Who Benefits From The "Iran Attacked Saudi Arabia" Narrative?

[Guest]

Very interesting article here guys. Few snippets below.   

*** Trump could not use a downed drone to start a war, that was not enough to convince the American public. Those people who applauded Trump as some kind of peacemaker for not initiating strikes on Iran for a single downed drone missed the bigger picture. War with Iran is baked into the cake; it is simply a matter of finding the right trigger.  Perhaps skyrocketing oil prices in the face of “Iranian sponsored terrorism” will be exactly what the globalists needed.

 FULL ARTICLE -  https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/who-really-benefits-iran-attacked-saudi-arabia-narrative

* * * * *

After 9/11, the concept of the “false flag attack” gained prominence in American culture, and ever since, more and more people are starting to question the official narrative whenever new crisis events occur. It is possible that this is why there has not been another attack in the US on the scale of 9/11 since 2001; not because the government is doing a better job with security (there was ample security in operation on 9/11 that for some reason was not utilized), but because it's harder for government agencies to get away fabricated disasters or scapegoating the wrong people as the culprits.

That said, sometimes governments don't need to create a false flag from scratch. Sometimes disasters not of the government's making can be turned into false flags, as long as they can pin the blame on the target they most want to attack. The elites only need to get away with one major false flag every couple of decades to push the populace into a war or a cultural crisis which can be exploited.

US involvement in the Middle East thus far has led to nothing but disaster. While total financial costs are often debated, general estimates of the combined costs of US involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Pakistan are in the area of $5 trillion (a conservative estimate in my opinion). The civilian body count from the Iraq war alone stands at around 208,000 people according to Iraqbodycount.org. US, Israeli and Saudi Arabian covert agencies involved in Libya and Syria trained, funded and armed the same militants that would eventually give rise to ISIS under a program called Timber Sycamore. And, though we continually hear about Trump's intentions to pull US troops out of the region, tens of thousands of soldiers and private contractors remain in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria to this day.

No person in their right mind could claim that US foreign policy in the Middle East has been successful. In fact, the US has lost considerable face and economic stability during these conflicts, which have been perpetuated by BOTH Republican and Democratic administrations. And now, the potential for a war in Iran is rising; a war that could devastate the US economy once and for all.

* * * * *

I would point out here that whatever a person might believe about the details surrounding 9/11, Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with it and the US invaded the nation on false pretenses.  Evidence was faked, the only WMD's the Iraqis had were those the US sold to them in the 1980's, and Saddam had no verifiable ties to Al-Qaeda.  The claims of Western intelligence agencies cannot be taken seriously after such a farce, and we must apply the same skepticism to any accusations they make against Iran.

Clearly, the goal of this narrative is to create a rationale that allows the Trump Administration to commit to a war with Iran, probably starting with limited air strikes and escalating from there.  When Trump finally gives his statements on evidence that supposedly points to Iran, I suspect he will not say much in terms of what the US reaction will be.  The public (and the markets) will be left to assume that nothing substantial will happen and that it will all fade away.  We will simply wake up one morning to discover that initial strikes against Iranian targets have been launched and that war has begun.  The only other scenario that makes sense at this stage is that another strike against Saudi Arabia will take place within the next couple of weeks and that this will be used as the "final straw".

It was only a matter of time. With the heavy influence of globalists in Trump's cabinet, every major event in the region has been somehow tied to Iran, from attacks on random oil tankers to Palestinian and Lebanese opposition to Israel and so on.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Guest
spacing

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

This paragraph was interesting.

"Currently, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has named Iran directly as being the culprit behind the strikes on Saudi Arabia (still no hard evidence available to verify this). Even though the Saudis stated right after the attack that 10 drones were used, and this corroborates what the Houthis have stated, the story is being quickly “adjusted”. Now, US officials claim that the attack was accomplished with 17 or more “cruise missiles” that originated from the direction of Iran. How the Saudis were able to confuse cruise missiles for drones remains a mystery."

[Guest]

Yep I noticed that on news. Went from 10 drones or missiles (easy to confuse), to ''definitely missiles and 17+''

Took 4 days for Saudi to hold conference and get some debris together. Pompeo turns up and all different within hours. 

And it's not much of a 'mystery'. I admittedly have no idea about oil extraction / refining etc but I knew this talk of getting back on track was shite. It went from we are all doomed to nope all good within hours. Then Saudis say by end of year all good, then this is by end of month and not financially affected at all.

