China has *Already* Lost the Trade War. Meantime, the U.S. Might Sanction China’s Largest Oil Company

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, kshithij Sharma said:

In reality, USA is being unfair to China by getting free goods and then giving back nothing.

We will never agree on this.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Seems like what happens on this forum if someone does not worship the great DT.... 

The U.S. mainstream media and Google relentlessly and ceaselessly attack Trump, while giving a free pass to Clinton, Obama, etc.

I am pro-Trump and refuse to apologize for it.

Anyone is free to attack Trump, while I remain free to poke fun at attacks on Trump.

 

[SKEP + 229]

2 hours ago, kshithij Sharma said:

China never called the shots. Even now, China only gets USA treasury bonds which are worthless, in return for exporting real goods like steel, plastics, rare earth minerals etc. This means that China is simply selling to USA on loans. So, China is not having any advantage in trade. USA has refused to allow China to buy real estate from the dollar reserves, refused to allow China to buy USA companies and has imposed many restrictions on Chinese investment in USA.

In reality, USA is being unfair to China by getting free goods and then giving back nothing.

USA was always shouting against China. But China had its own natural resources and civilisation because of which it developed on its own. Till 1990s China was oil exporter and self sufficient in resources. Even later, China developed mostly as self sufficient economy and hence USA could not do anything. Current Chinese trade surplus is because of USA coming to near collapse in 2008 economic crisis where China bailed it out by giving huge loans. That simply continues till date. USA can now reverse that due to USA economy recovering from 2008 crash and also achieveing energy self sufficiency

That is not really a good way to check things. USA economy may have 80% self consumption but that does not mean they are delinked from 20% exports. USA simply prints dollars and imports goods due to the petrodollar system. To understand how important foriegn trade is, let us take the year 2010 where USA imported 10 million barrels of oil a day (10MBPD). This amounts to 3.6 billion barrels a year. Each barrel costing $110, the total cost would be just $400 billion per year. But if this oil is removed, then entire USA economy of $15 trillion (in 2010) will come crashing to levels of $5 trillion, not just get lowered by $400 billion.

Similarly, in current times, if China stops selling items like rare earth minerals, machinery, computers, phones etc, USA economy would come crashing down as majority of USA economy relies on semiconductor and computers.

The GDP calculation is quite erroneous as it involves multiple counting of the same money while changing hands. It is not a good indicator of economy at all. What matters most is the important resources production and consumption

Got it

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Seems like what happens on this forum if someone does not worship the great DT.... 

 

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

The U.S. mainstream media and Google relentlessly and ceaselessly attack Trump, while giving a free pass to Clinton, Obama, etc.

I am pro-Trump and refuse to apologize for it.

Anyone is free to attack Trump, while I remain free to poke fun at attacks on Trump.

ZeroHedge pokes fun at Facebook for blatant censorship against Trump supporters:

Facebook Bans "Women For Trump" Ads
 

[Kit Moore + 50]

As a Brit (living in the UK all my life), I have to admit that Trump comes across to me as very brash and tends to open his mouth without thinking quite a bit.

However, I am pro-Trump.

I watched an interview with him on GMB where he was being interviewed by Piers Morgan.  I found it a fascinating watch.  Trump came across as thoughtful, calculating and a lot deeper than he seems at first.  And to be fair, he's stuck to his campaign pledges.  It is one of my BIGGEST gripes with politicians - they make out a manifesto, then as soon as they're elected it's like they use it as toilet paper. 

Now don't get me wrong, he's no Snow White but it would appear having a businessman in power is a big difference to a politician in the big chair.  I've been watching from across the pond with interest and will continue to do so.

[Otis11 + 551]

16 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Yes, it's a welcome relief from the persistent China spammer, who has choked the Geopolitics subforums 6 times so far with massive spam attacks in the past week, trying to shut down discussions here.

