U.S. vs China: Total Trade War?!

[tldpdb1 + 24]

32 minutes ago, James Regan said:

TiDpiT.... Calm down and take a breath mate, no need to go for the jugular.

Im on your side FFS

LOL....had to look up FFS..I don't post that much....I was just Making a Historical point....Most People don't know much about History, luv getting a chance to Teach them.   You're on My side?   Do you think that China's Political and Economic System has to go? I Do...Thru Tariffs or Bullets

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, tldpdb1 said:

LOL....had to look up FFS..I don't post that much....I was just Making a Historical point....Most People don't know much about History, luv getting a chance to Teach them.   You're on My side?   Do you think that China's Political and Economic System has to go? I Do...Thru Tariffs or Bullets

Perhaps you should post more. Enjoyed you comments.

[JR EWING + 123]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 3:38 AM, SKEP said:

Brazil became #1 exporter of soybeans before Trump was elected. 

China buys US oil thru commodities trading house Trafigura.  Rest of Asia buys US oil and will buy more when export capacity increases. 

The abusive, predatory win at all cost tactics of China are more dangerous than you understand. 

US Tariffs are simply doing what all other industrial nations do now.  

China and the world scream "Free Trade"  now that US wants to level the playing field. 

It's like NATO. Europe loves NATO when US pays for it, does the fighting  for it and sacrifices the soldiers lives for it. But balks when US asked them to put a little skin in the game.

US Presidents established a bad precedent in the past.  They always caved. They needed to please.  I think they had father abandonment issues or mommy issues.

The price of soybeans will continue down.  Can't stop that.

The price of oil and gas will continue down. Can't stop that.

The cost of doing nothing will hurt US in spades down the road. 

Unfortunately, the farmers will pay the price.  Actually, the Federal  farmers relief program should cover some of the damage.

Give it a chance.  Trump is holding the better hand.  This will work out. With the new 25% tariffs and the new 10% tariffs will provide plenty for farm relief.

Some companies will balk . . . but are they reallyUS companies if they bailed on US for slave labor wages and avoidance of corporate income tax.

NO MACHISOMO

NO PROVING A POINT

JUST A LITTLE COMMON SENSE

Cave and the Chinese Communist Party will eat US Lunch.

 

 

interesting how all this is Chinas fault, US companies have been selling out US workers for decades and building the same plants they close in US, over there in China. With that the technology transfers, straight to China. Now crying wolf.

Chinese trade data for 2018.

total exports 2.46 trillion

total imports 2.14 trillion

320billion imbalance yet US imbalance is 500billion. What does that tell you? reminds me of when I heard about Detroit car assemblers making 120k/yr in the 80's and early 90,s and then all the crying that Japan was flooding the US market with Nissan's and Toyotas. I don't think the US car industry ever recovered, or did it? That's right, they moved to China and make them there for less than the Japanese make their cars. As a result US car owners can buy Chinese made American cars for less than their Japanese equivalents.

The moral of the story, the real reason for the trade imbalance is tooooo high manufacturing costs in the US. So the entirely loyal and nationalistic US firms are traitors who should put themselves out of business by manufacturing in the US so you can all pay way more for the car. and of course what would the shareholders say?

Above example is just a sample of why the US is in the conundrum its in,

[SKEP + 229]

2 hours ago, JR EWING said:

interesting how all this is Chinas fault, US companies have been selling out US workers for decades and building the same plants they close in US, over there in China. With that the technology transfers, straight to China. Now crying wolf.

Chinese trade data for 2018.

total exports 2.46 trillion

total imports 2.14 trillion

320billion imbalance yet US imbalance is 500billion. What does that tell you? reminds me of when I heard about Detroit car assemblers making 120k/yr in the 80's and early 90,s and then all the crying that Japan was flooding the US market with Nissan's and Toyotas. I don't think the US car industry ever recovered, or did it? That's right, they moved to China and make them there for less than the Japanese make their cars. As a result US car owners can buy Chinese made American cars for less than their Japanese equivalents.