This whole thing stinks. 

@Tom Kirkman  Eighteen drones and three missiles were launched against Abqaiq, the location of the world’s largest oil-processing facility, but the missiles “fell short” of the target, Al-Maliki said. A further four missiles targeted the Khurais oil field, he added.

 

This is from that Arab news article. Different again  ?

Considering the 'vast number' , it took 4 days to get some pieces together?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Guest

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

This whole thing stinks. 

Yep.

[NickW + 2,714]

Look at the uniformity of these 'strikes'

Now if those vessels were full of oil, NGL or gas and hit by a cruise missile with say a 50kg warhead why didn't the whole thing go boom? 

 

[James Regan + 1,776]

8 minutes ago, NickW said:

Look at the uniformity of these 'strikes'

Now if those vessels were full of oil, NGL or gas and hit by a cruise missile with say a 50kg warhead why didn't the whole thing go boom? 

 

These appear to be nothing more than a puncture wounds, the azimuths are identical 4 out of 4 shots and as you state no damage other than entry wound, very dodgy indeed. Maybe they were due to be changed out or were off line any for "maintenance"

[NickW + 2,714]

3 hours ago, James Regan said:

These appear to be nothing more than a puncture wounds, the azimuths are identical 4 out of 4 shots and as you state no damage other than entry wound, very dodgy indeed. Maybe they were due to be changed out or were off line any for "maintenance"

An Iran medium range cruise missile which would be needed to perform this sort of strike carries a 200kg warhead. 

Example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya-Ali_(missile)

Those holes look more like a kinetic penetrator type 

See this video of an exocet strike (150kg warhead) on a ship. About 1:05 in. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV8sI6BRF_o

 

[James Regan + 1,776]

35 minutes ago, NickW said:

An Iran medium range cruise missile which would be needed to perform this sort of strike carries a 200kg warhead. 

Example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya-Ali_(missile)

Those holes look more like a kinetic penetrator type 

See this video of an exocet strike (150kg warhead) on a ship. About 1:05 in. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV8sI6BRF_o

 

Interesting the Exorcet does its job no doubt.

https://youtu.be/XDwv7R9Ec9w I think they say the Ya-Ali has a 200 mile range in the video, if its still 200miles, how far off was the nearest KSA target?

Either way those tanks should have been minced in KSA not just an entry wound.

Edited September 19, 2019 by James Regan

[Otis11 + 551]

8 hours ago, NickW said:

Look at the uniformity of these 'strikes'

Now if those vessels were full of oil, NGL or gas and hit by a cruise missile with say a 50kg warhead why didn't the whole thing go boom? 

 

Keep in mind that these fuels have an Upper Explosive Limit (UPL) above which concentration, they cannot ignite as they are too concentrated. It's quite surprising, to see, but you can actually use propane to put out a fire. 

That said, this whole thing stinks... do we even know if this isn't photo-shopped?

[Deepwaters + 4]

U.S. conspiracy theories are so tiring.  It's like listening to people who have seen UFO's.

What stinks about this whole thing?  The fact that the number of missiles and drones wasn't established immediately.  That conflicting reports occurred MUST equal conspiracy.  Yet if you have been on this planet for any length of time you know that is normal.  Witnesses and news agencies always get things wrong.  3 witnesses to the same car accident can have 3 different versions.  Shocking.

"No person in his right mind would claim that US involvement with the middle east has been successful- "  and that is OBVIOUSLY the U.S's fault.  It is inconceivable to think that the middle east -with their "death cult" ideologies -who have been at war with everyone for the last 5000 yrs could possibly be to blame for all the trouble down there.  it must be the US's fault somehow...

While it is no secret that islamists love to war.  Their whole history is war.  Islam was spread by war.  They hate the US.  Jews.  all infidels.  and their solution?  kill.  they have been strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocent people at markets and bus stations at home and abroad for years... this is what they do.... they don't just hate others they "honor kill" their own children and their own family members.... but if there ends up being a war with Iran - the only logical explanation would be that the US FABRICATED AN EXCUSE....

Take off your tinfoil hats and leave your moms basements.  The US is the most free country in the history of the world.  You can be any race, religion or gender and live in peace, happiness and prosperity.  So why you would write an article casting aspersions on the US(they MUST be to blame)  while defending a country that has been known for terrorism since it's inception( they couldn't POSSIBLY be to blame)  is the only thing  that stinks in this article.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Deepwaters
typo

[Norm Young + 2]

Good point, there's always lots of confusion after a violent event.  And the stories change as things get sorted out.

