USAvChina.com

[Guest]

Oops, sorry. 

Google brought me here, I must have misclicked.

I seem to be on an oil forum.

Carry on. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Guest

[Marcin + 519]

In some areas you already have the taste of future China.

China reminds me this character from Star Trek : "We are the Borg. Resistance is futile"

Look at steel market.

China produced 928.3m tons of steel last year, the rest of the world 879.7 m (yes the rest of the world much less than China).

2nd India 106.5 3rd 104.3 and 4th USA 86.6 m tons

2018 was a good year for investment in China so only 54.4 m tons of net steel exports flooded the world.

Fortunately many countries in the world are wise enough to impose steel tariffs.

You cannot compete with the Borg at the free market, not because of the subsidies,

China is simply too large, for anybody, even the United States.

And year after year we have similar situation in the next industries, and Chinese have one of the best education systems on Earth.

It is the World vs China.com

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 hours ago, Marcin said:

China produced 928.3m tons of steel last year, the rest of the world 879.7 m (yes the rest of the world much less than China).

What you are overlooking (as usual) is that a big chunk of that steel production is low-quality steel, mostly re-bar.   Re-bar is used as a reinforcement for poured concrete, in building construction.  It is that big thick wire-looking product that you see latticed together, then the liquid concrete is poured over and around it.  So, if you are doing lots of buildings (which China does) and leave those buildings empty (which China does) and use it in lots of roadways (which China does) and leave the roadways empty (which China does), then is anybody really further advanced?   And the answer is a resounding No. 

Re-bar comes from scrap tonnage, and for the China trade is mostly the old steel salvaged from broken-up ships done on the beaches of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.  The Chinese are not producing "new steel" from ore; they are using up old steel, marginally contaminated, to produce low-value and low-quality garbage steel.  Meanwhile the West is producing super-high-quality steel, including nickel alloys and chrome alloys that become stainless and tool steels. 

So, bottom line:  who cares if China produces garbage steel?  

And this is your problem, Marcin:  you cannot read beyond the numbers about China to understand the realities of China.  You think China is some overwhelming super-power, but all it really is, is a recycler of the West's garbage.  They do not have what it takes to build the quality products the West builds, at least not in any volume. And so your analysis dies.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Jan van Eck
spelling

[Marcin + 519]

2 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

What you are overlooking (as usual) is that a big chunk of that steel production is low-quality steel, mostly re-bar.   Re-bar is used as a reinforcement for poured concrete, in building construction.  It is that big thick wire-looking product that you see latticed together, then the liquid concrete is poured over and around it.  So, if you are doing lots of buildings (which China does) and leave those buildings empty (which China does) and use it in lots of roadways (which China does) and leave the roadways empty (which China does), then is anybody really further advanced?   And the answer is a resounding No. 

Re-bar comes from scrap tonnage, and for the China trade is mostly the old steel salvaged from broken-up ships done on the beaches of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.  The Chinese are not producing "new steel" from ore; they are using up old steel, marginally contaminated, to produce low-value and low-quality garbage steel.  Meanwhile the West is producing super-high-quality steel, including nickel alloys and chrome alloys that become stainless and tool steels. 

So, bottom line:  who cares if China produces garbage steel?  

Marcin: In 2018 China mined 115m t of Iron Ore and imported 1075.4m t of Iron Ore (mostly from Australia and Brazil).

In 2018 China imported 1.3 m t of Iron Scrap.

Chinese steel industry in 2019 is top notch, like it or not. I know they still import some highest grades & alloy steel but it is less than 2% of usage.

What you have written about Chinese steel industry was probably right about 1990-1995.

And this is your problem, Marcin:  you cannot read beyond the numbers about China to understand the realities of China.  You think China is some overwhelming super-power, but all it really is, is a recycler of the West's garbage.  They do not have what it takes to build the quality products the West builds, at least not in any volume. And so your analysis dies.

China was actually a big recycler of West garbage (plastics etc.) until it banned imports in 2017-2018.

Today I watched video with Steve Bannon speech in Hokkaido, it was linked by one of users here at oilprice.

The guy was right about general idea of Chinese thereat, but the China he described is

from the years 2005-2009. China is modernizing so fast that it is common to underestimate this country.

[Guest]

OK. So just to clarify, you ignored the start of this thread and literally saw the word 'China', then reeled off some more crap, this time about Chinese steel?

My initial comment at the start was a sarcastic reference to every thread ending up with this agenda. You clearly did not notice this, as it interrupts the agenda, like you ignored Doug's post listed with FACTS about China. Instead you rambled on so you could end with your snappy punchline of ...

7 hours ago, Marcin said:

It is the World vs China.com

7 hours ago, Marcin said:

China reminds me this character from Star Trek : "We are the Borg. Resistance is futile"

 

I would invite you to analyse the above comments. Not only did you start the ramblings by quoting Star Trek, which tells me a lot about you in itself, but you seem to think that this is a positive thing. I feel like this could be some sort of slogan in China's newspapers.

