Why Americans should be allowed guns - just not 'lunatics'

[Guest]

(From Zero Hedge)       OK, now you can say it's about government...  LOL  (with regard to Trump 2020 thread). You just needed an English guy to bring it up. Bring on the abuse...   

 

The authoritarian dystopian future has been here for a while now, but this is simply more evidence of humanity’s disregard for freedom and independence. The United States government has demanded that Apple and Google (who are both politically biased towards the left) hand over any information they have on gun owners in the USSA.

The U.S. Government is asking Apple and Google to hand over information on gun owners who have a scope on their rifles and use an app called Obsidian 4. The Obsidian 4 app “allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device,” according to the report. Forbes reported that the Department of Justice filed “an application for a court order” on September 5, 2019, the goal of which is to have information released on Obsidian 4 users. This would essentially impact about, 10,000 gun owners across the USSA. Never before has a case been disclosed in which American investigators demanded personal data of users of a single app from Apple and Google. And never has an order been made public where the feds have asked the Silicon Valley giants for info on so many thousands of people in one go. –Forbes

If you still are delusional and somehow believe you’re living in the “land of the free,” think again.  It’s time to open your eyes and see what the U.S. government has become: one of the largest slave plantations on earth.  Things are getting ugly very quickly now, folks.

Forbes indicated that the information is being sought is to supposedly aid Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in tracking illegal exports of a night vision scope made by American Technologies Network Corp. But Edin Omanovic, who is with Privacy International’s State Surveillance program, says the information grab means “innocent people’s personal data” will be released to the government. Omanovic warned that the type of orders sought by the DOJ “need to be based on suspicion and be particularized,” but the attempt to gather information from Apple and Google is not. This is a major invasion of privacy and a massive human rights violation.  The U.S. government no longer has limits to the extent they will go to in order to keep people under its control. The country is not far from complete totalitarianism at this point.

As SHTFPlan previously detailed, the Trump administration was “considering a proposal that would use Google, Amazon, and Apple to collect data on users who exhibit characteristics of mental illness that could lead to violent behavior.” Such information would then reportedly be used in decisions on who should and should not be allowed to buy/possess firearms. According to Breitbart, The Daily Caller cited a Washington Post report that showed the data collection would fall under the auspices of “a new agency called the Health Advanced Research Projects Agency or HARPA.”

Make no mistake: the government is coming for your guns.  It’s obvious now.

 

      NOW the 2nd amendment makes sense to me haha. But keep guns away from nutters. Deal?

Edited September 12, 2019 by Guest

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

8 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

(From Zero Hedge)       OK, now you can say it's about government...  LOL. You just needed an English guy to bring it up. Bring on the abuse...   

 

The authoritarian dystopian future has been here for a while now, but this is simply more evidence of humanity’s disregard for freedom and independence. The United States government has demanded that Apple and Google (who are both politically biased towards the left) hand over any information they have on gun owners in the USSA.

The U.S. Government is asking Apple and Google to hand over information on gun owners who have a scope on their rifles and use an app called Obsidian 4. The Obsidian 4 app “allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device,” according to the report. Forbes reported that the Department of Justice filed “an application for a court order” on September 5, 2019, the goal of which is to have information released on Obsidian 4 users. This would essentially impact about, 10,000 gun owners across the USSA. Never before has a case been disclosed in which American investigators demanded personal data of users of a single app from Apple and Google. And never has an order been made public where the feds have asked the Silicon Valley giants for info on so many thousands of people in one go. –Forbes

If you still are delusional and somehow believe you’re living in the “land of the free,” think again.  It’s time to open your eyes and see what the U.S. government has become: one of the largest slave plantations on earth.  Things are getting ugly very quickly now, folks.

Forbes indicated that the information is being sought is to supposedly aid Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in tracking illegal exports of a night vision scope made by American Technologies Network Corp. But Edin Omanovic, who is with Privacy International’s State Surveillance program, says the information grab means “innocent people’s personal data” will be released to the government. Omanovic warned that the type of orders sought by the DOJ “need to be based on suspicion and be particularized,” but the attempt to gather information from Apple and Google is not. This is a major invasion of privacy and a massive human rights violation.  The U.S. government no longer has limits to the extent they will go to in order to keep people under its control. The country is not far from complete totalitarianism at this point.

