Ireland To Ban New Petrol And Diesel Vehicles From 2030

[BlackTortoise + 103]

The Irish government plans to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030, as part of their Climate Action Plan. This plan  is a roadmap to achieve 2030 emissions targets and will put Ireland "on a trajectory to achieve net zero carbon emissions by 2050".   

Ireland which is "currently 85% dependent on fossil fuels, " plans to have 950,000 electric vehicles on Irish roads by 2030. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48668791 

[markslawson + 1,058]

3 hours ago, BlackTortoise said:

The Irish government plans to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030, as part of their Climate Action Plan. This plan  is a roadmap to achieve 2030 emissions targets and will put Ireland "on a trajectory to achieve net zero carbon emissions by 2050".   

Ireland which is "currently 85% dependent on fossil fuels, " plans to have 950,000 electric vehicles on Irish roads by 2030. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48668791 

Something is going to happen in 11 years? That's three or four governments away, and governments in Ireland have a long history of setting targets for EVs that are not met. This is from the Irish Examiner in January.

A decade ago, waving the flag of uncosted positivity that is never be held to account, Government suggested that by next year 10% of the car fleet — 200,000 or so vehicles — would be electric. In 2014, that target was reduced to 50,000. Last year, it was cut to 20,000 but even that 10% of the 2008 target is well beyond our reach. Only an estimated 8,000 electric vehicles will be in use in 2020. New charges at public top-up power points can only undermine those ambitions further.

Glanced at the plan. The requirements for new charging points would seem to be completely inadequate. If the Irish do go ahead with this plan, and it is unlikely to survive - similar plans by the Labor opposition in Australia did not last for more than a couple of weeks before undergoing major changes, then being downgraded to "aspirational" targets - they will need charging points by the millions not the thousands. 

[Adam Varga + 123]

Ireland is one of the worst performing European countries when it comes to environmental issues.  The Green Party doing well in recent European elections has the Government falling over themselves to appear as green as possible. 

[Brian W + 78]

Electric cars seem like a good fit for smaller island nations like Ireland, where it's only a few hundred km max to get anywhere. If you go from far south to the far north it comes to around 750 km which could be done in a single charge.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by Brian W

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I wonder how this is going to impact the present 'efficiency' of the trucking fleet and getting goods around the country?

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Looks like Ireland might be a great market for my electric bicycle division!  Those machine will run at 45 mph which is just about as fast as you would want to go on those Irish country roads anyway.  I'm just waiting for the subsidies to be announced........

[NickW + 2,714]

7 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Looks like Ireland might be a great market for my electric bicycle division!  Those machine will run at 45 mph which is just about as fast as you would want to go on those Irish country roads anyway.  I'm just waiting for the subsidies to be announced........

Won't be legal. Electric bikes are limited to 15mph.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, NickW said:

Won't be legal. Electric bikes are limited to 15mph.

So is drunken driving.  Since when do the Irish (or the Americans) pay any attention to what is "legal"?  

And P.S.:  you can go as fast as you want as long as you buy a plate and have an operator's permit and liability insurance.  But I do neither and neither do any of my customers, they 100% ignore those silly Regulations.  Hey, catching before hanging!   Rules are made to be broken.

[NickW + 2,714]

10 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

So is drunken driving.  Since when do the Irish (or the Americans) pay any attention to what is "legal"?  

And P.S.:  you can go as fast as you want as long as you buy a plate and have an operator's permit and liability insurance.  But I do neither and neither do any of my customers, they 100% ignore those silly Regulations.  Hey, catching before hanging!   Rules are made to be broken.

Then you have turned it into a motor Vehicle.

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

26 minutes ago, NickW said:

Then you have turned it into a motor Vehicle.

 

So what, Nick?   

The whole idea of "going electric" is to minimize liquid fuels burn.  That bike accomplishes that.  If stuffy bureaucrats at the DMV don't like it, hey too bad. 

[NickW + 2,714]

18 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

So what, Nick?   

The whole idea of "going electric" is to minimize liquid fuels burn.  That bike accomplishes that.  If stuffy bureaucrats at the DMV don't like it, hey too bad. 

Ok Jan - keep your finger in the dyke.

I am just advising you that if you plan to develop something for a commercial market with regulatory controls its best to develop within those limitations,

Bicycles - as we know them are limited to a speed of 15mph and have to be peddle assisted. If not and they go faster what you have developed is an electric motorbike - which requires a licence, insurance, motor vehicle test etc.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, NickW said:

Bicycles - as we know them are limited to a speed of 15mph and have to be peddle assisted. If not and they go faster what you have developed is an electric motorbike - which requires a licence, insurance, motor vehicle test etc.