But then there's the small matter of the five trillion dollars spent on these places, and for somebody else's agenda.   That money ended up in somebody's pocket, and someone else's needs got served.  That's a lot of incentive.   And it's five trillion dollars that could have been spent domestically where it is really needed. 

Those that talk about tin foil hats, need to doff theirs and pull the rabbit out that explains where the money went.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Norm Young
5 vs five

[Deepwaters + 4]

LoL - thanks for the comment. I doffed my tinfoil hat a long time ago. 

   The 5 trillion dollar estimate/rabbit  is not the cost of oil infrastructure in Iran.  The 5 trillion you are referring to is the cost of wars in the entire middle east.  Is that a deliberate, carefully crafted aspersion or just reckless banter when you say "for somebody else's agenda".  What agenda, exactly are you referring to?  world peace?  You make it sound like 2 guys met  in a dark alley somewhere in Iran and a suitcase with 5trillion dollars was handed off.  and now you want to know where that money is who  the guys in the dark alley were (it must be a conspiracy). But the 5trillion is cumulative and broadly dispersed over many countries and many years.  It is the cost of weapons, embassies, soldiers and diplomats.  It is the cost of wars, AND HOSPITALS and SCHOOLS and INFRASTRUCTURE.  The US has done many good things in the middle east and they actually have an interesting history that stretches back to the Barbary Wars. And yes, the US and Britain are the governing authorities over middle eastern oil.... BUT the entire world benefits from stable oil supply and relatively stable oil prices because of that.   Its not like the US is stealing middle east oil!  They get paid really well for the oil they produce.  Canada has lots of oil but the US doesn't have a military presence in Canada... maybe that's because Canada isn't known for it's terrorists.  Maybe it's because Canada isn't  known for chemical weapons, crimes against humanity, a threat to world peace.  Which brings me back to the original point.  Why conspiracy dorks always look at everything backward?  why they are so desperate to call good evil and evil good?  The US is a good country.  They get along with most countries and have trade relations with the entire world. AND the entire world benefits from the US.  The West and capitalism has raised the standard of living for the entire world and the west gives more money away than anyone else on this planet.  The middle east, on the other hand,  is the jack-ass of the human family.  They aren't known for their kindness,  their humanitarian aid,  or a peaceful disposition.  They are trouble makers from before the US even existed. If the middle east disappeared tomorrow off the face of the earth the whole world would breath a sigh of relief ..... I shudder to think what would happen if the US disappeared tomorrow.  

    From the little I understand about Iran- the country that has the most to lose is CHINA and the number Forbes reported was a $400Billion  stake - not the US.   

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

14 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

This paragraph was interesting.

. How the Saudis were able to confuse cruise missiles for drones remains a mystery."

A cruise missile IS A DRONE!!! 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Deepwaters said:

So why you would write an article casting aspersions on the US(they MUST be to blame)  while defending a country that has been known for terrorism since it's inception( they couldn't POSSIBLY be to blame)  is the only thing  that stinks in this article.

So you don't agree. Fine. The whole scenario makes perfect sense to you. Ok.

I thought it was quite an interesting article. I was wrong and must remove my tin foil hat.

It would be nice if people read thread titles rather than go off on their rants once in a while. It's a PRO USA one though so it makes a change atleast. 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Guest

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

4 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

So you don't agree. Fine. The whole scenario makes perfect sense to you. Ok.

I thought it was quite an interesting article. I was wrong and must remove my tin foil hat.

Personally I could see either scenario being true.  Iran or inside job.  Both countries are politically unstable at the moment and both are looking for an external solution to internal problems.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Iran or inside job

Roswell has something to do with it. And Bigfoot.

 

 

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

7 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Roswell has something to do with it. And Bigfoot.

The Tooth Fairy.  Sharp teeth, punches holes and a Chinese dragon maybe?

[NickW + 2,714]

5 hours ago, Deepwaters said:

U.S. conspiracy theories are so tiring.  It's like listening to people who have seen UFO's.

What stinks about this whole thing?  The fact that the number of missiles and drones wasn't established immediately.  That conflicting reports occurred MUST equal conspiracy.  Yet if you have been on this planet for any length of time you know that is normal.  Witnesses and news agencies always get things wrong.  3 witnesses to the same car accident can have 3 different versions.  Shocking.