I would prefer reading pro-China comments rather than have pro-China spammers try to stifle the Free Speech on this forum.

Welcome, pro-China newcomers, to this forum.  Post your very best arguments and reasons why U.S. will lose and China will win.

Since any new pro-China poster may be unallowed to criticize Xi (if they are posting from China), I will try to remember to refrain from doing so as well; I live in Malaysia and understand very much the concept that criticizing certain people can land you in prison or have other unpleasant consequences.

Go ahead, knock yourself out, give it your best shot; try to convince me and other forum members and lurkers here that China will win this trade war.

 

Ah, my apologies if I implied anything less... was just trying to point out the fact and let people draw the conclusions they may.

 

That said - if these are legitimate people who really are just joining the conversation - welcome! Looking foward to differing viewpoints and a fact based discussion!

14 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Heh heh, I'm not particularly influential, just a motormouth.

I'm open to other theories.  The spammer only posts the Mandarin spam in the Geopolitics subforum here.

Over on free speech chan forums, when threads strike a nerve and are "over the target" there is normally a counter-reaction of off-topic "slides" (stupid stuff to distract away from the topic) and a barrage of spam to try to bury the topic.  I am used to seeing these spam tactics on a regular basis.

I wouldn't be so sure... While I may frequently lurk these forms, I found both of your Xi/China vs Trump/US threads on Google...

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

The U.S. mainstream media and Google relentlessly and ceaselessly attack Trump, while giving a free pass to Clinton, Obama, etc.

 

They are gone, let it go....  I rarely hear of them at all as trumps antics drown out everything on both the left and right biased media.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

To see who has already won the US-China trade war, it's only a matter of examining where USA moved in terms of power and international importance in the last 50 years, and where China has moved in the same period of time. 

The Trump crowd belief that inconvenient phenomena can be changed just by renaming them is both tragic and ridiculous. (For example, saluting to a North Korean general, thus providing the regime with effective propaganda material, and calling it "Victory and Disarmament of the North Korean regime"). 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Yoshiro Kamamura

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

To see who has already won the US-China trade war, it's only a matter of examining where USA moved in terms of power and international importance in the last 50 years, and where China has moved in the same period of time. 

The Trump crowd belief that inconvenient phenomena can be changed just by renaming them is both tragic and ridiculous. (For example, saluting to a North Korean general, thus providing the regime with effective propaganda material, and calling it "Victory and Disarmament of the North Korean regime"). 

Rodman for the peace prize!

#trumpCrowdLogic

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

23 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

The U.S. mainstream media and Google relentlessly and ceaselessly attack Trump, while giving a free pass to Clinton, Obama, etc.

I am pro-Trump and refuse to apologize for it.

Anyone is free to attack Trump, while I remain free to poke fun at attacks on Trump.

What I am trying to get to is that it seems to me that any attemtp at this forum to discuss content when it comes to Trump (i.e. policy) and challenge whether it is smart is met with

1) ridicule

2) memes

3) attacks on Obama, Clinton, democrats in general

4) socialism

5) China, ME, EU etc 

Or any combination of above. It honestly looks like deflection. 

Now, it is to be pro Trump. It is fair to like his policies. But I can not understand why we cannot discuss whether Trumps policies could be better and how? 

Let me be clear : if your answer is that Trump is the best alternative, but not perfect. Then fairplay. But say it. 

[Kit Moore + 50]

19 hours ago, Kit Moore said:

Now don't get me wrong, he's no Snow White

I think I already did 🙂

[irrepRossible1 0]

To Tom Kirkman... If the US economy grows it is because they are depressing everyone else's. I don't need to use fancy words or rhetoric, Trump is doing some good things internally but he is wreaking havoc externally. He is NOT the world leader, he is, for at most 1 and a bit terms leader of the US. We have a savior and he is in heaven. his name isn't Trump.