And now you know why I have a set of pedals and a chain and even a derailleur and set of cluster gears on the back wheel:  makes it look for all the world like a regular bicycle!   (All connected and actually functional, but nobody uses them.)   I advise customers to pedal like mad when they run near a cop, so it looks like a bicycle.  We call it "clown pedalling!"  

Nick, all new technology always runs afoul of turgid bureaucrats.  I recall the story of a guy who built his own electric car, many years ago, using lead-acid batteries, took it to the DMV for the Inspection Sticker, the inspector looked underneath and saw it had no "exhaust system," so it failed the test and was not issued a plate!   You get that from bureaucrats.

Thus the drill is to build it anyway, ignore the bureaucrats, and eventually the bureaucracy catches up with the technology.  In the meantime, hey, enjoy the ride!  (OK, so don't take it on the Interstate, everything has limits!).

[markslawson + 1,058]

22 hours ago, Brian W said:

far south to the far north it comes to around 750 km which could be done in a single charge.  

That's a bit hopeful. The long-range Tesla 3 is supposed to be able to run a touch over 520 kilometres on one charge, and you'll find that's under ideal conditions (straight run, good weather), and without anyone foolishly turning on the air conditioning or heating. Two charges would be more likely and three is a safe bet..  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 6/19/2019 at 2:58 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

I wonder how this is going to impact the present 'efficiency' of the trucking fleet and getting goods around the country?

Simple, just convert the trucks  to natural gas. Bring in experienced conversion companies. The same could be done with ICE automobiles for that matter. Import LNG fuel. I am not a big fan of electric cars. They would put an unrealistic strain on the grid, but they can go for it if they want to. 

https://www.trustarenergy.com/cng-stations/

http://www.ngvglobal.com/

http://www.ngvglobal.com/blog/cwi-isx12n-natural-gas-engine-performance-confirmed-in-new-study-0926 

Edited June 24, 2019 by ronwagn
reference

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

32 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Simple, just convert the trucks  to natural gas. Bring in experienced conversion companies. The same could be done with ICE automobiles for that matter. Import LNG fuel. I am not a big fan of electric cars. They would put an unrealistic strain on the grid, but they can go for it if they want to. 

https://www.trustarenergy.com/cng-stations/

http://www.ngvglobal.com/

http://www.ngvglobal.com/blog/cwi-isx12n-natural-gas-engine-performance-confirmed-in-new-study-0926 

Last article mentions 'when the engine operates on renewable natural gas....'

What is 'renewable natural gas'?

[ronwagn + 6,290]

That is biogas which is made from any waste stream that is appropriate. Usually from dairies and hog farms, but could be from any organic source. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N-TLMeHsKYBCirxS0vbqMGHpU2SmyLuCc7bqp8eYXVM/edit

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 6/18/2019 at 5:12 PM, BlackTortoise said:

The Irish government plans to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030,

Doing that will guarantee the import of used cars and trucks from wherever they have the same drive-side  (In Ireland they apparently still drive on the left side of the road, silly fellows).  Those used cars will inevitably have worn motors with lower quality emissions controls, thus resulting in more pollution than if they had simply let the market do its thing.  To the extent that used diesel cars and trucks are imported, you can anticipate the widespread use of alternative diesel fuels to escape the high road-fuel tax. Where will these used vehicles come from?  Probably from Japan. 

[nathan_john + 26]

On 6/19/2019 at 6:27 AM, Jan van Eck said:

And now you know why I have a set of pedals and a chain and even a derailleur and set of cluster gears on the back wheel:  makes it look for all the world like a regular bicycle!   (All connected and actually functional, but nobody uses them.)   I advise customers to pedal like mad when they run near a cop, so it looks like a bicycle.  We call it "clown pedalling!"  

Nick, all new technology always runs afoul of turgid bureaucrats.  I recall the story of a guy who built his own electric car, many years ago, using lead-acid batteries, took it to the DMV for the Inspection Sticker, the inspector looked underneath and saw it had no "exhaust system," so it failed the test and was not issued a plate!   You get that from bureaucrats.

Thus the drill is to build it anyway, ignore the bureaucrats, and eventually the bureaucracy catches up with the technology.  In the meantime, hey, enjoy the ride!  (OK, so don't take it on the Interstate, everything has limits!).

Where can I get one of these bikes? Are they available in the US?

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

6 hours ago, nathan_john said:

Where can I get one of these bikes? Are they available in the US?

Sure.  I build them to order.  Costs you six thousand.  Right-side drive, of course!  (USA standard.)  

If you want the side-car version, then that will likely take another two years before they are ready to roll.  Cheers.