As SHTFPlan previously detailed, the Trump administration was “considering a proposal that would use Google, Amazon, and Apple to collect data on users who exhibit characteristics of mental illness that could lead to violent behavior.” Such information would then reportedly be used in decisions on who should and should not be allowed to buy/possess firearms. According to Breitbart, The Daily Caller cited a Washington Post report that showed the data collection would fall under the auspices of “a new agency called the Health Advanced Research Projects Agency or HARPA.”

Make no mistake: the government is coming for your guns.  It’s obvious now.

 

      NOW the 2nd amendment makes sense to me haha. But keep guns away from nutters. 

Correct! Absolutely nobody in government should be allowed to own a firearm.

Furthermore, their security details should be armed with pepper spray and tasers (re another thread).

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I must really be getting old...I have never required an app to dial in a scope/rifle combination! Going to the range is much more fun! 

[Guest]

App for everything.

Kids today huh...   shit now I feel old. Thanks, 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I must really be getting old...I have never required an app to dial in a scope/rifle combination! Going to the range is much more fun! 

Well top snipers use computers I'm sure.

As usual Canadians do it best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

19 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

App for everything.

Kids today huh...   shit now I feel old. Thanks, 

Sorry about that, just wanted to share the😂 pain....

Is there an app for that?

[Guest]

I'm in App Store already. Hold on. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

21 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Well top snipers use computers I'm sure.

As usual Canadians do it best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

Yes, they use computers to dial in a weapon. But the program is only as good as the input data. The weight and velocity of a match grade bullet is easily determined. Guessing wind speed and direction out to say 1000 yards is impossible to get accurate as you will have multiple winds along the bullet path (read Chris Kyle’s comments on windage in his book ‘American Sniper’). Shooting accurately over water (a constantly changing surface), from a moving platform, or at a moving target is more of an art form. There are simply too many constantly changing variables to update in a computer model AND make the shot.

Understanding ballistics, practice, breath control, and muscle memory is preferred over trusting a computer.

What do yo do when your batteries die.

I BELIEVE that you Canucks hold the ‘longest confirmed kill’ title, but repeatability is the key!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, DayTrader said:

(From Zero Hedge)       OK, now you can say it's about government...  LOL  (with regard to Trump 2020 thread). You just needed an English guy to bring it up. Bring on the abuse...   

 

The authoritarian dystopian future has been here for a while now, but this is simply more evidence of humanity’s disregard for freedom and independence. The United States government has demanded that Apple and Google (who are both politically biased towards the left) hand over any information they have on gun owners in the USSA.

The U.S. Government is asking Apple and Google to hand over information on gun owners who have a scope on their rifles and use an app called Obsidian 4. The Obsidian 4 app “allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device,” according to the report. Forbes reported that the Department of Justice filed “an application for a court order” on September 5, 2019, the goal of which is to have information released on Obsidian 4 users. This would essentially impact about, 10,000 gun owners across the USSA. Never before has a case been disclosed in which American investigators demanded personal data of users of a single app from Apple and Google. And never has an order been made public where the feds have asked the Silicon Valley giants for info on so many thousands of people in one go. –Forbes

If you still are delusional and somehow believe you’re living in the “land of the free,” think again.  It’s time to open your eyes and see what the U.S. government has become: one of the largest slave plantations on earth.  Things are getting ugly very quickly now, folks.

Forbes indicated that the information is being sought is to supposedly aid Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in tracking illegal exports of a night vision scope made by American Technologies Network Corp. But Edin Omanovic, who is with Privacy International’s State Surveillance program, says the information grab means “innocent people’s personal data” will be released to the government. Omanovic warned that the type of orders sought by the DOJ “need to be based on suspicion and be particularized,” but the attempt to gather information from Apple and Google is not. This is a major invasion of privacy and a massive human rights violation.  The U.S. government no longer has limits to the extent they will go to in order to keep people under its control. The country is not far from complete totalitarianism at this point.

