Anti - Oil & Gas takes center stage at Democratic candidates’ forums

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

8 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

I'll try if you can tangent away from your bias, hypocrisy and racism?

Deal?

We agree to disagree. 

Well we disagree, but that is only because you are wrong.

You are trying to attack the debater instead of the topic.

Do you believe trump's tweet about the "cleanest air and water" despite real facts?

China has over 4 times the number of people and less than double the emissions.  Yet they are the filthy ones? People need to eat, drink and poop, that is unavoidable.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Enthalpic

[Guest]

I'm not attacking you. The only reason I commented on this thread initially was because someone tried to compare US and China emissions. It seems any USA fault is immediately jumped upon by Trump haters, and when we are discussing this particular topic it seems only fair to mention and highlight China's figures. 

I don't agree with the attacks on Trump while China's practices are unquestioned or even justified by 'they have more people'. If the USA population was quadrupled and your emissions were the same as China...  Would that be fine with you? Would you still be slagging off Trump? Would you agree it's a terrible problem?  Would you just say 'meh we have loads of people' and put your mask on?  Honestly, what would your reaction be?

I agree China obviously has more people but if you had read the whole thread you would see that my point was what % of China's 1.4 BILLION makes those emissions? This was also my point about 'per capita' . It means nothing to me and seems to justify that 1/5 of the planet, who live in 1 country, rarely see a horizon. 

I'm just trying to highlight the awful conditions the Chinese are suffering in. Compared to them, you do have amazing air and water. 

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Do you believe trump's tweet about the "cleanest air and water" despite real facts?

No, of course I don't, but you're choosing 1 of a list of about 10 things he said. Also, newsflash, politicians lie. We all know it's not true, we are intelligent people here, generally. To me that's the end of it. Like literally it needs no discussion, it's Trump. He plays by his own rules. You love him or hate him. I get that. 

And yes you're right. This is the topic ...  Anti - Oil & Gas takes center stage at Democratic candidates’ forums

We have gone off track a little   

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Well we disagree, but that is only because you are wrong.

I'm not   

Edited September 6, 2019 by Guest

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

20 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Well we disagree, but that is only because you are wrong.

You are trying to attack the debater instead of the topic.

Good point, to focus the debates on the issues, and not on the debater.

Argue vociferously, but the battles should be on the topics and not on who is making the comment.  

This is the second time this morning I felt the need to voice up as a moderator to remind people to vigorously debate the topics rather than attack the person who has opposing views.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

19 hours ago, Boat said:

When the best we can come up with is a loony left and a bat shyt narcissistic radical right we deserve the effects of poor governance. 

Calling Trump a "radical right" with a straight face is the most humorous bit of all..... 🤣😅🤣  The dude has been a Democrat his entire life.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Good point, to focus the debates on the issues, and not on the debater.

Tom, just to remind you, within 2 posts this thread was about Confucius, Sun Tzu and catheters.

Were they the issues?   

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

11 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

I agree China obviously has more people but if you had read the whole thread you would see that my point was what % of China's 1.4 BILLION makes those emissions? This was also my point about 'per capita' . It means nothing to me and seems to justify that 1/5 of the planet, who live in 1 country, rarely see a horizon.

I imagine most of those smog problems are centered on the big cities / industrial zones.  The rural farmer with little pollution footprint probably sees some decent air.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Tom, just to remind you, within 2 posts this thread was about Confucius, Sun Tzu and catheters.

Were they the issues?   

Heh heh, I don't have a snappy comeback for that  ...

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

I imagine most of those smog problems are centered on the big cities / industrial zones.  The rural farmer with little pollution footprint probably sees some decent air.

That was all I was trying to get across man, to the original guy who hasn't actually posted since lol!  Per capita Australia one of the worst in the world, it's a figure that means nothing to me. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

Well we disagree, but that is only because you are wrong.

You are trying to attack the debater instead of the topic.

 

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Good point, to focus the debates on the issues, and not on the debater.

Argue vociferously, but the battles should be on the topics and not on who is making the comment.  