The moral of the story, the real reason for the trade imbalance is tooooo high manufacturing costs in the US. So the entirely loyal and nationalistic US firms are traitors who should put themselves out of business by manufacturing in the US so you can all pay way more for the car. and of course what would the shareholders say?

Above example is just a sample of why the US is in the conundrum its in,

Forced transfer of technology, stealing proprietary technology, illegally subsidizing private and government companies, predatory pricing , dumping steel and aluminum on countries, allows sale of fentanyl to US killing thousands 

Not to mention slave labor wages, government surveillance, and jailing dissidents and building naval bases and airfields on islands designated international territory..

That's not mfg costs. 

Do you know that Hauwei is partially owned by the Chinese government, The Communist Party.  They subsidize Hauwei sales 20 % .  No wonder they are leading in 5G deployment.  

Edited August 7, 2019 by SKEP

[JR EWING + 123]

54 minutes ago, SKEP said:

Forced transfer of technology, stealing proprietary technology, illegally subsidizing private and government companies, predatory pricing , dumping steel and aluminum on countries, allows sale of fentanyl to US killing thousands 

Not to mention slave labor wages, government surveillance, and jailing dissidents.

That's not mfg costs. 

was any of what I said incorrect? No. Many people in US on slave labor wages. China has dragged 500million people out of abject poverty in 30 years. Fentanyl, what's that got to do with the trade war. Columbia and Brazil and Mexico have been delivering more drugs to the US for 5o years so leave that issue out of equation. Predatory pricing is another way of saying that they produce the stuff for half the price the equivalent plant in US would produce for. Dumping steel and Aluminum. That's the same as US dumping Shale oil on market causing seriously reduced prices for all oil. And to achieve that aim, the US breaks agreements with allies and foes alike. Embargoes poorer countries in order to gain market share. Manipulates its own currency by raising and lowering interest rates and then there was QE 1 and 2. Hilarious how the outside looks at the US is quite different to the inside. Then there is the imposition of sanctions on Allies in Europe because they choose cheaper Russian gas to US LNG....

all gonna come to a head and the US will be hard pushed to find a friend they haven't done over under trump

 

[SKEP + 229]

32 minutes ago, JR EWING said:

all gonna come to a head and the US will be hard pushed to find a friend they haven't done over under trump

 

US has plenty of friends .  .  .  .  there "fair weather" friends.  

Countries loved Bush and Obama.  They let them sell to the US consumers unencumbered . . . while they block sale of US products.

I do agree that Germany shouldn't be sanctioned for buying their natural gas from the lowest provider . .    but if they want to buy from Russia why don't they pay their fair share of NATO.

Edited August 7, 2019 by SKEP

[SKEP + 229]

35 minutes ago, JR EWING said:

was any of what I said incorrect? No. Many people in US on slave labor wages. China has dragged 500million people out of abject poverty in 30 years. Fentanyl, what's that got to do with the trade war. Columbia and Brazil and Mexico have been delivering more drugs to the US for 5o years so leave that issue out of equation. Predatory pricing is another way of saying that they produce the stuff for half the price the equivalent plant in US would produce for. Dumping steel and Aluminum. That's the same as US dumping Shale oil on market causing seriously reduced prices for all oil. And to achieve that aim, the US breaks agreements with allies and foes alike. Embargoes poorer countries in order to gain market share. Manipulates its own currency by raising and lowering interest rates and then there was QE 1 and 2. Hilarious how the outside looks at the US is quite different to the inside. Then there is the imposition of sanctions on Allies in Europe because they choose cheaper Russian gas to US LNG....

all gonna come to a head and the US will be hard pushed to find a friend they haven't done over under trump

 

Whatever you say commrade

[James Regan + 1,776]

15 hours ago, tldpdb1 said:

LOL....had to look up FFS..I don't post that much....I was just Making a Historical point....Most People don't know much about History, luv getting a chance to Teach them.   You're on My side?   Do you think that China's Political and Economic System has to go? I Do...Thru Tariffs or Bullets

Regarding China and I’m British, did you watch the speech by Steve Bannon that was posted in one of the China threads.