As SHTFPlan previously detailed, the Trump administration was “considering a proposal that would use Google, Amazon, and Apple to collect data on users who exhibit characteristics of mental illness that could lead to violent behavior.” Such information would then reportedly be used in decisions on who should and should not be allowed to buy/possess firearms. According to Breitbart, The Daily Caller cited a Washington Post report that showed the data collection would fall under the auspices of “a new agency called the Health Advanced Research Projects Agency or HARPA.”

Make no mistake: the government is coming for your guns.  It’s obvious now.

 

      NOW the 2nd amendment makes sense to me haha. But keep guns away from nutters. Deal?

So now you understand why patriots can no longer trust our own government. All you have to do is look at the extreme measures that statists have in mind to control every single person in the world. Of course they will have well paid and trained defenders with the very finest of firearms, vehicles, armor, electronics, explosives etc 

Privacy is just about dead throughout the world but here is my topic on Privacy, Big Brother, and Spying https://docs.google.com/document/d/180xMs2bPaqtbPGo0HHRzhO1U6lsED1XEvO9R_tX3BqE/edit

Edited September 12, 2019 by ronwagn
added reference

[Guest]

Why do you have FB then?  That's bit odd to me. 

I'm on page 21 out of 406. Laptop suffering lol. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Guest

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

6 hours ago, DayTrader said:

I'm on page 21 out of 406. Laptop suffering lol.

Don't say I didn't warn you!   That download is a total machine destroyer.  Surprised your hard drive isn't smoking......

Edited September 12, 2019 by Jan van Eck

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Correct! Absolutely nobody in government should be allowed to own a firearm.

Actually, that is probably a very good idea.  

And especially, the US Capitol Police should never be allowed to be near a gun.  Those guys are totally nuts.  They will just shoot you dead, in the recognition that no Federal Prosecutor is ever going to do anything about it.  Nasty, very nasty people, those guys. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

One element that is perhaps not fully appreciated by persons outside the USA is that the vast majority of gun violence is committed in just 2% of US Counties.  And, no surprise, those 2% are urban counties, with cities where gun ownership and carry are either severely restricted or outlawed.  

For the other 98% of America, the place is remarkably peaceful, indeed serene, even with the population more heavily armed than in say Beirut. Again, something to ponder. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

5 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

One element that is perhaps not fully appreciated by persons outside the USA is that the vast majority of gun violence is committed in just 2% of US Counties.  And, no surprise, those 2% are urban counties, with cities where gun ownership and carry are either severely restricted or outlawed.  

For the other 98% of America, the place is remarkably peaceful, indeed serene, even with the population more heavily armed than in say Beirut. Again, something to ponder. 

Damn! That was unexpected!

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Douglas Buckland said:

Damn! That was unexpected!

It is what it is, Douglas.  Hey, I don't make the world, I just sit up here in rural Vermont and look at it.  Try to be objective.  Cheers. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

13 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

It is what it is, Douglas.  Hey, I don't make the world, I just sit up here in rural Vermont and look at it.  Try to be objective.  Cheers. 

I hear you Jan. This is just a topic which is ‘close to my heart’ and I get a bit frustrated when I see erroneous info thrown out.

At the end of the day, your perspective on the issue depends alot on how you were raised and where you were raised. It would be foolish to expect someone who grew up in a city or even suburbia to have the same frame of reference as someone with a rural upbringing.

The issue needs addressed rationally, and I stayed my thoughts on the matter and will leave it at that.

I appreciated your input regardless!

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It would be foolish to expect someone who grew up in a city or even suburbia to have the same frame of reference as someone with a rural upbringing.