The 'World v China' comment, seemingly said with glee, also tells me all I need to know. 

 

6 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

And yes, you are quite right, most of what has been posted here is pure bullshit.  Oh, well. 

This should definitely be some kinda heading at the top of all threads, just to warn others. Would save time. 

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Oil is going to go nuts. I have trading to do and no time for your nonsense.

Here is a random meme. Completely irrelevant so should fit in perfectly. 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Guest

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 hours ago, DayTrader said:

.

 

 

 

Note to all followers of Mr. Trump:  he does not have the authority to order the Grating of Edam Cheese!   Sacrilege!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

9 hours ago, Marcin said:

China reminds me this character from Star Trek : "We are the Borg. Resistance is futile"

...

You cannot compete with the Borg at the free market, not because of the subsidies,

 

3 hours ago, DayTrader said:

I would invite you to analyse the above comments. Not only did you start the ramblings by quoting Star Trek, which tells me a lot about you in itself, but you seem to think that this is a positive thing. I feel like this could be some sort of slogan in China's newspapers.

The 'World v China' comment, seemingly said with glee, also tells me all I need to know. 

 

 

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

Note to all followers of Mr. Trump:  he does not have the authority to order the Grating of Edam Cheese!   Sacrilege!

Pretty sure Trump is paying attention to other stuff than grating Edam Cheese.

[4cryingoutloud + 21]

13 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

What you are overlooking (as usual) is that a big chunk of that steel production is low-quality steel, mostly re-bar.   Re-bar is used as a reinforcement for poured concrete, in building construction.  It is that big thick wire-looking product that you see latticed together, then the liquid concrete is poured over and around it.  So, if you are doing lots of buildings (which China does) and leave those buildings empty (which China does) and use it in lots of roadways (which China does) and leave the roadways empty (which China does), then is anybody really further advanced?   And the answer is a resounding No. 

Re-bar comes from scrap tonnage, and for the China trade is mostly the old steel salvaged from broken-up ships done on the beaches of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.  The Chinese are not producing "new steel" from ore; they are using up old steel, marginally contaminated, to produce low-value and low-quality garbage steel.  Meanwhile the West is producing super-high-quality steel, including nickel alloys and chrome alloys that become stainless and tool steels. 

So, bottom line:  who cares if China produces garbage steel?  

And this is your problem, Marcin:  you cannot read beyond the numbers about China to understand the realities of China.  You think China is some overwhelming super-power, but all it really is, is a recycler of the West's garbage.  They do not have what it takes to build the quality products the West builds, at least not in any volume. And so your analysis dies.

Blanket allegations are difficult to swallow without burping. True, China does recycle steel, which most people would consider to be a better solution than increased destruction from mining. True, China does produce a very large quantity of rebar. But what is "a large chunk"? 10%, 50%?  With no specifics, your post is nothing but opinion: and with no fact, nothing but hearsay. Last I checked, hearsay is not valid in any western court of law, so why should readers accept hearsay?  But, given this site has degraded to hearsay, please allow me to wade into the topic: after all, should not my hearsay be as valid as yours or anybody else's?  I am not an expert in steel, but I have 2 close friends who are CEOs of mills. They tell me China does indeed produce steels equal to the highest grade of 'western' steels, and in high quantities equal to 'western' production. Given this forum is supposed to be for oil in general, perhaps we may drop the topic of steel. As for empty roads...... 

[Guest]

Looks great. You're posting that picture like it's something to be proud of? 

Woohoo we take 6 hours to travel a few miles.

[Zhong Lu + 845]

Many people here have outdated views of China.  This is a good time to visit it.  See for yourself what the country is like.  

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

4 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Pretty sure Trump is paying attention to other stuff than grating Edam Cheese.

If anyone even touches a hunk of Edom with a grater I expect Jan will go ‘postal’ and we’ll see him on the evening news...

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

11 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

If anyone even touches a hunk of Edom with a grater I expect Jan will go ‘postal’ and we’ll see him on the evening news...

BAN  ASSAULT  GRATERS !

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

10 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

BAN  ASSAULT  GRATERS !

I would like to point out that it is illegal for any civilian to own, or operate, an assault grater capable of grating more than one hunk of cheese simultaneously. What you are referring to is an ‘assault style’ grater. Although in appearance they are identical, operationally an ‘assault style’ grater can only grate one hunk at a time.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I would like to point out that it is illegal for any civilian to own, or operate, an assault grater capable of grating more than one hunk of cheese simultaneously. What you are referring to is an ‘assault style’ grater. Although in appearance they are identical, operationally an ‘assault style’ grater can only grate one hunk at a time.