCain (R-AZ) elevated it to a new level earlier this week. The incident occurred when McCain came to the Senate floor to ask for unanimous consent to move forward on a vote formally bringing Montenegro, a small country in the Balkans, into the NATO alliance. Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) objected. McCain responded by suggesting Paul was a traitor to his country and accusing him of “working for Vladimir Putin.”

McCain seemed particularly incensed that Paul objected without explaining his reasons. As reported at the Daily Beast:

“I note the senator from Kentucky leaving the floor without justification or any rationale for the action he has just taken. That is really remarkable, that a senator blocking a treaty that is supported by the overwhelming number—perhaps 98, at least, of his colleagues—would come to the floor and object and walk away.”

He then directly connected Paul to the Russian government: “The only conclusion you can draw when he walks away is he has no justification for his objection to having a small nation be part of NATO that is under assault from the Russians.

“So I repeat again, the senator from Kentucky is now working for Vladimir Putin.”

Paul later issued a statement in response:

“Currently, the United States has troops in dozens of countries and is actively fighting in Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Yemen (with the occasional drone strike in Pakistan)…In addition, the United States is pledged to defend 28 countries in NATO. It is unwise to expand the monetary and military obligations of the United States given the burden of our $20 trillion debt.”

That seems like a reasonable position to hold, and certainly not one that requires Paul to be a Russian stooge.

Indeed, many of America’s most reputable officials and academics have opposed post-Cold War NATO expansion for substantive reasons. George Kennan, perhaps our most famous Cold War diplomat and widely considered to be the father of the United States’ containment strategy, famously opposed NATO expansion in the 1990s, writingin the New York Times that expanding NATO would be a “fateful error” that would “inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion” and “restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations.” Like Senator Paul, Kennan also worried about the problems of credibility and overextension. Would McCain accuse Kennan of treason?

In 1995, a group of almost two dozen retired Foreign Service, State Department, and Department of Defense officers who served during the Cold War signed an open letteropposing NATO expansion on grounds similar to Paul and Kennan. They argued it risked exacerbating instability and “convincing most Russians that the United States and the West are attempting to isolate, encircle, and subordinate them.” The signatories included Paul H. Nitze, former Secretary of the Navy and Deputy Secretary of Defense, as well as Jack F. Matlock, Jr., former Ambassador to the USSR, and John A. Armitage, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs. Were these gentlemen also secret Russian moles?

Within the academic international relations literature, there are a host of reasons to be skeptical of the wisdom of NATO expansion. Contrary to advocates of expansion, there is little reason to believe NATO expansion spreads democracy. Furthermore, scholars widely acknowledge that, in an attempt to expand Western security cooperation and deter Russian assertiveness in Eastern Europe, NATO expansion feeds Russian insecurities and provokes Moscow to take actions to preserve its sphere of influence in its near abroad. As Jonathan Masters of the Council on Foreign Relations explains, Putin cited NATO expansion to justify Russia’s military interventions in Georgia and Ukraine, a “clear signal of Moscow’s intentions to protect what it sees as its sphere of influence.”

Beyond the classic security dilemma, NATO expansion does not serve U.S. interests. Expanding security commitments to more European states puts U.S. credibility on the line with little to no strategic benefits in return. What happens in Montenegro does not affect our security as a nation, except that by taking on additional responsibilities to defend other countries, we risk being sucked into unnecessary conflicts that could otherwise be avoided. As MIT’s Barry Posen explains, “Once committed to defend allies everywhere, a state becomes obsessed with its political and military prestige, and vulnerable to the claim that ‘small’ wars must be fought in the hope of deterring large ones. This is especially true when the actual strategic value of these allies is modest.”

Notwithstanding Russia’s reprehensible actions in places like Georgia and Ukraine, Europe is a relatively benign security environment that doesn’t need to be under the American security umbrella. To the extent that Europe needs military capabilities to deter Russian aggression, the region is rich and powerful enough to provide for its own security.

It would be a shame if sensible, earnest, and well-informed perspectives continue to be shut out of the debate by slanderous accusations that opposition to NATO expansion is a signpost for treason.

 

 

Edited by Tomasz
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IMHO Russia is basically a fascist dictatorship. It is much like a poor Germany without the great economy. It has always invaded other lands before and after WW1 and WW2. It's purges are historical facts. Millions of innocents died in gulags and from starvation due to Stalin and those that preceded him. Putin turned Russian Democracy into a sham just as XI has become the new Emperor for life of China. 

Ukraine refused to let Russia make it a puppet state. It knows how Russia operates and fought back. Russia needs to be stopped before it knocks down any more doors. It has an economy the size of Spain, and should focus on improving the life of the Russian people. They would benefit far more by dealing peacefully with the West than only with China.

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(edited)

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Edited by Bartosz
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On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 7:02 AM, Tomasz said:

Tomasz you are focusing on NATO because you have No defense of Ukraine's true crime, which is not Joining Russia's Economic Block of Backward Poor Dictatorships because of the Majority of the Ukraine's Peoples desire to Join the EU which is a block of Rich Democracies. Which of course is something Putin decided is a bad thing for the Russian People.

 

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