 

An amusing example of vociferously attacking people with opposing viewpoints, and not the issues.  TDS can be amusing.  Apparently, I'm part of the true problem:

Donald Trump’s Enablers Are the True Problem

"Sycophants and enablers beware: You will be held responsible."

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

5 hours ago, wrs said:

You are really not doing very well today, not only do you not understand the difference between per capita and total but you don't have the facts on the hurricanegate nonsense.  Here is the appropriate chart Trump was referencing in his first claim about Alabama.

Just another TDS victim.

 

Or if you prefer a more updated version post tweet then try this one.  No matter, both show Alabama getting tropical storm force winds.

 

Any TDS victims feel like hammering the Alabama National Guard too, for being prepared?

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Humor intermission:

Tucker: CNN's climate change town hall was an act of wanton cruelty

and

Democrats appearing at CNN's marathon 7-hour global warming forum have a plan to solve a changing climate: Ban everything!

Over the course of the television extravaganza, Democrats' leading 2020 presidential candidates floated a variety of proposals to cut Americans' energy use and, ostensibly, to stop the climate from changing.

Among them: Bans on plastic straws, red meat, incandescent lightbulbs, gasoline-powered cars, nuclear energy, off-shore drilling, fracking, natural gas exports, coal plants, and even "carbon" itself. ...

 

[Hotone + 412]

17 hours ago, wrs said:

 

Or if you prefer a more updated version post tweet then try this one.  No matter, both show Alabama getting tropical storm force winds.

 

If your look more carefully at the maps, they show only a low probability (5%) of hitting.  

I suppose in these days of Post truth America, Fox and Trump, facts are whatever you want it to be.

[wrs + 893]

1 minute ago, Hotone said:

If your look more carefully at the maps, they show only a low probability (5%) of hitting.  

I suppose in these days of Post truth America, Fox and Trump, facts are whatever you want it to be.

The problem is that the media cannot let anything go with Trump and that is their problem, they are the ones lying and distorting so that they have a headline that is anti-trump.  What Trump claimed was not a big deal at all.  Hurricanes are very unpredictable and the tracks change all the time.  The earliest models did have two tracks running through Florida and into the Gulf.  I was looking at those prior to the weekend because they would have affected oil production in the GOM and they had Alabama in the crosshairs.  Trump was not wrong, the media was and they just keep pushing a broken narrative as with the Russian Collusion nonsense.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

9 minutes ago, Hotone said:

If your look more carefully at the maps, they show only a low probability (5%) of hitting.  

I suppose in these days of Post truth America, Fox and Trump, facts are whatever you want it to be.

You mean like CNN identifying Alabama as Mississippi?

[Hotone + 412]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

You mean like CNN identifying Alabama as Mississippi?

I agree that CNN is fake news, on some occasions I realised that they deliberately created the wrong impressions.  

Fox is a different level all together.  The first time I watched Fox News (we don't get that channel in Malaysia, I may have been in Mexico at the time), I thought I was on a different planet - where was I all this time...

Edited September 6, 2019 by Hotone
Grammar

[fozzir + 68]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 7:11 AM, Hotone said:

Since Trump is not a truthful person, I did a factcheck on his tweets and this is what I found:

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/24/18512804/climate-change-united-states-china-emissions

”What’s abundantly clear is that the United States of America is the all-time biggest, baddest greenhouse gas emitter on the planet”

China now emits more than the US, and India’s emissions are rapidly rising. But these countries have a much smaller share of cumulative global emissions. Their populations are also much bigger than the US.

 

In 2015, the United States emitted 15.53 metric tons of carbon dioxide per capita. China emitted 6.59 metric tons. India emitted just 1.58 metric tons. As these countries get richer, their per capita emissions are poised to rise further. This is why technology transfer from wealthier countries to less developed economies is shaping up to be a critical component of fighting climate change.

But ultimately the largest share of the burden in cleaning up this mess should fall to those who played the largest role in creating it. This animation leaves no doubt as to the culprits.

Lol, Trump says US is # 1 one in carbon reduction and you go on a diatribe talking about how the US is the biggest baddass greenhouse emitter?