[BigJets + 87]

8 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

What I am trying to get to is that it seems to me that any attemtp at this forum to discuss content when it comes to Trump (i.e. policy) and challenge whether it is smart is met with

1) ridicule

2) memes

3) attacks on Obama, Clinton, democrats in general

4) socialism

5) China, ME, EU etc 

Or any combination of above. It honestly looks like deflection. 

Now, it is to be pro Trump. It is fair to like his policies. But I can not understand why we cannot discuss whether Trumps policies could be better and how? 

Let me be clear : if your answer is that Trump is the best alternative, but not perfect. Then fairplay. But say it. 

What will China do if/when Trump wins re election?

What will China do if/when the American economy continues to grow (rapidly) over the next five (5) years, and Trump is able to handpick his successor?

IMO China will have to bend the knee, to survive.  China had all the leverage with a 500B+ trade deficit in their favor; but they failed to make a proper deal that would have benefited both sides.  Now, Trump will have the massive upper hand come November 2020.  China, is already, quickly, being replaced with NEW. TRADING. PARTNERS.  You know, economics 101.   

And since this is an oil/energy forum.  Please don't forget the behemoth elephant in the room that China is absolutely dependent on other nations for their energy; USA is not.  Would be a shame if Trump (USA) continued to make it more and more difficult, disrupting any and all, China bound energy trade.  I wonder if that's already happening (Iran)?  I am certain that new "silk road" won't have any issues; crossing over several conflicting borders; should be a very secure "avenue" for trade; NOT! 

All Trump has to do now is win re election and China is dead.  Real Americans understand this very well.   

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

18 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Rodman for the peace prize!

#trumpCrowdLogic

Xi for the Pooh prize!

(Apologies to the forum, this may severely trigger another barrage of spam attacks from our persistent China spammer)

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

12 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

What I am trying to get to is that it seems to me that any attemtp at this forum to discuss content when it comes to Trump (i.e. policy) and challenge whether it is smart is met with

1) ridicule

2) memes

3) attacks on Obama, Clinton, democrats in general

4) socialism

5) China, ME, EU etc 

Or any combination of above. It honestly looks like deflection. 

Now, it is to be pro Trump. It is fair to like his policies. But I can not understand why we cannot discuss whether Trumps policies could be better and how? 

Let me be clear : if your answer is that Trump is the best alternative, but not perfect. Then fairplay. But say it. 

The Simpsons latest episode went full anti-Trump and got hammered by irate viewers.

Seems the ordinary people in the U.S. are getting really tired of the endless, shrill, Trump bashing.

 

If anyone is unwilling to see or acknowledge the enormous media bias against Trump in the U.S. then it is totally pointless for me to point it out.  Like arguing with Flat Earth true believers, a waste of time pointing out the obvious.

 

https://i.redd.it/m4ovr3nnyyh31.jpg 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

16 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

(Apologies to the forum, this may severely trigger another barrage of spam attacks from our persistent China spammer)

I'd get some coffee on the go Tom 

 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

10 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

If anyone is unwilling to see or acknowledge the enormous media bias against Trump in the U.S. then it is totally pointless for me to point it out.  Like arguing with Flat Earth true believers, a waste of time pointing out the obvious.

This forum is defitnetly not anti-Trump. Me, personally - I hardly ever wacth TV, and certainly not US MSM. 

Why do you not argue content? 

[Alex Palamas + 52]

48 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

This forum is defitnetly not anti-Trump. Me, personally - I hardly ever wacth TV, and certainly not US MSM. 

Why do you not argue content? 

Yes Rasmus, this forum is actually pro-Trump, fine. The forum exists so people of similar political persuasion ridicule their counterparts.. Your commentary is basically irrelevant as the main contributors who persistently post tabloid content  (and the various cheerleaders) cannot care less about your reality or logic.. In fact such people might even have other ideas but are paid to post and write specific stuff, I think.. I love the Chinese angle of the various posts as well, as if the Chinese ruler-maniacs are any different from Trumpf and co.. But well, small letters for the plebe.. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Alex Palamas

[Alex Palamas + 52]

11 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

If anyone is unwilling to see or acknowledge the enormous media bias against Trump in the U.S. then it is totally pointless for me to point it out.  Like arguing with Flat Earth true believers, a waste of time pointing out the obvious.