"No person in his right mind would claim that US involvement with the middle east has been successful- "  and that is OBVIOUSLY the U.S's fault.  It is inconceivable to think that the middle east -with their "death cult" ideologies -who have been at war with everyone for the last 5000 yrs could possibly be to blame for all the trouble down there.  it must be the US's fault somehow...

While it is no secret that islamists love to war.  Their whole history is war.  Islam was spread by war.  They hate the US.  Jews.  all infidels.  and their solution?  kill.  they have been strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocent people at markets and bus stations at home and abroad for years... this is what they do.... they don't just hate others they "honor kill" their own children and their own family members.... but if there ends up being a war with Iran - the only logical explanation would be that the US FABRICATED AN EXCUSE....

Take off your tinfoil hats and leave your moms basements.  The US is the most free country in the history of the world.  You can be any race, religion or gender and live in peace, happiness and prosperity.  So why you would write an article casting aspersions on the US(they MUST be to blame)  while defending a country that has been known for terrorism since it's inception( they couldn't POSSIBLY be to blame)  is the only thing  that stinks in this article.

Its more likely this is a clumsy Saudi attempt to create a false flag and draw the USA into a conflict with Iran which would also suit Israel. 

[NickW + 2,714]

5 hours ago, Otis11 said:

Keep in mind that these fuels have an Upper Explosive Limit (UPL) above which concentration, they cannot ignite as they are too concentrated. It's quite surprising, to see, but you can actually use propane to put out a fire. 

That said, this whole thing stinks... do we even know if this isn't photo-shopped?

100 Kg of high explosive is going to blow those structures apart full stop and detonate any fuels inside unless its HFO. 

Those holes look like kenetic penetrator damage from a high calibre round. 

I wouldn't  be surprised if KSA rolled up in an M1 tank and fired one of those through each vessel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M829#M829A3

 

 

[4cryingoutloud + 21]

4 hours ago, NickW said:

100 Kg of high explosive is going to blow those structures apart full stop and detonate any fuels inside unless its HFO. 

Those holes look like kenetic penetrator damage from a high calibre round. 

I wouldn't  be surprised if KSA rolled up in an M1 tank and fired one of those through each vessel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M829#M829A3

 

 

exactly. 

 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

22 hours ago, DayTrader said:

 

 I admittedly have no idea about oil extraction / refining etc but I knew this talk of getting back on track was shite. 

 

Magic oil unicorns drink the oil and then defecate to produce useful oil products. Saudi Arabia is the leading breeder and thus producer of magic oil unicorns. 

Lol, the point is that refining equipment is probably difficult to fix. I wonder exactly what type of infrastructure was hit the worst. Distillation towers? Storage units? Pipes from fields? 

Edited September 20, 2019 by KeyboardWarrior

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

7 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

The Tooth Fairy.  Sharp teeth, punches holes and a Chinese dragon maybe?

Don't forget:

"Big Oil"

"Big Pharma"

"Big Tobacco"

"Capitalist Oligarchy"

"Military Industrial Complex"

"Big Soap" (yes I've actually heard this)

As you can imagine, I've collected a list of ridiculous things I hear from people who are too lazy to make a decent living, so they just complain about successful capitalists. 

[EDIT] Oh yes, and also "American Imperialism Hierarchy" or whatever the  #$%@

Edited September 20, 2019 by KeyboardWarrior

[Otis11 + 551]

20 hours ago, Deepwaters said:

U.S. conspiracy theories are so tiring.  It's like listening to people who have seen UFO's.

What stinks about this whole thing?  The fact that the number of missiles and drones wasn't established immediately.  That conflicting reports occurred MUST equal conspiracy.  Yet if you have been on this planet for any length of time you know that is normal.  Witnesses and news agencies always get things wrong.  3 witnesses to the same car accident can have 3 different versions.  Shocking.

"No person in his right mind would claim that US involvement with the middle east has been successful- "  and that is OBVIOUSLY the U.S's fault.  It is inconceivable to think that the middle east -with their "death cult" ideologies -who have been at war with everyone for the last 5000 yrs could possibly be to blame for all the trouble down there.  it must be the US's fault somehow...