[Bill the Science Nerd + 73]

On 6/19/2019 at 3:58 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

I wonder how this is going to impact the present 'efficiency' of the trucking fleet and getting goods around the country?

Vast improvement.

[Bill the Science Nerd + 73]

20 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Doing that will guarantee the import of used cars and trucks from wherever they have the same drive-side  (In Ireland they apparently still drive on the left side of the road, silly fellows).  Those used cars will inevitably have worn motors with lower quality emissions controls, thus resulting in more pollution than if they had simply let the market do its thing.  To the extent that used diesel cars and trucks are imported, you can anticipate the widespread use of alternative diesel fuels to escape the high road-fuel tax. Where will these used vehicles come from?  Probably from Japan. 

Any company that looks at Total Cost of Ownership will get electric instead.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

5 minutes ago, Bill the Science Nerd said:

Any company that looks at Total Cost of Ownership will get electric instead.

OK, fine, let's grant you that argument.  "Companies" still remain the smallest component of auto ownership.  All the individuals out there will simply import used cars and vans from somewhere else - especially Japan.  The Japanese Govt has instituted an administrative Regulation that no auto engine may be over 50,000 miles.  At that point, the old engine has to be yanked out and a new one dropped in.  So you have this quantity of used motors out there, all with less than 50,000 miles on them, available on the world market on the cheap.  I picked up a nice Subaru H-6 engine retail in the USA sourced from japan, thus has mark-ups in there for at least two levels of brokers, for about $850.  For a low-mileage engine, that is a gift.  

If Ireland autos do not deteriorate greatly with age  (and I suspect there is little road salt used in Ireland), then the chassis lasts for over 20 years, and if that original engine is high-mileage and worn out, you will have this thriving industry of used motors being imported from Japan and replacing the fleet. And if that does not work, then used cars from places such as Australia will be shipping in to Ireland.  That is the folly of these draconian laws that legislators do for feel-good aura - they all have these unintended consequences.  Bottom line: nobody is going to dump perfectly good autos just to feel good about having a new electric one.  The public does not have the money for that. 

[Bill the Science Nerd + 73]

35 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

OK, fine, let's grant you that argument.  "Companies" still remain the smallest component of auto ownership.  All the individuals out there will simply import used cars and vans from somewhere else - especially Japan.  The Japanese Govt has instituted an administrative Regulation that no auto engine may be over 50,000 miles.  At that point, the old engine has to be yanked out and a new one dropped in.  So you have this quantity of used motors out there, all with less than 50,000 miles on them, available on the world market on the cheap.  I picked up a nice Subaru H-6 engine retail in the USA sourced from japan, thus has mark-ups in there for at least two levels of brokers, for about $850.  For a low-mileage engine, that is a gift.  

If Ireland autos do not deteriorate greatly with age  (and I suspect there is little road salt used in Ireland), then the chassis lasts for over 20 years, and if that original engine is high-mileage and worn out, you will have this thriving industry of used motors being imported from Japan and replacing the fleet. And if that does not work, then used cars from places such as Australia will be shipping in to Ireland.  That is the folly of these draconian laws that legislators do for feel-good aura - they all have these unintended consequences.  Bottom line: nobody is going to dump perfectly good autos just to feel good about having a new electric one.  The public does not have the money for that. 

By 2021, EVs will be at cost parity and some 10 million will be available globally. I doubt Ireland will have to do much to make its goal.

[Refman + 207]

On 6/23/2019 at 9:56 PM, Jan van Eck said:

Doing that will guarantee the import of used cars and trucks from wherever they have the same drive-side  (In Ireland they apparently still drive on the left side of the road, silly fellows).  Those used cars will inevitably have worn motors with lower quality emissions controls, thus resulting in more pollution than if they had simply let the market do its thing.  To the extent that used diesel cars and trucks are imported, you can anticipate the widespread use of alternative diesel fuels to escape the high road-fuel tax. Where will these used vehicles come from?  Probably from Japan. 

I'm not aware of the exact wording of the upcoming regulations, but they could easily just refuse to register any imported gas and diesel cars. There again, maybe the loophole exists.

 

Wasn't Norway thinking about doing the same thing in 2025?

Edited June 26, 2019 by Refman

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, Refman said:

but they could easily just refuse to register any imported gas and diesel cars

So what will happen is:  the existing jalopy will be a Volkswagen Jetta,  The Irish motorist then sources another Volks Jetta.  the plates from the old clunker get put on the new one.  A specialized "dark agent" lifts the vehicle ID from the wreck and installs it on the import.  Registration?  What registration?  

Also, don't forget, the Irish have these well-honed skills in assassination.  I would not want to be the DMV clerk that refuses to register the car of some IRA gunman.  Lots of those guys around, and nobody kept a log, now did they?