Check it out if you haven’t already it’s well worth and hour of your time, fast fwd the video until you see Steve B at the podium unless you understand Japanese 

https://youtu.be/P2wdwZxk17o

👍🏻👍🏻

[JR EWING + 123]

14 hours ago, SKEP said:

Whatever you say commrade

that says it all really, I explain to you how capitalism works and you take umbrage. Let me explain it again in easy steps.

1) US became a high cost manufacturing center in the 60,s 70,s and 80,s.

2) US (not only US by the way) companies pandering to share holder requirements for returns move their businesses to locations of lower cost.

3) US loses jobs, productivity drops and unemployment increases and taxes raised to support welfare and wealth eroded

4) 30 years on and were having this discussion, but some how I'm a communist

This is capitalism. Call me comrade all you like but I don't put my money into companies which don't have share holder value. That's makes me a capitalist. I expect a dividend for my investment. What do you expect from your investments?

You on the other hand don't seem to grasp the fact that the problem is of the US and others own making. Large US corporations are playing the US people, setting up little offices around the world in so called tax haven countries, funneling all business through these same office and returning SFA to the tax man at home. The rise of China, and make no mistake India is up and coming too is a massive threat to the US. Much more so than the USSR ever was, because unlike the USSR the Chinese have embraced Capitalism (Chinese style).

Well done China. As I pointed out yesterday, overall the chines are operating a nearly balanced trade import/export economy. I think the figures speak for themselves. US consumers are going to buy an iPhone from chine for $800 before ever buying from the US for twice that.....

These are the facts, all these so called jobs being coerced into returning to the US will disappear in a flash when Trump is gone...….

Edited August 8, 2019 by JR EWING
expanded context

[JR EWING + 123]

20 hours ago, SKEP said:

Forced transfer of technology, stealing proprietary technology, illegally subsidizing private and government companies, predatory pricing , dumping steel and aluminum on countries, allows sale of fentanyl to US killing thousands 

Not to mention slave labor wages, government surveillance, and jailing dissidents and building naval bases and airfields on islands designated international territory..

That's not mfg costs. 

Do you know that Hauwei is partially owned by the Chinese government, The Communist Party.  They subsidize Hauwei sales 20 % .  No wonder they are leading in 5G deployment.  

what an argument that you make about Hauwei. Who gives a rats arse who owns it? Statoil is 50% owned by Govt of Norway. Aramco 100% owned by Govt of SA. Most telecoms providers in Europe were government owned until 20 years ago. Government treasury's hold varying degrees of ownership (Shares) in multiple funds that give them voting rights in corporations.

I get that your annoyed because you are from the US and deeply patriotic and remember when the US was a leader of industry and now you are upset looking at Chinas rear end in every area of the game...…. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 8/2/2019 at 9:38 PM, rainman said:

China on Friday threatened retaliation if U.S. President Donald Trump’s planned tariff hikes go ahead, while the renewed acrimony between the two biggest global economies sent stock markets tumbling. China’s government accused Trump of violating his June agreement with President Xi Jinping to revive negotiations aimed at ending a costly fight over Beijing’s trade surplus and technology ambitions. Trump rattled financial markets with Thursday’s surprise announcement of 10% tariffs on $300 billion of Chinese imports, effective Sept. 1. That would extend punitive duties to everything the United States buys from China.

So what is your point? we can all read the news...

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 minutes ago, JR EWING said:

what an argument that you make about Hauwei. Who gives a rats arse who owns it? Statoil is 50% owned by Govt of Norway. Aramco 100% owned by Govt of SA. Most telecoms providers in Europe were government owned until 20 years ago. Government treasury's hold varying degrees of ownership (Shares) in multiple funds that give them voting rights in corporations.

I get that your annoyed because you are from the US and deeply patriotic and remember when the US was a leader of industry and now you are upset looking at Chinas rear end in every area of the game...…. 

Could you please explain your comment, "...and you are now upset looking at Chinas (sic) rear end in every area of the game......."?