Let me help you with English:

 

    reduction

        [rəˈdəkSH(ə)n]

 

NOUN

1. the action or fact of making a specified thing smaller or less in amount, degree, or size.

    

    

   big

   [lärj]

   ADJECTIVE

   of considerable size, extent, or intensity.

    

   1. https://www.dailywire.com/news/34848/study-us-leads-world-reducing-co2-emissions-while-james-barrett

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/34848/study-us-leads-world-reducing-co2-emissions-while-james-barrett

 The part you missed was Trump was talking about "reduction," instead you went on and on and on, painfully talking about "biggest", I had to go back a reread his tweet after reading your post because I thought I was going crazy,  instead I realized how much time you wasted here.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 9/5/2019 at 4:49 PM, Enthalpic said:

Well we disagree, but that is only because you are wrong.

You are trying to attack the debater instead of the topic.

Do you believe trump's tweet about the "cleanest air and water" despite real facts?

China has over 4 times the number of people and less than double the emissions.  Yet they are the filthy ones? People need to eat, drink and poop, that is unavoidable.

I've had my same issues with you Enthalpic and got reprimanded by the moderators for something considerably less than what's been thrown around here lately. In fact I believe I'm owed an apology, but I'm not holding my breath. 

As for the bolded part of your quote? You're talking about CO2 as if it's a pollutant. Only morons and members of the EPA under the Obama administration (but I repeat myself) believe that.

CO2 is NOT A POLLUTANT, since without it all life on earth dies. Possibly a few deep sea vent sucking creatures survive, but even their ecosystem will be destroyed. Necessary for all life on earth means not a pollutant. But you and I have had this discussion before and you were as blind to facts then as you are now, and scientifically illiterate to boot. 

PS Chinese also wear masks when they have communicable diseases, or when they're afraid of catching one. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Ward Smith

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

I've had my same issues with you Enthalpic and got reprimanded by the moderators for something considerably less than what's been thrown around here lately. In fact I believe I'm owed an apology, but I'm not holding my breath. 

As for the bolded part of your quote? You're talking about CO2 as if it's a pollutant. Only morons and members of the EPA under the Obama administration (but I repeat myself) believe that.

CO2 is NOT A POLLUTANT, since without it all life on earth dies. Possibly a few deep sea vent sucking creatures survive, but even their ecosystem will be destroyed. Necessary for all life on earth means not a pollutant. But you and I have had this discussion before and you were as blind to facts then as you are now, and scientifically illiterate to boot. 

PS Chinese also wear masks when they have communicable diseases, or when they're afraid of catching one. 

Sorry.

Calling someone wrong is not an insult, calling them wrong because they are "illiterate" is.

CO2 doesn't make smog like the pictures.

I am much more anti-pollution (PM2.5, heavy metals, persistent organics etc.) than I am anti-carbon (but I do believe in anthropogenic climate change). The two are highly related but independent topics, and that often gets missed around here.

Feel free not to like me. It's OK I can handle it.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Enthalpic

[Guest]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:19 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

mainly because he can't stay off Twitter and always has to say something,

I would too if I was lied about all day. I think his use of Twitter is rather clever. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Guest

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 9/5/2019 at 10:46 PM, Hotone said:

Those 2015 figures are the latest that I can find anywhere on the internet.

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html

I would be happy if you can point out more recent figures.

The most polluted cities used to be in China, but they have been cleaning up. Now other developing countries have taken the lead in pollution:

I'm not going to argue with statistics. As Lincoln said, "There are lies. Even worse are damn lies. Even worse are statistics."

Having lived in Kathmandu (Nepal) and Bangkok (Thailand) the last three years my eyes observed lots of people in masks. In addition, when they had a killer business class special, I flew through Shanghai and lots of people wore masks.

The only times I have seen people wear masks in the US is in hospitals and when helping people still in the infectious stage of TB.

Groucho Marx asked, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" If I have to choose between your statistics and my eyes, I choose my eyes. That is just the kind of crazy American I am.