While it is no secret that islamists love to war.  Their whole history is war.  Islam was spread by war.  They hate the US.  Jews.  all infidels.  and their solution?  kill.  they have been strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocent people at markets and bus stations at home and abroad for years... this is what they do.... they don't just hate others they "honor kill" their own children and their own family members.... but if there ends up being a war with Iran - the only logical explanation would be that the US FABRICATED AN EXCUSE....

Take off your tinfoil hats and leave your moms basements.  The US is the most free country in the history of the world.  You can be any race, religion or gender and live in peace, happiness and prosperity.  So why you would write an article casting aspersions on the US(they MUST be to blame)  while defending a country that has been known for terrorism since it's inception( they couldn't POSSIBLY be to blame)  is the only thing  that stinks in this article.

I'm not trying to blame the US - I'd actually agree with you that, overall, the US is an overwhelming source of good. That said, we do - from time to time - do some stupid things (often because people have special agenda's, other times because there are a few 'rouge' elements within the government, and yet other times simply because some leaders make bad decisions). I think this particular situation is being handled well - wait and get more information, speak carefully (though some are butchering that one), and act once we have a fully knowledge of the situation, plan to implement, and have played out some of the consequence scenarios.

With all that, I don't think this was the US (small chance it was a rouge element trying to force Trump into a war, but not terribly likely in my opinion). The reason I think it stinks isn't because of the changing story line - while that doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either, I understand chaotic situations are chaotic. The thing that gets me is that Iran doesn't seem to benefit from this. The only reason I can see them doing it is 1)They thought it would never be traced back to them (very bad assumption - they're smarter than that) or 2) They are completely desperate and trying to lash out in an attempt that something works (I honestly don't think the US Tariffs are THAT effective right now. Causing pain, yes, but the EU has been trying to work with them, as have China and Russia - this would undercut that.)

The leaders of Iran might be crazy - you could argue evil even - but they're not stupid. And if you assume they are, the Iranian people aren't, surely they can consult someone who can see more than 3 feet in front of their nose. It just doesn't make sense.

And I'm not trying to feed conspiracy theories - just trying to analyse the situation independently. The 'facts' to add up yet - but we've not been given many facts.

This, in my mind anyway, is also supported by the carefully chosen wording Trump has used in his statements on the issue. If it were cut and dry, the US would know. We have more radars, satellites, and drones focused on the middle east than anyone else has anywhere in the world - combined.

Just my 2 cents.

14 hours ago, NickW said:

100 Kg of high explosive is going to blow those structures apart full stop and detonate any fuels inside unless its HFO. 

Those holes look like kenetic penetrator damage from a high calibre round. 

I wouldn't  be surprised if KSA rolled up in an M1 tank and fired one of those through each vessel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M829#M829A3

 

 

So, I'm no expert on explosives - 100 Kg of high explosives might leave a crater, just a dent, or exactly what we see for all I know. The point I was making was that it very well might not detonate the fuels inside. I've actually watch fires be extinguished by adding fuel. It's mind boggling, but it works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammability_limit#Upper_flammability_limit

How that plays into the rest of this, I'll defer 

[Alfredo + 3]

If we look for the cause in who is the biggest beneficiary, Saudi Arabia is in first place.

The United States has been cautious, they cannot openly say that the weapons they sell and their technology are unable to stop a low-tech aggression.

Everyone knows that if there is an aggression against Saudi Arabia, it will come from Iran, so defensive weapons must be placed to cancel that aggression.

In Saudi Arabia there is discontent, an internal revolt may be the cause of the aggression. Internal terrorism, is another point to analyze.

Speculation is good for everyone to support their theory.

A note to our friend, Islam has not been at war attacking countries for the past 5,000 years, there is a character, Genghis Khan, who in the thirteenth century caused shreds in the Middle East and Islam.

[Troll McClure 0]

                                                                Fellow little retail fish

Acknowledge one thing - Trump's America First doctrine. Even though he and everyone else knows that Iran is not responsible directly, it makes sense in his mind to keep it going for you. Some people did something. Some people need to sell WTI above $55 or they are in red. To maintain pressure on Iran to keep them out of business you just don't waste an event allowing you to be creative. I don't hear Russia crying for their competition much either. Isn't it disgusting? They keep Venezuela out of business together for years. It's a pool of sharks. There's no good guys.

Trump may actually not want to start bombing them but his willingness to sanction them into war and react is the same thing if you think about it. 

It's wise to hedge over the weekends and always have a buystop ready

Nick