Not saying that you are wrong, just looking for clarification.

[SKEP + 229]

4 hours ago, JR EWING said:

what an argument that you make about Hauwei. Who gives a rats arse who owns it? Statoil is 50% owned by Govt of Norway. Aramco 100% owned by Govt of SA. Most telecoms providers in Europe were government owned until 20 years ago. Government treasury's hold varying degrees of ownership (Shares) in multiple funds that give them voting rights in corporations.

I get that your annoyed because you are from the US and deeply patriotic and remember when the US was a leader of industry and now you are upset looking at Chinas rear end in every area of the game...…. 

Government of Norway is not Communist.

Statoil does not sell communication technology. 

Trump can put Hauwei out of business tomorrow.

The Communist Government and the People's Liberation Army have the most sophisticated Surveillance System that spy on their own comrades .  Trump will probably block US technology to those Chinese companies involved also.  LOL. 

You going to Hong Kong this weekend to crack some heads. Sounds like fun. 

Take care comrade.

China has already lost.  You just haven't figured it out yet. 

JR, You lose. LOL

" SMASH THE GANG OF FOUR"

" HAVE FEWER CHILDREN, RAISE MORE PIGS"

JR China is number one in killing newborn girls, #1 in infanticide. You must be very proud another #1 !

China internment of close to 1 million Uigher Muslims. China says it's vocational training. China Communist Party no respect for human rights. 

TRUMP IS INTRODUCING CHINA TO A NEW CULTURAL REVOLUTION.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by SKEP

[JR EWING + 123]

18 hours ago, SKEP said:

Government of Norway is not Communist.

Statoil does not sell communication technology. 

Trump can put Hauwei out of business tomorrow.

The Communist Government and the People's Liberation Army have the most sophisticated Surveillance System that spy on their own comrades .  Trump will probably block US technology to those Chinese companies involved also.  LOL. 

You going to Hong Kong this weekend to crack some heads. Sounds like fun. 

Take care comrade.

China has already lost.  You just haven't figured it out yet. 

JR, You lose. LOL

" SMASH THE GANG OF FOUR"

" HAVE FEWER CHILDREN, RAISE MORE PIGS"

JR China is number one in killing newborn girls, #1 in infanticide. You must be very proud another #1 !

China internment of close to 1 million Uigher Muslims. China says it's vocational training. China Communist Party no respect for human rights. 

TRUMP IS INTRODUCING CHINA TO A NEW CULTURAL REVOLUTION.

 

 

Always know when you lose a debate, that's when the other side reduce to name calling.

US # 1 WAR starter since WW2, millions dead, mostly civilians. Shall we debate that?

US spent 6 trillion since 9/11 on wars and what's it got them. 6 trillion more debt they will eventually default on.

Patriot act is what?, Its a license to spy on every man woman and child in the US (and everywhere else for that matter). Freedom of speech my hoop. You lost that long ago. Replaced by FOX/FOX and more FOX.

US lost to China already, this is the back lash, get used to the rear view.

US put Huwaei out of business, I doubt it very much. Just remember that when US stop supplying chips they will come from Finland or Germany or Malaysia, etc etc.

When the Chinese eventually cut off rare earth supplies, the US wont be even making chips.

The US kills baby girls and boys, and old people and young people, and if its not doing so directly its supplied weapons are. I guess you are proud of that. Trump has threatened to "annihilate" Nth Korea. What does that infer.

US is causing starvation in the Venezuela coz it doesn't like countries that say no, were going our own way. Who dies first?

US is supplying the weapons to the SA led coalition in Yemen, That was the poorest country in the world. Now its the poorest country with a cholera epidemic what is worst in decades. Yea, that's right. First thing the Saudis did in 2016 was bomb the water supplies, followed by the power generation. Lets expand on that, the US is supplying 40% of the weapons world wide. They particularly like supplying them to countries that like using them. There is a restock value in that for them. So all this bluster about human rights and giving a fk about baby girls is just lip service for industries in the US that are profiteering in death and destruction.