Here in the rural country, the mentality is different.  If you call for a policeman, then when he arrives, the first event is the policeman comes up to you and introduces himself by name, and offers his handshake.  Now, additional to being polite, it has the psychological advantage of putting this interaction at ease.  You never see this in a city, the policeman is so pumped-up that everyone he meets is going to take his sidearm away and shoot him - so they keep the hands free, and are eyeing you constantly.  When a rural policeman stops you in your car for some offense, i.e. you are driving over the speed limit, they never bother to ask if you have a gun in the car, that is just assumed to be the case.  It is a zero big deal, it is unthinkable that a rural person is going to go shoot a policeman in some traffic stop.  In say New Jersey, every policeman comes up to the car with either the sidearm out, or with his hand on the sidearm ready to pull it out.  And if the motorist reaches under the seat or to the glovebox, well, he is already dead.  There was a case in New York City of an immigrant from Africa, I think from Guinea, who was confronted by the street crimes unit in Brooklyn, NY, and reached into his jacket pocket for his wallet, and was instantly ventilated with 19 of 41 rounds fired. One policeman emptied an entire magazine at and into Mr. Diallo, popped that magazine out and jammed in another one on the fly, then emptied that one at and into his torso.   Mr. Amadou Diallo, who was utterly innocent of anything, did not survive with those 19 rounds in him.  

The national language of Guinea is French  (from colonial rule), yet Amadou had spent time as a boy in both Singapore and Thailand, so had exposure to English. He had been in NYC for three years before being shot dead by police.  His crime?  He was standing on his front steps at night, having come back home from eating out.  The cops thought he might have been a serial rapist from over a year previously.  The cops jumped out of a (unmarked) car, yelled at him, and in the confusion somebody took his wallet for a gun, yelled "gun!", and started shooting.  Interestingly, at least one policeman did not fire one single shot.  The volleys were from the guns of two policemen, the most (two magazines) from one man who had also previously shot a black man dead.  The City paid $3,000,000 to the parents for the murder.  

That does not happen in the rural areas of the USA.  The men that are hired as policemen have an intimate familiarity with guns and can intuitively tell if a suspect is (1) actually holding a gun, and (2) has hostile intent.  Since nobody has hostile intent, nobody starts shooting. It just does not happen.  Total gun deaths (murder) in Vermont in a typical year runs between zero and four.  And those are typically family-type disputes.  For the average resident, the possibility of being shot at is effectively zero.  

In the (Democratically-controlled) urban areas, it is unfortunately quite a bit higher.  You see the problems. 

People who do not live in the USA do not appreciate the nuances, and they end up with an entirely wrong impression of the country.  America is a remarkably peaceful society.  Emphatically so in the rural areas. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

All true. My Grandfather was a deputy sheriff in Summers County West Virginia, my father met my mother while she was working for the FBI and my father was working for another of those three letter agencies. Needless to say, my brothers and I were brought up with a healthy respect for law enforcement.

I am not trying to excuse or defend the cops in New York which you mentioned, but being a cop in any major city anymore would definitely make you jumpy in the extreme. I wonder how many city cops have been shot performing such mundane tasks as traffic stops or responding to domestic violence calls?

My Grandfather knew I carried a Colt .357 Python with me in the car, and I used to do alot of interstate traveling, he always told me that if stopped, roll down the window and put both hands on the sill where the cop could see them....even this might get you shot anymore in an urban setting!

Growing up in Colorado this was never an issue...as you said.

In my travels outside of the States, I find that many people base their perception of America on Hollywood or what they see on the news. 

[butasha + 123]

I live in rural south Texas. My nearest neighbor is over a half mile away and is a relative. We have guns in our house, trucks, Side by side and my wife’s SUV. All my neighbors and relatives do as well.

This isn’t because we are gun nuts it is just a way of life. While we know most of the local law enforcement officers, Judges, Game Wardens etc personally we do not depend on them for rapid defense type response. They are just to many miles, cattle guards and gates between them and our house.

In my opinion what makes us safe is that most of the criminal element and illegals passing through understand that most rural people are not easy targets. If you think my sweet wife won’t shoot to defend herself or loved one then then you are sadly mistaken. 