I agree that Trump receives negative bias (a semi-intelligent person might be negatively biased towards someone with Trumps manners and approach as well), thankfully I am not aware about the exact content of US mass media, but it is a bit inaccurate to imply that the bias towards Trump is enormously negative while he has an extremely strong and vocal supporter base and a powerful media system supporting him as well.. I would say the situation is 50-50.. I understand that you are cheerleading Trump, no probs, but I cannot understand why you imply that he is just a persecuted victim while quite obviously he has enormous power in his hands and support..  

Edited August 23, 2019 by Alex Palamas

[James Regan + 1,776]

1 hour ago, Alex Palamas said:

I am not aware about the exact content of US mass media, but it is a bit inaccurate to imply that the bias towards Trump is enormously negative while he has an extremely strong and vocal supporter base and a powerful media system supporting him as well.. I would say the situation is 50-50

Trump tweets so much because the US leftist media (CNN) in general only focus on fact checking him based on comments made by him while elected, while on the campaign and when he was a business man, not hard to find a fault with anyone using this methodology.

Anderson Cooper, Chris Coumo and the Lemon (multiple face slaps required). CNN and Co concentrate on Trump in order to derail him with vigour, I watch CNN ( we don't get other options on cable TV here) for some programs but US Night time Prime time CNN is like a circus.

Trumps best option is to keep tweeting.....

Lemon I would like to find some dirt on him and wipe that smug smile of his face....

[Alex Palamas + 52]

54 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Trump tweets so much because the US leftist media (CNN) in general only focus on fact checking him based on comments made by him while elected, while on the campaign and when he was a business man, not hard to find a fault with anyone using this methodology.

Anderson Cooper, Chris Coumo and the Lemon (multiple face slaps required). CNN and Co concentrate on Trump in order to derail him with vigour, I watch CNN ( we don't get other options on cable TV here) for some programs but US Night time Prime time CNN is like a circus.

Trumps best option is to keep tweeting.....

Lemon I would like to find some dirt on him and wipe that smug smile of his face....

I understand and agree, i find the CNN types and co at least as annoying and degrading as Trump, they are surely at least as uneducated (talking about true meaning of education here), arrogant and pathetic as he is but on the flip side of the populism coin and of mass propaganda for the compact majority..

I just felt like highlighting that as an external observer, Trump does not appear to be media-disadvantaged, especially on TV (am not US TV expert tho).. He has vocal and fanatical support.. This is clear to us in Europe..

I really feel it is blatantly inaccurate to describe him as enormously disadvantaged from the media perspective.. I see this 50-50.. The twitter thing is irrelevant, its a personal thing, smart of him using direct propaganda tools!

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Alex Palamas said:

I really feel it is blatantly inaccurate to describe him as enormously disadvantaged from the media perspective.

To trump everything is unfair... media coverage, hair, trade, hand size, NATO spending.

[Zhong Lu + 845]

Doesn't seem like China is backing down.  

[James Regan + 1,776]

Trump Tweets for US Companies to look elsewhere but China to trade with. Dow reacts...

[Ron Rogers + 2]

Since Trump was elected, I have wondered why so many people hate him so much, I knew of him before the election, but thats about it. I was NOT one of the many millions of people who watched the TV show "The Apprentice" on a weekly basis for years. Seems a lot of people have "pre-judged" him because he fired there favorite celebrity / rapper on TV, and then there feelings got hurt, Trump is a jerk for firing "lil gizzle". Its society today. How many of you pre judged him for this reason? This hate was here before he was elected, so it cant all be blamed on his policy.