To us guns are tools to defend against the bad side of life. Be it rattlesnakes, coyotes, feral dogs or the worst of society. Some of these tools are better than others and prices accordingly.

I understand some hunt and others like to engage in sport shooting. I am not into either of these but understand the desire and the tools that they require for these hobbies.

It would be difficult to live in deep rural south Texas without guns for domestic protection. Not initially but once the criminals realized that our means of defense has been taken away. The whole concept of pepper spray or taser to defend my rural family is absurd.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

being a cop in any major city anymore would definitely make you jumpy in the extreme

Sure would.  And that is why bullet-proof vests are now universal required equipment.  Even in rural Connecticut, when I lived there, my neighbor was a police Sergeant and was shot making an arrest in a smaller town of 26,000, by a drug dealer.  That town was on the I-95, a full-bore drug corridor.  It happens in the East along drug corridors, and in drug-infested cities.  He survived, although it was a nasty wound.  Missed the vest  (at least did not hit anything critical).  I had an in-law relative who was a State Policeman there, he went his entire career without once pulling his service sidearm in 20 years.  But again, that is more in the countryside.  As long as you are not in the path of the drug dealers and the druggies, basically nothing much happens.  Being a fireman is probably more dangerous than being a policeman. 

 

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I wonder how many city cops have been shot performing such mundane tasks as traffic stops or responding to domestic violence calls?

Unfortunately, lots.  It happens with unsettling frequency to the troopers posted to the Interstate, and the New Jersey Turnpike.  I recall one fellow who pulled in to a service plaza and saw a fellow underneath his car, trying to fix his loose muffler.  The policeman ambled over to ask if he could help.  The man under the car shot him.  I think the policeman died.  so much for offering to help. The motorist was hauling a full load of cocaine, several million dollars worth. 

 

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

roll down the window and put both hands on the sill where the cop could see them....even this might get you shot anymore in an urban setting!

If you are black and in Chicago, you are already dead.  I tell all my clients, do not live in places like Chicago.  Far too crazy. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

48 minutes ago, butasha said:

we do not depend on them for rapid defense type response.

Not possible in a rural setting.  Hopeless.  You are on your own  (but in my case, I have my [armed] neighbors). 

50 minutes ago, butasha said:

In my opinion what makes us safe is that most of the criminal element and illegals passing through understand that most rural people are not easy targets.

Yup.  Exactly right.  Rural Texas is and always has been heavily armed.  As long as the good old boys don't get drunk, that works out just fine. 

 

52 minutes ago, butasha said:

The whole concept of pepper spray or taser to defend my rural family is absurd.

Cannot be done.  Either you are armed or your family is dead, or worse.  It is what it is.  I would never live down there without having an open-carry. An isolated ranch is a plum target for seasoned criminal gangs. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

5 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Actually, that is probably a very good idea.  

And especially, the US Capitol Police should never be allowed to be near a gun.  Those guys are totally nuts.  They will just shoot you dead, in the recognition that no Federal Prosecutor is ever going to do anything about it.  Nasty, very nasty people, those guys. 

Or do nothing at all, see Warren vs District of Columbia

[ronwagn + 6,290]

15 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Why do you have FB then?  That's bit odd to me. 

I'm on page 21 out of 406. Laptop suffering lol. 

I give up much of my privacy as a necessary act to help others see the information I have. I have 5,000 patriots on Facebook. That is their allowed limit. I have about 14,000 overall, but due to shadow banning it is still far less than it should be. Twitter does not allow me to follow new members on one site. The new secure iteration of Gab is not currently allowing me to follow anyone else. I get a 422 message and have not been able to have them fix it yet. 

If anyone comes to my house they will be on camera, so it works both ways. If you can't beat them, you are forced to join them. I attack the evil I see, and the mainstream media attacks all who they disagree with. They have a voice about 90% larger than conservatism in America. Probably more in Europe. That educational system, government unions, corporations, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, wealthy trusts, etc. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by ronwagn
punctuation